Flo rankings
- Thread starter Locolion
- Start date
Flo Rankings are an annual joke. This is due to their obstinate refusal to rank freshmen accurately. They constantly maintained they rank based off track record. In reality, they ignorantly ignore other factors including freestyle results, other tournament results and pedigree. As a result, their rankings are useless.
That said, they are not important anyway. The talent of the PSU youngsters will inevitably see them rise to the top as the year unfolds.
That said, they are not important anyway. The talent of the PSU youngsters will inevitably see them rise to the top as the year unfolds.
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I like flo's rankings. Perennial top 30 program, Penn State, annually per Flo looks like an athletic after thought program, and then the wrestling starts. By year's end Penn State somehow, per Flo, miraculously stumbles their way to another championship.
The annual handwringing over preseason rankings is laughable. They are basically the same as the previous season's end of year rankings save for a few graduations and weight changes. Any outlet that ranks freshmen is a joke, as they open themselves up to clear subjective biases. Any outlet that uses freestyle is also foolish, and REALLY foolish if you add Greco in as well, especially when the difference is freestyle based (exposure, head pinch, leg lace, gut wrench, etc).
It is also laughable because they change CONSTANTLY throughout the year and take into account every dual and tournament. Everyone works themselves into a tizzy as though these rankings are set in stone and also predictions. Rankings, seeds, and predictions are three separate things, both for the good of the outlet doing them and for the entertainment of us as fans. I'm glad the folks at Flo, Open Mat, InterMat, et al can get you guys so worked up though, it's very entertaining.
It is also laughable because they change CONSTANTLY throughout the year and take into account every dual and tournament. Everyone works themselves into a tizzy as though these rankings are set in stone and also predictions. Rankings, seeds, and predictions are three separate things, both for the good of the outlet doing them and for the entertainment of us as fans. I'm glad the folks at Flo, Open Mat, InterMat, et al can get you guys so worked up though, it's very entertaining.
They have been consistent with how they do their rankings throughout the years.....so I have no problem with it. They always state that true freshman don't start out in the rankings but that some will quickly rise as they compete at the college level. They are not the only site that does this. The Open Mat doesn't have Echimendia in their top 33. The results will come and the rankings will change accordingly
Yes (2) people here commented on the rankings being out of whack. Man that is a lot of "handwringing" - LOL!
When the NCAA uses Flo to seed the dance, then maybe I will give a shit how they rank. Until then i could care less.
Flo blows. we all know that. and so do preseason college rankings which is why my crystal ball is way more accurate.
Brooks at 5 and Iowa State at 3rd is the funniest shit.
Brooks at 5 and Iowa State at 3rd is the funniest shit.
Just asking,but is “crystal ball“ a metaphor for your cranium?
More importantly, Willie must not have gotten his slush fund check as he has PSU a full 18 points behind Iowa for the team race. Of course, he mentions that bonus points could impact that 😉
Great NCAA preview you put up on your Rokfin MS site.
Rokfin subscribers - @smalls103 has a 100 minute plus NCAA preview. Very much worth a listen
Definitley agree with you. I would be pretty shocked if Kerkvliet finished any worse than 3rd at NCAAs.
As others have mentioned, Flo's NCAA rankings have always only considered folkstyle matches and are results-based and not predictions. Makes for some odd-looking rankings early in the year. This year may end up being odder than ever.
Predictions are cool too. Might have to bring back the Brackastrology articles we did for the 2019 season.
Thanks for reading!
It's not flo that has the problem it's the people that misinterpret the word ranking with the word prediction. If you include freestyle results, high school results, or the eye test then you open up a whole new can of worms. So they dont include them and instead let the results of the season factor in. It should make sense that a freshman needs to earn their ranking vs being gifted, and as other people have said rankings are meaningless other than giving us an idea of where wrestlers stand. The only thing I disagree with flo is the medical forfeit. (Aka RBY over Desanto) If you take a L it should hurt the ranking as opposed to acting as if it didnt happen.
Webster Definition of Ranking: position, order, or standing within a group .
There is no confusion about rankings, predictions, seedings. If you are only going to rank by results, then you might as well have standings. Rankings should be you think is better, in order. As noted above in the definition. Willie is 1000% correct. When making a ranking one should utilize ALL the information at hand to make as good a possible estimate as to the standing of the wrestlers in comparison to each other. That includes high school record, pedigree, tournaments of all kinds, freestyle, strength, speed, agility, endurance and on and on. To rank Kerkvliet 12th is beyond absurd. Anyone who knows an iota about wrestling knows there are not 11 better heavyweight wrestlers than him going into this year. True rankings are inherently subjective, there is no reasonable way to get around that.
Now, having said all that, they don't matter one little bit. The season will play out and guys will perform or they won't. However, that fact does not negate the truth that Flo "rankings" are absolute horseshit.
There is no confusion about rankings, predictions, seedings. If you are only going to rank by results, then you might as well have standings. Rankings should be you think is better, in order. As noted above in the definition. Willie is 1000% correct. When making a ranking one should utilize ALL the information at hand to make as good a possible estimate as to the standing of the wrestlers in comparison to each other. That includes high school record, pedigree, tournaments of all kinds, freestyle, strength, speed, agility, endurance and on and on. To rank Kerkvliet 12th is beyond absurd. Anyone who knows an iota about wrestling knows there are not 11 better heavyweight wrestlers than him going into this year. True rankings are inherently subjective, there is no reasonable way to get around that.
Now, having said all that, they don't matter one little bit. The season will play out and guys will perform or they won't. However, that fact does not negate the truth that Flo "rankings" are absolute horseshit.
In ncaa football and basketball pre season rankings are based on what the "experts" think will be the best teams. Not sure why wrestling doesn't adapt. If Kentucky basketball starts 5 stud freshman, they'd be ranked top 5 possibly 1 depending on the recruits. Doesn't matter they have they never played in college.
Willies crystal ball for the win. Its the only thing that has a semblance of reality
Willies crystal ball for the win. Its the only thing that has a semblance of reality
Haha I did not know this but yes she is definitely qualifies as a lilf also then lol.
Acronym for "lukiolainen I'd like to f@@@Used in Finnish upper additional schools do describe a hot female pupil."Lukiolainen" means 6th previous in Finnish. by MarilynnReport definition
Leg I'd Like to shag by JohnieReport definition
Lecturer i'd like to F***Commonly employed by university pupils who've dropped their particular requirements but a fetish for tweed coats. Really should not be confused with the Teacher antonym. by Lynwood CowanReport definition
lesbian let me shag by Brandi CoupeReport definition
Attorney let me f**k. by OrvalReport definition
Lemon id like to f@@@ by Clemmie CabanaReport definition
linguini i would ike to F@@@
sooo many options, particularly if you are Finnish....
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Preseason ranking are nothing more than putting something out there for these media outlets to have they’re product discussed / relevant. Only problem I have with it is they base wins over ranked guys from beginning to move them around in rankings. What till at least midway thru season before you give a kid a ranking make. But then again in this day and age common sense isn’t used in anything anymore.
Great work, now compare Flo’s preaseason rankings compared to how they finished at Nats and get back to us, CAPEESH?
I feel like I'm in the twilight zone...or groundhog day.lol
Exactly. So the question is, who in their right mind would do a ranking that isn't remotely legitimate or accurate?
Cael's new guys have a history of ... ahem looking pretty damn good.
Whoa, I was wondering whether there would be some new Mat Scout rankings I might be able to include in my extremely occasional BSD column, Phat Mat Stats. Just found the Crystal Ball link (https://www.rokfin.com/ranking/1113/Crystal-Ball-Rankings), and I love that you've leaned into calling them Predictions! Should make for a much more interesting column now, averaging 3 human resume lists (TOM, Intermat, Flo) with their attenuated conditions (no TRFR, no Freestyle/eyeball tests), 1 Algo list (WrestleStat) and 1 Prediction list.
I’m struggling to understand how Massa, never higher than 3rd at 165, is ranked #2 at 174.
While AB, seeded #3 at NCAAs last year, B1G champ, is ranked #5.
While AB, seeded #3 at NCAAs last year, B1G champ, is ranked #5.
Massa should be ranked higher than Brooks, simply based upon the strength of 174 vs. 184.
Other than Kemerer who should be ranked higher than Massa? That weight is so thin, it will disappear if it turns sideways.
I agree that Brooks is ranked too low -- but Massa is not a good justification for that. 184 is a far tougher weight. Amine and Bolen are more accomplished in college wrestling. Dean would be too, if Cornell were wrestling. And Hidlay also has a better college resume, with better wins and more of them.
I want to offer the US senior championship as a possible rationalization, but that would be an unaccounted for freestyle result. You know, how Nick obliterating Eierman in freestyle is unimportant in 141 rankings.
I get that FS results don't mean much to Folk rankings, and in most cases don't mean much at all, but in the case of Eierman and Nick Lee, I'd have guessed before that match that Eierman has a distinct FS advantage over Nick, and that Nick is better in Folk than he is in FS. And yet Nick beat him in that match by consistently getting to his legs and converting. Eierman has a Folk win over Nick but Nick has progressed more than Eierman has since March 2018.
My point isn't about rankings, I don't really care about them until the conference tourneys roll around, but that their FS match probably is a decent indicator of where they stand in relation to each other in Folk.
