Can Facundo realistically make 165 next year? Where do you guys see him fitting in the lineup? He seems to be a 174, 184 given his length, but we have Starocci & Brooks, and this extra Covid year means they’ll have 3&4 more years to compete. Maybe the plan is to greyshirt. Any body have intel?
Facundo
- Thread starter eet5017
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It’s the NCAAs. If we fans now get distracted by next year, the consequences may be beyond our imagination.
If I was Facundo watching Joe Lee in the NCAA, I would be thinking.."Hmm...interesting..."
But I am not him, so there's that.
Joe Lee is hard to figure. Nick is one of the most technical wrestlers in the country, Joe just the opposite. He must be a hard headed kid, because I doubt Casey and Cael are coaching him to wrestle this way.
I still have high hopes for Joe, he has the talent to be an AA. Hopefully after his fail this week he will see that his way isn't working and allow the coaches to smooth off the rough edges.
Maybe Facundo does. And maybe he arrives and doesn't achieve his dreams. Thats kinda happened to lots of other big names, some with 4 PIAA championships.
JLee obviously struggled with things he has not faced before, and certainly not last year. He's making mat choices that look hurried and overreaching.....like he's trying to solve all the looseness and somewhat forgotten fundamentals all in one move. He needs a restart and a regular preseason.
But for the love affair with the guy who might be next in line, there are some names to remember that kids like Lee can remind himself who he is.
Bryan Pearsall and what....3 wins?
Brody Teske....did he look like the Brody Teske that wore Blue and White?
Kerry McCoy.
Q had a serious internal wrestling match that had this board nearly apoplectic
We could even pull out names from other teams. The list is inexhaustible.
JLee obviously struggled with things he has not faced before, and certainly not last year. He's making mat choices that look hurried and overreaching.....like he's trying to solve all the looseness and somewhat forgotten fundamentals all in one move. He needs a restart and a regular preseason.
But for the love affair with the guy who might be next in line, there are some names to remember that kids like Lee can remind himself who he is.
Bryan Pearsall and what....3 wins?
Brody Teske....did he look like the Brody Teske that wore Blue and White?
Kerry McCoy.
Q had a serious internal wrestling match that had this board nearly apoplectic
We could even pull out names from other teams. The list is inexhaustible.
Joe struggles to get off bottom! Fix this and the rest will follow imo. I'm guessing this will be addressed daily.
"And maybe he arrives and doesn't achieve his dreams. Thats kinda happened to lots of other big names".......
Really "Lots"? Every program has them, but Cael is undoubtedly the best groomer of talent out there. IMO if a kid comes in and doesn't develop in this program, it's more on him that anything else. Until the day he left Cael said Jimmy had all the tools and training to win a NC, he just needed to believe in himself and let it fly.
In all fairness though ... "lots"? I think you must be referring to OSU or tOSU!
PS - I am all in on Facundo. He is going to be one of those that might exceed his dreams.
Equally important is his propensity to struggle on to his back, from all three positions. I think they need to fix that first.
What has me perplexed to be honest is he showed so much growth and potential last year. This year is a small sample but he really seems to have regressed. I don't know if we have seen much of that out of this room.
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Next year is next year, however Lee's performance this week and at the BIG 10 will not go unnoticed by the coaching staff.
Of course. The coaching staff will try to work with Joe even harder on it in the off season and into the next season. So it will be up the Joe to take advantage of that.
Joe will learn and return better than ever but will that be enough to hold off the next group of studs coming in? Not sure. The room is so competitive. Its eat or be eaten!
I think Joe also needs to add significant strength.
If Berge's injury is too serious, any chance Lee can get to 157?
If Berge's injury is too serious, any chance Lee can get to 157?
I was thinking the same thing. I love Brady but his body is breaking down and I hope that isn't a knee reconstruction we just witnessed. I think Joe has a great long body type for 157 (like Jason Nolf) if he can make the cut without killing himself? We need someon good to fill in for Brady if this injury is really serious?
Joe Lee has been in the Penn State room for what 3 years now? If I remember correctly he trained here his senior year of high school, then gray shirted and redshirted, or something to that effect. I think with that much time around the program, you’re probably looking at close to a finished product. I hope he can turn things around because he appears to be a really good kid, but I’m not sure how much can be fixed. If I were the staff I would be looking for a replacement there. If you want to win a Team title, you need points at more weights.
We all like Joe and root for him. We know he is a harder worker. However, Big 10s and NCAAS definitely showed Joe's weaknesses. I would assume the coaches will not settle for performances like this for the next 4 years, like they didn't at 149 or 125. They will figure something out, which could include recruitment/transfer or another option within.
I'm certainly not ready to give up on Joe yet. Sure he's been in the room, and that's a great room. It's still not a replacement for match time. Pressure situations, scrambles, and the rest can take the better part of a season to adjust to at this level.
We've seen the offensive capability, it's there. If he cleans up his positioning and shows a little patience, he'll be fine.
Then there's our expectations. Not every guy is going to be a finalist.
We've seen the offensive capability, it's there. If he cleans up his positioning and shows a little patience, he'll be fine.
Then there's our expectations. Not every guy is going to be a finalist.
Exactly! Practice is not the same as the conference and national tournament. He had a shortened freshman season and made the tournament. I don’t know if he is “the guy” or not, but to write him off after a two month season is ridiculous. I remember RBY and Nick making some puzzling decisions as freshmen.
Seems like he has the frame to handle it...he did not look small at 149
Both the guys you just mentioned were AA’s as true Freshman.
By rule he can't be in the Penn State room until he is attending school full time. He was in the NLWC room but not the PSU room
I won't give up on him either but my gosh, basic stuff like hand control when standing up seems lost on him. I cannot understand how that continues to happen.
He flails away like a first year wrestler.
I think Brady has a very lengthy rehab ahead, who knows if he can even wrestle next year (remember how long Shak was out). Then it's a period of working back in it and adjusting physically and mentally.
This is pure speculation but I wouldn't rule out him retiring after this but seeing how he didn't get introduced on Senior Day, he definitely was planning to come back originally.
This is pure speculation but I wouldn't rule out him retiring after this but seeing how he didn't get introduced on Senior Day, he definitely was planning to come back originally.
And 133, RBY's freshman year, had about 16 AA caliber wrestlers trying to scratch out one of the 8 AAs available.
That is my point. They were Freshmen All-Americans after a complete season (4.5 months) of conditioning and learning. This year, the first college dual was January 30. That is less than a two month season. How were Nick and RBY six weeks into their freshman season? I am not ready to write off anyone after this season.
We don't need a 165. We have four including Joe. We will be better than fine.
Berge could conceivably get a medical redshirt for 2020 and have 3 more years of eligibility. 7 years seems like a whole lot considering what he’s battled through already
Nick's first varsity match was in January of his freshman year. He had spent a year training with NLWC.
Joe wrestled his first varsity match in January in his RS freshman year, and he too spent a year training with the NLWC.
There is nothing in Joe's wrestling that screams "soon to be like Nick". That doesn't mean something just needs to click and that light switch is right around the corner, but as of right now the length of the hallway to that corner appears lengthy.
Relax people! No way I'm counting out Joe Lee yet. Don't know what issues were at play this year. Injury, loss of confidence? Unknown and we may never know. Joe has to have faith in the system and coaches. Get well physically and mentally. Train hard and last but not least, pay attention to Nick and how he carries himself on and off the mat, humility is one of his greatest strengths. Fine tune a few things here and there and he will be fine, after all he did beat one of this years finalists, Jake Wentzel, at last years Southern Scuffle.
I don’t expect him to be Nick, or RBY. I expect he will be a better version of himself after a complete season than he was this season. Cael and the other coaches will decide if his improvement earns him a starting spot next season. I just don’t want to call for his replacement at this point.
I have a hard time believing joe won't improve greatly year to year. To think otherwise would mean that Caels ability to coach is limited which none of us believe. The other option is that Joe was recruited because of nick and is along for the ride. Again I don't think Cael would do that Joe is very talented he's just making big mistakes. And more importantly he's making mistakes that can be corrected. He has an offensive mind set we all like that he will get better defensively just like beard will. Have some faith in the process and enjoy watching him grow. Most penn state wrestlers start out like this not all of them but man we are spoiled when we expect every weight to be a stud who AA s. That's not realistic. Mark my words joe will improve next year and make big moves that we all like to see in the right direction
Just an aside. I'm wondering if Nick being in the line up and doing so well hasn't added some pressure on joe to do things he's not ready to do like big moves because he wants to add up to bigger brother
Does Joe Lee get any scholarship money? If he is just a walk one was he really recruited
I have no idea how Joe Lee will turn out as a wrestler. But if he does not improve, that is not a knock on Cael's coaching ability. The simple fact is, no matter how good a coach you are, not everyone of your athletes are going to turn out. It happens.
He also pinned Hartman, a semifinalist this year, at a NLWC Event in 21 seconds. Crunched him up with a Bow and Arrow. He hurt his knee in a Big Ten dual and after that match never seemed right.
