Last year's version of Joe Lee? Facundo easily.
The redshirting version of Joe Lee? It would be close.
Facundo
- Thread starter eet5017
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The redshirting version of Joe Lee? It would be close.
The visual of Cael’s frustration with Joe at NCAA’s was, to me, very revealing. I realize that there are degrees of frustration, to be sure, but this looked like a coach who had run out of patience.
I truthfully did not catch that match but I have heard Cael got as animated as anyone has ever seen him at one of his wrestlers. For me, for Cael to get to that level, it has to be some kind of "are you even listening to me?" level thing. Like Cael has explained something to Joe multiple times and he still isn't following instructions and making the same mistake over and over again.
That perfectly explains what I was trying to say. He needs to gain/regain the confidence of the Staff.
The kid is still a freshman next year ... regardless of how many years out of HS he is, he still has plenty of time in a PSU singlet (unless he chooses to transfer) The wrestlers who choose to stay in freestyle for years continuously improve well into their 20s (think Nate Jackson), it's not like Joe has hit his ceiling already. Maybe the lightbulb turns on for Joe later in his career. The fact is, he doesn't HAVE to turn it around next year, he won't start if he doesn't but it's not like Cael would cut him from the team. Maybe he gets his spot back later in his career if not next year if he stays patient. We don't have a clear solution at 165 going forward (I doubt Facundo is that his entire career) so we'll likely be counting on Joe again sometime later even if it's not next year.
And, I am willing to believe if we see the Joe who red-shirted, we might have much to enjoy.
I might as well copy and paste this because I posted it so many times but the Joe who was redshirting left me so optimistic. His problems were typical freshman problems (getting off bottom, walking into an opponents wheelhouse, defending your legs) When he gets in a zone, he can start bullying some VERY good opponents. (Flynn, Hartman, Wentzel) Against overmatched opponents, he could effortlessly tech fall them in a period like the Air Force kid and he beat Lehigh's backup 31-16.
Even in his 2 losses to Bullard and Wittlake, he scored two quick takedowns on both. He didn't register an escape against either but Bullard's 3 takedowns were all off Joe's shots, Joe could have stalled his way to a win there. He looked sluggish coming off of the COVID layoff and just never got back into the swing of things (obviously injury didn't help either)
Before this season started, I would have literally put money on Joe being an All American.
I don't think so. He is to reckless. The great ones can be reckless and get out of trouble. The less than great ones don't have that same ability. He wants to wrestle for the big move or counter and puts himself in bad position way too much.
I hope the optimists are right about Joe. As great as the NCAA finals night was, our guys won 4 championships averaging 3.5 points and 1.25 takedowns per match. i understand that the opponents in those matches were outstanding defensive wrestlers, but still the scores were not in the tradition of the high-scoring Taylor, Ruth, Retherford, Nolf and Nickal. As our freshmen continue to get better it would be great to see increasing dominance and scoring in the PSU tradition. Joe's style could develop into lots of bonus point wins.
Man, those are some lofty expectations to live up to...generational wrestlers. I am of the opinion that winning a national championship and upsetting #1 seeds in the process is in fact good enough regardless of the score... three of our four champions did this.
The guys they beat basically AA’d every single year of their college careers, IIRC.
Gotta win championships with 4 champs! That’s what really bugged Cael. They lost due to lack of bonus, Berge’s injury, and disappointing performances from JLee and yes Beard who had a pretty nice draw to go deeper. Holes at 125, now, and 149-165 are apparent and have to be addressed to beat Iowa. Howard’s injury stings big time. NLee and BB at 141-149 should be outstanding. As noted so many times, 157-165 are the issues. A Dellavecchia and Griffith coup would be the remedy at 157-65. Dean at 197 makes sense over Beard.
Yeah, it seems to me Joe wants to be another Nolf. Jason's style would be considered a bit reckless too, except he had the knack of turning trouble into opportunity. Joe would be better served to try being another Nick Lee.
I'm pretty certain Cael and Casey are not coaching him to wrestle the way he does ... thus the frustration.
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Lofty expectations are good! I still remember the time I replied to an invitation, “What? You can’t juggle? No, I will not go on a date with you, Charlize Theron!”
Regardless of the paranoid dark side(Iowa) folks say these kids were just getting varsity matches in a season with very few matches. Lets see what the coaches do in a full season to correct things. PSU will not fill ever weight with bonus scoring 3-4x champs, lets get real people. Its not like they are varsity kids in there 4-5th yr like the dark side has
So not being able to handle 3 balls was the deal breaker for you?😜Lofty expectations are good! I still remember the time I replied to an invitation, “What? You can’t juggle? No, I will not go on a date with you, Charlize Theron!”
The development of Facundo will come, but I'm also interested in the development of Joe Lee...he has a great deal of potential. I don't believe a wrestler with great potential, not turning into an all American is necessarily a failure. Jimmy Gulibon actually had a 5th place finish I believe, and unlike others I don't consider him a failure. He ended up an all American and a great teammate on numerous championship teams. If Lee had the same career I would consider it the same.
You're right about Jimmy G and if I remember right he had a returning National Champ on his back for most of a period but couldn't get the ref to call a fall! Heil to the victor.🙄
