Did Paul Finebaum forget that Penn State was levied with program crippling

[Sooner Lion]

sanctions going into 2012? Four years later we won a Big Ten title.

https://247sports.com/college/penn-...9ZuWXSrh1y0W0WSd4MnmIey89nA5L2WG67pYCXyTm1pJg

 

[anon_is9z1n0h3zblb]

Paul Finebaum has his head so far up Nick Saban's ass that when Paul sneezes Nick gets a cramp. He should be ignored by everyone.

 

[Obliviax]

 

[Wallace Breen]

sanctions going into 2012? Four years later we won a Big Ten title.

https://247sports.com/college/penn-...9ZuWXSrh1y0W0WSd4MnmIey89nA5L2WG67pYCXyTm1pJg

Contrary to popular belief, the sanctions weren't all that crippling and are frequently used to excuse poor performance. I'll get attacked for saying it and quite frankly, I don't care but they had minimal impact on the team's performance other than the initial wave of transfers which cost us a few games in 12 and 13 and really nothing beyond that. What did cost us was a rookie DC in 2013 and general lack of competence across the board with the offensive staff in 2014 and 2015.

Post 2015, we have had some curious decisions regarding staff and and player personnel, most notably Bob Shoop leaving and appointing Ricky Rahne as OC following JoeMo.

 

[AWS1022]

Contrary to popular belief, the sanctions weren't all that crippling and are frequently used to excuse poor performance. I'll get attacked for saying it and quite frankly, I don't care but they had minimal impact on the team's performance other than the initial wave of transfers which cost us a few games in 12 and 13 and really nothing beyond that. What did cost us was a rookie DC in 2013 and general lack of competence across the board with the offensive staff in 2014 and 2015.

Post 2015, we have had some curious decisions regarding staff and and player personnel, most notably Bob Shoop leaving and appointing Ricky Rahne as OC following JoeMo.

Beyond stupid.

 

[Obliviax]

Contrary to popular belief, the sanctions weren't all that crippling and are frequently used to excuse poor performance. I'll get attacked for saying it and quite frankly, I don't care but they had minimal impact on the team's performance other than the initial wave of transfers which cost us a few games in 12 and 13 and really nothing beyond that. What did cost us was a rookie DC in 2013 and general lack of competence across the board with the offensive staff in 2014 and 2015.

Post 2015, we have had some curious decisions regarding staff and and player personnel, most notably Bob Shoop leaving and appointing Ricky Rahne as OC following JoeMo.

I don't have any idea how you can say that. You nor I have any idea what those teams would have been like had they had the full complement. As it stands, PSU had one of the worst offensive lines in Power Five football. We have up a sack against a TWO MAN RUSH against Temple.

I would suggest that the actions weren't as damaging to PSU as most programs because a) we had some very good coaches and 2) kids wanted to play for our fans; 105,000 on a white out night. While we did well, we were fortunate we didn't have more injuries and that the ones we did put on campus panned out (for the most part).

 

[Madsol]

Contrary to popular belief, the sanctions weren't all that crippling and are frequently used to excuse poor performance. I'll get attacked for saying it and quite frankly, I don't care but they had minimal impact on the team's performance other than the initial wave of transfers which cost us a few games in 12 and 13 and really nothing beyond that. What did cost us was a rookie DC in 2013 and general lack of competence across the board with the offensive staff in 2014 and 2015.

Post 2015, we have had some curious decisions regarding staff and and player personnel, most notably Bob Shoop leaving and appointing Ricky Rahne as OC following JoeMo.

Your second paragraph is fair and could actually result in some reasonable discussion. But your first paragraph is unmitigated crap.

 

[JWB389]

Contrary to popular belief, the sanctions weren't all that crippling and are frequently used to excuse poor performance. I'll get attacked for saying it and quite frankly, I don't care but they had minimal impact on the team's performance other than the initial wave of transfers which cost us a few games in 12 and 13 and really nothing beyond that. What did cost us was a rookie DC in 2013 and general lack of competence across the board with the offensive staff in 2014 and 2015.

Post 2015, we have had some curious decisions regarding staff and and player personnel, most notably Bob Shoop leaving and appointing Ricky Rahne as OC following JoeMo.

I think it cost us the Pitt game in 2016 and possibly the Rose Bowl. Probably more, but they were off the top of my head.

 

[Chickenman Testa]

sanctions going into 2012? Four years later we won a Big Ten title.

https://247sports.com/college/penn-...9ZuWXSrh1y0W0WSd4MnmIey89nA5L2WG67pYCXyTm1pJg

No different than some of the idiots on here braying for Al Golden and the like

 

[MaconNitt]

We also do not know the impact of the sanctions as it pertains to the recruits we lost.

 

[Madsol]

I think it cost us the Pitt game in 2016 and possibly the Rose Bowl. Probably more, but they were off the top of my head.

Pretty sure we were ahead late against Maryland, Michigan, Illinois and Ohio State in 2014 and against Northwestern in 2015 and ended up losing all of those games. You have to believe better depth would have helped us pull out some or all of those games. The idea that the sanctions didn't effect us is an idea not even a Pitt fan would try to push.

 

[Wallace Breen]

Contrary to popular belief, the sanctions weren't all that crippling and are frequently used to excuse poor performance. I'll get attacked for saying it and quite frankly, I don't care but they had minimal impact on the team's performance other than the initial wave of transfers which cost us a few games in 12 and 13 and really nothing beyond that. What did cost us was a rookie DC in 2013 and general lack of competence across the board with the offensive staff in 2014 and 2015.

I don't have any idea how you can say that. You nor I have any idea what those teams would have been like had they had the full complement. As it stands, PSU had one of the worst offensive lines in Power Five football. We have up a sack against a TWO MAN RUSH against Temple.

I would suggest that the actions weren't as damaging to PSU as most programs because a) we had some very good coaches and 2) kids wanted to play for our fans; 105,000 on a white out night. While we did well, we were fortunate we didn't have more injuries and that the ones we did put on campus panned out (for the most part).

I know O'Brien and his staff felt they had a really good shot at running the table in 2014. That of course was before Erickson and Joyner ran him out of town but they were that confident.

The funny thing about the offensive line is that they rated out above average in the Big Ten when they employed man blocking. Unfortunately, they only used it about 15% of the time. We gave up a sack on a two man rush because Donovan was incompetent. Nothing more, nothing less.

 

[MJG-90]

I think it cost us the Pitt game in 2016 and possibly the Rose Bowl. Probably more, but they were off the top of my head.

Lack of depth at Linebacker may have cost us both of those games. The lack of depth was due to sanctions. It's not really debatable.

Out of the gate the sanctions cost us our top RB, WR and K. Then our recruiting lost several NFL draft picks who decommitted and went elsewhere.

Anyone suggesting the sanctions didn't hurt us much is either stoooopid or is just being intentionally difficult.

 

[1PSUfootball1]

Contrary to popular belief, the sanctions weren't all that crippling and are frequently used to excuse poor performance. I'll get attacked for saying it and quite frankly, I don't care but they had minimal impact on the team's performance other than the initial wave of transfers which cost us a few games in 12 and 13 and really nothing beyond that. What did cost us was a rookie DC in 2013 and general lack of competence across the board with the offensive staff in 2014 and 2015.

Post 2015, we have had some curious decisions regarding staff and and player personnel, most notably Bob Shoop leaving and appointing Ricky Rahne as OC following JoeMo.

One of the worst posts in quite a while. But i guess everyone is entitled to their opinion even when they are 100% wrong.

 

[Obliviax]

I know O'Brien and his staff felt they had a really good shot at running the table in 2014. That of course was before Erickson and Joyner ran him out of town but they were that confident.

The funny thing about the offensive line is that they rated out above average in the Big Ten when they employed man blocking. Unfortunately, they only used it about 15% of the time. We gave up a sack on a two man rush because Donovan was incompetent. Nothing more, nothing less.

I love Paris Palmer but he was the worst offensive lineman I've ever seen play at PSU. I remember Calahan (miss him!) writing, after that game, that this was the worst OL not only at Penn state, but in the history of B1G football.

 

[Madsol]

I know O'Brien and his staff felt they had a really good shot at running the table in 2014. That of course was before Erickson and Joyner ran him out of town but they were that confident.

The funny thing about the offensive line is that they rated out above average in the Big Ten when they employed man blocking. Unfortunately, they only used it about 15% of the time. We gave up a sack on a two man rush because Donovan was incompetent. Nothing more, nothing less.

I guess I've missed you on here before. You simply make things up and get people all stirred up. So now we're to believe that you were privy to O'Brien's belief that the 2014 team was stacked. And that was in December of 2013 before he left. Having not seen spring practice or the freshmen who would sign in February, he was THAT confident in a team that had just finished 7-5 and had, what, 6 or 7 scholarship OL coming back. Riiiiiightttt...

 

[JWB389]

Lack of depth at Linebacker may have cost us both of those games. The lack of depth was due to sanctions. It's not really debatable.

Out of the gate the sanctions cost us our top RB, WR and K. Then our recruiting lost several NFL draft picks who decommitted and went elsewhere.

Anyone suggesting the sanctions didn't hurt us much is either stoooopid or is just being intentionally difficult.

The LB situation was what I was getting at. It made the Michigan loss a lot worse than it should have been too.

 

[sluggo72]

I love Paris Palmer but he was the worst offensive lineman I've ever seen play at PSU. I remember Calahan (miss him!) writing, after that game, that this was the worst OL not only at Penn state, but in the history of B1G football.

You only say that because Wendy was too far inside to be seen on TV.

 

[Kiber]

Contrary to popular belief, the sanctions weren't all that crippling and are frequently used to excuse poor performance. I'll get attacked for saying it and quite frankly, I don't care but they had minimal impact on the team's performance other than the initial wave of transfers which cost us a few games in 12 and 13 and really nothing beyond that. What did cost us was a rookie DC in 2013 and general lack of competence across the board with the offensive staff in 2014 and 2015.

Post 2015, we have had some curious decisions regarding staff and and player personnel, most notably Bob Shoop leaving and appointing Ricky Rahne as OC following JoeMo.

Correct ... "I'll get attacked for saying it...".

Yes, you will and rightfully so. Have you ever played football or been associated with a team? I say that with all due respect. Because if you did, you would understand that sanctions cutting a team's scholarship level down to about 45 players is beyond crippling and greatly affect team's performance. You realize that for 2-3 years when we were down at 40-50 scholarship players, we did not even have 2 full offensive lines to practice. When Franklin first arrived in 2014, we had like 6 scholarship OL, just to be able to run a 2-deep at practice he switched Brian Gaia and Derek Dowry from DL over to OL, those 2 gave us 8 scholarship athletes on OL, and we used 2 walk-ons just so we could run a 2-deep at OL for practices.... You ever see 300lb guys have to take every snap in practice? Let's just say they get tired real quick.

Imagine an NFL team being allowed to have only 30 players on their roster, while all the other NFL teams had 53........ You think that NFL team is not at a competitive dis-advantage???

 

[Wallace Breen]

I guess I've missed you on here before. You simply make things up and get people all stirred up. So now we're to believe that you were privy to O'Brien's belief that the 2014 team was stacked. And that was in December of 2013 before he left. Having not seen spring practice or the freshmen who would sign in February, he was THAT confident in a team that had just finished 7-5 and had, what, 6 or 7 scholarship OL coming back. Riiiiiightttt...

Think what you want. I don't really care. Just restating what I was told by a member of the staff.

 

[JWB389]

In fairness, I think the sanctions failed to cost us as many games as the rest of the college football world hoped they would.

 

[Wallace Breen]

Correct ... "I'll get attacked for saying it...".

Yes, you will and rightfully so. Have you ever played football or been associated with a team? I say that with all due respect. Because if you did, you would understand that sanctions cutting a team's scholarship level down to about 45 players is beyond crippling and greatly affect team's performance. You realize that for 2-3 years when we were down at 40-50 scholarship players, we did not even have 2 full offensive lines to practice. When Franklin first arrived in 2014, we had like 6 scholarship OL, just to be able to run a 2-deep at practice he switched Brian Gaia and Derek Dowry from DL over to OL, those 2 gave us 8 scholarship athletes on OL, and we used 2 walk-ons just so we could run a 2-deep at OL for practices.... You ever see 300lb guys have to take every snap in practice? Let's just say they get tired real quick.

Imagine an NFL team being allowed to have only 30 players on their roster, while all the other NFL teams had 53........ You think that NFL team is not at a competitive dis-advantage???

Again, I am fine with getting attacked. Notice how you failed to address the point about the line being rated above average in the Big Ten when running man blocking?

 

[MJG-90]

Again, I am fine with getting attacked. Notice how you failed to address the point about the line being rated above average in the Big Ten when running man blocking?

Notice you just made a claim without any actual proof?

 

[Madsol]

Think what you want. I don't really care. Just restating what I was told by a member of the staff.

You obviously care. You responded. And I don't believe you for a second.

 

[Connorpozlee]

Am I remembering correctly that at one point the team had 8 offensive linemen on scholarship and two of them were moved over from the d-line? The effects of the sanctions were profound.

 

[rmem]

Think what you want. I don't really care. Just restating what I was told by a member of the staff.

LMAO.

 

[sluggo72]

Again, I am fine with getting attacked. Notice how you failed to address the point about the line being rated above average in the Big Ten when running man blocking?

by whom?

 

[MJG-90]

Am I remembering correctly that at one point the team had 8 offensive linemen in scholarship and two of them were move over from the d-line? The effects of the sanctions were profound.

Yes and then one of the 6 got injured and missed games. It was crazy. But hey, @Wallace Breen claims a coach told him they expected to run the table with that line.

 

[NittPicker]

Franklin perplexes Finebaum because he doesn't understand why any head coach would leave the SEC for a job in the Big Ten.

 

[Cletus11]

Contrary to popular belief, the sanctions weren't all that crippling and are frequently used to excuse poor performance. I'll get attacked for saying it and quite frankly, I don't care but they had minimal impact on the team's performance other than the initial wave of transfers which cost us a few games in 12 and 13 and really nothing beyond that. What did cost us was a rookie DC in 2013 and general lack of competence across the board with the offensive staff in 2014 and 2015.

Post 2015, we have had some curious decisions regarding staff and and player personnel, most notably Bob Shoop leaving and appointing Ricky Rahne as OC following JoeMo.

so your post is just trolling as nobody can be that dumb.

As for your second paragraph, purely for discussion purposes to take the mind of of Covid, the Bob Shoop leaving wasn't curious. Bob Shoop left because he and JFF had a falling out based on what appears to be Bob continually asking for more and more money and JFF basically calling his bluff. Combine that with Shoop thinking that Tennessee was on the verge of something big and that a couple of years at a playoff type Tennessee team would get him that head coaching gig he wanted so badly. Shoop obviously made the wrong decision but zero curious about it.

As for Rhane, most did not like the move when it occurred. JFF is loyal, he flat out tells people that. He gave Rhane a shot as Rhane had been grooming to be the Ocoordinator for a while. It was a calculated gamble by JFF that promoting Rhane would allow for some continuity with Trace and the offense and that Rhane had what it took to be a top flight coordinator. I would not say that was an unusual decision.

 

[tboyer]

Contrary to popular belief, the sanctions weren't all that crippling .

he he, ah, no. The most obvious thing was how you held your breath on every KO return because if there was any break in coverage, the other team got an automatic TD because PSU didn't have anybody on special teams with Div. 1 coverage speed. They had to save fast players for O and D. In a lot of situations PSU just kicked off out of bounds because it produced the best outcome. And remember how O'Brien went for it on 4th down because they couldn't kick FGs and didn't have protection that worked.

The second most obvious thing was they really only had 2 Division 1-ready O-linemen at one point. That was Hackenburg's sophomore year when he couldn't even dream about setting his feet (and he's a QB who needed to set his feet). That was the year Temple had an absurd 12 sacks or something and they were only sending 5 most of the game.

The third thing was when they had injuries/ejections. The 2016 team won the B1G fairly miraculously, but that team did not have any depth at LBer. Two injuries and an ejection against Michigan, they had to play walkons right out of high school, so naturally they were lost.

The conventional wisdom is that O'Brien and Franklin did a great job of covering for the deficits that resulted from sanctions. In this case, the conventional wisdom is right.

 

[AWS1022]

he he, ah, no. The most obvious thing was how you held your breath on every KO return because if there was any break in coverage, the other team got an automatic TD because PSU didn't have anybody on special teams with Div. 1 coverage speed. They had to save fast players for O and D. In a lot of situations PSU just kicked off out of bounds because it produced the best outcome. And remember how O'Brien went for it on 4th down because they couldn't kick FGs and didn't have protection that worked.

The second most obvious thing was they really only had 2 Division 1-ready O-linemen at one point. That was Hackenburg's sophomore year when he couldn't even dream about setting his feet (and he's a QB who needed to set his feet). That was the year Temple had an absurd 12 sacks or something and they were only sending 5 most of the game.

The third thing was when they had injuries/ejections. The 2016 team won the B1G fairly miraculously, but that team did not have any depth at LBer. Two injuries and an ejection against Michigan, they had to play walkons right out of high school, so naturally they were lost.

The conventional wisdom is that O'Brien and Franklin did a great job of covering for the deficits that resulted from sanctions. In this case, the conventional wisdom is right.

And don’t forget all the limitations they had in practices due to not having a full roster.

 

[BBrown]

Contrary to popular belief, the sanctions weren't all that crippling and are frequently used to excuse poor performance. I'll get attacked for saying it and quite frankly, I don't care but they had minimal impact on the team's performance other than the initial wave of transfers which cost us a few games in 12 and 13 and really nothing beyond that. What did cost us was a rookie DC in 2013 and general lack of competence across the board with the offensive staff in 2014 and 2015.

Post 2015, we have had some curious decisions regarding staff and and player personnel, most notably Bob Shoop leaving and appointing Ricky Rahne as OC following JoeMo.

 

[Wallace Breen]

Like I said, the sanctions are frequently used as excuses for poor coaching.

 

[psugisher]

Think what you want. I don't really care. Just restating what I was told by a member of the staff.

Probably meant that he felt PSU could beat anyone on their schedule which is different than thinking we should win every game on the schedule.

Besides lack of depth and no offensive line, lack of scholarships created some mediocre to really bad special teams play. Field position has improved tremendously due to having a legit scholarship punter and can't say enough about our place kickers the past few years. Ficken improved a ton but our punters struggled and played a big role in every game. Franklin improved quickly because he found incredible playmakers which probably hid some deficiencies. Those successes have allowed him to recruit and build depth at those positions of need.

If you can't see how big a difference the roster in 2020 is from 2014, then I don't know what to tell you..

 

[grad83psu]

Lack of depth at Linebacker may have cost us both of those games. The lack of depth was due to sanctions. It's not really debatable.

Out of the gate the sanctions cost us our top RB, WR and K. Then our recruiting lost several NFL draft picks who decommitted and went elsewhere.

Anyone suggesting the sanctions didn't hurt us much is either stoooopid or is just being intentionally difficult.

In Wallace's case, it is both of those things!!!

 

[sluggo72]

Like I said, the sanctions are frequently used as excuses for poor coaching.

poor coaching? really? By whom, specifically.

its hard to make Chicken Vesuvio out of chicken shiat

 

[MaconNitt]

I hope he's high cuz you can't fix stoopid

 

[SaquonCappelletti]

Paul uses the word "perplexed" and in a way I agree. I'll explain.

On paper, James Franklin's tenure has been outstanding. We know what he's done — Cotton Bowl W, Fiesta Bowl W, Big Ten title, Rose Bowl L — and it's hard to be upset with those accomplishments. The history books will remember the past six years in a very positive light.

However, as someone who's watched nearly every snap of the last six years, there have been some high-profile odd play-calling choices that cost us wins.

It's kind of like we built up so much bad karma in 2016 and 2017 — winning tossup games against Temple, Minnesota, tOSU, Wisconsin, Iowa — that we've been punished with these awfully close "what could have been?" scenarios.

TLDR: Franklin has been great at Penn State and it's hard to be anything but thrilled with a 56-23 record. But some of those 23 losses, especially in the last four years, have been hard to stomach and easy to question.

 

[BOSCO2]

I think it cost us the Pitt game in 2016 and possibly the Rose Bowl. Probably more, but they were off the top of my head.

We've got losses to Ill & Md during that time for total lack of a running game. Not to mention that Hack got knocked on his ass 100 times over the his last 2 years. That certainly affected his game, too.