Deeper look at the play that turned the game around: 4th and 3

[TenerHallTerror]

maybe Narduzzi needs to make keychains with "4th and 3" on them

with 4:44 left in the half, Narduzzi decided to "go for it" on 4th and 3rd from the PSU 4

which . . . they had just run 2 plays for 4 yds each . . . seems like the idea was to run it up the gut again and pound for a TD or a 1st down. Pitt had been running all over Penn State to that point, and Penn State offense had managed a missed FG, Punt, and Fumble after an opening TD drive.

So why was this a HORRIBLE decision by the dooze?

simply put, you take the POINTS in a game like this. always. forever and ever.

Kessman had missed a 35 yd FG on the last series, but this was a chip shot up the gut. An extra point. 3 easy points on the board. Take the lead 9-7. Kick off and keep the defensive momentum going. Give the kicker and the offense some confidence.

Instead, Pitt gets stuffed on one of the most vanilla play calls . . . with such a highly touted QB in Pickett, if you're GOING to go for it on 4th and 3rd, why not spread the D and play a few wide outs? #14 (McPhearson I think) lines up on the line of scrimmage, just outside the tight end, and NO ONE picks him up or touches him. He's able to make contact with the RB as he pauses to look for a gap off tackle.

Just bad bad coaching.

btw, Pitt would not get another first down until Penn State was already up 44-6 late in the 4th.

Instead of getting a first down at the 1, or scoring a TD, Pitt turns the ball over and gives the Penn State D the charge they need going into halftime.

btw also great disruption at the line of scrimmage by the front 4 so as NOT to give Ollison an easy gap. Great protection by the LBs as well.

just like Pitt to never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity

 

[OzLion]

[QUOTE="TenerHallTerror, post: 3652551, member: 77058" ]

btw, Pitt would no get another first down until Penn State was already up 44-6 late in the 4th.

[\QUOTE]

This is pretty amazing, especially considering how the game was going at that point.

 

[83wuzme]

The playcall was questionable, but deciding against the FG was probably not.
Remember, Pitt didn’t have their regular holder. They had already botched a PAT, missed a FG and the ball was really wet.
Nardon’t - zi made stupid media comments the whole week, firing up PSU. For a seasoned coach facing a more talented opponent, this was about the dumbest decision possible.

 

[TenerHallTerror]

The playcall was questionable, but deciding against the FG was probably not.
Remember, Pitt didn’t have their regular holder. They had already botched a PAT, missed a FG and the ball was really wet.
Nardon’t - zi made stupid media comments the whole week, firing up PSU. For a seasoned coach facing a more talented opponent, this was about the dumbest decision possible.

and I totally forgot HE CALLED A TIME OUT after the offense had initially lined up and Penn State's D was not aligned.

know what I remember? The PSU/FSU 2006 Orange Bowl. Kevin Kelly missed a FG in regulation that would have won the game. He missed a FG in the first OT that would have won the game. Did Joe hesitate to get him out there to win the game in the next OT? Not at all.

This decision showed horrible judgment and a lack of faith in his players.

 

[pandaczar12]

simply put, you take the POINTS in a game like this. always. forever and ever.

So the final score could have been 51-9!

 

[BBrown]

maybe Narduzzi needs to make keychains with "4th and 3" on them

with 4:44 left in the half, Narduzzi decided to "go for it" on 4th and 3rd from the PSU 4

which . . . they had just run 2 plays for 4 yds each . . . seems like the idea was to run it up the gut again and pound for a TD or a 1st down. Pitt had been running all over Penn State to that point, and Penn State offense had managed a missed FG, Punt, and Fumble after an opening TD drive.

So why was this a HORRIBLE decision by the dooze?

simply put, you take the POINTS in a game like this. always. forever and ever.

Kessman had missed a 35 yd FG on the last series, but this was a chip shot up the gut. An extra point. 3 easy points on the board. Take the lead 9-7. Kick off and keep the defensive momentum going. Give the kicker and the offense some confidence.

Instead, Pitt gets stuffed on one of the most vanilla play calls . . . with such a highly touted QB in Pickett, if you're GOING to go for it on 4th and 3rd, why not spread the D and play a few wide outs? #14 (McPhearson I think) lines up on the line of scrimmage, just outside the tight end, and NO ONE picks him up or touches him. He's able to make contact with the RB as he pauses to look for a gap off tackle.

Just bad bad coaching.

btw, Pitt would not get another first down until Penn State was already up 44-6 late in the 4th.

Instead of getting a first down at the 1, or scoring a TD, Pitt turns the ball over and gives the Penn State D the charge they need going into halftime.

btw also great disruption at the line of scrimmage by the front 4 so as NOT to give Ollison an easy gap. Great protection by the LBs as well.

just like Pitt to never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity

Actually I kind of understood why he went for it. I mean their holder couldn't "hold" anything.
I just thought it was a lousy play call.
Oh and I have always prided myself on not being banned or getting a TO for as long as I"ve been a member of the Den (PS I go back a ways LOL.) but geez Chris Peake and those pitters are a sensitive bunch, I make one mention of a lousy "key chain" and I'm banned. SMH.

 

[BOSCO2]

On a sloppy field and steady rain, having the lead is such an advantage. As the playing surface gets worse and ball handling gets tougher, once you're behind in the score, the pressure on the offense increases exponentially. Grab the lead when you can and kick a FG.

 

[BBrown]

The playcall was questionable, but deciding against the FG was probably not.
Remember, Pitt didn’t have their regular holder. They had already botched a PAT, missed a FG and the ball was really wet.
Nardon’t - zi made stupid media comments the whole week, firing up PSU. For a seasoned coach facing a more talented opponent, this was about the dumbest decision possible.

Not only that but he tripled down on saying stupid shit by saying "its not over"...Note to NoDnuzzi. Yea its over. You saw the talent gap on Sat. night. It gets 5x worse next year for you Pat.
I think you guys should get down on your hands and knees and thank Sanding for ending this completely 1 sided
"rivalry" game.

 

[aalion]

I have no love for the Duzz. I think he is so horrible that I renamed my pathetic fantasy football team from the Joe Paterno 409ers to the Pat Narduzzi 3and9ers.... but he would have 'taken the points' every time if he thought the points were there to be taken. He had no confidence in the FG.

All that said, the play call was infantile. You have a very elusive QB. Roll him out and get him options. You don't get 3 yards by bunching 8 lineman together, especially on the 4 yard line.

 

[LionJim]

It's kind of like a Wisconsin game when BB was still coaching in Madison. He went for it on fourth fairly early in the game, mid-second quarter if I recall, and failed but explained after the game that it was a desperate move because PSU had such a superior team that day.

It's my take that PN did the same thing on Saturday; he knew that PSU was going to score 20+ in the second half and had to do something at that moment. Right decision, terrible play call.

 

[Ranger Dan]

I think given the poor Pitt special teams, awful weather and the superior Penn State talent, it was a no-brainer to go for the first down and the TD.

 

[AWS1022]

So the final score could have been 51-9!

This^^^^ It would have made no difference....once the nerves settled and the adjustments were made, our superior talent won out big and would have regardless of what happened on that drive.

 

[TenerHallTerror]

This^^^^ It would have made no difference....once the nerves settled and the adjustments were made, our superior talent won out big and would have regardless of what happened on that drive.

yes we have superior talent. but there's no question that play call was poor, especially coming out of a time out

honestly, I thought Dooz has a moment of clarity and decided to kick the FG.

and that stop clearly gave the D the juice they needed to keep PSU in the game

big difference going into the locker room down 9-7, rather than up 14-6

 

[MrDibbs]

Watching the game (and t was a game at that point), I thought that Pitt should get the touchdown and a 2 point conversion at that point. Also thought that gaining the yardage necessary for a first down was very do-able because they had just gotten 7 yards on 2 carries.

Where the sPitt brain trust crapped the bed was in their formation packing everybody in tight. Even if you do not intend to throw the football at that spot on the field, give the impression that you just may throw the football and spread the defense a bit.

For my money, the better play for them would be to roll Pickett out of the pocket and let him work his magic. Too bad, after all they are sPitt.

This game was really a throwback game. I kept thinking the ghosts of Carson Long, Freddie Jacobs and all the rest of sPitt's past were showing up at Heinz. Even at the end, I was reminiscing about Carl Depasqua.

I slept like a baby Saturday night.

 

[MJG-90]

This game was really a throwback game. I kept thinking the ghosts of Carson Long

I had multiple thoughts of that 7-6 snoozer throughout the first half. Was that '75?

 

[MtNittany]

How were they going to "take the points" when their holder couldn't catch the snap?

 

[KnightWhoSaysNit]

Had they scored a TD there I think Narduzzi doesn't lose his team at the half. That's really what made the game so lopsided. I think PSU still wins with superior talent but much closer.

 

[TenerHallTerror]

Had they scored a TD there I think Narduzzi doesn't lose his team at the half. That's really what made the game so lopsided. I think PSU still wins with superior talent but much closer.

I also think it exposed Pickett's weakness in the passing game.

Either he doesn't have it, or the coaching staff doesn't believe in him.

Crikey, his QBR for that game was 13.1. versus Albany it was 92.9

his longest "pass" was 13 yds. just pitiful

but it showed PSU they could play tighter to the line and jump the gaps more to stop Ollison

 

[MJG-90]

I also think it exposed Pickett's weakness in the passing game.

Either he doesn't have it, or the coaching staff doesn't believe in him.

I think they just have horrendous receivers right now. No tight end, no WRs that can get any separation, no RB options. Nobody was open all night. I'm not going to put that on their QB without more data.

 

[83wuzme]

and I totally forgot HE CALLED A TIME OUT after the offense had initially lined up and Penn State's D was not aligned.

know what I remember? The PSU/FSU 2006 Orange Bowl. Kevin Kelly missed a FG in regulation that would have won the game. He missed a FG in the first OT that would have won the game. Did Joe hesitate to get him out there to win the game in the next OT? Not at all.

This decision showed horrible judgment and a lack of faith in his players.

Yeah, the TO was pretty bad. But hey, when you can’t even figure out a coin toss ...

 

[LionJim]

Yeah, the TO was pretty bad. But hey, when you can’t even figure out a coin toss ...

 

[lein]

and I totally forgot HE CALLED A TIME OUT after the offense had initially lined up and Penn State's D was not aligned.

know what I remember? The PSU/FSU 2006 Orange Bowl. Kevin Kelly missed a FG in regulation that would have won the game. He missed a FG in the first OT that would have won the game. Did Joe hesitate to get him out there to win the game in the next OT? Not at all.

This decision showed horrible judgment and a lack of faith in his players.

Overtime is different than first half. That and Kelly wasn’t the second string kicker.

Pitt was using their second string holder, who botched plays all night. Who knows, maybe he struggled in practice too.

 

[KnightWhoSaysNit]

I also think it exposed Pickett's weakness in the passing game.

Either he doesn't have it, or the coaching staff doesn't believe in him.

Crikey, his QBR for that game was 13.1. versus Albany it was 92.9

his longest "pass" was 13 yds. just pitiful

but it showed PSU they could play tighter to the line and jump the gaps more to stop Ollison

I didn't understand why their pass patterns were so deep in a game where they could have picked on our young linebackers. I thought that was the flaw in their offensive strategy. It's like they didn't watch the App State tape. So, in the 2nd half our linebackers played the run, much like teams have typically done to us.

Pitt got blown out in large part due to their own coaching staff.

 

[TenerHallTerror]

Overtime is different than first half. That and Kelly wasn’t the second string kicker.

Pitt was using their second string holder, who botched plays all night. Who knows, maybe he struggled in practice too.

I was just alluding to how Joe never played to thinking the kicker wouldn't make it. even when he missed twice.

 

[pandaczar12]

For my money, the better play for them would be to roll Pickett out of the pocket and let him work his magic. Too bad, after all they are sPitt.

I agree, when you have a future 4* time Heisman winner on your team, you use them!

*I realize he is a sophomore, but I assume they will award him the Heisman for his freshman year retroactively, like all of their national titles.

 

[TenerHallTerror]

I agree, when you have a future 4* time Heisman winner on your team, you use them!

*I realize he is a sophomore, but I assume they will award him the Heisman for his freshman year retroactively, like all of their national titles.

but but but . . . he's better than Trace.

 

[aalion]

yes we have superior talent. but there's no question that play call was poor, especially coming out of a time out

honestly, I thought Dooz has a moment of clarity and decided to kick the FG.

and that stop clearly gave the D the juice they needed to keep PSU in the game

big difference going into the locker room down 9-7, rather than up 14-6

How does kicking the FG lead to going into locker room 9-7? We almost certainly have better field position after a KO than we did getting it at the 4... yes maybe they have slightly more 'momentum' from a FG vs the downer of not getting the first but still... we get a KO return and move the ball, even if we punt (as we did) the game proceeds more or less as it did. We stop them, they fumble the punt,... etc. Obviously everything is different but no reason to think they go in 9-7 if they kick the FG.

 

[CJF_Said_The_Great_Joe_Paterno]

maybe Narduzzi needs to make keychains with "4th and 3" on them

with 4:44 left in the half, Narduzzi decided to "go for it" on 4th and 3rd from the PSU 4

which . . . they had just run 2 plays for 4 yds each . . . seems like the idea was to run it up the gut again and pound for a TD or a 1st down. Pitt had been running all over Penn State to that point, and Penn State offense had managed a missed FG, Punt, and Fumble after an opening TD drive.

So why was this a HORRIBLE decision by the dooze?

simply put, you take the POINTS in a game like this. always. forever and ever.

Kessman had missed a 35 yd FG on the last series, but this was a chip shot up the gut. An extra point. 3 easy points on the board. Take the lead 9-7. Kick off and keep the defensive momentum going. Give the kicker and the offense some confidence.

Instead, Pitt gets stuffed on one of the most vanilla play calls . . . with such a highly touted QB in Pickett, if you're GOING to go for it on 4th and 3rd, why not spread the D and play a few wide outs? #14 (McPhearson I think) lines up on the line of scrimmage, just outside the tight end, and NO ONE picks him up or touches him. He's able to make contact with the RB as he pauses to look for a gap off tackle.

Just bad bad coaching.

btw, Pitt would not get another first down until Penn State was already up 44-6 late in the 4th.

Instead of getting a first down at the 1, or scoring a TD, Pitt turns the ball over and gives the Penn State D the charge they need going into halftime.

btw also great disruption at the line of scrimmage by the front 4 so as NOT to give Ollison an easy gap. Great protection by the LBs as well.

just like Pitt to never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity

It's a myth that ASWP was controlling the LOS - almost all of their first half rushing yardage came off the 2 long runs from scrimmage and 3rd-&-long scrambles of 10+ yards for 1st downs (often enabled by uncalled blatant holding) by Pickett. Ollison rushed for 119 yards on 21 carries (5.7 yards) - eliminating his 68 yard run on ASWP's 4th Possession, Ollison ran for 51 yards on 20 carries (2.5 ypc). This is what made NarDouchie's call particularly bad - the vast majority of Ollison's carries would not have picked up a 1st down...too make matters worse, he put all 11 of ASPW's players inside the tackles allowing PSU to utterlly stuff the box without worrying about any receivers. PSU hit Ollison deep in the backfield for a 2 yard loss on a 4th-&-3 situation! No better evidence than that as to how utterly silly this call was!

 

[MrDibbs]

I had multiple thoughts of that 7-6 snoozer throughout the first half. Was that '75?

That was 1975 at Three Rivers Stadium.

Carson Long missed 3 field goals that day if my memory is correct. The final miss was very late in the 4th quarter from "chip shot range".

He shouldn't have needed to miss that field goal, but Gordon "Too Much" Jones caught what should have been a game winning touchdown pass, but tried to run over a PSU defensive back and got tackled.

What a cast of characters.

 

[TenerHallTerror]

It's a myth that ASWP was controlling the LOS - almost all of their first half rushing yardage came off the 2 long runs from scrimmage and 3rd-&-long scrambles of 10+ yards for 1st downs (often enabled by uncalled blatant holding) by Pickett. Ollison rushed for 119 yards on 21 carries (5.7 yards) - eliminating his 68 yard run on ASWP's 4th Possession, Ollison ran for 51 yards on 20 carries (2.5 ypc). This is what made NarDouchie's call particularly bad - the vast majority of Ollison's carries would not have picked up a 1st down...too make matters worse, he put all 11 of ASPW's players inside the tackles allowing PSU to utterlly stuff the box without worrying about any receivers. PSU hit Ollison deep in the backfield for a 2 yard loss on a 4th-&-3 situation! No better evidence than that as to how utterly silly this call was!

right. and he was hit by a CB lined up at the line of scrimmage and a few inches outside the tight end (who probably should have picked him up).

stupid stupid call after a time out!

 

[Big 0]

I had multiple thoughts of that 7-6 snoozer throughout the first half. Was that '75?

I remarked to my wife that the 7-6 game in 1975 was the first Penn State-Pitt game I had ever seen, since I had made the decision to attend Penn State earlier that fall.

 

[ILLINOISLION]

I think it was a great decision to go for it, especially after their holder had already botched two snaps. The decision had nothing to do with confidence in his kicker, the decision had everything to do with a lack of confidence in his holder.

Plus, if you don’t get the first down or touchdown, you have PSU inside their five yard line on a sloppy field, in the rain. A possible turnover or a punt from the end zone. PSU’s O hadn’t exactly shown a whole lot at that point in the game.

The play call itself, however, was dumb dumb dumb and dumber. Tight formation, no wideouts, no motion, an inside handoff. If I was PSU’s Defensive Coordinator, I’d have been on my knees looking to the sky and saying “thank you thank you thank you.”

 

[jabba2]

If they scored a TD there it could have changed some of the momentum. Luckily, Rahne or someone in the pressbox made the right adjustments, because Pitt was gashing PSU for huge gains up until this playcall.

 

[CJF_Said_The_Great_Joe_Paterno]

If they scored a TD there it could have changed some of the momentum. Luckily, Rahne or someone in the pressbox made the right adjustments, because Pitt was gashing PSU for huge gains up until this playcall.

Wrong! How precisely could it be 4th-&-3 if ASWP was "gashing" PSU's defense with significant runs just prior to this call? The prior 3 plays were all runs and they netted precisely 7 yards (or 2.3 yards per run) resulting in a very difficult 4th-&-3 situation. Utterly laughable to claim ASWP was controlling the LOS and gashing PSU's Front 7 on the plays immediately preceeding this situation as ASWP would NOT have been in a 4th-&-3 situation (with the ability to make a 1st Down without scoring) if what you're trying to sell were actually true.