Current college hierarchy?

[matter7172]

Based on the results of the last 8 years, I'd say:

Top tier:
1. PSU
2. tOSU

Second tier - The next 7 in no particular order:
Iowa, NC State, Missouri, Oklahoma State, Cornell, Michigan and VT
These schools are pretty consistently near the top and solidly in the top 10. Some of these schools will occasionally have an off year but quickly return to relevance.

Third tier (on the fringe of top ten) - Nebraska, Minnesota, Lehigh
These schools are usually at or near the top ten and often have national title contenders. But they can't seem to crack the solid 9 above them on a consistent basis. Minnesota has dropped into this tier recently and has been replaced by NC State.

Fourth tier (aiming for top ten or fighting to get there): Wisconsin, Illinois, NW, Rutgers, South Dakota State, North Carolina, Edinboro.
These schools have occasional standout individuals and flirt with top 10 status but can't stay there if they achieve it. Pretty much the 12-20 place teams.

Fifth tier - pretty much everyone else. Not relevant for title discussion or top ten status. Most likely to move up are Oklahoma and Iowa State based on their traditions.

 

[Chickenman Testa]

Programs: Ahia State

Teams: Penn State, Iowa, NC State, Missouri, Oklahoma State, Cornell, Michigan, VT etc

 

[jack66]

If you're looking back 8 years, I don't think tOSU has separated from the pack. In fact, an argument can be made that Iowa and the Bucks are neck and neck. They are 3-3 in duals, and while tOSU has a championship, Iowa has finished top-5 all 8 years to tOSU's 5.

IMO, in the era of a dynasty there is no #2.

Tier 1. PSU

Tier 3. Iowa, tOSU, Ok St, Cornell, Missouri, Minny
Tier 4. Others (Mich and NCS belong here, they just had their 1st top-5 finish in this 8 year window)

 

[Notsofastmyfriend21]

1. Penn State
2. Positive Infinity
3. Iowa
4. Oklahoma State
5. Cornell

 

[PSUer1989]

Does that make them PIS instead of tOSU?

 

[matter7172]

If you're looking back 8 years, I don't think tOSU has separated from the pack. In fact, an argument can be made that Iowa and the Bucks are neck and neck. They are 3-3 in duals, and while tOSU has a championship, Iowa has finished top-5 all 8 years to tOSU's 5.

IMO, in the era of a dynasty there is no #2.

Tier 1. PSU

Tier 3. Iowa, tOSU, Ok St, Cornell, Missouri, Minny
Tier 4. Others (Mich and NCS belong here, they just had their 1st top-5 finish in this 8 year window)

I definitely considered trend in my assessments. So Minnesota slipped and NC State went up. tOSU has trended past everyone except PSU.

 

[Ja1339]

If you have a losing record in your conference, do you belong in the 4th tier?

 

[El-Jefe]

If you have a losing record in your conference, do you belong in the 4th tier?

Related: if you beat a Tier 4 school in the dual and a Tier 3 school at nationals, where do you belong?

 

[Ban Basketball]

I've kept spreadsheets of the NCAA's going back to 1999-or the current weight class system that is used-which may answer some of this.

I have no info. on "team" finishes though.

 

[PSUbluTX]

Based on the results of the last 8 years, I'd say:

Top tier:
1. PSU
2. tOSU

Second tier - The next 7 in no particular order:
Iowa, NC State, Missouri, Oklahoma State, Cornell, Michigan and VT
These schools are pretty consistently near the top and solidly in the top 10. Some of these schools will occasionally have an off year but quickly return to relevance.

Third tier (on the fringe of top ten) - Nebraska, Minnesota, Lehigh
These schools are usually at or near the top ten and often have national title contenders. But they can't seem to crack the solid 9 above them on a consistent basis. Minnesota has dropped into this tier recently and has been replaced by NC State.

Fourth tier (aiming for top ten or fighting to get there): Wisconsin, Illinois, NW, Rutgers, South Dakota State, North Carolina, Edinboro.
These schools have occasional standout individuals and flirt with top 10 status but can't stay there if they achieve it. Pretty much the 12-20 place teams.

Fifth tier - pretty much everyone else. Not relevant for title discussion or top ten status. Most likely to move up are Oklahoma and Iowa State based on their traditions.

I think you’re forgetting “Perennial Top 10” as a separate and distinct classification. Like “positive infinity,” the precise meaning of this category defies definition for most of humankind. But I understand that only one anointed team can ever qualify and the closer you roam to the Jersey shores the more sense the concept makes.

 

[burnsie1983]

1st tier: Penn St

2nd tier: Ohio St, Iowa, Okie St

3rd tier: Missouri, Cornell, NC St, VaTech, Minnesota.

 

[Pennstate1985]

went away for a few days and discovered ASU and NEB dropped wrestling. Who knew.

 

[Ian]

1st tier: Penn St

2nd tier: Ohio St, Iowa, Okie St

3rd tier: Missouri, Cornell, NC St, VaTech, Minnesota.

Cornell seems to have champions or contenders every year so may put them in T2. But PSU is the only T1 over the last ten years. Throw Lehigh, Nebraska, and Michigan in tier 3....

 

[Ja1339]

Lock Haven says Rutgers belongs in a tier lower than them

 

[jack66]

Cornell seems to have champions or contenders every year so may put them in T2. But PSU is the only T1 over the last ten years. Throw Lehigh, Nebraska, and Michigan in tier 3....

Agree on Cornell. They have finished in the top-10 all 8 years ... PSU and Iowa are the only others to do that.

NCS is a Johnny come lately. Last year was their only top-10 finishing in 8 years. Hard to see them already listed with Missouri, VaTech and Minny. They did have an impressive showing last year though. I guess if we're going by Matter's rules (trending), it does make some sense ... after all, it is his thread.

 

[Ban Basketball]

Again, this won't speak to "team" finishes (it simply reflects, in order from most to least, the number of AA's per "team"), and since 1999, but these are the top 10 "teams" over nearly 20 years.

This could be flawed, but numbers of AA's should also reflect, somewhat, how they finished as "teams" at the NCAA tournaments. And, yes, I put "team" in quotes at the NCAA tournament, but I'll refrain from why I do that, as my position on that is a road that I've gone down before and would rather not these days.

1. Iowa
2. Minnesota
3. Oklahoma State
4. Penn State
5. Cornell
6. Ohio State
7. Michigan
8. Iowa State
9. Nebraska
10. Illinois

 

[matter7172]

went away for a few days and discovered ASU and NEB dropped wrestling. Who knew.

I have Nebraska in the third tier. ASU had 9.5 points in 2016 (around 25-30 range) and in the same range in 2015. So they are basically Zahid at this point and in the fifth tier until they do more.

 

[Ian]

Team Championships:
In the 90’s Iowa 8, Okie St 2
In the 00’s Okie St 4, Iowa 3, Minnesota 3
In the 10’s PSU 7, Ohio St 1, Iowa 1

Iowa’s grip has been slipping for years.

Always in the conversation though.

 

[matter7172]

Agree on Cornell. They have finished in the top-10 all 8 years ... PSU and Iowa are the only others to do that.

NCS is a Johnny come lately. Last year was their only top-10 finishing in 8 years. Hard to see them already listed with Missouri, VaTech and Minny. They did have an impressive showing last year though. I guess if we're going by Matter's rules (trending), it does make some sense ... after all, it is his thread.

I'm open to other ideas. I took into consideration that fact that two seasons ago, NC State beat Iowa in a dual and that they have very strong recruiting classes coming in behind last year's performance. They also seem to do well developing those recruits. Minnesota could easily return to tier two with the addition of their recent recruits. Then we could actually have something close to a perennial top ten, with Nebraska and Lehigh on the bubble.

 

[redblades]

Third tier (on the fringe of top ten) - Nebraska, Minnesota, Lehigh
These schools are usually at or near the top ten and often have national title contenders. But they can't seem to crack the solid 9 above them on a consistent basis. Minnesota has dropped into this tier recently and has been replaced by NC State.

Fourth tier (aiming for top ten or fighting to get there): Wisconsin, Illinois, NW, Rutgers, South Dakota State, North Carolina, Edinboro.
These schools have occasional standout individuals and flirt with top 10 status but can't stay there if they achieve it. Pretty much the 12-20 place teams.

Lehigh probably deserves some credit for fielding consistantly strong dual teams, but over the past decade they seem to regularly fall below expectations at the NCAA tournament, with an average team finish of 18.5. The last time they cracked the top 10 was 2012, when they finished 8th. This past season - 15th.

 

[Cali_Nittany]

Don't forget about the Boro.

 

[matter7172]

Lehigh probably deserves some credit for fielding consistantly strong dual teams, but over the past decade they seem to regularly fall below expectations at the NCAA tournament, with an average team finish of 18.5. The last time they cracked the top 10 was 2012, when they finished 8th. This past season - 15th.

Yeah, I can see that. They have become a regular disappointment at nationals, 2018 probably being their biggest let-off. They gave PSU all they could handle in the dual last season. I definitely considered dual performance in addition to nationals.

I also probably was overly harsh on OSU. Upon further reflection, I'd probably put them on a level with tOSU. So sort of Penn State at 1A and OSU and tOSU at 1b.

 

[jack66]

Again, this won't speak to "team" finishes (it simply reflects, in order from most to least, the number of AA's per "team"), and since 1999, but these are the top 10 "teams" over nearly 20 years.

This could be flawed, but numbers of AA's should also reflect, somewhat, how they finished as "teams" at the NCAA tournaments. And, yes, I put "team" in quotes at the NCAA tournament, but I'll refrain from why I do that, as my position on that is a road that I've gone down before and would rather not these days.

1. Iowa
2. Minnesota
3. Oklahoma State
4. Penn State
5. Cornell
6. Ohio State
7. Michigan
8. Iowa State
9. Nebraska
10. Illinois

As time goes by one has to go further and further into history to generate a list with Iowa on top. Obviously an 8 year window puts PSU in a good light, but I wonder how far back we have to go to find the break even point for Iowa vs PSU.

 

[jack66]

I'm open to other ideas. I took into consideration that fact that two seasons ago, NC State beat Iowa in a dual and that they have very strong recruiting classes coming in behind last year's performance. They also seem to do well developing those recruits. Minnesota could easily return to tier two with the addition of their recent recruits. Then we could actually have something close to a perennial top ten, with Nebraska and Lehigh on the bubble.

PP definitely has NCS trending up. I won't be surprised if they are a regular Top-5 team over the next several years.

 

[jammenz]

Based on the results of the last 8 years, I'd say:

Top tier:
1. PSU
2. tOSU

Or, based on the results of the past 22 years:
Minny has placed in the top three 12 times, that's 55% of the time. Penn State... not so much.
Minny has won 9 National Duals titles. Penn State... not so much.
Minny has had an 18 years streak without a loss to PSU. Penn State streak....not so much.

 

[matter7172]

Or, based on the results of the past 22 years:
Minny has placed in the top three 12 times, that's 55% of the time. Penn State... not so much.
Minny has won 9 National Duals titles. Penn State... not so much.
Minny has had an 18 years streak without a loss to PSU. Penn State streak....not so much.

The king of non sequiturs strikes. Yes, and Oklahoma State has the most titles in NCAA history. *Current* is a key part of this.

 

[Chickenman Testa]

Or, based on the results of the past 22 years:
Minny has placed in the top three 12 times, that's 55% of the time. Penn State... not so much.
Minny has won 9 National Duals titles. Penn State... not so much.
Minny has had an 18 years streak without a loss to PSU. Penn State streak....not so much.

Misty, water-color memories of the way we were

 

[Brian LB-U]

Yeah, I can see that. They have become a regular disappointment at nationals, 2018 probably being their biggest let-off. They gave PSU all they could handle in the dual last season. I definitely considered dual performance in addition to nationals.

I also probably was overly harsh on OSU. Upon further reflection, I'd probably put them on a level with tOSU. So sort of Penn State at 1A and OSU and tOSU at 1b.

I was listening to Flo the other week and one of the hosts mentioned how they have 8 former AAs returning next season plus Daton Fix. If coach Smith can figure out who goes where, they could end up challenging tOSU and Iowa for second place.

 

[jack66]

I was listening to Flo the other week and one of the hosts mentioned how they have 8 former AAs returning next season plus Dayton Fix. If coach Smith can figure out who goes where, they could end up challenging tOSU and Iowa for second place.

Did they get a transfer? I can think of only 7. Brock, Rogers, Lewellen and Jacobe Smith from this year. Weigel, Picc and Joe Smith last year.

 

[WildTurk]

Based on the results of the past 8 years.. Hmm That's the entire time wrestling has been around dontcha know. Better narrow it down a bit more

 

[SRATH]

Cael coming to PSU is making everyone better. Would that have happened if he had stayed at ISU? Would the USA Freestyle program improved with the same speed? No doubt he would have had a major impact.

 

[lockhavenlion3]

Or, based on the results of the past 22 years:
Minny has placed in the top three 12 times, that's 55% of the time. Penn State... not so much.
Minny has won 9 National Duals titles. Penn State... not so much.
Minny has had an 18 years streak without a loss to PSU. Penn State streak....not so much.

in your best edith bunker voice,"those were the days".

 

[El-Jefe]

Or, based on the results of the past 22 years:
Minny has placed in the top three 12 times, that's 55% of the time. Penn State... not so much.
Minny has won 9 National Duals titles. Penn State... not so much.
Minny has had an 18 years streak without a loss to PSU. Penn State streak....not so much.

In order to be "relevant," Jammen picks a starting date before nearly all of today's college wrestlers were born.

 

[El-Jefe]

Did they get a transfer? I can think of only 7. Brock, Rogers, Lewellen and Jacobe Smith from this year. Weigel, Picc and Joe Smith last year.

Martinez placed at Boise.

 

[M-I-Z]

Total points at NCAAs last five years:

Penn State 588
Ohio State 488.5
Iowa 437.5
Oklahoma State 400.5
Missouri 335.5
Cornell 300
Virginia Tech 298
Minnesota 279.5
Michigan 267
Nebraska 266
Illinois 223.5
North Carolina State 213
Lehigh 176.5
Edinboro 175
Wisconsin 155.5

Next-highest has 120 points (Iowa State)

 

[nitlion6]

Minny used to be pretty good, now....not so much

That's why jambetweenhistoes roots for the Cornhuskers too. Between the two he figures the cornedgoofers can get within shouting distance of Rutgers.

 

[jammenz]

Just a reminder that Penn State has losing dual meet records against almost all the Midwestern teams:
MN....... 7-15-1
IA..........9-27-2
Ok St....7-13-1
IA St.....10-14-1
IL...........7-9
NE.........7-7-1

 

[nerfstate]

Just a reminder that Penn State has losing dual meet records against almost all the Midwestern teams:
MN....... 7-15-1
IA..........9-27-2
Ok St....7-13-1
IA St.....10-14-1
IL...........7-9
NE.........7-7-1

Yep, Penn State should just give up and close the program down....

Impressive use of your time though, to compile this!

 

[lobo lion]

Just a reminder that Penn State has losing dual meet records against almost all the Midwestern teams:
MN....... 7-15-1
IA..........9-27-2
Ok St....7-13-1
IA St.....10-14-1
IL...........7-9
NE.........7-7-1

And Pitt football is undefeated all-time against both Clemson and Georgia. Just thought I would throw out another completely irrelevant statistic to the discussion of current collegiate athletics.

 

[El-Jefe]

And Pitt football is undefeated all-time against both Clemson and Georgia. Just thought I would throw out another completely irrelevant statistic to the discussion of current collegiate athletics.

To be fair, irrelevant Pitt football has more national titles than Goofer wrestling.