At Large Bids
- Thread starter JTNPSU84
- Start date
It's a 2-step process:
Step 1 -- At-Large Eligibility (see last page here):
https://ncaaorg.s3.amazonaws.com/championships/sports/wrestling/d1/men/2021-22D1MWR_QualifierAllocationCriteria.pdf
Wrestlers that meet two or more of the 'at-large consideration standards will be eligible for at-large selection. Minimum standards include:
• .700 overall winning percentage (at the weight)
• .700 Division I winning percentage at the weight class
• Top 33 RPI (taken after the qualifying tournaments)
• Top 33 Coaches Ranking (Taken after the qualifying tournament)
• One win against a wrestler who qualified for the National Tournament
• Qualifying event placement one below AQ
Step 2 -- At-Large Selection -- see p. 7 here:
https://ncaaorg.s3.amazonaws.com/championships/sports/wrestling/d1/men/D1MWR_SelectionsProcess.pdf
• Head-to-Head Competition
• Quality Wins (defined as current year NCAA Qualifiers)
• Coaches Rank (final poll, after the qualifying tournaments)
• Conference tournament placement
• Results vs. common opponents
• Win percentage
Note that the Selection Criteria are not Go/No-Go criteria -- they're together and in comparison to everyone in the at-large eligible field.
Step 1 -- At-Large Eligibility (see last page here):
https://ncaaorg.s3.amazonaws.com/championships/sports/wrestling/d1/men/2021-22D1MWR_QualifierAllocationCriteria.pdf
Wrestlers that meet two or more of the 'at-large consideration standards will be eligible for at-large selection. Minimum standards include:
• .700 overall winning percentage (at the weight)
• .700 Division I winning percentage at the weight class
• Top 33 RPI (taken after the qualifying tournaments)
• Top 33 Coaches Ranking (Taken after the qualifying tournament)
• One win against a wrestler who qualified for the National Tournament
• Qualifying event placement one below AQ
Step 2 -- At-Large Selection -- see p. 7 here:
https://ncaaorg.s3.amazonaws.com/championships/sports/wrestling/d1/men/D1MWR_SelectionsProcess.pdf
• Head-to-Head Competition
• Quality Wins (defined as current year NCAA Qualifiers)
• Coaches Rank (final poll, after the qualifying tournaments)
• Conference tournament placement
• Results vs. common opponents
• Win percentage
Note that the Selection Criteria are not Go/No-Go criteria -- they're together and in comparison to everyone in the at-large eligible field.
Thank you. Will save this link so I don’t have to ask again next year.
Cutting to the chase -- because the real question is about Edsell:
165 has 4 at-large spots and will likely have around a dozen or so guys eligible. The first 2 are going to Anthony Valencia (Arizona State) and William Formato (Appalachian State):
- Valencia: 2-0 H2H (Formato, Edsell); 1 NQ (Wentzel), #10 in 2/20 coaches poll; one spot out at Pac12s; (TBD); 70.0%.
- Formato: 1-2 H2H (beat Fish, lost to Valencia and Carlson); 3 NQ (Bullard 2x, Barczak); #19 in 2/20 coaches poll; one spot out at SoCons; (TBD); 78.6%.
They're the only 2 guys at 70% Win %, and 2 of the 3 highest ranked candidates (Wittlake is ahead of Formato, but imploded in most other categories).
That leaves 2 spots for everybody else.
Edsell is probably close: 1-2 H2H (beat Meyer, lost to Valencia and Carlson); 2 NQs (Revano, Olguin); #26 in 2/20 coaches poll; > 1 spot out at B10s; (TBD); 68.8%. He'll be hurt by his B10 finish. OTOH, he has the 3rd best Win % and will be among the better ranked remaining candidates.
Without going thru the rest of the candidates in detail, Caleb Fish (Michigan State) is probably ahead of Edsell by virtue of finishing higher at the same tournament.
165 has 4 at-large spots and will likely have around a dozen or so guys eligible. The first 2 are going to Anthony Valencia (Arizona State) and William Formato (Appalachian State):
- Valencia: 2-0 H2H (Formato, Edsell); 1 NQ (Wentzel), #10 in 2/20 coaches poll; one spot out at Pac12s; (TBD); 70.0%.
- Formato: 1-2 H2H (beat Fish, lost to Valencia and Carlson); 3 NQ (Bullard 2x, Barczak); #19 in 2/20 coaches poll; one spot out at SoCons; (TBD); 78.6%.
They're the only 2 guys at 70% Win %, and 2 of the 3 highest ranked candidates (Wittlake is ahead of Formato, but imploded in most other categories).
That leaves 2 spots for everybody else.
Edsell is probably close: 1-2 H2H (beat Meyer, lost to Valencia and Carlson); 2 NQs (Revano, Olguin); #26 in 2/20 coaches poll; > 1 spot out at B10s; (TBD); 68.8%. He'll be hurt by his B10 finish. OTOH, he has the 3rd best Win % and will be among the better ranked remaining candidates.
Without going thru the rest of the candidates in detail, Caleb Fish (Michigan State) is probably ahead of Edsell by virtue of finishing higher at the same tournament.
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Valencia losing in OT to Olquin really made it tougher. Olquin wouldn't have been in and Valencia becomes #1 at large.
By my analysis, those eligible for the 4 spots are:
Valencia 16-6 -- 7 CR -- 20 RPI -- (W--Edsell, Formato, Ulrey and Grello, L-Meyer) 0 Quality Wins
Wittlake 9-7 -- 10 CR -- No RPI but now eligible -- (W--Cook, Grello, L -Cook) 1 Quality Win Barczak
Formato -- 22-6 -- 19 CR -- 10 RPI -- (W-Fish, L-Valencia) 4 Quality Wins Barczak, Mosely and Bullard x2
Meyer -- 14-10 -- 22 CR -- 9 RPI -- (W-Valencia, Harkins, Park L-Edsell, Park), 5 QW, Casella, Wentzel, Olqion x2, Revano
Braunagel -- 12-9 -- 24 CR, 17 RPI -- (W-Hubbard), 4 QW Nicholson, Ferrante, Carlson, Wilson
Edsell -- 11-5 -- 26 CR -- No RPI but now eligible -- W-Meyer, L-Valencia) 2 QW -- Olquin, Revano
Cook -- 20-11 -- 29 CR -- Not in top 33 RPI, (W-Wittlake, Hubbard, L--Grello x3, Wittlake) 1 QW -- Nicholson
Fish -- 22-12 -- 31 CR, 18 RPI, (W-Park, L-Formato, Hubbard), 2 QWs Ferrante, Hartman
Harkins -- 18-11 -- 32 CR, 31 RPI (W-Hubbard, L-Meyer, Park) -- 0 QW
Grello -- 9-8 -- No CR, No RPI but now eligible (W-Cook x3, L-Wittlake) 0 QWs (finished 1 below qualifier, needs a CR or RPI to be eligible)
Hubbard -- 23-11 -- No CR, 24 RPI (W-Fish, L-Meyer, Harkins, Braunagel, 1 QW Petite
Park -- 23-17, No CR, 27 RPI, (W-Meyer L Meyer, Fish) 1 QW Ferrante
Without fully running this out, it looks like it will be Formato, Wittlake, Valencia and Meyer. Braunagel probably first out. Edsell second out ahead of Fish.
By my analysis, those eligible for the 4 spots are:
Valencia 16-6 -- 7 CR -- 20 RPI -- (W--Edsell, Formato, Ulrey and Grello, L-Meyer) 0 Quality Wins
Wittlake 9-7 -- 10 CR -- No RPI but now eligible -- (W--Cook, Grello, L -Cook) 1 Quality Win Barczak
Formato -- 22-6 -- 19 CR -- 10 RPI -- (W-Fish, L-Valencia) 4 Quality Wins Barczak, Mosely and Bullard x2
Meyer -- 14-10 -- 22 CR -- 9 RPI -- (W-Valencia, Harkins, Park L-Edsell, Park), 5 QW, Casella, Wentzel, Olqion x2, Revano
Braunagel -- 12-9 -- 24 CR, 17 RPI -- (W-Hubbard), 4 QW Nicholson, Ferrante, Carlson, Wilson
Edsell -- 11-5 -- 26 CR -- No RPI but now eligible -- W-Meyer, L-Valencia) 2 QW -- Olquin, Revano
Cook -- 20-11 -- 29 CR -- Not in top 33 RPI, (W-Wittlake, Hubbard, L--Grello x3, Wittlake) 1 QW -- Nicholson
Fish -- 22-12 -- 31 CR, 18 RPI, (W-Park, L-Formato, Hubbard), 2 QWs Ferrante, Hartman
Harkins -- 18-11 -- 32 CR, 31 RPI (W-Hubbard, L-Meyer, Park) -- 0 QW
Grello -- 9-8 -- No CR, No RPI but now eligible (W-Cook x3, L-Wittlake) 0 QWs (finished 1 below qualifier, needs a CR or RPI to be eligible)
Hubbard -- 23-11 -- No CR, 24 RPI (W-Fish, L-Meyer, Harkins, Braunagel, 1 QW Petite
Park -- 23-17, No CR, 27 RPI, (W-Meyer L Meyer, Fish) 1 QW Ferrante
Without fully running this out, it looks like it will be Formato, Wittlake, Valencia and Meyer. Braunagel probably first out. Edsell second out ahead of Fish.
Yes. New coaches and new rpi tomorrow so above will change. Question is how much.
Wittlake went 0-2. Braunagel forfeited both matches.
Wittlake went 0-2. Braunagel forfeited both matches.
Nomad seems to think Edsell is front of the line for one.
I'm certainly not an expert at decoding the various at-large criteria, but intuitively, I'd be shocked if Wittlake was left out as a returning AA. I would think Wittlake and Valencia would be the first two at-larges. I don't really know where Edsell fits in, though.
The last few years they have been quite consistent on not counting previous years results in determining qualifiers and seeds. Coaches rank is really the only place where that kicks in.
Edsell's Stats according to WrestleStat:
| Season | Year | School | Rank/Plc | Weight | Record | Win % | Bonus % | RPI |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 2022 | SO St | #2 Penn State | #44 | 165 | 11 - 5 | 68.75 % | 12.50 % | 0.593 |
2022 Season
While I'd love to see it for Creighton (would be a great experience for him), I think it has zero bearing on our chances of winning the team Championship.
I agree that we will win the title by more than the amount of points Creighton gives us but would like him to be a Nationals qualifier. Also not sure if the team takes non qualifies or not but if we do win the title, I sure as hell want him in that Championship team photo.
I think there's a good chance he contributes zero points even if he gets an at-large. I really don't see him getting a spot as having any impact on our chances of winning National Championship one way or the other. But obviously would love to see it happen for him personally.
Yeah. I didn’t exactly say it correctly. At best he’s a few points in my opinion. Points I seriously doubt we need to win the title.
If Creighton locks up one cradle on the backside of the bracket and pins another 20s seed, then that's the equivalent of him making the R12 with 2 3-2 win and then bouncing out. Every point matters.
Also, wrestlers in similar profiles to Creighton have just gone on a yolo run to make the podium.
Does either happen? Not likely but Creighton deserves the opportunity if the numbers support it as Nomad says.
Also, wrestlers in similar profiles to Creighton have just gone on a yolo run to make the podium.
Does either happen? Not likely but Creighton deserves the opportunity if the numbers support it as Nomad says.
I think just about everyone here knows that and wants it for Creighton. CJF wouldn’t be CJF if he wasn’t here bustin’ balls and pointing out that Creighton going or not is no big deal to him as far as team race goes.
One locked up cradle in consolations would have won Big Tens.
RPI is used for Eligibility criteria only. NOT used for Selection criteria.
See the links in Post #2 above. Those are the rules.
So, for example, Wittlake getting an RPI does nothing for his candidacy. He was already eligible, and RPI does not affect selection.
i honestly don't think wittlake should get one. if he does, it's on reputation. he's a shell of himself
Wittlake has worse credentials than most who need an at large. Only 1 win over a AQ, bad winning %, etc. Thankfully, prior year performance does not come into play
I see no shot of him getting in. It’s a complete fiasco if he does.
Agree. Great opportunity for Creighton to create memories to tell his grandkids (ie: participated in NCAA’s and won team Championship). This is his year to play!
Prior year credentials are not among the selection criteria.
One could argue it's embedded within his coaches rank, but that's just one piece of the selection puzzle.
Speaking of Wittlake, any idea what happened to him this year (besides the obvious "cutting too much at OSU")?
he liked a couple tweets saying that he did, so i'm leaning yes. at least a serious injury of some type. he reacted pretty strongly when it happened in the red match. looked like a pop.
After he got took his win for the Semi Mff, he had no problems jogging towards the locker room. Never had a torn acl. Maybe that’s normal.
You can jog on a torn ACL. It's changing directions that makes it hurt.
And it doesn't affect everyone the same way - nor are all tears identical. Some tears can be much more severe, and painful, than others.
He took it like a champ against Red. Walked it off and centered right away. I wasn't watching but heard he reaggravated it against D'Emilio. The more I think about it, I think Brands played a blinking contest with Rutgers and won tbh. Don't think Jaydin was wrestling that night one way or another.
