Really depends on the definition of "good"...if it's one of the big boys, then absolutely (some of the big time schools like Oak Hill, Montverde, IMG, etc would give the schools at the very bottom of D1 men a run for their money in a good year). If it's a decent AA team from Central Pennsylvania, then it's doubtful.
You Go Reilly Gains
- Thread starter Little J
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There is estimated to be no more than 50 trans athletes out of the 200,000 NCAA women athletes.
They all must meet the testosterone level checks established by the Olympics.
The reason that everyone knows the Thomas case is because it is so exceedingly rare for one of those 50 athletes to be a top competitor.
Anyone who is framing this debate as “saving women’s sports” is being disingenuous,
They all must meet the testosterone level checks established by the Olympics.
The reason that everyone knows the Thomas case is because it is so exceedingly rare for one of those 50 athletes to be a top competitor.
Anyone who is framing this debate as “saving women’s sports” is being disingenuous,
I disagree. It’s just begun. CA just passed a law showing the state to treat kids who recognize as trans without telling the parents. And wait until people start to realize they can get full scholarships and the money angle kicks in.
Regardless if it is one , 50 or 5000 we need guidelines
As I pointed out, there is a testosterone guideline. And there is no evidence at this point to indicate that it is an insufficient guideline.
If you issue a ban without proof of harm, it is discrimination.
I was in no way ever a great athlete, I just worked out fairly fast and strong. Played very low level pick up basketball games, and with four friends, we would routinely beat women’s college basketball players.
Only one of my friends actually played high school basketball. He was the number seven guy on a little bit over 500 class a team.
The girls played lower division of college ball for very good high school athletes. We would absolutely murder them. The best player with me, the guy who couldn’t even dribble with his left hand.
I’d go deep they throw me the ball I’d miss one or two laps in the score, rinse, and repeat. It’s amazing when a guy like me who is 57 could go up and walk to shots of a 6 foot three woman.
Take a pretty decent hi school boys basketball team and they would be the best team in the WNBA easily.
Discrimination? Keeping a guy from playing a woman’s sport is not discrimination. The only successful lawsuits in these types of cases are when a female wants to play a sport and the sport isn’t available so she gets to play on the boys team. In these cases the person has the option to play on the boys team, so there’s no discrimination.
Remember a 15U boys soccer club team from Dallas beat the women’s US national team 5-2 in a scrimmage
You may not like it but courts have already determined that bans targeting trans athletes are discriminatory. See USA Powerlifting case.
If testosterone or other guidelines prove to be insufficient, I suspect that will change.
First I've heard of testosterone guidelines so I did a quick google search and found the below advocating for trans athletes. The guidelines are in place for some states, but not most. None in PA from the article linked.
I don't believe it is discrimination. I am very sympathetic to trans but the constitution discusses gender. If gender is simply what you believe, there is no discrimination. Anyone can claim to be gay, trans, pan or whatever. Not only is there no way to provide protection, but you also erode protections in place for females. And I think that is the point. I wish nothing but the best for trans people. But we have to recognize the cost.
And to the point of there being "only 50 people," that argument cuts both ways. Why are states and federal legislators tying up valuable time arguing about 50 people? Makes no sense.
To be clear, I respect your opinion I just disagree.
TRANSATHLETE High school transgender athlete policies
High school policies for transgender athletes.
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How could anyone forget...it's one of the most overplayed storylines I've ever heard.
It may be sometimes be overplayed but in this thread it's right on point.
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Lmao, can't swim. Nothing like a bunch of male wannabes competing against women. Yeah, Riley can't swim. WTH has happened to this nation.
Riley Gaines' Speech Draws Dozens Of Supporters & Protestors To HUB Lawn
Riley Gaines addressed a crowd of about 150 students and community members Tuesday on HUB Lawn for "X/X Day," a social media movement to recognize biological females.onwardstate.com
Yeah, I don't really support PSU much anymore. I watch the games on TV, but will not visit campus and spend money up there.
I'm curious, what do you think about a biological male dominating a sport like cross country for example when competing vs all biological females? You okay with that? Now suppose you had a daughter who competed in cross country and was the best in the state....but 2 runners are faster and they are biological males that slip under the testosterone level. So I guess it is what it is, right, all good? But when your daughter is confused and frustrated and disappointed by it all, what do you do? That's just the way it is and it is fair and square? God I hope you would not be that way, you would fight like hell to stand up for your daughter in the name of fair and equitable competition.
You cannot bioengineer a male body to replicate a female body. Impossible. People want you to believe that so they concoct this testosterone metric to pacify the blind sheep. If you question it and stand up for the rights of female athletes you are discriminating. What a crock of horse sh##. The world we live in is totally effed up.
Exactly right ryoder1. Testosterone level alone is an inadequate metric if the biological male "transitioned" after puberty. At that point there are other differences such as height, bone structure, etc. which confer an advantage in most sports And individuals who have not yet gone through puberty are incapable of making informed "transition" decisions because their brains are not yet fully formed, There is no legitimate road for biological males to compete on an equal footing with women in most sports once they have reached puberty. The science is undeniable.
I would even question before puberty. How can you control for all the genetic intricacies of the human body and somehow make a male be a female? You can't tell me an 8 year old male decides he wants to be a female and then doctors start to "feminize" his body then it is all good when he is 14? He has become a girl in essence? Not buying it. Biological males are fundamentally different then biological females. Our founding fathers would be flabbergasted knowing we now are having this debate.
Well, how many classes of testosterone do we end up with? 2, 5, 10, 100? As soon as you say "3", someone is going to yell that they need five.
There are lots of differences between males and females other than testosterone. This all is simply insanity and the people pushing it think there will come a day when everybody just accepts that biological males can play against biological females. They are mistaken. This will never, ever, ever be accepted and the more it is pushed by The Establishment, the more it makes people distrust The Establishment, and the people have enough reason to distrust The Establishment already.
By definition, every biological male playing in a female sport is taking the spot of a biological woman.
Tell me something, why is it that trans women (biological men that decide they want to be women) can play against biological women, but other men can't. Is there ANY justification for that? Saying that trans women (biological men) can play against biological women but other biological men cannot makes exactly as much sense as saying left handed biological men can play against biological women but right handed men cannot. It is totally, completely arbitrary.
If you want to say, well, after they take their transitioning hormones or whatever, their advantage vs. biological women is lessened then okay, let's let men that have had a serious knee injury play against biological women too because after all, they're not as good after they have a serious knee injury.
Will Thomas was ranked 460th among the college men. Then Will Thomas became Lia Thomas. Then Lia Thomas was ranked 1st among college women. Read that over and over until it sinks in.
Every man that transitions to woman will be ranked higher among the women than they were among the men. And every woman that transitions to man will be ranked lower among the men than they were among the women. Every. Single. Time. It's the reason why we have separate mens and womens competitions in the first place.
Right on, 100% agree!!
My son runs cross country. A good sport to use as an example. Basically the top runners in the state in the "girls" division are biological boys who say they are girls. Furthermore, the race results at a major invitational last weekend tells all you need to know. The first place finisher in the elite girls race (excluding the trans gender male/female that may be running) would have finished 152nd out of 188 runners in the elite boys race. Even the lowest
Biological girls cannot compete against biological boys who say they are now a girl. No matter when they said they were a girl as in pre-puberty and started reducing their testosterone years ago. It does not matter. You cannot hide or bioengineer away the inherent advantage these biological males have. It is in their DNA. In their body, bones, muscles, nervous system, cardiovascular system, on and on and on. These people think they are God and can simply change the human body.
My son runs cross country. A good sport to use as an example. Basically the top runners in the state in the "girls" division are biological boys who say they are girls. Furthermore, the race results at a major invitational last weekend tells all you need to know. The first place finisher in the elite girls race (excluding the trans gender male/female that may be running) would have finished 152nd out of 188 runners in the elite boys race. Even the lowest
Biological girls cannot compete against biological boys who say they are now a girl. No matter when they said they were a girl as in pre-puberty and started reducing their testosterone years ago. It does not matter. You cannot hide or bioengineer away the inherent advantage these biological males have. It is in their DNA. In their body, bones, muscles, nervous system, cardiovascular system, on and on and on. These people think they are God and can simply change the human body.
Something akin to a decent 6A equivalent PA school.
The point is, the physiological differences between males and females is large.
The Left needs to accept that they have made a massive miscalculation pushing the transgender agenda. Society will never accept biological men decimating women's sports, boys using girls bathrooms/locker rooms, children being coached to change their gender without parental knowledge, taxpayers footing the bill for elective "gender reassignment" surgery etc. It is insanity. You can't deny truth.
If an adult wants to mutilate their body and be dependent on powerful medications the rest of their life, that is their prerogative. But don't expect the rest of us to fund their folly or live in their fairy tale. Our empathy and tolerance only go so far. I have a relative who went the surgery route and is now confined to a wheelchair because of all the after effects.
If an adult wants to mutilate their body and be dependent on powerful medications the rest of their life, that is their prerogative. But don't expect the rest of us to fund their folly or live in their fairy tale. Our empathy and tolerance only go so far. I have a relative who went the surgery route and is now confined to a wheelchair because of all the after effects.
I played with two pro players 20 years ago when CLE had a team. they showed up at a local gym where Elho and Steve Kerr used to play a lot. They would easily have been beaten by just about any high school male team. As a group of 30-ish guys all around 6 feet tall, it wasn't close. In fact, embarrassing. They had no way to rule the paint at all.
I was just looking at the Las Vegas Aces is one of the best teams. their tallest player is 6-4. One, Alainna Coates, is listed at 225 lbs. If this gal is 225 than I am 440 lbs. My bet is that she is closer to 190. The next largest one is A'ja Wilson who is listed as 6-4 and 195. That sounds more like it but I'll bet she's closer to 180. I'll post two photos, first of the one that claims to be 6-4 225 and the second 6-4 195.
I will say that their skill set is very high in terms of shot making and ball handling. But just don't compete physically.
secondary comment....the longest driver on the PGA tour is Rory who is averaging 326 per drive. The LPGA leader is Polly Mack at 281. That is a 14% difference.
The average for LPGA has been in the 252 to 256 (weather, locations, and other things can affect this). The PGA tour is 296 yards (2021).
The average for LPGA has been in the 252 to 256 (weather, locations, and other things can affect this). The PGA tour is 296 yards (2021).
Excellent point. Which begs the question or highlights a reality, why / how does such a minority dominate policy against overwhelming logic?
Great question. Any sane person does not want a biological male competing with women (and dominating) nor using the women's bathroom/lockeroom. It is all about not offending anyone but they have offended the vast majority.
The data says Thomas, after the required hormone therapy, was not close to being elite.
Why the data shows trans swimming champion Lia Thomas didn’t have an unfair advantage
The NCAA champion has sparked controversy and become a hate figure among conservatives, but statistics show little evidence that she performed any differently to other women, Io Dodds reports
www.independent.co.uk
All that proves is that a mediocre male swimmer is good enough to be a NCAA champion in women’s sports.The data says Thomas, after the required hormone therapy, was not close to being elite.
Why the data shows trans swimming champion Lia Thomas didn’t have an unfair advantage
The NCAA champion has sparked controversy and become a hate figure among conservatives, but statistics show little evidence that she performed any differently to other women, Io Dodds reports
She was much, much better against women than she was against men. How much better isn't the point. She was #460 vs the men and but won a title vs the women. Converting to female increased her chances, and it decreased the chances of the other women in the race because Lia Thomas had the advantage of being a biological male and the other women in the race did not.The data says Thomas, after the required hormone therapy, was not close to being elite.
Why the data shows trans swimming champion Lia Thomas didn’t have an unfair advantage
The NCAA champion has sparked controversy and become a hate figure among conservatives, but statistics show little evidence that she performed any differently to other women, Io Dodds reports
Lia Thomas is a biological male. That disqualifies her from competing against biological women, regardless of how well she could do or did do or would do. Women's sports are for biological women and Lia Thomas isn't one.
I wouldn't do well if I competed against biological college women in swim races but that doesn't mean I should be able to compete against them. If Lia Thomas can compete against biological women in college races then why can't people not even college compete against women in college races too? BECAUSE THEY'RE NOT IN COLLEGE, just like LIA THOMAS IS NOT A BIOLOGICAL WOMAN.
The university of Maryland uses men to practice against their women’s team. The men that are on this team or not any type of recruited high school basketball player. Maybe a couple of them were all conference or some thing, but they’re just average high school basketball players and they would beat the women’s team every single day at practice.I played with two pro players 20 years ago when CLE had a team. they showed up at a local gym where Elho and Steve Kerr used to play a lot. They would easily have been beaten by just about any high school male team. As a group of 30-ish guys all around 6 feet tall, it wasn't close. In fact, embarrassing. They had no way to rule the paint at all.
I was just looking at the Las Vegas Aces is one of the best teams. their tallest player is 6-4. One, Alainna Coates, is listed at 225 lbs. If this gal is 225 than I am 440 lbs. My bet is that she is closer to 190. The next largest one is A'ja Wilson who is listed as 6-4 and 195. That sounds more like it but I'll bet she's closer to 180. I'll post two photos, first of the one that claims to be 6-4 225 and the second 6-4 195.
I will say that their skill set is very high in terms of shot making and ball handling. But just don't compete physically.
Penn State does the same thing. They pick guys from pick up games in the IM building to scrimmage against the women's teams. Even during the heyday of PSU women's hoops, it was usually a slaughter when they did a full scrimmage.
We just need science to make the call, not the pseudo science that permeates some soft science disciplines but real science. The real science is remarkably clear. Gender and biological sex are not the same thing but gender is so tightly coupled to biology that they are essentially the same thing is almost every scenario. Scientifically speaking, gender identity is the social construct whereas gender as it is traditionally known, is science as it is derived from biology and evolution.
The article claims to be data based, and is, to a certain extent, but completely ignores a lot of data that would place the data they use in context. The gist of the article is that Thomas did not have unfair advantage because there are still women faster than her. It ignores the data that shows that William Thomas was a bad intercollegiate swimmer whose performance was nowhere what was needed to qualify for NCAA championship competition much less make finals and win. The fact that there are ten of thousands of men that he could beat in the pool doesn't change fact that on the intercollegiate level he was near the bottom. That Lia Thomas qualified for women's nationals, made the finals in more than one event, and won one two seasons after being totally non-competitive as a male is a data point that can't be ignored. That she wasn't that far off her times as a male also can't be ignored
The Venn diagram of were born male and:
- elect to go through a year of HRT
- meet NCAA testosterone guidelines
- are athletic enough to play college sports
- are disciplined enough to keep going in spite of much negativity
- and win an event
..is Lia Thomas.
And as the article says, 27 NCAA records were set at the last women’s finals. None were set by Thomas.
Comments about ‘saving women’s sports’ is nonsense.
- elect to go through a year of HRT
- meet NCAA testosterone guidelines
- are athletic enough to play college sports
- are disciplined enough to keep going in spite of much negativity
- and win an event
..is Lia Thomas.
And as the article says, 27 NCAA records were set at the last women’s finals. None were set by Thomas.
Comments about ‘saving women’s sports’ is nonsense.
Because they control academia. Hollywood/entertainment industry and the media outlets .
Gives them huge control over the discussion.
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