Words are wind - especially Coach Franklin’s
- Thread starter ShoreLion85
- Start date
We're 5-0 guys and 10th in the country. The handwringing about Franklin is typically fair but the timing and length of this thread is becoming strange. Fine to not like Franklin(im conflicted myself), but again, we are 5-0 and maybe should support the team and coach this weekend. Let's try a touch of positivity for a change
And.....no matter what 9 more years! So much fun to watch the suffering of the misanthropes.
Yes of course we want to win and win a NC. So do about 25 schools who all think they have the resources to make a 4 team playoff. We have underperformed the last 2 years.
You are misunderstanding my CEO comment. It was in response to people that only believe wins and losses is the only metric, nothing else matters. So if you are hiring a CEO do you only focus on their track record of profit growth even if they are a terrible people manager? Yes, JF is more like a CEO than a nuts and bolts ball coach but that is beside the point. On your question if I "will tout the CEO stuff" if we don't win a natty in the next 5 years? Not sure, kind of a loaded question. Will I fire Franklin if we don't win one, no unless we have had crappy seasons like 4 and 5 losses. Will I be dissatisfied and feel we have not met "expectations"? Yeah, given how we have recruited and assumes we still are recruiting at a top 10 level. Although, I will always believe the other CEO factors such as program organization, running a clean program, graduation rates, building a culture, having a vision, strong media awareness and relations, etc is crucially important for the PSU head football coach.
On the point of expectations, I don't think making the playoff every couple of years (I take that as every other year) is reasonable with the current 4 team setup. I would say every 3 years. O$U is not slowing down and will beat us 2 out of 3 years on average. I am fine beating them one of three until we recruit at their level. The point is moot because we are moving to a 12 team playoff and under those circumstances I would say we should make the playoff 4 out of 5 years.
On to the point about other coaches to compare vs Franklin, why is that lazy? It is a valid input and consideration when evaluating your expectations. If few good alternatives exist then that factors into your expectations. In other words, if Franklin is the best person we can get but you are dissatisfied then your expectations are unreasonable. Of course that assumes he is winning at a good clip. For example, let's say in the 12 team playoff set up we only make the playoff 2 out of 5 years. We could consider a coaching change but you have to look at the landscape and assess if there is someone out there who could get us to making it 4 out of 5 years. If there is no one do you still can Franklin because he is not hitting the goal? That doesn't make sense but you could "hoping" the new guy brings fresh energy and gets us to the goal but it is very risky, the old "grass is greener on the other side". Clearly if we are not making the playoff in any year then he needs to go.
I think 10 regular season wins should be our baseline. However I would expect an 11-1 and 12-0 sprinkled in there every 2 or 3 years, not sure what cadence to that is most appropriate. As for a natty, yes we need to win one probably every 5 years especially if we make a 12 team playoff 4 out of 5 years.
Appreciate the well thought out and thorough reply...good stuff. I agree with much of what you said. Your last graph especially with the baseline being 10 wins. I'm sure you're well aware with some posters on here that give off the tone how 8-9 wins as rebuild works for them...at PSU, that's embarrassing IMO.
Without going too long into this....based on the "rebuild" thought process and what that should look like. It's all subjective and a matter of opinion -- not really a right or wrong.
Also based on a lot of selective memory about where this program has been the past 30 years. Years with 8 or 9 wins (or less) have been frequent in those years.
I am more optimistic than you about this coming week at UM because of Diaz's defense and Yurich finally putting Cliffford under center and running some I formation so our poor rbs can finally shine. Otherwise, I agree with you. Talk is cheap. JF is big on hype but little on actual results. I truly hope he breaks his post by-week collapse tendency this week.
Again, we have been in nasty downhill skid since that Citrus Bowl debacle against Kentucky in 2018. He has a TON to prove to us that he is an elite coach! Just in this conference, I would rank Day, Harbaugh, Bielema, PJ & Ferentz and Schiano ahead of Franklin as a gameday coach (Thank God that dbag D'Antonio retired at MSU because he also could humiliate Franklin at will and unfortunately did on numerous occasion much to our chagrin!). Time to put up or shut up Frankie!!! This is a very winnable game. UM is nowhere near the killa team they were last year. Let's see what you are made off Franklin! Just WIN BABY!!!
We would be crushing it with Mullen or Schiano as HC. You get elite QB and offensive play with Mullen and elite Defense and ST with Schiano. With Franklin we get average everything and hence our position as a middle of the pack Big 10 team.
You realize that Franklin is neither OC nor DC, right?
So if you don't like the QB play, blame the QB coach/OC.
And if you don't like the defense, blame the DC.
Or you can claim that Franklin doesn't hire good assistants but I think that is a pretty ridiculous statement.
I prefer a coach that is good a something and known for being elite position/DC/OC coach. call me crazy but I am not a fan of the CEO generalist coach. I love watching Mullen's QBs and offense run. I love watching Schiano's D swarm to the ball like the old PSU Ds. I like a HC that can take over one side of the ball and excel at an elite level. Franklin ain't known for coaching anything at the elite level.
This is functionally a bad idea. Recall when O'Brien called his own plays that he had major issues juggling that with other things he needed to be paying attention to (e.g. interacting with the officials).
Schiano is fine, but is not a HC of the quality that PSU needs.
We can and should do better than a baseline of 8-9 wins. No doubt.
Talent from recruiting is high enough to convert to 10 wins. Who out recruits us that we play? O$U and sometimes scUM. Based off that we should win 10.
Fans here act like we cant compete with the Michigans and Ohio States. Such a loser mentality. Hell we have an advantage over Mich that we dont have another Big Ten school in the state in MSU. So tired of the loser mentality. We have never made the playoff, its pathetic for a program like ours. We should be playoff or bust, at least until we make the playoff 1 time. Thats not a lot to ask.
We have been terrible the last couple of years and have still have a great 2023 recruiting class. Imagine if we actually made the playoff.
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Schiano's defense was certainly not elite @ Ohio State. They gladly let him walk.
There must be 30 fan bases that think their team should be "playoff or bust" on a regular basis. Unfortunately, there are only about three or four programs built to that level that have the right situation per season. This year those would be Bama, Georgia, OSU and Clemson.
Based on your criteria we’ve been terrible for 30 years. We haven’t been an “elite” program since 1994 or basically since we joined the Big 10. So why should expectations be so much higher nowadays?
Currently 5-0. How many more games did you want them to win? This team is primed for the future.
Top 10 talent, coach with $80 mill contract. Many of the past 30 years were with an aging Paterno or sanction burden years.
How many teams have? A baker's dozen out of 131?
There are a lot of good programs who have not made it as yet (Florida, Texas, A&M, USC, etc). That will improve with the 12 team expansion.
Send me a link so I can see Mullen's streak of 11+ win teams, and playoff success.
Schiano as well. Elite defense? When? Where?
How can one prop up anything either of these 2 have done yet denigrate anything Franklin has done at PSU.
103 - 61
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Your joking right????? Schiano left when Urban got fired and they gave job to Day. Day would have gladly kept him on. Their defense hasn't been as strong since Greg left. Just to let you know, when he decided to leave OSU, Schiano's first two calls came from Nick Saban offering him the Alabama DC job and Bill Belichick offering him the Patriots DC job. That is MAD RESPECT for your abilities!! You think if Franklin was fired his first two call would be from Nick Saban and Bill Belichick. LOL!!!!! Me thinks maybe Furman would give him a call!
So what was the disconnect that led to Schiano bowing out of the Patriots job before he even rated combine numbers for prospects? Just seems weird.
Ol Urban could recruit defensive players now. He was better at that than Day. Are we really going to attribute that to Schiano and his schemes? He's good, but he's only great when he's got top 3 talent.
And you think PSU will not be referined? We have been screwed more by the Big10 than all other teams combined.
Expect that to continue. By just exactly as much needed to preserve the Michigan win.
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We've never played more freshman ever before. I would say we're primed for the future.
“Deserve” is funny word to use. So what have WE done to deserve a better football team? Buy tickets and paraphernalia?
"Deserve" is the wrong word. "Expect" is more accurate.
Like the woodcut sig, I have a copy in Bracewell's book The Galactic Club
It’s time for Franklin to produce I agree. The scandal put us back a decade easy. You need elite to want to play at PSU.
Young team, not an excuse just a fact. Great young players ….
My view Is 2 years from now if still no Big Ten championship fire him.
You were saying? 2 weeks to prepare, and thoroughly humiliated by one of the 2 teams that matter to our season. UM didn’t have to punt for Pete’s sake. Franklin is not a good coach - and proves it every time we’re on the road in-conference. 3rd time we’ve been destroyed by Harbaugh at the big house.
Ironic? Perfectly accurate would be the better description - talks a big game, team completely unprepared and then quits in the 2nd half. That performance was an embarrassment to the program. He’s 4-13 vs UM and OSU, and will most likely be 4-14 in about 2 weeks. That is absolutely horrid. The new AD isn’t a fan of Franklin, and nor should he be. Today, you saw why.
I hate to agree with the premise of this thread ..................but spot on . CJF will admit he is accountable to any of this? Take the money and run . Considering the college football coaching standards , he should be bought out and fired tomorrow . We have been duped .
