What exactly are MAGA proposals that are destroying our country?

KnightWhoSaysNit

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Jul 19, 2010
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So you can't name one policy?

LOL.... You and @chubbyqueen deserve each other. Both boomer idiots.

It's amazing. When I first heard people use terms like Deep State, Fake News, and TDS I thought it was something silly. It was bizarre that respectable people would use them. Turns out those things are very real. I had no idea.

The public is clearly brainwashed. They don't even understand what they are complaining about. It's all believe what the MSM tells them and follow the leader, right over the cliff.

This thread is proof. They have come up with nothing but symptoms of TDS.

How do we move forward when it is impossible to discuss the important issues of our day?
 
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m.knox

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It's amazing. When I first heard people use terms like Deep State, Fake News, and TDS I thought it was something silly. It was bizarre that respectable people would use them. Turns out those things are very real. I had no idea.

The public is clearly brainwashed. They don't even understand what they are complaining about. It's all believe what the MSM tells them and follow the leader, right over the cliff.

This thread is proof. They have come up with nothing but symptoms of TDS.

How do we move forward when it is impossible to discuss the important issues of our day?

Correction, some of the public is clearly brainwashed.

I used to enjoy Good Morning America, then they became part of the cult. Strangely, they have a genuine bully on their staff and no one calls him out.


Democrats cannot debate issues because all they have is emotions.
 
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ChiTownLion

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Wrong. Oath keepers and/or Proud Boys had looked for fights in DC on previous occasions. Pelosi does not control the National guard.

Old man shakes his fist at cloud... and The Proud Boys and Oath Keepers.

latest

 
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Zukovski

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Nov 7, 2004
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Some of the MAGA proposals are simply the difference between the Republican and Democratic point of view. I might “fight” our differences, that is the way our democracy is set up. Having an honest debate over issues is okay and keeps both sides honest.
what is absolutely not okay is the MAGA effort to discredit our elections, demonize our institutions , the cult of personality that has taken over the Republican Party and the Trump “grift.” Trump has created and amplified our distrust of institutions and surrounded himself with felons like Steve Bannon, Roger Stone, Paul Manafort and others. Trump is at the center of multiple criminal investigations. Instead of the MAGA crowd honestly looking at this singularly bad guy and taking their political support somewhere else, they have doubled down and either accepted or apologized for his bullshit. And they continue to send him money (the grift) which he hoards for himself.
BTW, I’ve done this myself with the Clintons. I support most of their policies, but I’m done with them as far as being government leaders. Their time has passed. They’ve done some good, but also some bad. They’ve been caught and their time is over.
The latest example is the classified/government documents fiasco. There is absolutely no justification for Trump taking classified documents and keeping them in his desk drawer in his country club., disregarding subpoenas and lying to the government. Trumps response is to blame the FBI and call them names. And bizarrely many MAGA republicans have taken his side. Not even Bill Barr, Andrew McCarthy, John Bolton or Karl Rove can defend Trumps actions.
Jasun, you've conveniently forgotten how the libs all called Trump an illegitimate president because of Russian collusion. Also, when the total votes tallied is 2.5 million more than voters registered perhaps there should be some complaints. As for criminal investigations, where do we start with the pristine lefties? The aforementioned Clintons are well known "beyond " the law but then we have the Biden Crime Family, complete with Hunter's laptop, Pelosi's insider trading and on and on. Without crime there wouldn't be a democratic party. The classified papers "fiasco" hasn't been resolved as of now but I have to believe if the FBI had anything it would be out by now. Btw, the documents were not in a desk drawer but in a safe.
 

Hotshoe

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$400 billion over our pre covid budget. That is 1/11 of the pre covid budget. Welfare related spending comes down. Much of the $400 billion comes back as revenue.

I dare you to explain how thew deficit has hurt us. ??? I used to fear the deficit but we all should have learned a small increase in the debt does not hurt us. We should have learned that R's for all their B.S. don't reduce deficits..
I honestly cannot believe what you wrote.
 
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Hotshoe

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I’ll be honest. I cannot separate MAGA from Donald Trump. Trump is doing his best to destroy our country.
He's clearly destroyed your mind, that's for damn sure. You're infatuated with Trump. You never can say what great things Biden has done. Well, of course, he hasn't done any and all he does is lie. Hell, he can't even find the exit. Face it, you sacrificed your country for party and elected and mentally compromised racist. Congratulations.
 
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KnightWhoSaysNit

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He's clearly destroyed your mind, that's for damn sure. You're infatuated with Trump. You never can say what great things Biden has done. Well, of course, he hasn't done any and all he does is lie. Hell, he can't even find the exit. Face it, you sacrificed your country for party and elected and mentally compromised racist. Congratulations.

Some people have watched so much MSNBC that their minds are totally consumed by Trump-hate.

This prevents them from seeing anything clearly.

You can ask them all day what the democrats have done that is "good" and they will come up with nothing that can't be explained by printing money and creating inflation.

So in summary, their claim to fame is .... inflation. All they can do is try to deflect the narrative towards Trump.

I challenge any of them to come up with something that is counter to what I just wrote.
 

Catch50

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Feb 5, 2003
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I honestly cannot believe what you wrote.
That's a long article that does not address the issue succinctly.

Explain to me why for much of the last forty years, employment has been pretty good and interest rates low despite all the debt? Trust me when I say I am uncomfortable with the debt but neither Republicans or Democrats are going to get it down. Our best bet is to keep yearly deficits as low as possible, but we cannot accept high unemployment. Which by itself leads to lower tax collection thus high deficits.
 

Hotshoe

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Feb 15, 2012
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Only the CIC has control of the DC National Guard because DC is not a State. The Speaker of the House also has no control over the DC or other National Guard units. The National Guard is the 'Well Regulated Militia' set forth in the 2nd Amendment and further defined in the Militia Statutes passed in 1792 and 1793. The POTUS has the ultimate control of the National Guard.
You're mostly right, except that, Capital Police declined the need for the National Guard. The request goes through the DOD, not the president.
 
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Hotshoe

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That's a long article that does not address the issue succinctly.

Explain to me why for much of the last forty years, employment has been pretty good and interest rates low despite all the debt? Trust me when I say I am uncomfortable with the debt but neither Republicans or Democrats are going to get it down. Our best bet is to keep yearly deficits as low as possible, but we cannot accept high unemployment. Which by itself leads to lower tax collection thus high deficits.
It absolutely explains it. If you understood economics, you'd know that. I specifically showed you how. Maybe you should have read it. It's not Bush league bullsh&t, it's from Carnegie Mellon.
 
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Catch50

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It absolutely explains it. If you understood economics, you'd know that. I specifically showed you how. Maybe you should have read it. It's not Bush league bullsh&t, it's from Carnegie Mellon.
Far better people than Carnegie Mellon have gotten it wrong. You didn't explain why interest rates were very low for the last twenty years although the debt has risen high. ????
 
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psuted

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Recounts are a type of audit. All recounts and audits have come to the same conclusion - there was no voter fraud in 2020 sufficient to change the outcome of any state or overall.
Democrats cheated and there was in fact massive Democrat voter fraud.
 

Hotshoe

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Why do so many folks forget that DC Mayor Muriel Browser sent a letter to both the Attorney General and the Secretary of Defense on 1/5, specifically stating, the Metropolitan Police Department is prepared for 1/6. Furthermore, MPD has coordinated with the Capitol Police, the US Park Service, and the Secret Service.

The District of Columbia has not requested any further federal law enforcement agencies.

To be clear, the District of Columbia is not requesting other federal law enforcement personnel and DISCOURAGES additional deployment without immediate notification to, and consultation with Metro Police Department if such plans ARE underway. Metro Police Department is well trained and prepared to lead law enforcement, coordination, and response.

These are the exact words from DC Mayor, Muriel Bowser.

Furthermore, the Chief of Capitol Police specifically stated, the Seargant-at-Arms, Paul Irving, was concerned with the optics.

Some here are absolutely clueless over their damn party. Their ignorance is beyond laughable.
 
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Hotshoe

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Far better people than Carnegie Mellon have gotten it wrong. You didn't explain why interest rates were very for the last twenty years although the debt has risen high. ????
I'm not explaining anything else to you. You asked and I specifically showed you how. I do not get gaslighted by folks that have no clue regarding the economy and economics.
 
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Hotshoe

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I'm not explaining anything else to you. You asked and I specifically showed you how. I do not get gaslighted by folks that have no clue regarding the economy and economics.
This is my last comment as you believe 20 years is a long time. Interest rates are skyrocketing.


 
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psuted

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Trump loves to be kept in the news - he thrives on it. He has already hinted he is going to run again in 2024. He also is on the road constantly endorsing candidates.
Trump 2024! Great news, hope it’s true.
 

psuted

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I’ll be honest. I cannot separate MAGA from Donald Trump. Trump is doing his best to destroy our country.
Potato and the Democrats are doing their best to destroy this country and certainly not Trump. The proof is more than apparent as people are living this Democrat manufactured economic pain.
 
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Catch50

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I'm not explaining anything else to you. You asked and I specifically showed you how. I do not get gaslighted by folks that have no clue regarding the economy and economics.
I did not get a Master's degree in Economics to gaslight anybody.

The truth is interest rates have been low for many years. Despite the high debt, this is so because dollars out of the hands of the government in the form of debt, there is plenty of money in bank accounts of individuals and businesses. And in the stock market. Therefore, there has NOT been a shortage of funds for any business to invest for any project which has shown a realistic chance of making a profit. It's that simple.
 

KnightWhoSaysNit

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That's a long article that does not address the issue succinctly.

Explain to me why for much of the last forty years, employment has been pretty good and interest rates low despite all the debt? Trust me when I say I am uncomfortable with the debt but neither Republicans or Democrats are going to get it down. Our best bet is to keep yearly deficits as low as possible, but we cannot accept high unemployment. Which by itself leads to lower tax collection thus high deficits.

Deficit spending created inflation (this time) because it produced an imbalance between supply and demand.

Demand: Increased by flooding the economy with dollars at a massive, unprecedented level in a short period of time.

Supply: Cut while increasing the money supply: Here are some of the things that hurt productivity/supply:
  • People can retire/quit as a result of being handed money through the various ways associated with QE. This creates holes in the workforce, so supply is slowed for lack of labor.
  • Energy production discouraged/restricted. Businesses must pay higher costs.
  • People laid off for non-compliance with Covid mandates.
  • Crime. Businesses closed directly (by damage) or indirectly (out of fear).
  • People less skilled produce less. (The best employees have the most money. They retire.)
  • Lower crop yields due to lost fertilizer production and drought.
  • War in Ukraine putting pressure on food production and energy.
  • OPEC now deciding to cut production in advance of expected stagflation.
  • Democrat tax increases (coming) will hurt supply.
  • Pressure on the supply of services as illegal immigrants flood into the country.
  • Productivity losses associated with drug use (and deaths).
  • A marginal increase in debt payments as the total debt grows per GDP. To combat inflation this now spirals to become a greater influence as time goes by. This is why inflation is only going to get worse until debt/GDP starts decreasing, and that can happen only by cutting public spending.
In general, the deficit spending driven by the Trump tax cuts increased the private sector economy because it was money that was generated by real production, i.e., a tax cut is a net increase for the productive portion of the economy. People keep money they earned -- money that comes from production. If government generates deficit spending by simply increasing public spending (what happened during the pandemic) then the private sector productivity does not get the same benefit. Some of that dollars get shaved off -- a lot if the spending produces nothing, or a little if it goes into something that raises GDP. Note that infrastructure spending (that which you hold dear) has a long term impact on GDP. In the near term it makes inflation worse. This is why, even for marginal increases in infrastructure spending, some other type of spending should get cut to the same degree or larger.

On balance, Dems are doing the opposite of what Trump did, and we can see the result (inflation followed by stagflation and then probably a depression). Guess what happens if the world stops taking dollars .... yep, even more pressure on inflation until we can grow US capacity. This won't happen without an overall decline in living standards.

Most government spending does not grow US capacity, and that is why it is inflationary.
 
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Catch50

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Feb 5, 2003
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Deficit spending created inflation (this time) because it produced an imbalance between supply and demand.

Demand: Increased by flooding the economy with dollars at a massive, unprecedented level in a short period of time.

Supply: Cut while increasing the money supply: Here are some of the things that hurt productivity/supply:
  • People can retire/quit as a result of being handed money through the various ways associated with QE. This creates holes in the workforce, so supply is slowed for lack of labor.
  • Energy production discouraged/restricted. Businesses must pay higher costs.
  • People laid off for non-compliance with Covid mandates.
  • Crime. Businesses closed directly (by damage) or indirectly (out of fear).
  • People less skilled produce less. (The best employees have the most money. They retire.)
  • Lower crop yields due to lost fertilizer production and drought.
  • War in Ukraine putting pressure on food production and energy.
  • OPEC now deciding to cut production in advance of expected stagflation.
  • Democrat tax increases (coming) will hurt supply.
  • Pressure on the supply of services as illegal immigrants flood into the country.
  • Productivity losses associated with drug use (and deaths).
  • A marginal increase in debt payments as the total debt grows per GDP. To combat inflation this now spirals to become a greater influence as time goes by. This is why inflation is only going to get worse until debt/GDP starts decreasing, and that can happen only by cutting public spending.
In general, the deficit spending driven by the Trump tax cuts increased the private sector economy because it was money that was generated by real production, i.e., a tax cut is a net increase for the productive portion of the economy. People keep money they earned -- money that comes from production. If government generates deficit spending by simply increasing public spending (what happened during the pandemic) then the private sector productivity does not get the same benefit. Some of that dollars get shaved off -- a lot if the spending produces nothing, or a little if it goes into something that raises GDP. Note that infrastructure spending (that which you hold dear) has a long term impact on GDP. In the near term it makes inflation worse. This is why, even for marginal increases in infrastructure spending, some other type of spending should get cut to the same degree or larger.

On balance, Dems are doing the opposite of what Trump did, and we can see the result (inflation followed by stagflation and then probably a depression). Guess what happens if the world stops taking dollars .... yep, even more pressure on inflation until we can grow US capacity. This won't happen without an overall decline in living standards.

Most government spending does not grow US capacity, and that is why it is inflationary.
Most government spending does NOT grow capacity. But infrastructure investment does. It helps companies get raw materials and workers to their plants and get product out the door. I don't agree with much of Biden's stimulus and Biden relief. Especially EVs, charging stations, etc. Nobody knew how bad covid was going to be. If not for much of the covid relief, unemployment would be unacceptably high. We should be able to agree on these points.
 

Jason1743

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Jan 23, 2006
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Jasun, you've conveniently forgotten how the libs all called Trump an illegitimate president because of Russian collusion. Also, when the total votes tallied is 2.5 million more than voters registered perhaps there should be some complaints. As for criminal investigations, where do we start with the pristine lefties? The aforementioned Clintons are well known "beyond " the law but then we have the Biden Crime Family, complete with Hunter's laptop, Pelosi's insider trading and on and on. Without crime there wouldn't be a democratic party. The classified papers "fiasco" hasn't been resolved as of now but I have to believe if the FBI had anything it would be out by now. Btw, the documents were not in a desk drawer but in a safe.
Yes, there was Democratic complaining about the 2016 election in the immediate aftermath of the election. VP Biden wasn’t lobbied to change the electoral vote count. The Capitol wasn’t attacked. They didn’t push false sets of electors. They didn’t spend the next two years claiming the election was rigged.
ANYONE other than Donald Trump would have been indicted a long time ago if they had handled classified documents like Trump. BTW, most of the documents were in a locked room. Some were in his desk draw.
 

Catch50

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Feb 5, 2003
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This is my last comment as you believe 20 years is a long time. Interest rates are skyrocketing.


20 years is a good start for understanding the economics.

I do NOT agree with Powell increasing the interest rates.
We do not need that to get inflation under control.
 

Jason1743

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Jan 23, 2006
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Potato and the Democrats are doing their best to destroy this country and certainly not Trump. The proof is more than apparent as people are living this Democrat manufactured economic pain.
You don’t like Biden policies. I get it. I will posit that there are global forces at play that are negatively affecting the entire world. We have our problems, but our economy is in better shape than most, if not all, the Western world.
Inflation, or even a recession, will not destroy our country. Trump’s attacks on our electoral process, our institutions , the rule of law and fanning the flames of division are risks to our democracy.
 
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Jason1743

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20 years is a good start for understanding the economics.

I do NOT agree with Powell increasing the interest rates.
We do not need that to get inflation under control.
I do believe inflation is a long term economic problem for our economy. I do believe Powell has been a lousy fed chairman. I think he waited too long to increase interest rates and now is forced to ratchet them up too quickly.
 

Catch50

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I do believe inflation is a long term economic problem for our economy. I do believe Powell has been a lousy fed chairman. I think he waited too long to increase interest rates and now is forced to ratchet them up too quickly.
Inflation is a problem. But in my humble opinion it is due to commodity and labor prices. There are some things we can do in these areas.
 

Catch50

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Maybe. Above my pay grade.
Jason. You're fine.

1) Biden needs to do away with any tariffs that has nothing to do with national security.
2) We need to encourage teleworking.
3) We need to encourage mass transit. We could pay for all mass transit immediately (at least temporarily) if Congress had the brains to do it.
4) We need more immigrants at least as temporary workers.
5) We need more immigrants who have advanced degrees in STEM. Especially Russian and Chinese. We get stronger in these areas while Russia and China get weaker. The same with Mideast countries.
6) More federal investment on U.S. ports.
 
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KnightWhoSaysNit

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Inflation is a problem. But in my humble opinion it is due to commodity and labor prices. There are some things we can do in these areas.


You have got to be kidding. What drove up those prices Catch? They just didn't decide to increase all by themselves. You have a masters in economics and that money supply chart means nothing to you? Seriously?

When so much money is printed that labor can leave the labor force, what do you think the remaining labor will do? Answer: Exactly what they did. Some were even fired by the Democratic Party for not obeying its decrees.

And why would commodity prices increase? Something caused that to happen. And no, it wasn't Putin.
 
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Catch50

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You have got to be kidding. What drove up those prices Catch? They just didn't decide to increase all by themselves. You have a masters in economics and that money supply chart means nothing to you? Seriously?

When so much money is printed that labor can leave the labor force, what do you think the remaining labor will do? Answer: Exactly what they did. Some were even fired by the Democratic Party for not obeying its decrees.

And why would commodity prices increase? Something caused that to happen. And no, it wasn't Putin.
I have seen charts where inflation correlates extremely close to oil prices. Of course, money supply matters but I still think we need to concentrate on commodities. I do not think so much money was "printed" or spent that allowed folks to retire. Most who did already have enough savings. Many decided to retire but at a much lower level of income. That means they were consuming less. Some (mostly women) still have not been able to return to the workforce because they can't find care for their children or elderly or sick family members. Most benefits for these people have expired so again they are consuming less.
 

Waltwam

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If not for the stimulus investments, unemployment would be through the roof.
Not sure I understand your point. Everywhere I look, there are "now hiring" signs posted. And with offers of higher pay, but few want to work.
 

Catch50

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Not sure I understand your point. Everywhere I look, there are "now hiring" signs posted. And with offers of higher pay, but few want to work.
Republicans continue this nonsense that those who don't want to work is far higher than reality.