What exactly are MAGA proposals that are destroying our country?

Jason1743

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If you cannot admit that a recent rash of Paul’s investment decisions are suspicious, your view on insider trading is pretty liberal. Those decisions suspiciously coincided with congressional actions. And then she poo pooed any suggestion that congressional investment rules should be changed. Yes, she and hubby are swampy, i.e. Grifters.

I could be wrong on immigration reform, but we will never know because of Nancy. She chose to talk crap instead of negotiating. She talked crap on her way into their meeting with Trump which led to a shouting match. If you choose to blame Trump, you have give equal credit to Nancy for picking the fight.

All we know about the documents is what Garland claims. He is a puppet who is still seeking revenge for the Supreme Court snub. Wait and see.
I don’t know anything about Paul Pelosi’s trading. I would readily support legislation to ban individual stock trading by members of Congress and their immediate families. I think it’s wrong.
 
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JR4PSU

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How about their attempt to take the voting out of the hands of the voters and allow state legislatures to seat their own electors. How about rewriting history to strip any “offensive “ white racism and genocide from history books. How about destroying the EPA, SS and Medicare. Just a few that come to mind.
Who has suggested stripping anything from our history books? Please be specific. This is nothing more than pure fiction. Left-wing generated boogie man to scare the feeble-minded, such as yourself.
 
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LafayetteBear

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I don’t know anything about Paul Pelosi’s trading. I would readily support legislation to ban individual stock trading by members of Congress and their immediate families. I think it’s wrong.
He’s a Trump Cultist (aka, an idiot). He’s all for investigating Paul Pelosi (who is not a member of Congress), while at the same time conveniently ignoring the rich history of insider trading by Senator Richard Burr and his brother-in-law that was based on insider information Senator Burr got while serving on Senate committees. It prompted the FBI investigation of Burr. They got him red-handed but (for political reasons) declined to prosecute.
 
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Jason1743

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Hillary claimed the 2016 election was stolen. Some democrats voted not to certify that election. Democrats spent 3 years accusing Trump of election fraud.

Demonizing our institutions? Like Schumer threatening Gorsich and Kavanaugh?

Besides, the question was about current MAGA proposals. Instead you respond with Trump hate.

Good grief!
To my knowledge the only current MAGA proposal is to send money to Trump, and dispute the 2020 election.
 
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PSUEngineer89

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That’s okay engie, I don’t think you’re particularly swift. Actually I have multiple science degrees. Not only are you not too swift, you’re also not true to your word. If I remember you posting that Donald stealing nuclear documents would be inexcusable. Well, he did, you let it slide and you don’t care. You have an agenda and you like to massage the facts to fit that agenda.
No, you don’t think that.

In fact, you know, and hate, that I’m much smarter than you. I’m guessing about 25 IQ points.

If that was false, you could understand this. Let me know if you need any assistance in understanding this.

The only hard calculation I've done in this entire thread was the conditional probability calculation for herd immunity.

That calculation requires you to really understand statistics. For those who have an interest, I repost it here. Other than this one, I agree, all the remaining math is pretty easy.

Cletus, I went back and reworked it from scratch.

The formula for probability of being immune is as follows: P(natural) + P(sick&recov) + P(vac) - P(nat + sr) - P(nat + vac) - P(sr + vac) + P(nat + sr + vac).

That formula simplifies because NO ONE can have natural immunity AND get sick and recover. Therefore P(nat + sr) = 0, and P(nat + sr + vac) =0.

So, P(immune) = P(natural) + P(sick&recov) + P(vac) - P(nat + vac) - P(sr + vac).

And since the probability of an individual getting vaccinated is not influenced by natural immunity (how would he know?), then P(nat + vac) = P(nat)*P(vac).

However, many people who got sick know they have natural immunity, and so they decline to get the shot, so P(sr + vac) is not equal to P(nat)*P(vac). Let's agree for the sake of argument that this number is 0.75*P(nat)*P(vac), since many people who we will include in the "sick and recover" category won't know they were even sick, thus.....a stronger factor.

So, with that said, and using your figures, I think:

P(natural) = 0.2, P(s&r) = 100m/320m = 0.34, P(vac) = 0.52*.85%effec = .44, we then get:

P(immune) = 0.20 + 0.34 + 0.44 - (0.20*0.44) - (0.75*0.34*0.44) = 0.78.

That's herd immunity, very little question about it. But I must say, I think two numbers are high.

I don't think 20% of the people have natural immunity (even if they have some immunity where the infection isn't so bad for them, they can still spread it, and thus for herd immunity numbers, they shouldn't count). So, maybe 5-10% have natural immunity is a better number.

Then, 52% is too high also, because even though they get no harm from it, kids still count for spreading the virus. So, I think 52% should be 41% or so.....0.85*0.41 give P(vacc) = 0.350.

If I go with those numbers, we have P(immune) = 0.075 + 0.34 + 0.35 -(0.075*0.35) - (0.75*.075*0.35) = 0.72%, which is still very close to herd immunity.

Either way, one more month to go and it's all over....
 

lurkerlion

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Aug 2, 2011
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There is no such thing as a good MAGA proposal. Not even one.
As long as all you hold is hatred toward the right, you add nothing to healing of the country. If you believe the right is wrong about everything you do what Biden did: countermand every action Trump did. That strategy created crises in energy, immigration, foreign affairs…the list goes on. Opposite George Costanza Except it worked the opposite of good.

The dialogue has always involved trying to find some middle ground. That is no longer true and your attitude is the norm. That is the country’s biggest problem. I’m always right; you are always wrong.
 
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LafayetteBear

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As long as all you hold is hatred toward the right, you add nothing to healing of the country. If you believe the right is wrong about everything you do what Biden did: countermand every action Trump did. That strategy created crises in energy, immigration, foreign affairs…the list goes on. Opposite George Costanza Except it worked the opposite of good.

The dialogue has always involved trying to find some middle ground. That is no longer true and your attitude is the norm. That is the country’s biggest problem. I’m always right; you are always wrong.
When you’re wrong, you’re wrong. And you Trump Cultists are wrong. You won’t even admit basic facts when confronted with them, and are utterly unwilling to compromise. So yes, my belief is that you should be:

1. Outvoted; and
2. Mocked.
 

lurkerlion

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When you’re wrong, you’re wrong. And you Trump Cultists are wrong. You won’t even admit basic facts when confronted with them, and are utterly unwilling to compromise. So yes, my belief is that you should be:

1. Outvoted; and
2. Mocked.
And shackled, burned at the stake, and shot by firing squad? All 75 million?

TDS has blinded you to reality. Most of us 75 million don’t even like Trump but are either conservative or libertarian. Trump‘s platform was pretty conservative although most were skeptical that he would follow through because he had been a Democrat. However, he stayed pretty conservative because Nancy gave him no choice. A negotiator never gives anything away without getting something back. Nancy refused to negotiate.

In summary, if you hate Trump with terminal TDS there is no hope for you. If you love the country and want us to get along, you need to try to find common ground with people again. There is an endless list of issues to negotiate and no one is always right. Biden has proven how TDS can hurt the country perhaps forever.
 

lurkerlion

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Nope. Just outvoted and mocked.
Mocking is the political equivalent of burning at the stake. What is your goal? Would you feel the same if Desantis or Haley or even Pence won? If so, I guess you are just an idealogue who believes win at all costs is the only acceptable outcome. Hence, you don’t believe in a two party democratic form of government. TDS is not relevant to your opinion, just a way to intimidate.

I hear Venezuela is a beautiful place. You might want to look in to it.
 

LafayetteBear

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Mocking is the political equivalent of burning at the stake. What is your goal? Would you feel the same if Desantis or Haley or even Pence won? If so, I guess you are just an idealogue who believes win at all costs is the only acceptable outcome. Hence, you don’t believe in a two party democratic form of government. TDS is not relevant to your opinion, just a way to intimidate.

I hear Venezuela is a beautiful place. You might want to look in to it.
One cannot have a serious discussion with someone who utterly and steadfastly refuses to admit or accept basic facts that conflict with his or her world view. That describes Trump Cultists to a tee.

I believe in every adult, competent, and non-incarcerated voter having the right to vote, and in the democratic principle that majority vote should rule.

Accordingly, I want to outvote Trump Cultists so that I and those who agree with me, rather than Trump Cultists, control the levers of government.

And I also want, with ample justification., to mock them. If you regard being mocked as equivalent to being burned at the stake, that is your choice. Doesn’t mean you are correct, or that I am under any obligation to desist.
 
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lurkerlion

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One cannot have a serious discussion with someone who utterly and steadfastly refuses to admit or accept basic facts that conflict with his or her world view. That describes Trump Cultists to a tee.

I believe in every adult, competent, and non-incarcerated voter having the right to vote, and to the democratic principle that majority vote should rule.

Accordingly, I want to outvote Trump Cultists so that I and those who agree with me, rather than Trump Cultists, control the levers of government.

And I also want, with ample justification., to mock them. If you regard being mocked as equivalent to being burned at the stake, that is your choice. Doesn’t mean you are correct, or that I am under any obligation to desist.
To use your own words: I want to outvote … so that I and those who who agree with me … control the levers of government. I deleted Trump references because I don’t think they are relevant to you. Pence could run and you would feel the same. Power is all that matters. This is authoritarianism. Allegiance to one party. Only one system of values is acceptable.

Putin needs some new lieutenants. His guys who question him keep falling out of windows.
 
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Catch50

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Huh? We have to pay people for not working in order to get them to work?
You prove again how dense you are. Investments mean jobs. Better jobs with living wages. For things we need. Or we could have high unemployment and a sh*thole country. I imagine you like seeing the homeless in SF.
 

Catch50

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To use your own words: I want to outvote … so that I and those who who agree with me … control the levers of government. I deleted Trump references because I don’t think they are relevant to you. Pence could run and you would feel the same. Power is all that matters. This is authoritarianism. Allegiance to one party. Only one system of values is acceptable.

Putin needs some new lieutenants. His guys who question him keep falling out of windows.
Power matters when facing a country run by Trump nutcases.
 

bdgan

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You prove again how dense you are. Investments mean jobs. Better jobs with living wages. For things we need. Or we could have high unemployment and a sh*thole country. I imagine you like seeing the homeless in SF.
People in SF are homeless because California doesn't tax/spend enough? Did you figure that out on a spreadsheet?
 

lurkerlion

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Power matters when facing a country run by Trump nutcases.
Power matters. That is now all that matters to the left. Trump was the only thing that unified the left for the last six years so you and your brethren must keep him in the political conversation.

The left has one of the most unworkable coalitions I have seen. How does Raskin caucus with Ilan Omar? To be blunt, there are anti semites and anti zionists under the same tent as devout Jews. Nancy hates the Squad needs to play nice to keep power, ideology be damned.

All in all, AOC changed the politics of our country more than Trump moving it further progressive left than I can stomach. If you are a radical leftist, then I guess it is all good.
 

Catch50

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Power matters. That is now all that matters to the left. Trump was the only thing that unified the left for the last six years so you and your brethren must keep him in the political conversation.

The left has one of the most unworkable coalitions I have seen. How does Raskin caucus with Ilan Omar? To be blunt, there are anti semites and anti zionists under the same tent as devout Jews. Nancy hates the Squad needs to play nice to keep power, ideology be damned.

All in all, AOC changed the politics of our country more than Trump moving it further progressive left than I can stomach. If you are a radical leftist, then I guess it is all good.
The right is full of nutcases who would get away with violence if they could. The rest of the country trying to check right wing violence and economic disaster.
 
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Catch50

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People in SF are homeless because California doesn't tax/spend enough? Did you figure that out on a spreadsheet?
There would a lot less homeless if the nation had proper investment policies. And more affordable housing.
 
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psuted

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This isn’t about MAGA initiatives or policies which have proven to be good for this country. All you need to know is that todays Democrats are radical extremist hell bent on transforming this county into a Socialist state where people are forced by government to conform to the will of a bunch of elitist, academics, humanists, and totalitarian ideologues.

The left will use anything to gain and maintain power and turn this country into Venezuela. You cannot reason with these Socialist clowns other than to defeat them politically at every level of government before they destroy the country and trample on the rights and liberties guaranteed under the US Constitution.


They’ll call or label anyone that disagrees with them an extremist to try to influence public opinion and distract or deflect from the dangerous transformation they’re trying to push. So it’s important to recognize their game and defeat them politically at every level. There is NO bipartisanship at all when dealing with these radical leftists. Todays Democrat Party needs to be burned to the ground entirely and started over. It’s that bad.
 
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Jason1743

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No, you don’t think that.

In fact, you know, and hate, that I’m much smarter than you. I’m guessing about 25 IQ points.

If that was false, you could understand this. Let me know if you need any assistance in understanding this.
Only stupid and insecure people feel a constant need to tell the world how smart they are.
 
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Jason1743

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This isn’t about MAGA initiatives or policies which have proven to be good for this country. All you need to know is that todays Democrats are radical extremist hell bent on transforming this county into a Socialist state where people are forced by government to conform to the will of a bunch of elitist, academics, humanists, and totalitarian ideologues.

The left will use anything to gain and maintain power and turn this country into Venezuela. You cannot reason with these Socialist clowns other than to defeat them politically at every level of government before they destroy the country and trample on the rights and liberties guaranteed under the US Constitution.


They’ll call or label anyone that disagrees with them an extremist to try to influence public opinion and distract or deflect from the dangerous transformation they’re trying to push. So it’s important to recognize their game and defeat them politically at every level. There is NO bipartisanship at all when dealing with these radical leftists. Todays Democrat Party needs to be burned to the ground entirely and started over. It’s that bad.
Total projection.
 

Jason1743

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So that’s going to destroy our democracy??
That would be attacks on the Democratic process. Voting election deniers into positions to potentially invalidate future elections. Intimidating and threatening violence against officials that MAGA doesn’t agree with. Supporting Donald, who clearly doesn’t believe in democracy or care about anyone other than himself.
 

junior1

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Mocking is the political equivalent of burning at the stake. What is your goal? Would you feel the same if Desantis or Haley or even Pence won? If so, I guess you are just an idealogue who believes win at all costs is the only acceptable outcome. Hence, you don’t believe in a two party democratic form of government. TDS is not relevant to your opinion, just a way to intimidate.

I hear Venezuela is a beautiful place. You might want to look in to it.
there's a better than even chance that if Trump doesn't get the nomination for 2024, all of sudden the same elements of TDS will transfer to whomever is the candidate...racist, semi fascist, xenophobe, etc.
 

PSUEngineer89

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there's a better than even chance that if Trump doesn't get the nomination for 2024, all of sudden the same elements of TDS will transfer to whomever is the candidate...racist, semi fascist, xenophobe, etc.
Remember the vitriol directed at GWB?

How people think it will be different with DeSantis, I don’t know
 
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junior1

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That would be attacks on the Democratic process. Voting election deniers into positions to potentially invalidate future elections. Intimidating and threatening violence against officials that MAGA doesn’t agree with. Supporting Donald, who clearly doesn’t believe in democracy or care about anyone other than himself.
i guess you didn't read that compendium of democrats in 2016 who wanted to change electors, who officially declared that Trump was an illegitimate president, who threatened electors, who revolted in the streets, and who denied that Trump was elected fairly.
Wouldn't those be considered attacks on the democratic process?
I'll start with a few things
  • Skyrocketing debt
  • Record deficits
  • Tax increases on steel, aluminum, and wood increasing the cost of construction.
  • Tax increases on most imported consumer goods.
  • Trillions of socialist handouts in the form of the CARES act and Consolidated Appropriations Act, 2021.
  • Failure to secure the southern border by not completing the wall, having Mexico pay for none of what was built.
  • Failure to leave Afghanistan as promised
  • Failure to investigate and prosecute criminals like Hillary Clinton, James Comey etc.
  • Allowing countless lawless riots in the streets and holding no one responsible.
  • Pumping billions of dollars into big pharma for an untested and possibly deadly Trumpccine.
  • Providing Faucci a daily platform to spread lies and deceit.
  • Allowing Chyna to introduce the Wuhan virus to the world, and not holding them responsible for doing so.
Damn, when you put it all in a list, he was more of a disaster than I thought.
um, you might want to double check your to 2 bullets. According to treasury number, debt at 9/30/20 was 29.6trillion, 2 years later wer'e at 31 trillion with biden's budgets forcasting $1trillion deficits as far as the eye can see.
now going back a little further, the debt 9/30 2008 (Obama becoming president) debt was $10 trillion, in 2016 when trump was about to become president $19.5 trillion
So, it might appear as if MAGA has had little impact on debt. Both parties are bad....of course, pre Obama we were at a measly $10 trillion
 
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jferretti

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That's the left. Can't be the good guy until they fabricate a bad guy.
Geez, if I want to know how Joe and Hunter Biden are bringing us to ruination, I only have to read what's posted here. Give your post more thought.
 

bdgan

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There would a lot less homeless if the nation had proper investment policies. And more affordable housing.
How much more do you expect us to "invest"? We're alry spending 50% more than we collect in taxes.

Also, you have zero evidence to support your suggestion that people are homeless because we haven't invested in infrastructure.
 

lurkerlion

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The right is full of nutcases who would get away with violence if they could. The rest of the country trying to check right wing violence and economic disaster.
Nancy only had a few hundred police present on 1/6 to control 100,000 protestors because Trump supporters had zero history of violence. If you dispute that, then the only explanation is that Nancy wanted violence to occur. Can’t argue it both ways.