Well, I guess that is it ....

[dawgduice]

after yesterday's game I have FINALLY come to the realization that is OL is as good as it will ever be. I have seen ZERO improvement. The sad part is that I do not have much hope for next year because any REAL help is at least two years away.
BUT, we will win some games this year because of the D and the occasional big play (only if Barkley is available). Next year we will be in serious trouble as we will lose our 3 best D linemen.
So, as I said we are at least two years away maybe three? Oh, well.

Hey, a win is a win

Those that doubt the OL is EVERYTHING look at the Philadelphia Eagles

 

[PSU1983PHAN]

But Hand is such a funny guy on Twitter!!!!

 

[EPC FAN]

I EXPECT that line to get better. If it doe not, it is up to the head coach to figure out the reason, and address it. HIS future depends on getting it right. If that means replacing the line coach, so be it.

 

[mn78psu83]

I EXPECT that line to get better. If it doe not, it is up to the head coach to figure out the reason, and address it. HIS future depends on getting it right. If that means replacing the line coach, so be it.

Absolutely.

 

[BBrown]

after yesterday's game I have FINALLY come to the realization that is OL is as good as it will ever be. I have seen ZERO improvement. The sad part is that I do not have much hope for next year because any REAL help is at least two years away.
BUT, we will win some games this year because of the D and the occasional big play (only if Barkley is available). Next year we will be in serious trouble as we will lose our 3 best D linemen.
So, as I said we are at least two years away maybe three? Oh, well.

Hey, a win is a win

Those that doubt the OL is EVERYTHING look at the Philadelphia Eagles

I disagree it has gotten better. Did they give up a sack yesterday? I can't remember.
But we are missing our best Olinman in Nelson and we were playing a very weird scheme.

 

[mn78psu83]

I disagree it has gotten better. Did they give up a sack yesterday? I can't remember.
But we are missing our best Olinman in Nelson and we were playing a very weird scheme.

The run blocking was not good. Obviously. For the most part, Hack had plenty of time to throw yesterday. The pass blocking is much better than it was at the start of the year. Look at some of the hits some of the opposing QBs take against the PSU D. It's football and the guys on D are nasty athletes. Plenty of room for improvement there. They also executed two screens to the RBs decently yesterday. Something we haven't seen much so far. Of course, Barkley was all-world on the first one after the catch and Allen did a good job of finding daylight to a first down on his. Did not really see the blocking scheme on Allen's flat pass for a TD. The O executed it for the score though and the OL is part of that. Just glad to see backs catch the ball. Still, you have to be able to run the ball. There has been some improvement in the OL play. Much room for more improvement too.

 

[Judge Smails]

after yesterday's game I have FINALLY come to the realization that is OL is as good as it will ever be. I have seen ZERO improvement. The sad part is that I do not have much hope for next year because any REAL help is at least two years away.
BUT, we will win some games this year because of the D and the occasional big play (only if Barkley is available). Next year we will be in serious trouble as we will lose our 3 best D linemen.
So, as I said we are at least two years away maybe three? Oh, well.

Hey, a win is a win

Those that doubt the OL is EVERYTHING look at the Philadelphia Eagles

A. Johnson announced he was going pro? Really? You have a link for that? Go watch the San Diego State coaches post game press conference where he said that the 2nd DL unit that PSU ran out there was just as good as the first. Said Penn State is going to be set up for many years on the defensive line.




Go to 1:30

Go watch how well frosh DT Antoine White played when he was in in the 4th quarter. Jesus Christ, we lose 5 senior starters off the squad next year and people want to talk doomsday scenarios over that. We have a very young, talented roster that needs a chance to get older, stronger, faster, etc.

And you have seen ZERO improvement of the OL since the Temple game? Seriously?

 

[mn78psu83]

A. Johnson announced he was going pro? Really? You have a link for that? Go watch the San Diego State coaches post game press conference where he said that the 2nd DL unit that PSU ran out there was just as good as the first. Said Penn State is going to be set up for many years on the defensive line. Go watch how well frosh DT Antoine White played when he was in in the 4th quarter. Jesus Christ, we lose 5 senior starters off the squad next year and people want to talk doomsday scenarios over that. We have a very young, talented roster that needs a chance to get older, stronger, faster, etc.

And you have seen ZERO improvement of the OL since the Temple game? Seriously?

The second team DL has played really well the last 2 games. #93 and #52 look real good. #52 got a sack off of a perfectly executed stunt in the 2nd half. Also, #19 and #90 have played well. The DL will be fine.

 

[fairgambit]

Because of the quality of the opponents we won't really know how good the OL, or the team as a whole is, until after OSU.

 

[PSU1983PHAN]

I EXPECT that line to get better. If it doe not, it is up to the head coach to figure out the reason, and address it. HIS future depends on getting it right. If that means replacing the line coach, so be it.

One of the things that made me cringe at Franklins initial PC was when he said he was fiercely loyal to his assistants. I said to myself I hope none of his assistants are incompetent otherwise we are screwed. So far, it seems Donovan and coach Twitter fit that bill. I'm not too confident in the QB or WR coaches either.

 

[Judge Smails]

Because of the quality of the opponents we won't really know how good the OL, or the team as a whole is, until after OSU.

The number one team in the country? Returning national champs? Unless their roster was 80% frosh or soph eligibility as ours is, hard to expect us to be as good as them. But hell, who knows, we took them to overtime last year even with 10 gift Big Ten points they were given.

 

[fairgambit]

The number one team in the country? Returning national champs? Unless their roster was 80% frosh or soph eligibility as ours is, hard to expect us to be as good as them. But hell, who knows, we took them to overtime last year even with 10 gift Big Ten points they were given.

I don't expect us to be anywhere near as good but if the line plays well and we lose by 14, for example, that will tell me there has been improvement.

 

[bmw199]

after yesterday's game I have FINALLY come to the realization that is OL is as good as it will ever be. I have seen ZERO improvement. The sad part is that I do not have much hope for next year because any REAL help is at least two years away.
BUT, we will win some games this year because of the D and the occasional big play (only if Barkley is available). Next year we will be in serious trouble as we will lose our 3 best D linemen.
So, as I said we are at least two years away maybe three? Oh, well.

Hey, a win is a win

Those that doubt the OL is EVERYTHING look at the Philadelphia Eagles

I'm not sure it's years away. Next year across the line Palmer, Menet, Bates, Mahon, Nelson. I really believe and have heard from others Bates is probably the best OL on the team right now and Menet will automatically become the best the second he enrolls.

 

[PSU20]

Speaking of the OL, if we run that delayed hand off to the left side one more time w/o blocking the LB, we need a new play book. I know we have to keep the defense honest but each time we ran it on first down, we ended up second and 13. Or, we had an incomplete pass on first down and then ran to the left, and ended up "2nd and 13"!!!

SDSU LB's were all over the backfield since they were untouched, nobody even attempted to block them. Easy to look like an All Pro when you go unblocked the entire game. I know the Buckeyes will be salivating at rushing their LB's through our porous OL!

 

[tboyer]

after yesterday's game I have FINALLY come to the realization that is OL is as good as it will ever be. I have seen ZERO improvement. The sad part is that I do not have much hope for next year because any REAL help is at least two years away.
BUT, we will win some games this year because of the D and the occasional big play (only if Barkley is available). Next year we will be in serious trouble as we will lose our 3 best D linemen.
So, as I said we are at least two years away maybe three? Oh, well.

Hey, a win is a win

Those that doubt the OL is EVERYTHING look at the Philadelphia Eagles

Strange comment. At least to me it looks like they've gotten better every week. The passing game is still very inconsistent but you couldn't blame it on the protection yesterday. The run blocking was just fine until Barkley left the game. That should tell you something important right there.

 

[bjf1984]

after yesterday's game I have FINALLY come to the realization that is OL is as good as it will ever be. I have seen ZERO improvement. The sad part is that I do not have much hope for next year because any REAL help is at least two years away.
BUT, we will win some games this year because of the D and the occasional big play (only if Barkley is available). Next year we will be in serious trouble as we will lose our 3 best D linemen.
So, as I said we are at least two years away maybe three? Oh, well.

Hey, a win is a win

Those that doubt the OL is EVERYTHING look at the Philadelphia Eagles

The Offensive Line play was - without question - better yesterday than it was the first week.....and has ben improving throughout the season (especially when you consider the loss of the - clearly - best offensive lineman of the group due to injury).

Only a numbskull would have gone in to this season expecting the offensive line play to be "good" ......and guess what folks - it ain't gonna' be "good" in 2016 either - better, hopefully, but not "good".

If someone expected "good", and is disappointed to not see it.....that is a "him" problem, not a "them " problem.

 

[bjf1984]

I'm not sure it's years away. Next year across the line Palmer, Menet, Bates, Mahon, Nelson. I really believe and have heard from others Bates is probably the best OL on the team right now and Menet will automatically become the best the second he enrolls.

If you're right - and I'm not saying you are or aren't.....God help us (and whomever is playing QB)

 

[bkmtnittany1]

Let me ask a question....does the TE get any grief for our OLine problems? I was at the game yesterday and our backs were getting blown up by safeties,corners and weakside outside lb's.....palmer and his buddies were blocking dline man ok...but I saw Gesecki whiff at least 3 times yesterday....and I was sitting in the north endzone and 2 other guys noticed the same thing. Twice we ran a heavy package to the right with 2 te's on that side and Lynch and allen got blown up from guys from the opposite side....

 

[BBrown]

Speaking of the OL, if we run that delayed hand off to the left side one more time w/o blocking the LB, we need a new play book. I know we have to keep the defense honest but each time we ran it on first down, we ended up second and 13. Or, we had an incomplete pass on first down and then ran to the left, and ended up "2nd and 13"!!!

SDSU LB's were all over the backfield since they were untouched, nobody even attempted to block them. Easy to look like an All Pro when you go unblocked the entire game. I know the Buckeyes will be salivating at rushing their LB's through our porous OL!

I ha

Let me ask a question....does the TE get any grief for our OLine problems? I was at the game yesterday and our backs were getting blown up by safeties,corners and weakside outside lb's.....palmer and his buddies were blocking dline man ok...but I saw Gesecki whiff at least 3 times yesterday....and I was sitting in the north endzone and 2 other guys noticed the same thing. Twice we ran a heavy package to the right with 2 te's on that side and Lynch and allen got blown up from guys from the opposite side....

Yea the TE blocking or lack there of has been a problem for the last 4 years.
I really liked seeing Wilkerson in at FB in the RU game but didn't see it at all yesterday and
please don't even bother putting Mike G. back there his blocking is worse than Jesse James was. Actually Mike G. has had a really rough start to the season he must have had 3 penalties yesterday alone. The offense is not good enough to over come that.

 

[PSU20]

With Nelson in his 3rd year, Mahon also 3rd, Gaia 4th, Mangiro 5th, Dowrey 4th, there is no more waiting for the OL to been good at run blocking. How much time does it take? We wouldn't have anywhere near the rushing yards we have if it weren't for Barkley. No other RB's can do what SB does with the ball, its not the OL, its "him". Lynch had the nice run for a TD against Rutgers, but their DL completely sold out by slanting left. You could have run two trucks through that hole which wasn't really great OL blocking.

Its either the personnel, coaching, or both, but our OL is ineffective at run blocking.

 

[JR4PSU]

after yesterday's game I have FINALLY come to the realization that is OL is as good as it will ever be. I have seen ZERO improvement. The sad part is that I do not have much hope for next year because any REAL help is at least two years away.
BUT, we will win some games this year because of the D and the occasional big play (only if Barkley is available). Next year we will be in serious trouble as we will lose our 3 best D linemen.
So, as I said we are at least two years away maybe three? Oh, well.

Hey, a win is a win

Those that doubt the OL is EVERYTHING look at the Philadelphia Eagles

I think the line has improved some. But Paris Palmer is next to useless. He was beat play after play after play. No aggression. Incredibly poor footwork. Very tentative. Not enough weight, although that is one thing that should be changing. Hack is in serious trouble from the OSU game on this year if we don't get Nelson back. Because Palmer is not getting it done and I don't see him improving.

 

[m.knox]

The run blocking was not good. Obviously. For the most part, Hack had plenty of time to throw yesterday. The pass blocking is much better than it was at the start of the year. Look at some of the hits some of the opposing QBs take against the PSU D. It's football and the guys on D are nasty athletes. Plenty of room for improvement there. They also executed two screens to the RBs decently yesterday. Something we haven't seen much so far. Of course, Barkley was all-world on the first one after the catch and Allen did a good job of finding daylight to a first down on his. Did not really see the blocking scheme on Allen's flat pass for a TD. The O executed it for the score though and the OL is part of that. Just glad to see backs catch the ball. Still, you have to be able to run the ball. There has been some improvement in the OL play. Much room for more improvement too.

Did you catch any of the WI game last night? Man do they know how to run block. They were 8 yards downfield with their blocks. 326 rushing yards on the day. Very impressive, but yes, it was Hawaii...

 

[mn78psu83]

I ha


Yea the TE blocking or lack there of has been a problem for the last 4 years.
I really liked seeing Wilkerson in at FB in the RU game but didn't see it at all yesterday and
please don't even bother putting Mike G. back there his blocking is worse than Jesse James was. Actually Mike G. has had a really rough start to the season he must have had 3 penalties yesterday alone. The offense is not good enough to over come that.

TE blocking is definitely part of it. Wilkerson's blocking in the RU game made a huge difference. As Obli said in another thread, I get the impression the staff is sending him a message 'hey, you want the fun stuff? You've got to do the work then.' He's going to have to get down and dirty and become a complete TE at this level. Things have come awfully easy to him to this point. He was a man child in HS. Doesn't appear blocking was something he had to put much work into then. He has to now.

 

[mn78psu83]

Did you catch any of the WI game last night? Man do they know how to run block. They were 8 yards downfield with their blocks. 326 rushing yards on the day. Very impressive, but yes, it was Hawaii...

They've hung their hat on run blocking for a long time. Nobody does it better.

 

[BBrown]

I think the line has improved some. But Paris Palmer is next to useless. He was beat play after play after play. No aggression. Incredibly poor footwork. Very tentative. Not enough weight, although that is one thing that should be changing. Hack is in serious trouble from the OSU game on this year if we don't get Nelson back. Because Palmer is not getting it done and I don't see him improving.

I'm going to disagree with you on this. He is improving not at a great rate but he's also learning on the fly. He had 3 really good blocks yesterday that helped get TD's 1 on Barkley's run, 1 on the screen pass to Barkley and then 1 on Allen's TD pass.
I don't think he's as bad as others do, frankly I thought Mahon played worse yesterday than Palmer.
I do agree though we will be in trouble with Bosa and tOSU.

 

[mn78psu83]

I'm going to disagree with you on this. He is improving not at a great rate but he's also learning on the fly. He had 3 really good blocks yesterday that helped get TD's 1 on Barkley's run, 1 on the screen pass to Barkley and then 1 on Allen's TD pass.
I don't think he's as bad as others do, frankly I thought Mahon played worse yesterday than Palmer.
I do agree though we will be in trouble with Bosa and tOSU.

He has definitely improved. A work in progress. Not fair to say he hasn't improved though.

 

[BBrown]

TE blocking is definitely part of it. Wilkerson's blocking in the RU game made a huge difference. As Obli said in another thread, I get the impression the staff is sending him a message 'hey, you want the fun stuff? You've got to do the work then.' He's going to have to get down and dirty and become a complete TE at this level. Things have come awfully easy to him to this point. He was a man child in HS. Doesn't appear blocking was something he had to put much work into then. He has to now.

Did you see Wilkerson in the game at all? I was thrilled when I saw that at the RU game and then dumbfounded when I didn't see it yesterday.

 

[bdgan]

Let me ask a question....does the TE get any grief for our OLine problems? I was at the game yesterday and our backs were getting blown up by safeties,corners and weakside outside lb's.....palmer and his buddies were blocking dline man ok...but I saw Gesecki whiff at least 3 times yesterday....and I was sitting in the north endzone and 2 other guys noticed the same thing. Twice we ran a heavy package to the right with 2 te's on that side and Lynch and allen got blown up from guys from the opposite side....

Last spring Franklin commented on this being a weakness so he obviously understands the problem. Now the question is do we have bad TEs (including those that left last year) or do we have bad coaching. I find it difficult to believe that our coaches don't understand blocking technique but it also seems unlikely that the last 4-5 TEs all have such a built in weakness. It's a bit of a mystery. I don't buy into the youth thing. Carter & Wilkerson are upperclassmen. Gesicki is a sophomore and I understand why he would get beat by upperclassmen at MSU, but not by the opponents we've played.

 

[mn78psu83]

Did you see Wilkerson in the game at all? I was thrilled when I saw that at the RU game and then dumbfounded when I didn't see it yesterday.

I only saw him in on one series. That isn't to say he didn't play more. Carter saw a lot of action.

 

[garw]

I gotta say the line has looked much better without Nelson. Mahon was not the issue yesterday on running plays during the second half. He handled his turf pretty well. Palmer had a much tougher time of it. I think the Nelson story is nice but whatever his knee ailment it doesn't seem to be going away. I think the sooner we start giving the freshmen and RS freshmen reps the better we will be.

 

[bjf1984]

I only saw him in on one series. That isn't to say he didn't play more. Carter saw a lot of action.

PSU played a LOT of three TE sets.

A lot .

 

[mn78psu83]

PSU played a LOT of three TE sets.

A lot .

You pay close attention to the technical details of the game. How would you assess the TE blocking overall?

 

[bmw199]

If you're right - and I'm not saying you are or aren't.....God help us (and whomever is playing QB)

I think they'll be better than Gaia, Mangiro, and Dowery

 

[PSU1983PHAN]

Last spring Franklin commented on this being a weakness so he obviously understands the problem. Now the question is do we have bad TEs (including those that left last year) or do we have bad coaching. I find it difficult to believe that our coaches don't understand blocking technique but it also seems unlikely that the last 4-5 TEs all have such a built in weakness. It's a bit of a mystery. I don't buy into the youth thing. Carter & Wilkerson are upperclassmen. Gesicki is a sophomore and I understand why he would get beat by upperclassmen at MSU, but not by the opponents we've played.

Hey guys guess who the TE coach is?



John Donovan

 

[Ten Thousan Marbles]

1)The OL has quite obviously improved.
2)Paris Palmer has quite obviously improved.
3)Wilkerson was in for plenty of plays. Not sure how many. (Try to remember that some = more than one, and that is all I mean by plenty. Gosh. I hope we don't reduce ourselves to debate the meaning of some all over again. Embarrassing stuff, that.)

There has certainly been some improvement. People see what they want to, it seems.

Still plenty of room for improvement. But, to say that none has occurred is a bit odd.

 

[bjf1984]

You pay close attention to the technical details of the game. How would you assess the TE blocking overall?

As a group?

In a word.....lousy

 

[hagberg]

I have been one of those placing a lot of blame on Donovan and Hand. While I still think they are part of the problem, I've realized that another, probably equal, part is the players at both tackles.

Neither of them should be starting at this level, at least not at tackle. Mahon is much better suited for the interior and Palmer simply is too raw and has poor mechanics at this point. They both make some plays, but far fewer than they miss.

Several times in the last two games I've seen Mahon make the same mistake. As the play starts, the man he's expecting to block moves inside and is jammed up by Gaia and/or Mangiro. The outside LB comes on a blitz, yet Mahon inexplicably turns to his left to "help" where no help is needed, leaving the LB unblocked. Now, I'm not saying he shouldn't be playing, just that he's not effective at RT. I also realize he's there out of necessity due to our still shallow experienced depth at o-line.

Palmer is a different story. I think he could be at least serviceable as a tackle, but he's got a long way to go to get there. Two things really stand out. First, he gives the defender too much room to come to him instead of engaging early enough to get his hands on him to gain some control. This in part leads to the second issue.

He has a very bad habit that makes me wonder if he used to get called for holding/illegal blocks a lot. This is something I've seen in every game, and happens on passing downs when a defender comes at him and spins. Palmer, because he hasn't yet gotten a hand on the defender, lifts his arms up in an "I didn't do it" gesture and banks away to make sure he doesn't block him in the back. Not only does this allow the defender to get up a head of steam, Palmer also finds himself completely out of position to make a block because his footwork isn't there yet, either. Not meaning to pile on the guy, but he seems to quit his blocks early. He just doesn't seem to have the nasty streak required to play the line.

I definitely saw improvement from the Temple to Rutgers games, but the o-line looked a little more out of sync against SDSU. Maybe it was the looks the D was giving them; I certainly hope so, but I didn't see any of the "defense moves around instead of getting set" stuff I heard leading up to this game. We're better with Nelson healthy, but even with him, I fear the o-line is in for some rough times after next week.

 

[BlueBand]

The OL play may still have room for tons of improvement, but for anyone to say they're not playing better needs to go back and watch the Temple game again.

Now, how much is better play, how much is a better gameplan, and how much is weaker competition, I don't know.

Enough on the Twitter stuff. If Hand is doing a poor job, it has nothing to do with his Twitter posts.

I'm wondering why the WR coach keeps getting a pass. Hack has had his issues, but how many dropped passes have we had, and more importantly, if we have such a talented WR corps, why can they never get separation and get open? Hand has a legitimate excuse in terms of personnel, but I thought WR was a position we have recruited well, and where young players can more easily contribute.

 

[JR4PSU]

I'm going to disagree with you on this. He is improving not at a great rate but he's also learning on the fly. He had 3 really good blocks yesterday that helped get TD's 1 on Barkley's run, 1 on the screen pass to Barkley and then 1 on Allen's TD pass.
I don't think he's as bad as others do, frankly I thought Mahon played worse yesterday than Palmer.
I do agree though we will be in trouble with Bosa and tOSU.

We had more than 60 plays, not 3. He needs to be at least adequate in the vast majority of those. I would suggest you watch the game again with a particular focus on Paris. Then give us your thoughts.

 

[BBrown]

We had more than 60 plays, not 3. He needs to be at least adequate in the vast majority of those. I would suggest you watch the game again with a particular focus on Paris. Then give us your thoughts.

LOL, yea I realize we had more than 3 plays but I noticed specifically he had good blocks on those 3 KEY plays.
I never said he was good I just said he was improving and he's all we have right now so constantly bitching about it isn't going to fix the problem.