Update on Ziegler’s fake accuser

[LaJolla Lion]

That would be terrible, and grounds for a severe beating for the man. That said, I assume your teenage daughter wouldn't then go on to testify to 100 acts of sex forced upon her by the man when they didn't happen.

Don't forget the other 7 girls who testified as adults to that same adult exhibiting the same behavior...they are all liars and the man going out of his way to get kids alone is the poster boy for truth and justice. It's perfectly normal for adults to get dozens of kids alone and to make physical contact with them over and over again. Then you can also ignore those people saying more than a hand on the lap occurred.

Grooming is fake...it's made up. Pedophiles are like unicorns and these crappy kids are ruining Jerry's goofy and innocent fun.

 

[dshumbero]

You might care, but you don't mind. You blew your cover last week with that thread you started that allowed your Pitt pals to come aboard and verbally abuse us. Remember that thread? The one that got so vile it was deleted?

Anybody who takes you seriously after that little gem should have their heads examined.

Aside from JockstrapJacobs, the most sickening fraud in that bunch is mbe34/shuttlesworth/Andrea DiMaggio. The turd is a complete fake and easy to recognize. Every post is the same canned, saved spam and bullshit spin.

 

[getmyjive11]

He might be the most publicized and most politically correct target. But he isn't in the same galaxy as the "most deviant".

Sandusky's victims seemed to think he was the best thing that ever happened to them since sliced bread until they were convinced they could all become millionaires. The "most deviant" of pedos actually turn their victims IN TO sliced bread. They kill them. Violently, dead, and forever.

One of the things that concerns me and convinces me this is nothing more than a complete witch hunt is the total lack of curiosity and concern for the REAL Victims 2 and 8. If AM isn't Victim 2, then he probably knows who is, and that kid is probably dead. The chances of the REAL Victim 2 dying of natural causes between the McQueary incident and the conversation Jerry had with Raykovitz, and then AM in 2001 is slim to none. Yet the AG and prosecutors didn't, and still don't, give a sh!+.

Where's the murder investigation? If AM isn't the real Victim 2, some parent or relative out there HAS to wonder what the heck happened to their kid.

Sandusky founded a charity so that he could have exclusive access to his very own victim farm. He allegedly abused over 30 child, many of which were abused repeatedly. He is the worst pedophile this nation has ever seen. If you don't agree, show me an example of one that is worse.

 

[bjf1991]

Sandusky founded a charity so that he could have exclusive access to his very own victim farm. He allegedly abused over 30 child, many of which were abused repeatedly. He is the worst pedophile this nation has ever seen. If you don't agree, show me an example of one that is worse.

Good Grief


It's too bad Jeffrey Dahmer didn't set up a date with you in your youth

Woulda' been better all around

 

[kevina001]

Sandusky founded a charity so that he could have exclusive access to his very own victim farm. He allegedly abused over 30 child, many of which were abused repeatedly. He is the worst pedophile this nation has ever seen. If you don't agree, show me an example of one that is worse.

Aaron Fischer's step dad

 

[rmb297]

I might argue with your conclusion that those things proved he was a child molester beyond a reasonable doubt. Where's the sexual intent? But you're right. Nobody in their right mind would admit to those things....especially if he was a notorious, serial, child predator.

Sexual intent = Being in bed with boys.

Again, if it was a 15 year old girl, no one would have any doubt what the intent was. Why are you so hung up on the fact that Jerry loved boys?

 

[kevina001]

Sexual intent = Being in bed with boys.

Again, if it was a 15 year old girl, no one would have any doubt what the intent was. Why are you so hung up on the fact that Jerry loved boys?

Your level of certainty about Jerry's intent is baffling. How are you so sure?

On a related note, I shared a bed with my 10 year old son this past weekend. Going to turn myself in now.

 

[LaJolla Lion]

Good Grief


It's too bad Jeffrey Dahmer didn't set up a date with you in your youth

Woulda' been better all around

Yet another sane and stable post.

 

[rmb297]

The burden of proof does not lie with the accused, but with the accuser. With all the shenanigans pulled by the prosecution, Shubin, Penn State, Freeh....the list goes on, it's not unfair to question every aspect of this mess and that ultimately includes Sandusky's guilt or innocence. Justice should be served, but the ends do not justify the means. Nobody bothered to give him the presumption of innocence in 2011. Maybe he can get it in 2017.

I'm relatively convinced he didn't molest anyone in the Penn State facilities. If true, that's pretty important as it relates to the ancillary damage caused by this mess.

I don't believe he molested Matt Sandusky and I have serious doubts he molested Aaron Fisher. And if it should turn out to be true that all he did is inappropriately kiss a few boys with no real evidence of sexual intent, then maybe the man needs help. Spending the rest of his life in prison isn't serving that purpose.

An entire community was humiliated for turning a blind eye while a monster preyed on their young. I find it far more likely that the people of Penn State, State College and even TSM are good people who couldn't have seen what didn't happen.

To the contrary, as an analyst the first thing I did was look at the evidence to determine guilt or innocence. Recall that at one time, I had my doubts whether Jerry went beyond fondling -- still a crime of sexual intent.

However, after doing much more investigating and research, there is no doubt in my mind that Jerry was engaging in oral sex. Wrestling matches were used for initial contact and fondling. Blowing raspberries on the stomachs was the entry way to engagement into oral sex.

There are many more victims out there. Jerry kept a lot of psychologists busy around State College.

 

[rmb297]

Your level of certainty about Jerry's intent is baffling. How are you so sure?

On a related note, I shared a bed with my 10 year old son this past weekend. Going to turn myself in now.

Did you also share a bed with your next door neighbor's son? Try it and see how that works out for you.

 

[LaJolla Lion]

Your level of certainty about Jerry's intent is baffling. How are you so sure?

On a related note, I shared a bed with my 10 year old son this past weekend. Going to turn myself in now.

So you would allow another adult to lay down and kiss your son or shower with him alone? You are totally fine with that and that isn't odd to you at all? I guess you just assume these guys don't exist. Wow.

 

[kevina001]

Did you also share a bed with your next door neighbor's son? Try it and see how that works out for you.

Jerry looked at these kids as family. I wouldn't do what he did, but I also wouldn't adopt six kids either. People are different. Doesn't mean those that are different are diddlers.

 

[LaJolla Lion]

Did you also share a bed with your next door neighbor's son? Try it and see how that works out for you.

This is the same guy last week who asked me if I was attracted to teenage girls as that is somehow proof that Jerry is just odd. Maybe this guy does shower with other kids children or allows his kids to crawl into beds with other adults. Apparently some people really don't think people molest children.

 

[rmb297]

Aaron Fischer's step dad

Fisher's step father pleaded guilty to child pornography charges and related charges. He was never charged with contact offenses.

Neither Fisher nor any other victim accused Jerry of using pornography, so I don't see how the step-father is relevant.

 

[LaJolla Lion]

Jerry looked at these kids as family. I wouldn't do what he did, but I also wouldn't adopt six kids either. People are different. Doesn't mean those that are different are diddlers.

 

[rmb297]

Jerry looked at these kids as family. I wouldn't do what he did, but I also wouldn't adopt six kids either. People are different. Doesn't mean those that are different are diddlers.

Yeah, that's a nice story. Meet a kid, take a year to check out his background. Then get close to the kid and his mother -- next thing you know it's the express lane to the shower.

 

[LaJolla Lion]

Yeah, that's a nice story. Meet a kid, take a year to check out his background. Then get close to the kid and his mother -- next thing you know it's the express lane to the shower.

But hey it was just one kid...no harm, no foul....ooooops. Then you have all of these guys saying he did the same moves and then it went beyond just kissing or touching....but hey they all must be liars. Trust Jerry Ray...trust Jerry.

 

[mOOse_44]

Sandusky founded a charity so that he could have exclusive access to his very own victim farm. He allegedly abused over 30 child, many of which were abused repeatedly. He is the worst pedophile this nation has ever seen. If you don't agree, show me an example of one that is worse.

Have you heard of Boystown in Omaha? Boystown and the 2nd mile are the smoke to the fire. Pedophiles exist at every level of government, business and society at large. There are enough of them out there that they find a way to keep these things quiet and find a blame guy to take down and kill the situation when it gets exposed. I think Jerry is guilty, but he is just one of many, many prominent figures in this disgusting sex trade. The tip of the iceberg as they would say. Look up John DeCamp, Larry King, the conspiracy of silence documentary and tell me if this rings a bell.

 

[kevina001]

Yeah, that's a nice story. Meet a kid, take a year to check out his background. Then get close to the kid and his mother -- next thing you know it's the express lane to the shower.

One thing I do know is the chances of Jerry being innocent are far greater than the likelihood of some massive conspiracy with this"scandal" involving doctored emails. I feel comfortable having a different viewpoint from you.

 

[rmb297]

One thing I do know is the chances of Jerry being innocent are far greater than the likelihood of some massive conspiracy with this"scandal" involving doctored emails. I feel comfortable having a different viewpoint from you.

We'll see.

I know this. My viewpoint is based on reality, yours is based on fantasy.

As for massive conspiracy, there is much more evidence of that than Jerry being innocent.

Most of us have learned the BOT, Freeh, and NCAA worked together to slam JVP and athletics. You don't believe that?

Next, Corbett recommended Freeh for the investigation at PSU. We also know that Freeh's team and the OAG exchanged emails congratulating each other.

Add that up and what to you get?

Gee, it looks like a bunch of groups conspiring to put all the blame on JVP and PSU.

Now add the fact that Cynthia Baldwin got hired right after the news of the Sandusky investigation going to the AG. And that a PSU staffer witnessed Baldwin with one of the USB drives that contained the emails in her computer.

Baldwin -- who we know lied to Spanier about representing him.

And then you have the fact that the guy who pulled all the levers on the PSU BOT was tied to The Second Mile -- and was behind the hiring of Baldwin.

The Second Mile victim factory gets out of this without charges and without having to pay a nickel to the victims.

No, the only "conspiracy theory" is that Jerry is innocent.

 

[Big Fan]

Well if you are looking for the worst pedophiles in US history - Jerry probably isn't in the top ten. Of course the revelations of these kind of criminals often do not come out until years later - sometimes after they are dead. They are experts at picking vulnerable targets and keeping secrets. And these are not the kind of feel good stories that the mainstream media covers. Maybe that's good in that we don't glorify these predators, but maybe it's bad because we don't increase awareness. Here's an example of someone much worse - a doctor in CT who had thousands of victims over a 30 year period. They found his secret room years after he was dead.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...edophile-abused-thousands-30-year-period.html

 

[bjf1991]

Yet another sane and stable post.

In response to GetMyJism's:

"....He is the worst pedophile this nation has ever seen. If you don't agree, show me an example of one that is worse...."

??????

Seriously?

Oh, wait.....I forgot who I was "chatting" with.

Mea Culpa......carry on.
Now you can accuse me of making the argument that the Great Wall of China is made out of recycled Aqua-Fina bottles ...... or some similarly ludicrous "make up some argument - and attribute it to someone else - and then try to argue about it with them" statement ..... and then spend three months repeatedly proving "me" wrong

Good Luck .....though I think you're guaranteed to win - no matter what

 

[kevina001]

If you take emotion out of this, you can see that there is more than reasonable doubt that Jerry is guilty of all he was convicted of. There is a boatload of doubt. Shaky victim credibility, huge financial incentives to lie, crooked investigators (caught on tape), scum lawyers (caught on tape), fraudulent grand jury presentment, shaky witnesses.... am I missing anything?

If this case had to do with anything other than child molestation, Jerry would have easily walked. Too much emotion clouding judgement.

 

[wensilver]

I'm going to jump in here and ask the question of why Second Mile CEO & licensed child psychologist Dr. Jack Raykovitz did not discuss the red flags of grooming behavior with Jerry and put a stop to it.

"sexual intent" or not, the fact remains that Second Mile leadership knew that their charity founder, fundraiser and face of the organization was exhibiting grooming behavior around Second Mile youth.

This would be toxic for any children's charity if their founder was then accused of sexual behavior with their minor clients, especially clients that come from dysfunctional homes and have histories of social, emotional and behavioral problems that might only add fuel to the fire.

The signs of grooming are clearly explained here:


Jerry was not a licensed social worker, and had no clinical experience working with this population. He chose to immerse himself with a troubled population; he chose to ignore best practices for working with minors; he chose to not protect himself, his family and his charity by ignoring how his behavior would place himself at risk; he chose to surf along the edge of plausible deniability - even after the cops set up a sting.

In other words - you know you are placing yourself with dirtball kids from crappy families with trailer trash mothers. Yes, I said it - that's the reality. It's not enough to say "I love working with youth, improving their lives and my mission is honorable" - you have to ask yourself - "what if one of these little bastards accuses me of a crime?". "I have a lot to lose here". "How can I protect myself and my family?"

That's on Jerry, and by extent - leadership at Second Mile. I have yet to get an explanation as to why what is clearly grooming behavior as established by the very profession Second Mile CEO Jack Raykovitz is licensed in, was acceptable in the figurehead of the Second Mile children's charity.

 

[rmb297]

If you take emotion out of this, you can see that there is more than reasonable doubt that Jerry is guilty of all he was convicted of. There is a boatload of doubt. Shaky victim credibility, huge financial incentives to lie, crooked investigators (caught on tape), scum lawyers (caught on tape), fraudulent grand jury presentment, shaky witnesses.... am I missing anything?

If this case had to do with anything other than child molestation, Jerry would have easily walked. Too much emotion clouding judgement.

Capricious doubt, not reasonable doubt.

The money grubbing victim defense was used at the trial. It didn't work. And that's 4/6 of your argument.

The tape was played at the trial. It didn't have an effect on the outcome. That's 5/6.

The grand jury presentment wasn't part of the evidence at the trial. 6/6

Want to try that again?

 

[kevina001]

Capricious doubt, not reasonable doubt.

The money grubbing victim defense was used at the trial. It didn't work. And that's 4/6 of your argument.

The tape was played at the trial. It didn't have an effect on the outcome. That's 5/6.

The grand jury presentment wasn't part of the evidence at the trial. 6/6

Want to try that again?

You know what else was present at the trial? A tainted jury pool.

Trial verdicts don't always get it right. Were you part of the Free OJ crowd?

 

[demlion]

Sandusky founded a charity so that he could have exclusive access to his very own victim farm. He allegedly abused over 30 child, many of which were abused repeatedly. He is the worst pedophile this nation has ever seen. If you don't agree, show me an example of one that is worse.

Larry Nasser, MSU employee.

 

[JoeBatters1]

"There are many more victims out there. Jerry kept a lot of psychologists busy around State College."

Ray, are you saying there are many more victims beyond those who received settlements from psu?

How many total kids do you estimate (rough estimate) sandusky molested?

Also, are you suggesting that many psychologists received contemporaneous reports of Sandusky's abuse? Thanks

 

[LaJolla Lion]

In response to GetMyJism's:

"....He is the worst pedophile this nation has ever seen. If you don't agree, show me an example of one that is worse...."

??????

Seriously?

Oh, wait.....I forgot who I was "chatting" with.

Mea Culpa......carry on.
Now you can accuse me of making the argument that the Great Wall of China is made out of recycled Aqua-Fina bottles ...... or some similarly ludicrous "make up some argument - and attribute it to someone else - and then try to argue about it with them" statement ..... and then spend three months repeatedly proving "me" wrong

Good Luck .....though I think you're guaranteed to win - no matter what

No worries...disagree with someone and wish them death...perfectly normal behavior. Carry on.

 

[dshumbero]

If you take emotion out of this, you can see that there is more than reasonable doubt that Jerry is guilty of all he was convicted of. There is a boatload of doubt. Shaky victim credibility, huge financial incentives to lie, crooked investigators (caught on tape), scum lawyers (caught on tape), fraudulent grand jury presentment, shaky witnesses.... am I missing anything?

If this case had to do with anything other than child molestation, Jerry would have easily walked. Too much emotion clouding judgement.

You missed a Judge who suppressed any legitimate objections, questions, and a jury that was so frightened of being painted as enablers, they would have found George Washington guilty of molestation.

 

[LaJolla Lion]

I'm going to jump in here and ask the question of why Second Mile CEO & licensed child psychologist Dr. Jack Raykovitz did not discuss the red flags of grooming behavior with Jerry and put a stop to it.

"sexual intent" or not, the fact remains that Second Mile leadership knew that their charity founder, fundraiser and face of the organization was exhibiting grooming behavior around Second Mile youth.

This would be toxic for any children's charity if their founder was then accused of sexual behavior with their minor clients, especially clients that come from dysfunctional homes and have histories of social, emotional and behavioral problems that might only add fuel to the fire.

The signs of grooming are clearly explained here:

View embedded media

Jerry was not a licensed social worker, and had no clinical experience working with this population. He chose to immerse himself with a troubled population; he chose to ignore best practices for working with minors; he chose to not protect himself, his family and his charity by ignoring how his behavior would place himself at risk; he chose to surf along the edge of plausible deniability - even after the cops set up a sting.

In other words - you know you are placing yourself with dirtball kids from crappy families with trailer trash mothers. Yes, I said it - that's the reality. It's not enough to say "I love working with youth, improving their lives and my mission is honorable" - you have to ask yourself - "what if one of these little bastards accuses me of a crime?". "I have a lot to lose here". "How can I protect myself and my family?"

That's on Jerry, and by extent - leadership at Second Mile. I have yet to get an explanation as to why what is clearly grooming behavior as established by the very profession Second Mile CEO Jack Raykovitz is licensed in, was acceptable in the figurehead of the Second Mile children's charity.

Maybe Jerry brought in Dollars or Jerry wasn't telling Doctor Jack? Maybe he just felt like turning a blind eye because if you read this site you will hear some say that was "JUST JERRY BEING JERRY" and he is innocent. That question is best suited for Jack...is it not? Fair question wen...doubt anyone pushed him to answer it.

 

[kevina001]

How many total kids do you estimate (rough estimate) sandusky molested?

The most vocal Jerry opponents apparently are under the impression that Jerry had 10x the sex drive as John Holmes in his prime. Hundreds of kids, hundreds of times. It's a wonder Jerry didn't die of dehydration.

 

[Connorpozlee]

Kevin, I'm not sure where you are getting all the doubt about Sandusky.

 

[Osprey Lion]

You know what else was present at the trial? A tainted jury pool.

Trial verdicts don't always get it right. Were you part of the Free OJ crowd?

Your lack of common sense makes you appear to be someone who would be part of a "free OJ crowd".

 

[lionville]

"There are many more victims out there. Jerry kept a lot of psychologists busy around State College."

Ray, are you saying there are many more victims beyond those who received settlements from psu?

How many total kids do you estimate (rough estimate) sandusky molested?

Also, are you suggesting that many psychologists received contemporaneous reports of Sandusky's abuse? Thanks

Are they mandatory reporters? It seems Jerry's pedophilia was known to just about everyone in SC and yet no one blinked an eye, let alone tried to stop him. But the PSU 3 conspired to keep this silent for the sake of ..... football.

 

[BobPSU92]

Is there still room for the middle ground here, that being that jerry is a pedophile who did not get a fair trial?

 

[demlion]

"There are many more victims out there. Jerry kept a lot of psychologists busy around State College."

Ray, are you saying there are many more victims beyond those who received settlements from psu?

How many total kids do you estimate (rough estimate) sandusky molested?

Also, are you suggesting that many psychologists received contemporaneous reports of Sandusky's abuse? Thanks

We certainly know that ONE Ph D child psychologist had contemporaneous reports and did nothing: Jack Raykovitz. No question he knew more than anyone at PSU ever did. So, naturally, as a mandatory reporter and exec director of the grooming charity, this long term failure to report got him ruined professionally disciplined to a severe degree, right? Why I would be shocked if he is not still in jail, right?

Oh, wait, he is a free man and a practicing psychologist in State College. He never suffered any consequences at all.

So, it appears that allowing systematic abuse of children without reporting it is perfectly ok for a SC child psychologist. Seems reasonable to conclude that every psychologist in the county knew about this freak, and none of them did anything. BTW, Alycia Chambers reported Jerry's grooming behavior. She got ignored.

 

[Connorpozlee]

Is there still room for the middle ground here, that being that jerry is a pedophile who did not get a fair trial?

I would think so. I am positive of one. The other is going through the process of being determined right now.
If they retried Sandusky I have no doubt he would be found guilty again.

 

[bjf1991]

No worries...disagree with someone and wish them death...perfectly normal behavior. Carry on.

Don't be "that guy"...... have you no pride?

Good Grief...... I don't know what it is about you and THIS issue - anyone who raises ANY concern wrt ANY aspect of the adjudication of this case can't be anything but a pedo-loving, child-abuse-advocating zealot.

You're not a d&ckhead on any other subject - TTBOMK.
Only explanation is that there is some personal issue with you in this area........ You make Dan Bernstein look like Henry Kissinger.

But - its just so damn f&cked up that the only reasonable solution is to slap on the "ignore"

Good Luck with whatever demon has you by the balls.

 

[LaJolla Lion]

Don't be "that guy"...... have you no pride?

Good Grief...... I don't know what it is about you and THIS issue - anyone who raises ANY concern wrt ANY aspect of the adjudication of this case can't be anything but a pedo-loving, child-abuse-advocating zealot.

You're not a d&ckhead on any other subject - TTBOMK.
Only explanation is that there is some personal issue with you in this area........ You make Dan Bernstein look like Henry Kissinger.

But - its just so damn f&cked up that the only reasonable solution is to slap on the "ignore"

Good Luck with whatever demon has you by the balls.

LOL, what a buch of horseshit that is. You take it so far as to run for the BoT, carry on daily about this, and it's really personal to me only. Maybe you don't like hearing Jerry molested boys and by putting me on ignore you can still pretend the unfair trial is really the demon here in all of this.

I find it hysterical you try and paint that picture, but you go ahead and click that ignore. I mean ignoring what you don't like hearing is often a sign of a great leader...you would do so well to represent anyone that agrees with your every single opinion on this planet. After all everyone else is a moron to you. WTF....wow. Holy black kettle syndrome.

Great leaders often do this.