Update on Ziegler’s fake accuser
- Thread starter francofan
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Exactly! Surely someone's smart enough to get this information out there anonymously.
Not making excuses for the guy - ASSUMING that this story is even legit - because I sure as hell would "put it out there"...... But I certainly think, again - if the story is legit at all - that the folks involved in the conversation (Shubin) certainly would know "who it is".......so I can't imagine any possible way to release it "anonymously"
Again - if it's me, or anyone who would ask my advice - that stuff (if it exists) would have been released long ago
I'm still confused - why did this guy go to all the trouble to document the entire scheme only to do.....nothing?
But hey. Not a whole helluva a lot has made sense these past 5 years
But hey. Not a whole helluva a lot has made sense these past 5 years
He was probably told after the fact that w/ an out of control OAG, it wasn't such a good idea.
Doesn't really jive - - - - does it?
Then again..... if the post A Lub made was legit (along with a boatload or "other stuff" over these years)...... it does have some congruent elements.
So - - - - who the F knows?
Maybe he felt that going to JZ (assuming JZ's account has legitimacy) was = "getting it out there" anonymously......just spit-balling - but one could make the case that JZ is the most visible and accessible person that one might think of if they had "Sandusky" information that they wanted to make "public" through a third person.
Certainly - IMO - I would be shocked if there are not "fake accusers", for lack of a better term, from among those who cashed our checks.
I would find it very easy to believe someone could "play a fake accuser" ala JZ's scenario - - - - but that doesn't fully address (at least not to my satisfaction) the necessary rationales - at least any that I can imagine and find reasonable - behind not going "full public".
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I never said he was a fraud. I said, he knew of, has proof of, and now has admitted on record, that he has knowledge and proof of, a fraud committed against PSU. He's previously not said there was any actual fraud vs. PSU. He now says there were over a dozen therapy sessions, "paid for by PSU" by this false claimant.
I don't really care much about ZIg or Shubin, but if this guy defrauded PSU, I do care.
And, as just a very minor point, since it's "about the kids" this jerk (the false accuser) took hours away from a therapist and someone that may have actually had a need to, you know, see a therapist, for therapy? Not cool.
Now, JZ. I believe he isn't releasing it because he promised not to.
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You don't care about Shubin? W/out Shubin how does any of this even happen?
Why would the DA need PSU's cooperation? Isn't fraud a crime exclusive of the fraud's victim?
Seriously? Jerry Sandusky was a molester. He didn't start in 1998. Nor end in 2001. It wasn't about PSU.
This sort of thing comes out eventually. It might have taken til he was dead, but it would have come out.
Shubin was just a player. Not the cause.
This particular isn't about JS. This is about an ambulance chasing attorney recruiting every deadbeat in Clinton County to fleece a public university for millions of dollars. He's just a player? Pretty big one for sure.
They don't
So if the recounting of the situation is accurate - the DA is a leg-pisser
Shubin certainly didn't cause JS to molest boys. That's 100% on Jerry. But it might also be true that Shubin used questionable tactics to "create" a few extra victims in exchange for an even bigger payday. And maybe in the process he further cast an unfair image on the PSU community. Maybe.
I think maybe the headline should read JZ's fake fake accuser.Ummmm you called? Little ole me...oh so sweet.
So the media attention whore who went so far as to go on dating shows just to get on TV is the pillar of honesty, truth, and integrity? How about someone legitimately debunks a victim or one victim steps up and claims it was all a sham. Why not start there with just one and actual proof instead of he's a bad egg.
Now a JZ plant if this really does exist is somehow the beacon of truth and integrity? My god does he play people like a fiddle....carry on. No tape has been produced just another JZ story currently. He has been Lucy holding the football for years now but maybe this is the time Charlie Brown gets to kick the ball, maybe.
An ex-girlfriend or ex-wife tends to have credibility issues.
I'd imagine that if someone came forward to claim to be a fake victim to see if they could get paid -- then got about $1 million for his trouble, I can see how he'd be less than willing to then tell the truth (and get arrested for fraud -- and lose $1 milliion).
Quite the conundrum!!!
Funny thing is a couple people here kick and scream about due process and actual evidence, but never hold the attention whore to those same standards. His best evidence 5 years later is AF is probably a d--K? It would be something if he ever presented real evidence other than the token defense of the victims are all liars. Oh well, maybe sometime in the next ten years his earth shattering news will yield something.
The only evidence that Jerry was a molester, the accusations of the victims, may have been manufactured by the prosecution and their attorney, with the tacit approval of Penn State, which paid out about $100 million to them. Doesn't that mean anything to you?
No. It doesn the mean anything because that is pure fantasy. The man is a serial pedophile. Deal with it.
The "only" evidence was accusations by the victims? Not correct.
Jerry admitted to being in bed with Aaron Fisher, pulling him on top of him, kissing him.
He admitted to kissing boys and hugging naked boys while they were showering - in 1998.
The parent who came forward in 1998 wasn't looking for a pay day. She was looking out for her son. She didn't call a lawyer -- she called the boy's psychologist.
So after he's told to stop showering with boys in 1998, why did he continue to do so? Why was he turning on the showers before the workouts were halfway over? Why was he making the kids change clothes from clothes that fit to giant size gym shorts?
But I get it. You want physical evidence or videos or photos of the act in progress.
Well, it doesn't work that way.
The jury got to hear testimony, got to hear what Jerry readily confessed to -- which no person in their right mind would admit, and see circumstantial evidence (camper lists, participant lists, grooming gifts, letters, etc) that proved, beyond a reasonable doubt, that he was a child molester.
Again, if Jerry was in bed with 15 year old girls, you wouldn't have any reason to doubt molestation was going on.
Why can't you accept Jerry was attracted to boys?
My goodness, he was taking Dottie on dates to playgrounds.
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On a bed with, or having actual sex acts (like 100 times in one v's assertions)? 100 times Ray? You buy that, I have a rusty Jeep you might like.
He's a serial pedophile doing what serial pedophiles do. That's what he lived for.
You might care, but you don't mind. You blew your cover last week with that thread you started that allowed your Pitt pals to come aboard and verbally abuse us. Remember that thread? The one that got so vile it was deleted?
Anybody who takes you seriously after that little gem should have their heads examined.
Oh so he gets a pass for saying what some want to hear even if is unfounded. Roger that Capt H!!! Everyone else involved in this case but he and Jer bear are lying!!!!
Sadly enough short of an actual picture there are some on this site who will simply deny it. I really think it is some sort of denial as the truth is too disturbing to them. JZ has a few in the hook for life. The whole world was out to get him for the money!
The burden of proof does not lie with the accused, but with the accuser. With all the shenanigans pulled by the prosecution, Shubin, Penn State, Freeh....the list goes on, it's not unfair to question every aspect of this mess and that ultimately includes Sandusky's guilt or innocence. Justice should be served, but the ends do not justify the means. Nobody bothered to give him the presumption of innocence in 2011. Maybe he can get it in 2017.
I'm relatively convinced he didn't molest anyone in the Penn State facilities. If true, that's pretty important as it relates to the ancillary damage caused by this mess.
I don't believe he molested Matt Sandusky and I have serious doubts he molested Aaron Fisher. And if it should turn out to be true that all he did is inappropriately kiss a few boys with no real evidence of sexual intent, then maybe the man needs help. Spending the rest of his life in prison isn't serving that purpose.
An entire community was humiliated for turning a blind eye while a monster preyed on their young. I find it far more likely that the people of Penn State, State College and even TSM are good people who couldn't have seen what didn't happen.
I might argue with your conclusion that those things proved he was a child molester beyond a reasonable doubt. Where's the sexual intent? But you're right. Nobody in their right mind would admit to those things....especially if he was a notorious, serial, child predator.
You believe what you want, but you are wrong. Sandusky is perhaps the most deviant pedophile this country has ever seen. Whether you want to acknowledge it or not, the Commonwealth easily met it's burden of proof via the testimony of his victims. You talk about him needing help? No, he needs to rot.
What do you mean "where's the sexual intent?" Are you serious with such a stupid question?
He might be the most publicized and most politically correct target. But he isn't in the same galaxy as the "most deviant".
Sandusky's victims seemed to think he was the best thing that ever happened to them since sliced bread until they were convinced they could all become millionaires. The "most deviant" of pedos actually turn their victims IN TO sliced bread. They kill them. Violently, dead, and forever.
One of the things that concerns me and convinces me this is nothing more than a complete witch hunt is the total lack of curiosity and concern for the REAL Victims 2 and 8. If AM isn't Victim 2, then he probably knows who is, and that kid is probably dead. The chances of the REAL Victim 2 dying of natural causes between the McQueary incident and the conversation Jerry had with Raykovitz, and then AM in 2001 is slim to none. Yet the AG and prosecutors didn't, and still don't, give a sh!+.
Where's the murder investigation? If AM isn't the real Victim 2, some parent or relative out there HAS to wonder what the heck happened to their kid.
One of the counters to the argument that meyers isn't victim 2 is that the real victim could be dead. Wouldnt it be possible to get a list of all second mile kids that fit the age range of meyers in 2001 or kids that would have been in the age range based on mcquearys description and confirm if they are still alive? Not to mention getting a similar list of kids in general from Centre country and surrounding areas who may have been listed as missing or possibly dead? Given what I expect is a low violent crime rate for central pa you may not have many (if any) on such a list. I always thought the argument that the real victim 2 is dead may be relatively easy to confirm or at least lend credence to the theory by doing some research. Or maybe we could save time and just ask Raykovitz (sp?) and/or Heim if meyers is victim 2.
Ray by far has schooled so many people on the real facts of the case and Jerry's behavior. Yet he can be ignored for a guy in LA so desperately trying to make his name relevant and has only done the defense tactic of attacking the victims credibility. I truly hope that CSS didn't hide anything on purpose to cover for Jerry and I do have real doubts there, but they have yet to ever have their trial and speak on what actually occurred. If the Paterno's thought for a second Jerry was innocent they are not the type to simply lay down and comply as we have seen...yet they aren't carrying a flag to free Jerry. Nobody is, but maybe 20 people on this site, Dottie, and an attention grabbing radio guy who tries way too hard to stay relevant. Like I said...there has been no real concrete proof that all 8 lied or even just one other than AF isn't a model citizen. Yet Jerry testified to laying on a bed and kissing AF as a minor, but somehow, someway, that can be overlooked as someone just being weird? That is completely and utterly over the line unless you are a father putting that child to bed. That wasn't a normal behavior 20 years ago no matter how much you want to spin it Jerry is goofy. He put out that image on purpose. Even with other victims kind of saying the same thing and much more than just kissing on a bed, but somehow people choose to ignore that. I really wish PSU didn't f--k this thing up and pay the victims as that is the only thing that really gives people like you hope is that this was all done for money.
Again your only real concern is PSU first and it shines through so clearly in your posts. Matt didn't testify at Jerry's trial...so that is totally irrelevant to why Jerry is in prison. How does you not believing Matt who didn't testify prove Jerry is innocent if Matt did not testify at the trial? You doubt AF because JZ says he is a bad egg or other rumors out there that are pushed forward by whom....JZ. How come JZ never brings up the fact Jerry admitted to laying on a bed and kissing AF...doesn't further his cause and is a clear grooming behavior.
There are two separate issues...Jerry's trial and PSU's reaction to the whole thing. PSU (BoT) no doubt made horrible decisions and simply blamed these awful crimes on everyone but Jerry as did the media. I'm not defending the BoT nor the media as it was a ratings driven field day for them. The BoT really did jack this thing up trying to get the camera's elsewhere and the open checkbook was a joke as the man was retired already.
Jerry hid in plain site using his work with children as a cover for his sick and deviant behavior. Jerry ruined the lives of so many people not even including the victims, but yet you really don't want to see it or really I think you just can't wrap your head around it. Someday if actual concrete proof of the victims lying comes up...I'll be here and raise an eyebrow. That simply hasn't occurred yet and JZ attacking/stalking them a few years back didn't make it so.
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If one is deriving sexual pleasure from what they're doing, it IS a sex act. Child abuse is just as much about intent as it is about the actual act and nobody can judge Sandusky's intent but him. It boggles my mind that people attempt to qualify certain behaviors as better or worse than others. If a man was laying in bed with my teenage daughter, blowing raspberries on her stomach and kissing her, I'd be clamoring to have his nuts placed in a vise! But somehow, when Jerry does this to a teenage boy, it's not that bad?
That would be terrible, and grounds for a severe beating for the man. That said, I assume your teenage daughter wouldn't then go on to testify to 100 acts of sex forced upon her by the man when they didn't happen.
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