Top All-Time Individual Scorers at NCAA tournament

[CholleyVandine]

Interesting list by Alex Steen on The Open Mat of the top individual team point scorers all time at the NCAA tournament. Three PSU wrestlers are in the top 10 (with Cael at #1). Nolf and Nickal both have legit shots at cracking the top 10 next year.

https://news.theopenmat.com/blog/20...s-di-ncaa-wrestling-tournament-apr-28th-2018/

 

[Pennstate1985]

Bo would have to hit 25 points to crack the top 10. Doable, but still tough. He had 23 this year and 27.5 last year. He's a got a reachable shot.

Jason has to win the title next year and have one bonus point win to crack the top 10. A very good chance of that barring injury. To crack the top 5, he'd need 27 points. A tall order even for him. Max points is 30. The hope is that he returns to his 2017 form when he did score 27 at nationals.

 

[GOLDBANGER]

Thanks for the share Cholley, very interesting.

 

[matter7172]

Cael #1 in bonus points (27.5) with DT and Dan Gable tied for second at 27. What's amazing is that Gable did it in three years. Obviously, that would extrapolate to 36 bonus points in 4 years and would be a virtually unbreakable record.

 

[nitlion6]

Cael #1 in bonus points (27.5) with DT and Dan Gable tied for second at 27. What's amazing is that Gable did it in three years. Obviously, that would extrapolate to 36 bonus points in 4 years and would be a virtually unbreakable record.

The rules used to be 6 points for 1st period falls and 5 for 2nd, 3rd period falls. No idea if there was a difference in tournament scoring.
Not really sure when major decisions and superior decisions (pre tech) came onto play, but I imagine Gable maybe did not always have bonus opportunities similar to Cael and DT.

 

[Ban Basketball]

No John Lockhart nor Tony Nelson?!

Fake news!

 

[Gebmo]

Cael #1 in bonus points (27.5) with DT and Dan Gable tied for second at 27. What's amazing is that Gable did it in three years. Obviously, that would extrapolate to 36 bonus points in 4 years and would be a virtually unbreakable record.

As strange as it may sound, I think Gable is underrated as a wrestler. I was checking a bunch of lists of the all time greats, and while he is always high up, is typically lower (sometimes much) than I would put him. I put him right at the top in all areas (high school, college, international). Cael might be a tad higher for college since Gable lost one match (if you think that is the differentiator), but Gable dominated similarly (maybe even more) and of course couldn't wrestle as a freshman. Almost equal, and you can't get better than Gable in those other areas unless you are talking about longevity.

He was undefeated in high school and smoked everyone internationally for the short time he wrestled after college (then got coaching so retired). I can't think of a better overall wrestler and hard to be higher rated over a lifetime if you really look at what he accomplished from high school on. We do tend to remember what is more recent. Wilt is still the greatest!

I especially like winning the Olympic gold in 72 without giving up a point.

 

[RandyL]

I always consider Cael and Gable 1 and 1A, and never sure which is which.
Gable beat three 2x NCAA champs during his collegiate career.

 

[RoarLions1]

Cael #1 in bonus points (27.5) with DT and Dan Gable tied for second at 27. What's amazing is that Gable did it in three years. Obviously, that would extrapolate to 36 bonus points in 4 years and would be a virtually unbreakable record.

The rules used to be 6 points for 1st period falls and 5 for 2nd, 3rd period falls. No idea if there was a difference in tournament scoring.
Not really sure when major decisions and superior decisions (pre tech) came onto play, but I imagine Gable maybe did not always have bonus opportunities similar to Cael and DT.

Cael had 7 Falls, 5 TF's, and 6 Majors among his 20 wins at Championships. This amounts to his 27.5 Bonus Points.

Gable had 13 Falls, and 1 Major among his 16 wins, for 27 Bonus Points (13x2=26, plus 1 for the major, equals 27). Dan did have two years where he wrestled a pigtail bout, 1968 and 1970. In 1969, he ran the table, with 5 Falls in 5 bouts.

Dan's 1 point for a Major was an adjustment by the writer to make it apples-to-apples. Superior decisions started in 1972, and were worth 1/2 point, winning by 10. In 1976, superior decisions were 3/4 points, win by 12, and a Major decision (win by 8) was added and worth 1/2 point. The Major Decision, as we know it today, happened in 1995, worth 1 point, and Superior Decisions were replaced with Tech Falls, in 1988. They changed a couple more times, until 1997, when they became the 1.5 points we know today.

 

[horraybeer]

As strange as it may sound, I think Gable is underrated as a wrestler. I was checking a bunch of lists of the all time greats, and while he is always high up, is typically lower (sometimes much) than I would put him. I put him right at the top in all areas (high school, college, international). Cael might be a tad higher for college since Gable lost one match (if you think that is the differentiator), but Gable dominated similarly (maybe even more) and of course couldn't wrestle as a freshman. Almost equal, and you can't get better than Gable in those other areas unless you are talking about longevity.

He was undefeated in high school and smoked everyone internationally for the short time he wrestled after college (then got coaching so retired). I can't think of a better overall wrestler and hard to be higher rated over a lifetime if you really look at what he accomplished from high school on. We do tend to remember what is more recent. Wilt is still the greatest!

I especially like winning the Olympic gold in 72 without giving up a point.

Bobby Douglas and Lee Kemp remember beating Gable, even if you do not.

 

[horraybeer]

Just some perspective on how impressive the Kemp was, he was a 17 yeat-old true freshman that lost in the NCAA finals on a refs decision. Then went on to win three titles. He was 20 when he won his third title, 20. Logan Stieber was 21 when he won his first title.

 

[NoVa Lion]

Just some perspective on how impressive the Kemp was, he was a 17 yeat-old true freshman that lost in the NCAA finals on a refs decision. Then went on to win three titles. He was 20 when he won his third title, 20. Logan Stieber was 21 when he won his first title.

Your point would be better made if you didn't exaggerate. Kemp was 18 when he lost as a frosh and 21 when he won his 3rd title. Back when Kemp wrestled redshirting was almost unheard of so although he was younger than most it wasn't by much. OTOH, redshirting is pretty standard these days so a large percentage of redshirt frosh are 20 by the time they wrestle in their first NCAAs and some are 21. Mark Hall was 20 as a true frosh when he won NCAAs.

 

[horraybeer]

Ok. Kemp was 21 when he won his 3rd title 21, Steebler was 21 when he won his 1st. Mark Hall is not the all time score list Old man Steiblee is #2. So Hall is irrelevant(for now) I don't care for you to tell me how red shirts where, are, or will be. Steibler was 21 when he won his 1st title no matter how you try to justify it.

 

[NoVa Lion]

Ok. Kemp was 21 when he won his 3rd title 21, Steebler was 21 when he won his 1st. Mark Hall is not the all time score list Old man Steiblee is #2. So Hall is irrelevant(for now) I don't care for you to tell me how red shirts where, are, or will be. Steibler was 21 when he won his 1st title no matter how you try to justify it.

Got it. You don't want me to tell you anything or discuss anything reasonably. Just to be clear I didn't try to justify anything, just pointed out the facts. DONE.

 

[Gebmo]

Bobby Douglas and Lee Kemp remember beating Gable, even if you do not.

Actually I do. That was not my point though.

 

[matter7172]

Bo would have to hit 25 points to crack the top 10. Doable, but still tough. He had 23 this year and 27.5 last year. He's a got a reachable shot.

Jason has to win the title next year and have one bonus point win to crack the top 10. A very good chance of that barring injury. To crack the top 5, he'd need 27 points. A tall order even for him. Max points is 30. The hope is that he returns to his 2017 form when he did score 27 at nationals.

If both happen it will be extra sweet in that Kyle Dake will go out of the top 10 all the way to 12. And it will be sweet enough to have him out of the top 10 with just Nolf passing him.

 

[OkieSpladle]

No John Lockhart nor Tony Nelson?!

Fake news!

Anthony "Tony" Nelson is 73rd.

Lockhart scored two bonus points in his entire NCAA tournament career (on a Med FFT) and did not make the tournament as a freshman. 7-1-3 after that isn't nearly enough to make the list.

 

[a_mshaffer]

As strange as it may sound, I think Gable is underrated as a wrestler. I was checking a bunch of lists of the all time greats, and while he is always high up, is typically lower (sometimes much) than I would put him. I put him right at the top in all areas (high school, college, international). Cael might be a tad higher for college since Gable lost one match (if you think that is the differentiator), but Gable dominated similarly (maybe even more) and of course couldn't wrestle as a freshman. Almost equal, and you can't get better than Gable in those other areas unless you are talking about longevity.

He was undefeated in high school and smoked everyone internationally for the short time he wrestled after college (then got coaching so retired). I can't think of a better overall wrestler and hard to be higher rated over a lifetime if you really look at what he accomplished from high school on. We do tend to remember what is more recent. Wilt is still the greatest!

I especially like winning the Olympic gold in 72 without giving up a point.

sending 'another Russian to the salt mines!!'

 

[Ban Basketball]

Anthony "Tony" Nelson is 73rd.

Ah, well, I stand corrected then. Hard to picture that he would be 73rd in history, but facts are facts.

 

[El-Jefe]

Ah, well, I stand corrected then. Hard to picture that he would be 73rd in history, but facts are facts.

Harder yet to believe Gwiazdowski was 25 spots lower ... and would've been only 0.5 pts higher had he won the OT final vs. Snyder and been a 3x champ.

Demonstrates a limitation to the data.

 

[NoVa Lion]

Harder yet to believe Gwiazdowski was 25 spots lower ... and would've been only 0.5 pts higher had he won the OT final vs. Snyder and been a 3x champ.

Demonstrates a limitation to the data.

Why do you say that? The difference was bonus points as Nelson had a number of falls. Plus Nelson finished slightly better at 7-1-1-2 vs. Gwiz at 8-1-1-2.