Thread on testing & treatment research for COVID-19

[The Spin Meister]

As I've said here before, I spent a week in the hospital in January with all the symptoms and bi lateral pneumonia at 45 years old. I still have signs of inflammation in my lungs. I recently had a phone appointment with a pulmonologist and he said it's certainly suspicious and asked a lots of questions about travel, etc. I never left Pennsylvania for months at that point.

Anyway, I understand that a Z pack is part of the combo that is supposedly helping recovery. I read earlier in this thread that the reason is to fight the bacteria causing pneumonia. During my follow up appointment post hospital visit, my doctor strongly suggested that I get the pneumonia vaccine. It lasts for 20 years. Why isn't this being spoken about and used for protecting everyone especially the elderly??? Anyone over 65 can get the vaccine for free without a prescription!!!

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A possible contrarian position; some researchers are saying it is not a true pneumonia but rather a result of iron toxicity. If that is true the pneumonia vaccine will not have any affect for C19.

However, people should get the pneumonia vaccine anyway. Tons of people get pneumonia as a secondary infection or even after surgery.

 

[interrobang]

2000-patient outpatient study.

 

[SLUPSU]

2000-patient outpatient study.

? who are your responding to?

 

[ChiTownLion]

Decent overview of a few recent studies here:

Also worth scanning through the 200-plus comments below the article.

 

[tboyer]

Wow, incredible. If this is true, the people running the study should be fired. Why would they overdose people when overdose risk is well known. That's like giving people 5 grams of Tylenol and then writing a study saying -- Eureka! this pill causes liver failure.

From the article:

Roughly half the study participants were given a dose of 450 milligrams of chloroquine twice daily for five days, while the rest were prescribed a higher dose of 600 milligrams for 10 days. Within three days, researchers started noticing heart arrhythmias in patients taking the higher dose. By the sixth day of treatment, 11 patients had died, leading to an immediate end to the high-dose segment of the trial.

The researchers said the study did not have enough patients in the lower-dose portion of the trial to conclude if chloroquine was effective in patients with severe disease. More studies evaluating the drug earlier in the course of the disease are “urgently needed,” the researchers said.

 

[tboyer]

Here's a weird one showing up in multiple countries' data. Cigarette smokers are underrepresented among severe covid-19 cases. You'd expect the opposite.

 

[ChiTownLion]

 

[ChiTownLion]

 

[NedFromYork]

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What about with zinc? The theory is the HCL allows the zinc to be absorbed/bind better with virus and stop/slow replication.

 

[NedFromYork]

https://nypost.com/2020/04/11/doctors-pols-urge-use-of-miracle-coronavirus-drug-cocktail/

 

[ChiTownLion]

 

[rudedude]

 

[rudedude]

 

[rigi11]

What about with zinc? The theory is the HCL allows the zinc to be absorbed/bind better with virus and stop/slow replication.

Evidence shows it works with zinc. #science

 

[jwarigaku]

ChiTown,

You’re better than this...this is the same guy that posted South Dakota is one of the hot spots because they were resistant to shelter in place. They have 868 documented cases and 6 deaths.

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[ericstratton-rushchairman]

Well... one upside to the Covid-19 outbreak is the pneumonia mortality rate has literally dropped off the table.

 

[The Song Remains the Same]

Well... one upside to the Covid-19 outbreak is the pneumonia mortality rate has literally dropped off the table.

Hmmmmmmm

 

[ChiTownLion]

Well... one upside to the Covid-19 outbreak is the pneumonia mortality rate has literally dropped off the table.

Sounds like pneumonia deaths are possibly being classified as Coronavirus deaths.

ChiTown,

You’re better than this...this is the same guy that posted South Dakota is one of the hot spots because they were resistant to shelter in place. They have 868 documented cases and 6 deaths.

Which tweet are you referencing? I try to share relevant news and information that is both good and bad in the search for a vaccine.

 

[ericstratton-rushchairman]

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Sounds like pneumonia deaths are possibly being classified as Coronavirus deaths.

Which tweet are you referencing? I try to share relevant news and information that is both good and bad in the search for a vaccine.

Great find from the NEJM... and yes, I was being a bit sarcastic about the pneumonia data as it seems crystal clear that the covid-19 mortality figures are overly inflated. Nothing moves the voting masses like fear. I am not saying this is a terrible outbreak I am just pointing out that strong data suggests it may not be what we all think.

 

[jwarigaku]

Yashar Ali

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Sounds like pneumonia deaths are possibly being classified as Coronavirus deaths.

Which tweet are you referencing? I try to share relevant news and information that is both good and bad in the search for a vaccine.

 

[ChiTownLion]

Great find from the NEJM... and yes, I was being a bit sarcastic about the pneumonia data as it seems crystal clear that the covid-19 mortality figures are overly inflated. Nothing moves the voting masses like fear. I am not saying this is a terrible outbreak I am just pointing out that strong data suggests it may not be what we all think.

 

[ChiTownLion]

 

[tboyer]

A lot of reading and very technical, but a good daily blog that a lot of the docs are reading:
https://emergencymedicinecases.com/faq-items/covid-19-update-april-12th-2020/

The writer says there will be a lot of clinical trial data reported in the next 10-12 days. Also saw Cuomo said something about an initial data report in April. So some of these huge questions will begin to get some answers.

Meanwhile there was an interesting interview with Raoult, the Marseille researcher. It's video in French; translations available on twitter if you search.

Raoult says cases are dropping around the world and he doesn't know why (presumably social distancing doesn't fully explain it) -- they were seeing 300 new patients a day at his clinic and now it's dropped to 50-60. Says it's possible the epidemic will just kind of peter out seasonally like epidemics often do. Keep in mind this is a guy who's been working on infectious diseases in the developing world for 40 years, so he's seen it all.

Also observes that covid death rates are looking higher in a lot of wealthy western countries than in Asia and third world that use cheaper drugs and therapies. They have no choice, but sometimes cheaper is more effective, Raoult says.

 

[Obliviax]

NY shows the first decline in C-19 hospitalizations in almost a month:

 

[NedFromYork]

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By itself this result is not unexpected, the therapy in question is HCL, arithromyacin, and zinc.

 

[The Spin Meister]

A lot of reading and very technical, but a good daily blog that a lot of the docs are reading:
https://emergencymedicinecases.com/faq-items/covid-19-update-april-12th-2020/


Raoult says cases are dropping around the world and he doesn't know why (presumably social distancing doesn't fully explain it) -- they were seeing 300 new patients a day at his clinic and now it's dropped to 50-60. Says it's possible the epidemic will just kind of peter out seasonally like epidemics often do. Keep in mind this is a guy who's been working on infectious diseases in the developing world for 40 years, so he's seen it all.

Three possibilities; Or a combo;

The isolation has really worked better than expected. As a corollary, the bug may not be as contagious as thought so that social distancing works better than anticipated.

The winter is over and like the flu it is waning as summer approaches. Could re-emerge in the fall.

Or we have achieved herd immunity or close to it. This could be true if you believe that the virus has been going around since late Dec and a lot more people have had it. Lots of people say they were sick in Dec/Jan like they have never been sick before.

I think it is all three. I have been saying all along this wasn't as contagious as thought. So even some social isolation makes a big difference. Combined with better weather and enough people have had it that it is spreading much slower now.

 

[dbsteel]

Well... one upside to the Covid-19 outbreak is the pneumonia mortality rate has literally dropped off the table.

Well, if this is real, it really is interesting. Kind of makes you wonder.

 

[dbsteel]

Three possibilities; Or a combo;

The isolation has really worked better than expected. As a corollary, the bug may not be as contagious as thought so that social distancing works better than anticipated.

The winter is over and like the flu it is waning as summer approaches. Could re-emerge in the fall.

Or we have achieved herd immunity or close to it. This could be true if you believe that the virus has been going around since late Dec and a lot more people have had it. Lots of people say they were sick in Dec/Jan like they have never been sick before.

I think it is all three. I have been saying all along this wasn't as contagious as thought. So even some social isolation makes a big difference. Combined with better weather and enough people have had it that it is spreading much slower now.

You are probably right- its all three. I've heard a couple guys say the virus is pretty easy to kill. If you just clean your hands and keep them away from your face, you won't get it.

 

[CentexLion]

You are probably right- its all three. I've heard a couple guys say the virus is pretty easy to kill. If you just clean your hands and keep them away from your face, you won't get it.

Patient 0 in Michigan?

 

[dbsteel]

Patient 0 in Michigan?

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Ya-he's in trouble.

 

[ChiTownLion]

 

[Obliviax]

Former NW football player I played in the ‘96 rose bowl


Emergency room doctor, near death with coronavirus, saved with experimental treatment

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.la...3/coworkers-save-coronavirus-doctor?_amp=true

 

[interrobang]

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Which of course doesn't mean they can't be prescribed it (since, if you're being prescribed it, you're likely not flying within 2 days anyway). Just they can't self-medicate.

 

[Steve G]

Former NW football player I played in the ‘96 rose bowl


Emergency room doctor, near death with coronavirus, saved with experimental treatment

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.latimes.com/world-nation/story/2020-04-13/coworkers-save-coronavirus-doctor?_amp=true

there are a number of trials and compassionate use protocols for a variety of different anti IL-6 agents like Acterma described in your link. These might hold the key to managing the severe ARDS that develops late in some of these patients leading to respiratory failure ad multi organ failure.

 

[The Spin Meister]

there are a number of trials and compassionate use protocols for a variety of different anti IL-6 agents like Acterma described in your link. These might hold the key to managing the severe ARDS that develops late in some of these patients leading to respiratory failure ad multi organ failure.

Steve any thoughts on the reports that the virus attacks hemoglobin and releases iron radicals and that is what causes much of the damage. Also is it better to use CPAPs w high O2 instead of ventilaters?

 

[ChiTownLion]

Larger images:

 

[dailybuck777]

Plasma seems to be having success with severely ill patients. See most recent posts at this link. https://twitter.com/niro60487270

 

[Tom McAndrew]

 

[psu_et_vt]

Not only is there zero peer reviewed controlled clinical evidence in the malaria drugs being effective against COVID-19, but the fear amongst the medical community is that the heart damaging side effects of these drugs may be much more of a concern than any possible benefit.

 

[Tom McAndrew]