Stupid NIL question ❓

[GogglesPaizano]

Can someone clarify this question that has been eating at me?

NIL compliance was to specifically exclude pay for play, namely setting up football agreements where a 3rd party was paying a recruit to play at a select university.

I guess the theory being a top athelete has intrinsic Name, Image and Likeness marketing value. Whom ever is paying for said likeness, can purchase that value independent of the kid playing for the University.

In theory this seemed to imply that a kid's profile, social media presence, and likeness has value in the market, shirt off wearing a specific jersey. I.e. RBY once he had achieved his own high profile on social media.

So let's take a new example like Aaron Nagao. If Bob N sees let's say $150k in value. (let's assume the University offered $100k in scholy money) in Aaron for NIL, isn't that offer prohibited from being tied to his wrestling for the Hawks specifically?

Can't an athelete sign NIL deals all over the place and again 'in theory' then sign to play anywhere they want? Likewise if the NIL offer is rescinded once a kid signs elsewhere, isn't this a defacto violation?

It sure seems to me that every kid who 'turns down' an offer seems to prove these deals are absolutely pay to play by their nature, quid pro quo deals tied to a specific school.

Reference - https://www.si.com/fannation/colleg... disallowed by,going to any particular school.

"Two things remain disallowed by NCAA rules: 1) you can't pay a player, and, 2) no quid pro quo.

Players aren't supposed to get any compensation tied for performance, and recruits cannot sign any NIL deal contingent on going to any particular school."

I haven't heard of an NIL deal yet that doesn't seemingly violate these specific tenants. As soon as Aaron was offered by 'Iowa' can he not then accept get the money while still signing with PSU?

The only legit out might be a requirement to appear at a specific location say every Saturday morning for marketing activities.

 

[dms87]

I don't think it is a stupid question at all. We all suspect the deals are written to say one thing but actually work in violation of your two rules above. The question remain who owns oversight of the deals and how/whether they meet the rules? They is no SEC (securities not conference) like entity playing watchdog. There is no big roll up nationally of how all schools are handling this either for oversight and accountability, that I know of yet. I haven't read deeply enough to understand the penalties for infractions but it seem like each school would have to call themselves out. Compliance officers must be drowning in this stuff.

What is NIL? NCAA Rule Explained

Learn more about the new NCAA rules regarding the for-profit use of a student-athlete’s name, image and likeness for endorsements or promotions.

www.ncsasports.org

Are colleges/universities creating their own NIL rules?​

Yes, each individual school has oversight of NIL deals and the right to object to a deal if it conflicts with existing agreements. To help manage this process, some schools are turning to companies like Opendorse and INFLCR, which offers a platform for athletes to upload their NIL contracts for the compliance department to review and approve.

Athletes are expected to understand their school’s NIL policy and keep their school informed of all NIL arrangements. The best way to ensure student-athletes understand school-specific NIL rules is to work directly with their coaching and the compliance department. Check here for a list of institutions with NIL rules and regulations in place.

 

[Random4598375]

Can someone clarity this question that has been eating at me?

NIL compliance was to specifically exclude pay for play, namely setting up football agreements where a 3rd party was paying a recruit to play at a select university.

I guess the theory being a top athelete has intrinsic Name, Image and Likeness marketing value. Whom ever is paying for said likeness, can purchase that value independent of the kid playing for the University.

In theory this seemed to imply that a kid's profile, social media presence, and likeness has value in the market, shirt off wearing a specific jersey. I.e. RBY once he had achieved his own high profile on social media.

So let's take a new example like Aaron Nagao. If Bob N sees let's say $150k in value. (let's assume the University offered $100k in scholy money) in Aaron for NIL, isn't that offer prohibited from being tied to his wrestling for the Hawks specifically?

Can't an athelete sign NIL deals all over the place and again 'in theory' then sign to play anywhere they want? Likewise if the NIL offer is rescinded once a kid signs elsewhere, isn't this a defacto violation?

It sure seems to me that every kid who 'turns down' an offer seems to prove these deals are absolutely pay to play by their nature, quid pro quo deals tied to a specific school.

Reference - https://www.si.com/fannation/college/cfb-hq/ncaa-football/college-football-nil-rule-changes-what-you-need-to-know#:~:text=Two things remain disallowed by,going to any particular school.

"Two things remain disallowed by NCAA rules: 1) you can't pay a player, and, 2) no quid pro quo.

Players aren't supposed to get any compensation tied for performance, and recruits cannot sign any NIL deal contingent on going to any particular school."

I haven't heard of an NIL deal yet that doesn't seemingly violate these specific tenants. As soon as Aaron was offered by 'Iowa' can he not then accept get the money while still signing with PSU?

The only legit out might be a requirement to appear at a specific location say every Saturday morning for marketing activities.

This is an interesting question. I don't know the specifics of the rules, but philosophically, yes, the intention of NIL is to allow a student-athlete to benefit from the "celebrity" that they've achieved through their own performance. Again, without knowing the specific rules, philosophically, someone like Slumlord Millionaire could attach the NIL to wrestling at Iowa if the celebrity status that he derives benefit from is also tied to wrestling for Iowa. In other words, if he "hired" an Iowa wrestler to do commercials for an apartment complex in Iowa City and that wrestler transfers to Iowa St instead, then that could clearly affect the value that the NIL contract brings to the apartment. The real question is what is the intent of the buyer of the NIL. Was he just paying a kid to wrestle for Iowa? Or was he paying a kid for NIL benefit that is truly only a benefit if the kid is wrestling for Iowa? The former violates the intended purpose of NIL contracts, but the latter does not.

 

[TheRealSmee]

Can someone clarify this question that has been eating at me?

NIL compliance was to specifically exclude pay for play, namely setting up football agreements where a 3rd party was paying a recruit to play at a select university.

I guess the theory being a top athelete has intrinsic Name, Image and Likeness marketing value. Whom ever is paying for said likeness, can purchase that value independent of the kid playing for the University.

In theory this seemed to imply that a kid's profile, social media presence, and likeness has value in the market, shirt off wearing a specific jersey. I.e. RBY once he had achieved his own high profile on social media.

So let's take a new example like Aaron Nagao. If Bob N sees let's say $150k in value. (let's assume the University offered $100k in scholy money) in Aaron for NIL, isn't that offer prohibited from being tied to his wrestling for the Hawks specifically?

Can't an athelete sign NIL deals all over the place and again 'in theory' then sign to play anywhere they want? Likewise if the NIL offer is rescinded once a kid signs elsewhere, isn't this a defacto violation?

It sure seems to me that every kid who 'turns down' an offer seems to prove these deals are absolutely pay to play by their nature, quid pro quo deals tied to a specific school.

Reference - https://www.si.com/fannation/college/cfb-hq/ncaa-football/college-football-nil-rule-changes-what-you-need-to-know#:~:text=Two things remain disallowed by,going to any particular school.

"Two things remain disallowed by NCAA rules: 1) you can't pay a player, and, 2) no quid pro quo.

Players aren't supposed to get any compensation tied for performance, and recruits cannot sign any NIL deal contingent on going to any particular school."

I haven't heard of an NIL deal yet that doesn't seemingly violate these specific tenants. As soon as Aaron was offered by 'Iowa' can he not then accept get the money while still signing with PSU?

The only legit out might be a requirement to appear at a specific location say every Saturday morning for marketing activities.

Here's a LINK directly to the horse's (NCAA's) mouth. This is (to my knowledge) the most current guidance from them on the topic. That some of the "clarifications" seem to fly in the face of the pay-to-play language you used that is also in the original NCAA announcement HERE is not lost on many folks. Look, I don't like the NCAA (as you may be aware), and their initial statements were made (I think) because that's what they wanted to believe would happen (haha), and because it comported with their desire to appear as a supporter of virtuous amateurism. Otherwise many of their enforcement actions of the last several decades suddenly look like so many cheap shots. Bottom line is that when you write "It sure seems to me that every kid who 'turns down' an offer seems to prove these deals are absolutely pay to play by their nature, quid pro quo deals tied to a specific school", that's because they are pay-to-play, NCAA be damned.

 

[CSauertiegPSU]

The important thing to remember through all of this is that congress has essentially rendered the NCAA powerless.

 

[baccafarmer]

The important thing to remember through all of this is that congress has essentially rendered the NCAA powerless.

What? Congress got something good done! Seems improbable!

 

[CSauertiegPSU]

What? Congress got something good done! Seems improbable!

I think legally their determinations were sound. I’m not sure it’ll end up a good thing. Lots of concern about the future of non-revenue sports and small school athletics.

 

[WreslingFan0314]

My take is simple, yet many may not agree. Let me preface by saying I am not intending to say the NCAA is all good and smelling like roses. There are problems for sure.

The reason the NCAA makes/has made up so many convoluted rules that don't seem to make sense is simple. For every rule, guidance, benefit allowed, etc. coaches, boosters, administrators and whoever else will work overtime to circumvent said rule so it is to their advantage. I swear half the rules in the books are just there because they had to make new rules because coaches, etc. found/created loopholes with previous rules.

So hell yeah, NIL is being used as Pay for Play in many circumstances. It's just another example of those taking something intended for good and stretching it well beyond it's intention.

I said long ago, as soon as this was allowed, guys would be getting paid $10k for signing bar napkins in the name of Name, Image and Likeness. I was wrong, it's way worse and those in the middle are much smarter about how to stretch it. I'm not referring specifically to wrestling, but all sports in general.

 

[NoVa Lion]

The important thing to remember through all of this is that congress has essentially rendered the NCAA powerless.

Congress? Pretty sure it was the Supreme Court.

 

[Rip_E_2_Joe_PA]

Can someone clarify this question that has been eating at me?

NIL compliance was to specifically exclude pay for play, namely setting up football agreements where a 3rd party was paying a recruit to play at a select university.

I guess the theory being a top athelete has intrinsic Name, Image and Likeness marketing value. Whom ever is paying for said likeness, can purchase that value independent of the kid playing for the University.

In theory this seemed to imply that a kid's profile, social media presence, and likeness has value in the market, shirt off wearing a specific jersey. I.e. RBY once he had achieved his own high profile on social media.

So let's take a new example like Aaron Nagao. If Bob N sees let's say $150k in value. (let's assume the University offered $100k in scholy money) in Aaron for NIL, isn't that offer prohibited from being tied to his wrestling for the Hawks specifically?

Can't an athelete sign NIL deals all over the place and again 'in theory' then sign to play anywhere they want? Likewise if the NIL offer is rescinded once a kid signs elsewhere, isn't this a defacto violation?

It sure seems to me that every kid who 'turns down' an offer seems to prove these deals are absolutely pay to play by their nature, quid pro quo deals tied to a specific school.

Reference - https://www.si.com/fannation/college/cfb-hq/ncaa-football/college-football-nil-rule-changes-what-you-need-to-know#:~:text=Two things remain disallowed by,going to any particular school.

"Two things remain disallowed by NCAA rules: 1) you can't pay a player, and, 2) no quid pro quo.

Players aren't supposed to get any compensation tied for performance, and recruits cannot sign any NIL deal contingent on going to any particular school."

I haven't heard of an NIL deal yet that doesn't seemingly violate these specific tenants. As soon as Aaron was offered by 'Iowa' can he not then accept get the money while still signing with PSU?

The only legit out might be a requirement to appear at a specific location say every Saturday morning for marketing activities.

Yet, what NIL values based upon but performance or perceived ability to perform. Nothing!

 

[Folkstylefan]

For all the people who bitched about the NCAA overreaching power and “dumb rules”, now your getting what you wished for. For those that can remember how the SEC used to have athletes play ball and never really go to class (getting a degree while still being illiterate), till NCAA stopped it. Guess we might as well do the same across the country because college sports is more important than a college education.

 

[baccafarmer]

For all the people who bitched about the NCAA overreaching power and “dumb rules”, now your getting what you wished for. For those that can remember how the SEC used to have athletes play ball and never really go to class (getting a degree while still being illiterate), till NCAA stopped it. Guess we might as well do the same across the country because college sports is more important than a college education.

My problem with the NCAA was that it lost its way. It originally served to coordinate a set of rules that provided competitive bounds. Over the years, financial engineers increasingly shifted the focus of the NCAA to boost its own profits (salaries) and jealously guard its monopoly status. They provided administrative and promotional support of championship events, but, if you look at their “COST structure” over the 1980 to 2020 timeframe you will see that “administration” consumed an ever increasing percentage of overall costs. As an organization, they became too top heavy and drifted too far away from their original purpose. Yes; NIL is way far over the top. It represents a big pendulum swing. What we need now is a new forum to coordinate mutually acceptable guidelines for college athletics ….. especially for sports outside Football and basketball (who are already fully “professionalized). Perhaps the University Presidents can convene a groups of wise heads to design a new mechanism to bring balance and a modicum of honor to college athletics.

 

[Rip_E_2_Joe_PA]

My problem with the NCAA was that it lost its way. It originally served to coordinate a set of rules that provided competitive bounds. Over the years, financial engineers increasingly shifted the focus of the NCAA to boost its own profits (salaries) and jealously guard its monopoly status. They provided administrative and promotional support of championship events, but, if you look at their “COST structure” over the 1980 to 2020 timeframe you will see that “administration” consumed an ever increasing percentage of overall costs. As an organization, they became too top heavy and drifted too far away from their original purpose. Yes; NIL is way far over the top. It represents a big pendulum swing. What we need now is a new forum to coordinate mutually acceptable guidelines for college athletics ….. especially for sports outside Football and basketball (who are already fully “professionalized). Perhaps the University Presidents can convene a groups of wise heads to design a new mechanism to bring balance and a modicum of honor to college athletics.

Money won't let any new forum happen unless the whole financial structure collapses. Which it may but not in the near future.

 

[El-Jefe]

For all the people who bitched about the NCAA overreaching power and “dumb rules”, now your getting what you wished for. For those that can remember how the SEC used to have athletes play ball and never really go to class (getting a degree while still being illiterate), till NCAA stopped it. Guess we might as well do the same across the country because college sports is more important than a college education.

Thr NCAA stopped it, LOL. Tell that to Julius Peppers. Or for those without NFL careers, to the Oklahoma football players who weren't qualified to work at car dealerships. Etc.