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Stoll MIA vs Lehigh

CholleyVandine said:
That would have changed nothing the past two weekends.

Brands has behaved like a coach who wants to win regular season duals.

Last week, with the outcome in the balance, he let his dinged up athlete go out to compete.

This week, with the dual locked up, he kept his dinged up athlete off the mat to give him another week to heal before Midlands.

That is a rational decision and probably in the best interest of his athlete and his program.

All due respect to the PSU fans complaining about this, but if I were Brands, I would tell you to stick your “ducking” claims up your a$$.
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You could have picked a better post to quote for that last sentence since you can’t find any post I’ve made here or on HR saying there’s ducking. Not a single one. But as far as you saying he showed he wanted to win a dual, that’s exactly why my question was relevant.
 
CholleyVandine said:
That would have changed nothing the past two weekends.

Brands has behaved like a coach who wants to win regular season duals.

Last week, with the outcome in the balance, he let his dinged up athlete go out to compete.

This week, with the dual locked up, he kept his dinged up athlete off the mat to give him another week to heal before Midlands.

That is a rational decision and probably in the best interest of his athlete and his program.

All due respect to the PSU fans complaining about this, but if I were Brands, I would tell you to stick your “ducking” claims up your a$$.
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The holes in your logic are Grand Canyon sized. If he was well enough to compete last week against ISU, then barring it getting worse, he was likely even MORE READY to compete this week after 6 days of treatment and therapy. The rivalry is IRRELEVANT. Could he have wrestled this week? Yes or no? The answer is obviously yes and he didn't go. Draw your own conclusions as to why, it doesn't matter. He was well enough to go and he sat. Period.
 
CholleyVandine said:
That would have changed nothing the past two weekends.

Brands has behaved like a coach who wants to win regular season duals.

Last week, with the outcome in the balance, he let his dinged up athlete go out to compete.

This week, with the dual locked up, he kept his dinged up athlete off the mat to give him another week to heal before Midlands.

That is a rational decision and probably in the best interest of his athlete and his program.

All due respect to the PSU fans complaining about this, but if I were Brands, I would tell you to stick your “ducking” claims up your a$$.
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I agree with this. I think that Brands thought it was very important to win that match. Stolls performance to me indicates he is not near 100% and hes still probably not good enough to go against a guy like Wood.

I don't think any fans of any team or journalists should be criticizing this.

I also don't think there is a dual or an in season tournament that exists - ever - where the PSU staff would make a decision like this. They would send out the backup that they had prepared as best they could and let the chips fall where they may - trusting depth of their program, win or lose. I don't think this is exclusive to the PSU staff. I've see this happen over and over through the years in different sports and at different levels. Probably what I would call an analytical approach versus an emotional one.

Obviously there is a place for both in in sports - we see examples of each all over the place - and both have their pros and cons. In my experience, at least anecdotally, one type of staff tends to win more championships.
 
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No question this was a duck, in the sense that Iowa purposely held out Stoll when he was ready and able to go. Brands acknowledged that in his post-dual presser (starts near the end with about 22 secs left). But not all ducks are created equal. Coaches have to make such decisions based on what's in the best interest of the wrestler and the program. Ducking to protect a seed is bogus and unsportsmanlike IMO. Having a pattern of ducking is also problematic.

 
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PSUbluTX said:
No question this was a duck, in the sense that Iowa purposely held out Stoll when he was ready and able to go. Brands acknowledged that in his post-dual presser (starts near the end with about 22 secs left). But not all ducks are created equal. Coaches have to make such decisions based on what's in the best interest of the wrestler and the program. Ducking to protect a seed is bogus and unsportsmanlike IMO. Having a pattern of ducking is also problematic.

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There must be a major penalty for ducking good wrestlers for seeding purposes. It’s getting wayyy out of hand.
 
I'll take Quotes for 285 Alex:
"It's Wabbit Season." "It's Duck Season" "It's Wabbit Season" "In This State It's Always Duck Season"
"What are Things Bugs Bunny Never Said to Elmer" Correct :)
 
What's getting out of hand is all this "ducking" talk. Iowa doesn't duck to protect a seed anymore than PSU does. This is not the mentality of any high level D1 wrestler or coach. Stoll will have to prove himself just like everyone else.
 
Sorry about the rant, but it was Iowa State and we needed him. If our other guys had performed better he wouldn't have wrestled there either. ISU is a decades old rivalry that is a big deal us Iowa wrestling fans. Brands trying to make deals relevant.

That being said it does seem like our coaches are a bit "too" careful with Stoll. Most likely due to his history of knee injuries. Last season they didn't send him out against Snyder and just conceded the dual loss.
 
IaGodsCountry said:
What's getting out of hand is all this "ducking" talk. Iowa doesn't duck to protect a seed anymore than PSU does. This is not the mentality of any high level D1 wrestler or coach. Stoll will have to prove himself just like everyone else.
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That used to be a true statement.
 
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IaGodsCountry said:
That being said it does seem like our coaches are a bit "too" careful with Stoll. Most likely due to his history of knee injuries. Last season they didn't send him out against Snyder and just conceded the dual loss.
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Yes. They are especially careful when they think there is a good chance he will lose a match - even if it means losing a dual meet. :rolleyes:
 
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What are guys going to do next year when Stoll is gone? Probably be wishing he wasn’t as you watch Cassioppi putting the big boys to their backs.
 
Cali_Nittany said:
Another Iowa thread. Yay.
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It's like the Pitt threads on The Lions Den or Tom's all-sports board -- we swear up and down they're not worth our time or attention, yet we can't stop posting and talking (negatively, of course) about them.
 
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nitlion6 said:
Yes, but the television ratings would be special. They would also place a different sense of urgency into ducking.

Just a side thought.
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FWIW, I would be looking for a reason to duck a duel, especially against Nolf. Those Matrix guys can dodge bullets, right?
 
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Most wrestlers are never 100%. It's the nature of sports. If they're not healthy enough to wrestle, they should not be in uniform.
 
Yes too careful when the dual is on the line and they felt there was no way he was going to pin Snyder. I don't like it cause they conceded the dual, but Stoll losing to Snyder in no way would have hurt his seed since Snyder was expected to win.
 
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jmadden1998 said:
What are guys going to do next year when Stoll is gone? Probably be wishing he wasn’t as you watch Cassioppi putting the big boys to their backs.
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Cassioppi is truly a stud who will make some noise next year. I'll give you that.

The thing about Stoll going in the ISU match for me is that it seemed like another Brands "throw me" moment. For Stoll to be dressed, warmed up, ready to go and Brands very publicly waiting for him on the mat where others were sure to hear and see his "I don't want this"/face slap moment.... Just feels too choreographed to have happened that way naturally. And then to ensure the correct narrative was repeated, Brands unilaterally brings up his "private" encounter and conversation with Stoll about the whole thing. That's a lot to swallow. If you're going to send him out because a huge rivalry is on the line, just do it and own the moment. No need for the theatrics.
 
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PSUbluTX said:
Cassioppi is truly a stud who will make some noise next year. I'll give you that.

The thing about Stoll going in the ISU match for me is that it seemed like another Brands "throw me" moment. For Stoll to be dressed, warmed up, ready to go and Brands very publicly waiting for him on the mat where others were sure to hear and see his "I don't want this"/face slap moment.... Just feels too choreographed to have happened that way naturally. And then to ensure the correct narrative was repeated, Brands unilaterally brings up his "private" encounter and conversation with Stoll about the whole thing. That's a lot to swallow. If you're going to send him out because a huge rivalry is on the line, just do it and own the moment. No need for the theatrics.
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Our coach likes theatrics. If everyone were the same it would be boring
 
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We are not talking about Stoll anymore. If Cassioppi is major injury free and Brands sits him next year against a top 10 opponent, I will be the first to disagree
 
@PSUbluTX, it was a moment for the Iowa fans in this instance, and all fan bases need these. Corey Clark's throw, made sport center, good for wrestling fans. This is much more prevalent in football, like PSUs touchdown pass as time ran out last year.
 
jmadden1998 said:
What are guys going to do next year when Stoll is gone? Probably be wishing he wasn’t as you watch Cassioppi putting the big boys to their backs.
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Still plenty of time to brow beat that aggressiveness out of him. Maintain good position, hand fight, push, push, push and wait for the stall call. Plenty of time to get him trained properly.
 
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IaGodsCountry said:
Yes too careful when the dual is on the line and they felt there was no way he was going to pin Snyder. I don't like it cause they conceded the dual, but Stoll losing to Snyder in no way would have hurt his seed since Snyder was expected to win.
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I understand you Iowa guys are new to the sport, but a loss will hurt your seed.

IaGodsCountry said:
Yeah, Iowa's attendance sucked last year.
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Yes. Less than 50% of capacity on average, iirc. Agreed.
 
nitlion6 said:
Still plenty of time to brow beat that aggressiveness out of him. Maintain good position, hand fight, push, push, push and wait for the stall call. Plenty of time to get him trained properly.
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Cass has a strong will like Spencer. Can’t brow beat it out of them.
 
Well their average attendance was 8996/dual which is greater than 50% capacity, but anyway this is wrestling and are you seriously giving Iowa a hard time for their low attendance? Its really not Iowa's fault that PSU doesn't hold all their home duals at BJC.

Furthermore, a loss by anyone to Snyder last year wouldn't hurt anyone's seed. Do you seriously think that?
 
jmadden1998 said:
Cass has a strong will like Spencer. Can’t brow beat it out of them.
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First - the list of fellow wrestlers who should be mentioned as "like Spencer" is very limited. No Cass is not on that list.

Second - TnT are very strong willed coaches. They are quite capable of getting that position, hand-fight, push, stall call mentality instilled. Part of the 3" binder Larry gave Tom forbids TnT from browbeating Spencer.
 
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nitlion6 said:
First - the list of fellow wrestlers who should be mentioned as "like Spencer" is very limited. No Cass is not on that list.

Second - TnT are very strong willed coaches. They are quite capable of getting that position, hand-fight, push, stall call mentality instilled. Part of the 3" binder Larry gave Tom forbids TnT from browbeating Spencer.
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Just giving an example of a current Iowa wrestler who doesn’t wrestle that way. So far Cass has 11 wins, 10 by fall. Seems to be wrestling the opposite of the way you describe. I’ll throw Marinelli in there too.
 
IaGodsCountry said:
Well their average attendance was 8996/dual which is greater than 50% capacity, but anyway this is wrestling and are you seriously giving Iowa a hard time for their low attendance? Its really not Iowa's fault that PSU doesn't hold all their home duals at BJC.

Furthermore, a loss by anyone to Snyder last year wouldn't hurt anyone's seed. Do you seriously think that?
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More than half of their meets are at less than 50% capacity. One sellout skews the results. Oh wait, Iowa didn't have any sellouts in 2017-18. The only reason Iowa isn't second on the list is because Penn State doesn't wrestle every match at BJC. Do you really want Iowa's only bragging right taken away? Penn State sold out every match in 2017-18. It's apples and oranges, but I'd rather be the apple and sell out every match than the orange of 0 sellouts.

https://admin.hawkeyesports.com/sto...r-12th-consecutive-season&file_date=4/10/2018

If I have to explain to you how seeding and losses work, it's not worth my time. Let's just do the short version and say that under anything except very, very unusual circumstances not present in Stoll's case (like the #2 seed having one loss on the year to the #1 seed going into the match), a loss always hurts your seeding.
 
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jmadden1998 said:
Just giving an example of a current Iowa wrestler who doesn’t wrestle that way. So far Cass has 11 wins, 10 by fall. Seems to be wrestling the opposite of the way you describe. I’ll throw Marinelli in there too.
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Marinelli had 28% bonus last year. I'll reply to your response of his 100% bonus this year. AM highest ranked opponent (per wrestlestat) is 82. Funny you rip Mark Hall for his 65% bonus rate for being boring, but praise Marinelli.
 
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Yeah matter7172, we're inferior to PSU, like I said, seems like it's a PSU problem their duals aren't held BJC maybe you all should change that.

This year @125, Spencer Lee is # 1, Rivera is ranked #2, if Rivera loses to Lee and those are his only losses, he will still be seeded at 2.
 
jmadden1998 said:
This board must be intrigued because there are a lot of folks commenting on TNT’s every move
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Only because it causes frustration in IC.
IaGodsCountry said:
Yeah matter7172, we're inferior to PSU, like I said, seems like it's a PSU problem their duals aren't held BJC maybe you all should change that.

This year @125, Spencer Lee is # 1, Rivera is ranked #2, if Rivera loses to Lee and those are his only losses, he will still be seeded at 2.
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Except that Stoll wasn’t 2 or even 3 for that matter. Do I think it changed a lot, no, but why wouldn’t you give your big guy a punchers chance against Snyder? Oh yeah, that’s right Stoll was hurt.
 
Thats what I'm saying KC, give Stoll a punchers chance to win the dual. If he loses as expected, won't change his seeding at all...... but if he pulls off a lucky throw .......
 
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