RPO going away?
- Thread starter heckmans
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Ciarrocca is a RPO adherent. You can run an RPO offense without the QB running 20 times a game. Just look at the Eagles with Nick Foles at QB.
MN ran lots of RPOs. I hope we bring back the offense like when Hackenberg was here, where we averaged around 20 pts/game. That seems like it would make lots of people happy. No RPOs, yay.
How many games did we lose when scoring 20 points per game?
When Franklin tells us he not going to run RPO, then we won't be running the RPO.
I agree with you, and add that I don't feel people truly understand the RPO concept.
People are excited Ciarrocca will run the slants and skinny posts. Some time ago, I gave an explanation on those routes and how they are predicated on how the defense reacts to the run fake. The Q running is NOT what the RPO is all about.
OL
since JF arrived, QB running has been key to success. you can even see this in 2019, as when Clifford ran we generally had more success. new OC has a different model - maybe we can keep QB healthy.
Preach it brother! Run-pass-option doesn’t mean the QB is running the ball. That’s an option play. Hugh difference
Yep, that's ROP, Read Option. Pet Peeve of mine, we ran a lot of ROP and a little RPO. Minnesota ran RPO.
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If we'd had this system back in the 90s we would have been able to sign Ron Powlus.
LSU just had the best offense in the history of college football. Nick Saban
doesn't think you can defense it. It's going away?? Nope
doesn't think you can defense it. It's going away?? Nope
Thank u for the clarification. You are absolutely correct. My hope is that the QB running is less relied on as a philosophy.
I also hope that faking a hand off on every pass play out of the shotgun goes away one day, but I'll take this for now if true. Trace was exceptional as a runner in that wrinkle was added mid-season to capitalize on that capability. Clifford is less gifted in that area and I wish it would go away. Just my hope.
I agree also, but up to now, the OFF has been dependent on the QB running being a key part of the scheme. the 2016 vs 2015 season are a great comparison. essentially the same OL and moving parts, but tremendous difference in results. came down to Trace run capability and avoiding the sacks that Hack took. QB run actually made the difference in 2016.
would be nice to not have to depend on QB run so much.
I don't want it to go completely away and don't think it will but I will be very happy if we see about 30% less QB runs.
But that threat needs to be there for our offense to be working at peak.
Geebus we’re still going to run an RPO Offense. The major difference will be that it won’t feature the QB running 10+ times a game. Seeing how Mcsorley and Clifford got the holy hell beat out of them by season’s end this will be a welcomed change. Not only to them, but to the 4-5 legit options at RB that would love some of those carries.
A question for knowledgeable X and O types. If PSU had two backs in the backfield, what would a RPO look like? If I have it correctly, the QB reads a particular defender, usually the DE or LB, and depending on what he does, the QB gives the ball to the RB, holds it and runs, or passes. Would having an extra back give the QB the same options with an additional RB running in another direction or as a receiver? Is anybody running a two back RPO set? Or does it not make any sense?
From what I understand about RPO the O identities a conflict defender. That’s the guy , usually on the outside who’s job it is to support the run on run plays or stay back to cover a short receiver ( the strong safety?). So the the QB places the ball in the RB belly looks at the conflict defender. If he comes up to support the run the QB throws the ball to the receiver in the hole where the conflict defender just left
If he hangs back for the pass give the ball to the RB as we will have more blockers than the D has defenders
2 backs ? IDK if it helps
If you search YouTube for joe morehead there’s a good video describing this. Best I can do during covid happy hour
Will coach C open it up by putting the QB under center when 4th and inches?
I'm no coach. But, you're confusing RPO with read option. In read option, like you said, the QB reads the unblocked edge defender and hands off or pulls based on the unblocked defender. There's no option to throw on those plays and the OL run blocks all the way.
With RPO, the line runs blocks not knowing if it will be a pass or run. The QB still reads a defender, but it's typically on the 2nd or 3rd level. If for example the SS is the read, the QB is going to pull the ball and throw if the SS fills hard. If the SS stays back in coverage, the QB hands off as the O likes fewer defenders in the box. The read ideally puts the defender in conflict. Check out what the RPO did to #29 here with Indiana. He couldn't decide and ended up in no man's land.
That's funny, sluggo. I typed up pretty much the same response and then went looking for a video to show a TD throw off an RPO we ran.
Great explanation and use of video.
With a 2-back offense and TE, keep in mind you’ll likely have another defender in the box.
Lots of games to play if you wanted to go 2-back and no TE. Now you can read the OLB to the twins and hit the skinny to the #1 (WR) with #2 (TE/H) clearing the underneath out. Or, ride an RPO sweep to twins, read FS and throw back to single WR on a fade or straight post. FS sits, run the sweep. FS fill sweep, find your WR.
OL
^^^ THIS ^^^ And, add in the nugget that a few years back the NCAA changed the "blocking down field" rule. It used to be that if an OL simply got past the line of scrimmage (LOS) that it was an "illegal man downfield" penalty. The NCAA changed the rule and now if an OL is engaged in his block, he can be past the LOS on a passing play and it is NOT an 'illegal man downfield' penalty. Which means... like you said... it is essentially the same blocking scheme. THIS is what makes the RPO so effective. With "essentially the same blocking scheme" it is nearly impossible for the LB and the DBs to read run or pass based on the OL. Reads used to be much easier for LB and DB based on the OL. The OL proceed forward... BAM... run play and the LB and the DB all play "downhill" and attack the ball carrier. Now, the LB and the DB see the OL proceed forward and it can still be a pass, the LB and the DB still have to wait that extra second to determine run or pass... in the game of football if you can make you opponent hesitate for 1 second, you often have a significant advantage.
Until the NCAA changes the rules back to the way they were, when it was "illegal man downfield" if an OL simply went past the LOS, it would be insane for an offense to not take advantage of some RPO plays.
Referencing @Kiber - the OL also gets 3 yards if not engaged. Many RPO passes are out by the time they get to that level.
Anymore, the only time OL hats pop up is a 100% pass play with no ball fake. Only then does the defense see all out pass. (Of course a nicely planned screen or draw wouldn’t hurt here).
OL
Anymore, the only time OL hats pop up is a 100% pass play with no ball fake. Only then does the defense see all out pass. (Of course a nicely planned screen or draw wouldn’t hurt here).
OL
There is a contingent on this board that would be happier if we recruited three fullbacks a class, lined up under center, handed the ball off 35 times a game, scored 13 points a game and went 4-8 every year because thats how Joe coached instead of going 10-2 with the RPO.
here is a good tutorial the first play is RPO as he says the second play is a read option which are different plays.....
this from 2016? but its your 2 back RPO, which basically puts SB in the role of the TE from the above clip. side note, this is coaches film, not what comes off the TV, side view, end zone view, It would be interesting to know where he gets this film. Normally teams don't just hand this stuff out.
I think that you might need to research Joe's record and how many points his teams scored.
RPO is still the offensive system at PSU and 90-95% of Div. 1 programs until someone comes up with something better.
Veilleux isn't a running QB he has good mobility and good size. On paper looks pretty similar to Clifford and Levis. If he can run anything like the way Clifford did last year that's all PSU needs.
I think at PSU we have a distorted impression of RPO because post-sanctions the PSU OL program was in such bad shape. It really wasn't until late 2018 that PSU could successfully run TBs between the tackles.
There's no RPO coach in the country who wouldn't love to have running backs carry the ball 90% of the time. Moorhead would have loved to do power running out of the RPO, but PSU didn't have the horses at the time.
If you don't have to put your QB in jeopardy to win a game, who wouldn't take that?
Veilleux isn't a running QB he has good mobility and good size. On paper looks pretty similar to Clifford and Levis. If he can run anything like the way Clifford did last year that's all PSU needs.
I think at PSU we have a distorted impression of RPO because post-sanctions the PSU OL program was in such bad shape. It really wasn't until late 2018 that PSU could successfully run TBs between the tackles.
There's no RPO coach in the country who wouldn't love to have running backs carry the ball 90% of the time. Moorhead would have loved to do power running out of the RPO, but PSU didn't have the horses at the time.
If you don't have to put your QB in jeopardy to win a game, who wouldn't take that?
Yup. Agree. But they are not realizing how the rules changes really gave "advantage offense" for running RPO style plays.
It's like an NFL team not taking advantage of the advantageous rules that favor passing. I'm 54.... Believe it or not, back in the 70's it used to be legal for DBs to engage and make contact with receivers all over the field until the ball was in the air. Up until about the mid-70s defensive players could push, shove, hit... offensive players out in pass routes until the ball was in the air. Once the ball was in the air, you could not touch the offensive player. So defensive players could really knock offensive players off of routes and restrict routes. Then the NFL put in the "Mel Blount Rule", which said that once an offensive player got 5 yards off the line of scrimmage you could not touch him. So defensive players had that first 5 yards to basically "mug" an offensive player and not let him off the line. Then it changed to today's rules. During this time they also changed blocking rules to allow OL to extend their arms and use their open hands in pass protection. ........ Not taking advantage of rules that favor RPO plays would be like not taking advantage of rules that favor the passing game.
That is debatable. More interesting is the fact that our 2016 offense would have been very similar had Hackenberg stayed for his senior year. Would have been fun to watch. LSU had a better line but we had better skill position talent.
just because you put the QB under center, does not mean you can't run RPO. It doesn't mean you have to have a FB, it doesn't mean you'll only score 13 points a game.
you can still run RPO, but also in the running game up can attack both sides of the LOS while running down hill, as opposed to RB mostly running sideways to the LOS.
Huh? splane yourself! you just hate joepa or what! The man's teams won 409 games.
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