Question on credit score

[swordsman_l]

I came upon a curious finding with credit scores this week, and what more logical place than the Mcandrew Board to help me figure this out.

I'm a pretty old guy, remember seeing Reid/Smear/Onkotz/Ham play in person, etc.
I live a comfortable life, not rich by any means.
I monitor my credit score using Credit Karma every few weeks. It usually hovers around 812-820, from Transunion and Equifax.
I bought a new vehicle this week, ended up paying cash, not financing. They said they had to run a credit check anyway, I knew it would be a hard inquiry, but it was getting late so I said OK.

My credit score from Equifax at the car dealer printout was 872, much higher than its ever been. I checked CreditKarma today, Equifax has me at 814, fairly typical

Does anyone understand the reason for this discrepancy?
Do car dealers routinely inflate credit scores? Does CreditKarma underreport scores?

Inquiring minds want to know.

 

[fairgambit]

I came upon a curious finding with credit scores this week, and what more logical place than the Mcandrew Board to help me figure this out.

I'm a pretty old guy, remember seeing Reid/Smear/Onkotz/Ham play in person, etc.
I live a comfortable life, not rich by any means.
I monitor my credit score using Credit Karma every few weeks. It usually hovers around 812-820, from Transunion and Equifax.
I bought a new vehicle this week, ended up paying cash, not financing. They said they had to run a credit check anyway, I knew it would be a hard inquiry, but it was getting late so I said OK.

My credit score from Equifax at the car dealer printout was 872, much higher than its ever been. I checked CreditKarma today, Equifax has me at 814, fairly typical

Does anyone understand the reason for this discrepancy?
Do car dealers routinely inflate credit scores? Does CreditKarma underreport scores?

Inquiring minds want to know.

There are a number of different scoring systems. The standard one goes to 850, but there is one used for credit card and automobile credit that goes to 900. Both your scores are excellent.

 

[Sproul]

As stated above, dealers, some insurances use their own scales which can range differently. Over 800 is really good for fico.

 

[Pizzaboy1]

Congratulations I guess!

 

[ILLINOISLION]

If you’re a “pretty old guy”, why are you buying a new car?

 

[fairfaxlion2]

Why the hell do they run a credit check when you are paying in cash?

We are so accustomed to jumping through utterly pointless hoops that we no longer even ask questions.

 

[BoulderFish]

Why the hell do they run a credit check when you are paying in cash?

We are so accustomed to jumping through utterly pointless hoops that we no longer even ask questions.

Yeah that makes no sense. I bought a new car a couple of years ago with cash, and they never cared one bit about my credit (as you would expect).

 

[ericstratton-rushchairman]

Nobody likes a show off

 

[Nitwit97]

If you’re a “pretty old guy”, why are you buying a new car?

For the chicks, of course!! Why do any of us buy new cars??

 

[swordsman_l]

Why the hell do they run a credit check when you are paying in cash?

We are so accustomed to jumping through utterly pointless hoops that we no longer even ask questions.

Not true. I asked why there needed to be a credit check if I was paying in cash.
The salesman told me something about it being their policy, that they needed to be sure I wasnt a terrorist (seriously), and something else.

I know that I could have jumped up and down and protested.

But then I thought, 2 points against my FICO score for a few months, or start this song and dance with another dealer.
Decided that wasnt a battle I wanted to fight.

Hey, I said I was old, not retired. I had work the next day, and it was 9 pm.

 

[Delco Lion]

I googled this to confirm. There is no legit reason for them to run a credit check. Some dealers will toss out the "Patriot Act" as the reason, but thats not true.

Wrote a check for my last car, and they did not run a credit check.

 

[PSUFBFAN]

I googled this to confirm. There is no legit reason for them to run a credit check. Some dealers will toss out the "Patriot Act" as the reason, but thats not true.

Wrote a check for my last car, and they did not run a credit check.

The answer to this issue is in their response to him ... "that's our policy". I am cantankerous enough to have replied "well, my policy is that I don't agree to provide credit checks when I am paying in cash. So, do you want my $xx,xxx or should I give it to the dealer down the street?"

I understand that it really isn't that big of a deal and many people would prefer to avoid the last minute shenanigans and just let them run the credit check and finish tne transaction. Nothing wrong with that approach, either.

 

[ClarkstonMark]

The answer to this issue is in their response to him ... "that's our policy". I am cantankerous enough to have replied "well, my policy is that I don't agree to provide credit checks when I am paying in cash. So, do you want my $xx,xxx or should I give it to the dealer down the street?"

I understand that it really isn't that big of a deal and many people would prefer to avoid the last minute shenanigans and just let them run the credit check and finish tne transaction. Nothing wrong with that approach, either.

Back a few years ago when I was a serious cc churner (for bonus points), that would have been a deal breaker.
These days I am more relaxed, and would have put up a much smaller fight.

 

[demlion]

"Thats our policy" is such a bullshit answer.

It immediately raises the temp of any conversation when i hear it. It is the ultimate nonanswer.

The response about " well, my policy is..." is the one I always use, followed by:

"Trust is mutual, or it does not exist. You are signalling by your policy that you don't trust me. That is the number 1 indicator that I can not trust you. I may have to rethink doing business with you."

 

[retsio]

"Thats our policy" is such a bullshit answer.
It immediately raises the temp of any conversation when i hear it. It is the ultimate nonanswer.
The response about " well, my policy is..." is the one I always use, followed by:

"Trust is mutual, or it does not exist. You are signalling by your policy that you don't trust me. That is the number 1 indicator that I can not trust you. I may have to rethink doing business with you."

Recently I asked Sun Trust Bank about a Merchant Account. They replied with -- 'the company must be formed in Florida, since you live here, and we need your SS# for our records' -- and my simple response was ....

'WHY?... The company would have a state registration number and a US govt. EIN number, and I already have a personal account with Sun Trust.' This is a company account.

Their response -- 'We need to know who you are' .... and this is absolute Bull. There are other banks around the US that can be used.

I have an LLC in Delaware, started a top ten internet company years ago, now an off-shore company that is setting up a Payment Processor in the Caribbean and a company account in the EU, and this activity is -- Conspicuous Fear and Snobbery to spy on your business or personal information. If someone gets their noses out of joint, they will assume the worst and report your business or account use to the Fumbling Bumbling Idiots.

Please remember, your ID information is valuable and will be sold whether you agree or not.
Don't give in to this crap !!

 

[LionwiththeDevil]

I like demlion's policy.

 

[sluggo72]

I came upon a curious finding with credit scores this week, and what more logical place than the Mcandrew Board to help me figure this out.

I'm a pretty old guy, remember seeing Reid/Smear/Onkotz/Ham play in person, etc.
I live a comfortable life, not rich by any means.
I monitor my credit score using Credit Karma every few weeks. It usually hovers around 812-820, from Transunion and Equifax.
I bought a new vehicle this week, ended up paying cash, not financing. They said they had to run a credit check anyway, I knew it would be a hard inquiry, but it was getting late so I said OK.

My credit score from Equifax at the car dealer printout was 872, much higher than its ever been. I checked CreditKarma today, Equifax has me at 814, fairly typical

Does anyone understand the reason for this discrepancy?
Do car dealers routinely inflate credit scores? Does CreditKarma underreport scores?

Inquiring minds want to know.

you paid cash, how? via check? or with 'straight cash homey'? big difference. If by check, there shouldn't be a real reason to run your credit. Now if you do pay by check, maybe they wanted to make sure the check doesn't bounce, so anyone with your score they figure it won't bounce, but suppose it came back at 630? The other problem with a check is insurance. what would happened if you drove the car off the lot, total it and you don't have full coverage insurance? If the check hasn't cleared, some people would try to stop payment on the check, and tell the dealer, come get your totaled car.

Straight cash? there are Patriot Act rules about tracking the cash they are required to follow. An easy way to launder money (at one time) was buying and selling cars

 

[demlion]

you paid cash, how? via check? or with 'straight cash homey'? big difference. If by check, there shouldn't be a real reason to run your credit. Now if you do pay by check, maybe they wanted to make sure the check doesn't bounce, so anyone with your score they figure it won't bounce, but suppose it came back at 630? The other problem with a check is insurance. what would happened if you drove the car off the lot, total it and you don't have full coverage insurance? If the check hasn't cleared, some people would try to stop payment on the check, and tell the dealer, come get your totaled car.

Straight cash? there are Patriot Act rules about tracking the cash they are required to follow. An easy way to launder money (at one time) was buying and selling cars

Yeah, and maybe the car has been misrepresented. Maybe its junk. Maybe they are lying about it. What is his recourse then? Funk dat.

You can't take my check? I'm not taking your promise. Trust is BOTH WAYS, or not at all. How about you let me check YOUR credit, and that of the dealership? Why, you say? Its my policy.

 

[mfb5053]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cnbc.com/amp/2018/05/11/credit-scores-just-got-a-boost.html

 

[sluggo72]

Yeah, and maybe the car has been misrepresented. Maybe its junk. Maybe they are lying about it. What is his recourse then? Funk dat.

You can't take my check? I'm not taking your promise. Trust is BOTH WAYS, or not at all. How about you let me check YOUR credit, and that of the dealership? Why, you say? Its my policy.

first off, I believe he was buying a new car, the manufacture warrants a new car not the dealer, so theres that
I'd say, 'do you have full coverage insurance?' if yes, I will take your check, if no, then there are 2 solutions, you can have the car when the check clears, or if you don't like that, we don't have a deal. Thanks for stopping by, you decide.

 

[demlion]

first off, I believe he was buying a new car, the manufacture warrants a new car not the dealer, so theres that
I'd say, 'do you have full coverage insurance?' if yes, I will take your check, if no, then there are 2 solutions, you can have the car when the check clears, or if you don't like that, we don't have a deal. Thanks for stopping by, you decide.

No matter what I have ever said at a dealership, once a price has been reached and a deal made, they have NEVER sent me away. I have always had them speak to my insurance guy, and i usually have a temp ins card when the car is picked up.

Be interested to know of other folks who have been sent away from a dealership when about to sign a check.

Btw, problems with a brand new car are fixed by the DEALER. You have to trust them to be honest. Once they indicate they dont trust me, i cannot trust them.

The list of people on earth whom I do not trust BEGINS with the list of those who don't trust me.

 

[klive]

If I’m not applying for credit, why run a credit check should have been your answer.

 

[fairgambit]

Bankrate article on Patriot Act and car purchase.
https://www.bankrate.com/financing/...t-fall-for-the-patriot-act-credit-check-scam/

 

[sluggo72]

No matter what I have ever said at a dealership, once a price has been reached and a deal made, they have NEVER sent me away. I have always had them speak to my insurance guy, and i usually have a temp ins card when the car is picked up.

Be interested to know of other folks who have been sent away from a dealership when about to sign a check.

Btw, problems with a brand new car are fixed by the DEALER. You have to trust them to be honest. Once they indicate they dont trust me, i cannot trust them.

The list of people on earth whom I do not trust BEGINS with the list of those who don't trust me.

as I said, if you have full coverage insurance, I'll take your check.
Now when you help a client settle an insurance claim, who is the check made out to? The client? or you and your client?

 

[demlion]

Bankrate article on Patriot Act and car purchase.
https://www.bankrate.com/financing/...t-fall-for-the-patriot-act-credit-check-scam/

Wow.

 

[demlion]

as I said, if you have full coverage insurance, I'll take your check.
Now when you help a client settle an insurance claim, who is the check made out to? The client? or you and your client?

I have it both ways. Never, ever had a problem.

So if I SAY, i have insurance, you're good? So, when I scheme to write you a bad check for 40k, you're sure i won't lie to you about the insurance? Lol.

 

[sluggo72]

I have it both ways. Never, ever had a problem.

So if I SAY, i have insurance, you're good? So, when I scheme to write you a bad check for 40k, you'r sure i wont lie to you about the insurance? Lol.

no I ask with whom, and give them a call to verify.

 

[LionDeNittany]

Yeah, and maybe the car has been misrepresented. Maybe its junk. Maybe they are lying about it. What is his recourse then? Funk dat.

You can't take my check? I'm not taking your promise. Trust is BOTH WAYS, or not at all. How about you let me check YOUR credit, and that of the dealership? Why, you say? Its my policy.

Thats not how it works. A dealership has significantly more "trust" than some guy walking in from the street handing in a check.

Accepting checks for cars will put that dealer out of business within weeks.

Not to mention it WOULD be out of policy for them to accept checks and hand over cars. Why? Well the dealer doesnt own those cars. The motor company financing arm does. Or at least that arm is financing those vehicles and thus again against policy.

LdN

 

[fairfaxlion2]

Thats not how it works. A dealership has significantly more "trust" than some guy walking in from the street handing in a check.

Accepting checks for cars will put that dealer out of business within weeks.

Not to mention it WOULD be out of policy for them to accept checks and hand over cars. Why? Well the dealer doesnt own those cars. The motor company financing arm does. Or at least that arm is financing those vehicles and thus again against policy.

LdN

Well you could bring a certified check from your bank, if they wanted you to do so.

The credit check makes zero sense if you aren't getting a loan.

 

[LionDeNittany]

Well you could bring a certified check from your bank, if they wanted you to do so.

The credit check makes zero sense if you aren't getting a loan.

I agree completely. But a dealership is a state regulated entity.

A person off the street is not.

It is not some sort of equal trust agreement.

The reason they run the credit check is because much of the money a dealer makes is with the payment game and sneaking in unnecessary warranties with the payment game.

People should hire an expert when they buy a cae to avoid these stupid tricks.

Ldn

 

[demlion]

Well you could bring a certified check from your bank, if they wanted you to do so.

The credit check makes zero sense if you aren't getting a loan.

Except as a way to gather data on you and demonstrate that while YOU are not worthy of their trust, they are implicitly entitled to have you trust them. Like I said, there's a lot more scummy bs in the average car dealership than at my house. If there is going to be a one way trustworthiness presumption, they have it backwards.

 

[demlion]

I agree completely. But a dealership is a state regulated entity.

A person off the street is not.

It is not some sort of equal trust agreement.

The reason they run the credit check is because much of the money a dealer makes is with the payment game and sneaking in unnecessary warranties with the payment game.

People should hire an expert when they buy a cae to avoid these stupid tricks.

Ldn

So we should trust them with our private data, because they are scumbags? Got it.

 

[Delco Lion]

OMG

Comedy Gold.

Agree. I've written checks for my last two cars. I'm pretty sure they can electronically make sure you have the money in the bank or take it out on the spot.

 

[step.eng69]

Nobody likes a show off

If the
swordsman_l is working and collecting social security, he'll have some serious walking around money.

 

[bdgan]

I came upon a curious finding with credit scores this week, and what more logical place than the Mcandrew Board to help me figure this out.

I'm a pretty old guy, remember seeing Reid/Smear/Onkotz/Ham play in person, etc.
I live a comfortable life, not rich by any means.
I monitor my credit score using Credit Karma every few weeks. It usually hovers around 812-820, from Transunion and Equifax.
I bought a new vehicle this week, ended up paying cash, not financing. They said they had to run a credit check anyway, I knew it would be a hard inquiry, but it was getting late so I said OK.

My credit score from Equifax at the car dealer printout was 872, much higher than its ever been. I checked CreditKarma today, Equifax has me at 814, fairly typical

Does anyone understand the reason for this discrepancy?
Do car dealers routinely inflate credit scores? Does CreditKarma underreport scores?

Inquiring minds want to know.

Why does a "pretty old guy" care so much about his credit score? This isn't the time of life to be borrowing.

 

[bdgan]

I agree completely. But a dealership is a state regulated entity.

A person off the street is not.

It is not some sort of equal trust agreement.

The reason they run the credit check is because much of the money a dealer makes is with the payment game and sneaking in unnecessary warranties with the payment game.

People should hire an expert when they buy a cae to avoid these stupid tricks.

Ldn

Dealers typically require bank checks, not personal checks.

 

[WDLion]

Thats not how it works. A dealership has significantly more "trust" than some guy walking in from the street handing in a check.

Accepting checks for cars will put that dealer out of business within weeks.

Not to mention it WOULD be out of policy for them to accept checks and hand over cars. Why? Well the dealer doesnt own those cars. The motor company financing arm does. Or at least that arm is financing those vehicles and thus again against policy.

LdN

I purchased my first new truck in 93 and have traded every two years since. Every one i gave the dealer a check and drove away with the truck.

 

[dwiz]

I purchased my first new truck in 93 and have traded every two years since. Every one i gave the dealer a check and drove away with the truck.

That's cause you're already getting fleeced by the dealer by trading in every 2 years, he certainly wouldn't let you walk out the door when you're doing this over and over.

 

[WDLion]

That's cause you're already getting fleeced by the dealer by trading in every 2 years, he certainly wouldn't let you walk out the door when you're doing this over and over.

Why would i walk out the door?

 

[Cosmos]

Not true. I asked why there needed to be a credit check if I was paying in cash.
The salesman told me something about it being their policy, that they needed to be sure I wasnt a terrorist (seriously), and something else.

I know that I could have jumped up and down and protested.

But then I thought, 2 points against my FICO score for a few months, or start this song and dance with another dealer.
Decided that wasnt a battle I wanted to fight.

Hey, I said I was old, not retired. I had work the next day, and it was 9 pm.

I bought a new 4-Runner in June 2017. Wrote a personal check for the balance after trade-in allowance. They didn't run a credit check.