Point of Emphasis for this college wrestling season

[nitlion6]

I think you'll find few people who want guys getting hit in the eyes. It is the accidental instances in a sport where both athletes are constantly in motion, many times violently changing directions at a moments notice, that make this point of emphasis such a bad idea, IMO.

To your point about stalling, the refs are constantly being judged and reviewed. If the NCAA wanted stalling called aggressively, it would be. The mechanism is in place. We've seen with the OOB stalling calls that the attempt to make it objective has not done much to help with consistency. This will yield the same result, I'd wager.

Once in a great while a big-name coach will mid-season ask for a clarification on a clarification on how stuff is to be called and something is said. Otherwise most communications to refs about reviews and judgements are done in the offseason and typically in a group setting without signaling out anybody.

This may end up being a cluster F, but I appreciate the effort to get the hands to the face out of the wrestling.

 

[RoarLions1]

Certainly you could call it that too. As I'm sure you know the very definition of stalling is:

Section 7. Stalling Art. 1. Description. One or both wrestlers attempting to avoid wrestling action as an offensive or defensive strategy.


It certainly qualifies there as well. To me, when it is forceful or seems intentional, it is unnecessary roughness. When it is continually used to create space which the wrestler does not use as a setup to generate offense, it is stalling. It is similar to a wrestler who backs up a lot. This can be used as an offensive tactic, but if you are going to do something like that, you have to attack off of it or you're stalling because the tactic otherwise precludes your opponent from attacking.

I don't believe we're saying different things...my point was that ALL NCAA references to this rule emphasis pertain to 5.3 Unnecessary Roughness. Not once do they mention stalling.

 

[RoarLions1]

Once in a great while a big-name coach will mid-season ask for a clarification on a clarification on how stuff is to be called and something is said. Otherwise most communications to refs about reviews and judgements are done in the offseason and typically in a group setting without signaling out anybody.

This may end up being a cluster F, but I appreciate the effort to get the hands to the face out of the wrestling.

This happened very publicly with Cael and Tim Shiels, when Cael requested clarification on the rule related to stalling calls when wrestlers are standing, and the offensive wrestler has legs in. It started with the Retherford/Collica bout, and coach wanted clarification before the post-season. The following year, the rule was changed to eliminate any confusion, which was a good thing...hasn't been mentioned since, that I remember.

 

[pawrestlersintn]

Someone should likely venture over to the Rutgers board to let them know about this rule. Otherwise, they'll be confused all season.

Matter, you want to handle it?

 

[OkieSpladle]

I don't believe we're saying different things...my point was that ALL NCAA references to this rule emphasis pertain to 5.3 Unnecessary Roughness. Not once do they mention stalling.

Right, I understand. My point is that emphasizing the Unnecessary Roughness (which has no warning) leaves the officials in an impossible spot which will lead to problematic inconsistency. If they call every touch in the problem area (which the rules video seems to imply), it will be absurd. If they only call it when there is excessive force or intent, the stalling tactic remains viable to a certain degree. Most likely we'll see a combination of the two which will put us back in the subjective zone.

 

[NoVa Lion]

Someone should likely venture over to the Rutgers board to let them know about this rule. Otherwise, they'll be confused all season.

Matter, you want to handle it?

Don't encourage him.

 

[OkieSpladle]

Once in a great while a big-name coach will mid-season ask for a clarification on a clarification on how stuff is to be called and something is said. Otherwise most communications to refs about reviews and judgements are done in the offseason and typically in a group setting without signaling out anybody.

This may end up being a cluster F, but I appreciate the effort to get the hands to the face out of the wrestling.

I think you underestimate how much communication there is from the head officials to those doing the matches. This site is used often during the season to communicate interpretations and stress certain points: https://ncaawrestling.arbitersports.com/front/107525/Site

They also send out scenarios to test the officials, then send them the answers as well. This, as I understand it, isn't a graded test type of thing, but to help everyone get on the same page. They are evaluated on their on the mat performance, though. This is, obviously, a complicated issue. I just wish they'd use the processes at their disposal a little more rather than what seems to be happening which is that they throw their hands up and just concede that stalling is never going to get called correctly.

 

[Ja1339]

Sorry, but I don't understand. I agree he could have done more, though it's a bit problematic because no one was making that call prior to this year. To me, the PSU/Rutgers match is the poster child for emphasis of this rule, and I believe it's great to have that emphasis. I believe we'll be back here discussing specific calls, consistency, and the confusion caused before the season ends.

Roar, I recall this was used against Zain a lot last year. Would have been nice to see this rule enforced last year...not that he needed it

 

[El-Jefe]

Someone should likely venture over to the Rutgers board to let them know about this rule. Otherwise, they'll be confused all season.

Matter, you want to handle it?

Who's gonna deliver the layoff notice to Assistant Coach Mike Tyson?

 

[nitlion6]

Someone should likely venture over to the Rutgers board to let them know about this rule. Otherwise, they'll be confused all season.

Matter, you want to handle it?

Probably lead to a ban. Just making shyt up to poke fun at their inadequacies, both wrestling skills and collective self-confidence.

 

[pawrestlersintn]

Probably lead to a ban. Just making shyt up to poke fun at their inadequacies, both wrestling skills and collective self-confidence.

Pretty sure Matter doesn't have to worry about being banned from there.

 

[NoVa Lion]

Pretty sure Matter doesn't have to worry about being banned from there.

That really surprised me until I thought about it for a few seconds. Insert devil emoticon here. I really miss that emoticon.

 

[Still in State College]

... It's wrestling for God's sake, sometimes your hands end up where you don't necessarily intend for them to be.

Yes they do.

 

[PAwrestle]

I am a high school football official here in PA. As much as I’d love to get involved with wrestling it’s simply not fair to the family. I’m already out of commission 5-6 nights a week for 4 months of the year. I’m also our chapter rules interpreter. One of the biggest things that we struggle with and I preach each year is consistency. It’s something that is human nature to a degree. You may see it differently than I do or interpret the rule differently than I do. This is the problem with a rule like this. It is almost impossible to call consistently.

I’m on a very veteran crew. I’ve been an official for 9 years and I’m the inexperienced one. We enforce the rules as they are meant to be enforced and we do a very good job. It never fails 2-3 games a year toward the end of the season we call something or tell a coach or player that he can’t do that and we get the response “But I’ve been doing that all year and it’s never been called” and my response is always “well you’re not doing that tonight”

I disagree with this rule being an immediate 1 pt. There should be a warning prior. It gives the wrestler a chance to adjust to the official. Just like with stalling Official A might call it much more often and strictly than Official B but there’s not really a good way to fix that...again human nature. Consistency makes officiating easier on everyone but it is impossible to get everything called exactly the same way every game or match.

 

[86PSUPaul]

I agree with the one warning part, though my opinion means squat. But Mr PAwrestle phrased it well, give the wrestler a warning on how a ref will call it.

 

[Tom McAndrew]

I disagree with this rule being an immediate 1 pt. There should be a warning prior. It gives the wrestler a chance to adjust to the official. Just like with stalling Official A might call it much more often and strictly than Official B but there’s not really a good way to fix that...again human nature. Consistency makes officiating easier on everyone but it is impossible to get everything called exactly the same way every game or match.

I agree with a lot of what you posted. Calls where the criteria are subjective, which allows for a great deal of inconsistency in how they are called by refs, do create problems for the competitors, the refs, the coaches, and also the fans.

That said, I don't think the point of emphasis (POE) will be a big problem. The college ref I spoke with earlier this week (which prompted the OP) mentioned that before he started each match at the Open he reffed this past weekend, he told the contestants about the change, and that he'd be calling it. He went on to say that he had been consistent throughout the day of calling hands to the face. I've seen him ref several times, and he is very, very consistent with his calls.

Per the college ref, they want college wrestlers that reach for the head to be coming in from the side. The intent of the POE is to eliminate/greatly reduce the straight reaches for the head. If refs are consistent in calling this, I think that virtually all the complaints will disappear by December, as most wrestlers will respond to the modification.

If the goal is to get a change in behavior, issuing warnings will delay wrestlers modifying their behavior.

There may be two instances where I could see a problem with the POE. 1) a wrestler is reaching for the side of the head, and simultaneously the opponent is reaching, and the hand of one of them gets deflected into the opponent's face, or 2) a wrestler reaches straight out, but is aiming for the forehead, but the opponent simultaneously stands up, so the reacher's hand ends up in the face. While these situations are unfortunate, wrestlers are also responsible for their actions. "I didn't mean to do that," is never sufficient grounds for a ref not making a call in a sport. I'll try to check in the coming weeks if the college refs have been instructed to allow any leeway for inadvertent hands to the face.

 

[a_mshaffer]

I agree with a lot of what you posted. Calls where the criteria are subjective, which allows for a great deal of inconsistency in how they are called by refs, do create problems for the competitors, the refs, the coaches, and also the fans.

That said, I don't think the point of emphasis (POE) will be a big problem. The college ref I spoke with earlier this week (which prompted the OP) mentioned that before he started each match at the Open he reffed this past weekend, he told the contestants about the change, and that he'd be calling it. He went on to say that he had been consistent throughout the day of calling hands to the face. I've seen him ref several times, and he is very, very consistent with his calls.

Per the college ref, they want college wrestlers that reach for the head to be coming in from the side. The intent of the POE is to eliminate/greatly reduce the straight reaches for the head. If refs are consistent in calling this, I think that virtually all the complaints will disappear by December, as most wrestlers will respond to the modification.

If the goal is to get a change in behavior, issuing warnings will delay wrestlers modifying their behavior.

There may be two instances where I could see a problem with the POE. 1) a wrestler is reaching for the side of the head, and simultaneously the opponent is reaching, and the hand of one of them gets deflected into the opponent's face, or 2) a wrestler reaches straight out, but is aiming for the forehead, but the opponent simultaneously stands up, so the reacher's hand ends up in the face. While these situations are unfortunate, wrestlers are also responsible for their actions. "I didn't mean to do that," is never sufficient grounds for a ref not making a call in a sport. I'll try to check in the coming weeks if the college refs have been instructed to allow any leeway for inadvertent hands to the face.

disagree Tom - a warning will change the behavior just as much and perhaps make it even more civil for the wreslters, fans, and coaches... and may make up for your points in the last para.

 

[RoarLions1]

disagree Tom - a warning will change the behavior just as much and perhaps make it even more civil for the wreslters, fans, and coaches... and may make up for your points in the last para.

Disagree. It's unnecessary roughness...for which there is no warning. To call it any other way would require changing the rules. The "emphasis" is to call the rule the way it was written.

I believe the concern will be consistent calls, not whether it's a point or just a warning for the initial call.

 

[Tom McAndrew]

There may be two instances where I could see a problem with the POE. 1) a wrestler is reaching for the side of the head, and simultaneously the opponent is reaching, and the hand of one of them gets deflected into the opponent's face, or 2) a wrestler reaches straight out, but is aiming for the forehead, but the opponent simultaneously stands up, so the reacher's hand ends up in the face. While these situations are unfortunate, wrestlers are also responsible for their actions. "I didn't mean to do that," is never sufficient grounds for a ref not making a call in a sport. I'll try to check in the coming weeks if the college refs have been instructed to allow any leeway for inadvertent hands to the face.

I saw my college ref friend this evening, and discussed these scenarios with him.

1) deflected hand -- most times would not be called. In a similar manner, if a defensive wrestler has an opponent's hand on their ear, and turns their head so that the opponent's hand is now in the face, it shouldn't be called.
2) hand reached out as defensive wrestler stands, causing hand to land on the face -- just as I speculated, the wrestler reaching is responsible for their actions/what their body parts do, so that would be called

We talked briefly about all the complaints from former wrestlers on Twitter. He reiterated that in every college match he's done so far when he brings them in for the handshake he quickly reminds them of the POE. We both feel that in a month or so, nearly all college wrestlers will have adjusted and hands to the face (in the triangle area) will be eliminated. However, he did chuckle and tell me that in a match this past weekend, despite his verbal instructions before the whistle, a wrestler reached right out for the face, so 3 seconds into the bout he stopped it and awarded a point.

 

[Cowbell Man]

Yes they do.

lol. “Pop” culture alert....wrestling version.

 

[PSUbluTX]

Our guys seem to be adjusting well already. IIRC, we didn't get a single penalty called against us vs KSU yesterday. The only one i remember went against Cenzo's opponent.

 

[lionlover]

Supposedly, all college refs have been informed that a major point of emphasis this year is hands to the face. Wrestlers are allowed to put their hands on an opponent's forehead. However, there is basically a triangle between the eyebrows and the chin. If a wrestler puts his hand in the triangle area of an opponent while on their feet, there is not supposed to be any warning -- the ref is supposed to stop the action and award a point to the wrestler whose opponent placed their hand in the face triangle area.

Per the college ref, the college ref community has also been informed that if they do not enforce this point of emphasis, they will lose assignments. In short, this truly is a major point of emphasis.

As hands to the face has been frequently discussed on this board in past seasons, I have no doubt that you guys will be analyzing/discussing how effectively this point of emphasis is enforced this season.

 

[lionlover]

I had not seen this previously discussed; my apologies if it was.

Most of you are aware that I'm friendly with several college wrestling refs. I saw some of them this evening, and one of them was talking about working an Open this past weekend. .

Is one of them the same college ref that blows your whistle during football season too?