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Penn State's Run Game

stormingnorm

Well-Known Member
Aug 2, 2017
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Penn State’s run game woes are being so incredibly overblown (with respect to the offensive line) and misunderstood.

This situation is NOTHING like the situations in 2014 and 2015, when the offensive line was simply not capable of blocking anyone.

Of the eight first half run plays (yes, eight TOTAL in the first half) there were a TOTAL of two run plays that failed due to PSU offensive linemen being badly beaten.

Of the 10 run plays in the second half, aside from the whiff by Wright that prevented a big gainer on the draw by McSorley, there were no other run plays destroyed by significant failures up front.

Couple Notes:

1) Penn State definitely had the correct “gameplan” on offense, coming out throwing on nearly every down against the MSU “run first” defensive schemes.
Penn State’s first 4 possessions (before the rain delay): 4 possessions, 217 yards, 2 TDs, 1 INT, 1 Punt
25 of 29 snaps were pass plays. (of course, those passes were - mostly - RPOs, where the PASS option was selected. So maybe its more "accurate" to say the right DECISIONS were being made, rather than the correct game-plan - but the broader point is the same)

2) The scheming and play-calling were OUTSTANDING - - - and the run game, aside from the threat of the run game opening up easy throwing lanes, was a non factor (by design) and was perfectly suited to combat MSU's defensive schemes

3) If there is a reason - above all others - that Penn State scored 24 points (and not more than 24 points) it was due to numerous plays available in the pass game not being made - due to drops, miss-throws, or other reasons). No need to go through all of those - but the overthrown/not caught wide-open slant on 4th and 3 alone would have changed the outcome of the game. The underthrown/not caught post to Blacknall (that turned into an interception) was also critical.

4) If there is a reason - above all others - that Michigan State scored 27 points (and not less than 27 points) it was due to Lewerke having an outstanding game, and his outside receivers playing the collective game of their lives - making one play after another in the pass game)


With that, Penn State’s run game vs MSU, in its entirety:

1st Possession:

1-10 Inside RPO Barkley
-1 Yard Fries and Gonzalez were both knocked into the backfield
One of two "the offensive line was owned" plays of the first half.

2nd Possession:

1-10 Inside RPO Barkley
+1 Yard Reasonably well blocked, but Barkley instead cut outside and was tripped up by the edge defender

3rd Possession:

2-1 Inside RPO Barkley
+1 Picks up first down

4th Possession:

None

After rain delay

5th Possession

1-10 Inside RPO Barkley
0 Yards Bad read by McSorley – Slot defender blitzed the run, leaving slot receiver wide open for an easy 10 yard slant

6th Possession:

2-10 (deep in PSU territory) Inside RPO Barkley
-4 Yards Gonzalez and Mahon both completely whiffed on blocks
The second of the two "the offensive line was owned" plays of the first half.

7th Possession:

1-10 (Last play of half) Inside RPO Barkley
+3 Yards

Other first half run plays:

QB draw with McSorley for +2.
Poorly run by McSorley, big lane created to the outside
QB keep by McSorley on an Inside RPO for +2.
MSU was just in the right defense with a run blitz.


Of the eight first half run plays (yes, eight TOTAL in the first half) there were a TOTAL of two run plays that failed due to PSU offensive linemen being badly beaten.Barkley had no more than one carry on any possession, which was a very reasonable game plan given the success of the pass game early on.


2nd Half:

1st Possession:

1-10 Outside toss to Barkley
+3 Yards, nearly turned the corner

2-7 (very next play) Outside toss to Barkley
+36 Yards

2nd Possession:

1-10 Inside RPO to Barkley
+7, very well blocked

3-1 Fake the Outside toss to Barkley, McSorley keeps on counter
+13 Yards, Weak side was wide open with defense flying to Barkley on the other side

1-10 Inside RPO to Barkley
+1 Yard. Bad read by McSorley, end crashed down, outside was wide open

1-10 (red zone) Inside RPO to Barkley
+3 Reasonably well blocked

3rd Possession:
None (70 Yard TD pass on first play)

4th Possession:
2-2 Inside RPO to Barkley
+4 Yards, Very well blocked

5th Possession:

1-10 Inside RPO to Barkley
+ 4 Yards Well blocked

1-10 Inside RPO to Barkley
+5 Yards Well blocked

Other 2nd Half run plays:

1-10 QB Draw for McSorley
-1 Yard. Play was wide open for a big gainer except that Wright whiffed his assignment


Of the 10 run plays in the second half, aside from the whiff by Wright that prevented a big gainer on the draw by McSorley, there were no other run plays destroyed by significant failures up front.
The offensive line certainly hasn’t been perfect (or even outstanding), and this doesn’t include pass protection reviews, but focusing only on the run game.


There is probably one glaring issue that could be intelligently criticized.

Here it is:

PSU ran THREE run plays where Barkley was an Outside option (twice when they pitched to him, once when McSorley faked the pitch and ran a counter). One those three plays, PSU picked up 3 yards, 36 yards, and 13 yards.
But those were the only three times Barkley was a threat as a runner to the outside.

On the plays when Barkley was the inside option:
1st Half
: Penn State ran ZERO plays where Barkley was an outside option - - - 7 attempts, 2 yards
2nd Half: After showing 3 plays early in the 2nd half with Barkley as an outside option - - - 6 attempts for 24 yards

So, even with the inside runs, once Penn State showed MSU that they MIGHT run him outside, the running space opened up considerably on the interior.


The huge disparity in success on runs where Barkley is an Inside Option vs an Outside Option has been there ever since the Iowa game. Why there remains such an overwhelming majority of run plays where Barkley is the inside option, and McSorley is the edge option, is kind of hard to figure – but one can’t imagine the offensive staff doesn’t have these breakdowns at hand, and there must be something more
 
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Do you know why the game plan was so pass oriented? Maybe go over the last 6 games in the same way you just did for this game and you may be enlightened. I would suggest that it had very little to do with MSU.
 
Do you know why the game plan was so pass oriented? Maybe go over the last 6 games in the same way you just did for this game and you may be enlightened. I would suggest that it had very little to do with MSU.
MSU is a top ten run defense.
 
So are Michigan and OSU. That didn't stop us from trying to run against them. Why did it stop us from trying to run against MSU? What changed?

I don't know. Maybe the coaching staff is finally getting around to reading this board and incorporating some of the suggestions.
 
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MSU is a top ten run defense.

So, we should call a lot of plays inside to fail and only a few to the outside that worked and ignore McSorley's inability to throw short passes on the run to wide open receivers?????????????????????????????
 
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I don't know. Maybe the coaching staff is finally getting around to reading this board and incorporating some of the suggestions.
Or maybe the coaches finally came to accept the deficiency of their run game.
 
Yeah, I do. So would anyone who took a close look at what MSU does on defense, and what PSU has been successful with this year.

It had EVERYTHING to do with the Defense they were facing at MSU.
(which, as I mentioned last week, creates a gigantic opportunity for the play-action - or RPO - pass, above all else)

The same schemes up front that Pitt uses - and just like that game (when Barkley had FIVE carries in the first half), Penn State came out throwing off of the RPO early and often.

Which is EXACTLY what they should have done.

(MSU's schemes on defense are "night and day" different from the defenses of either Michigan or Ohio State, FWIW)
Or, maybe our coaches simply accepted the deficiencies in our run game and so schemed around that.

Mich and OSU have top ten run defenses also.
 
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People are forgetting:

- In last year's amazing season, Barkley topped 100 yards only 5 times
Kent (105)
Maryland (202)
Purdue (207)
Iowa (167)
USC (195)

Most of these totals were aided by breaking one long one.

They also played top 20 rushing defenses Wisconsin, Pitt, Michigan, Ohio State and Minnesota.

This year is following a similar pattern with top 20 run defenses faced including Michigan State, Michigan, Ohio State and Northwestern. Hitting all 4 of those in consecutive games is giving a really false sense of where the OL is at...and also given opposing defenses a whole year now to study PSU and adjust.

Bottom line is the OL is probably not getting worse as much as holding serve given last year's standard while the younger (and more talented) guys can get into weight room and set the wheels in motion for that talent to start contributing next year.

Injuries have thrown a lot of wrenches in this too. Last year it was Nelson, Mahon and Palmer. This year, Nelson again, Wright and most significantly Bates. There is simply not enough experienced depth to plug guys and reshuffle without some serious impact. I firmly believe if Bates does not get hurt in Columbus, we win that game and MSU....and none of this chatter is even noteworthy.

The staff is doing the best they can with this limitation...and save for last weekend's game less than ideal offensive conditions we're still putting up over 34 pts per game. Given where this offense was 2 seasons ago, if you can't be happy with this, if not understanding, there is simply nothing these guys will do to satisfy.
 
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Penn State’s run game woes are being so incredibly overblown (with respect to the offensive line) and misunderstood.

This situation is NOTHING like the situations in 2014 and 2015, when the offensive line was simply not capable of blocking anyone.

Of the eight first half run plays (yes, eight TOTAL in the first half) there were a TOTAL of two run plays that failed due to PSU offensive linemen being badly beaten.

Of the 10 run plays in the second half, aside from the whiff by Wright that prevented a big gained on the draw by McSorley, there were no other run plays destroyed by significant failures up front.

Couple Notes:

1) Penn State definitely had the correct “gameplan” on offense, coming out throwing on nearly every down against the MSU “run first” defensive schemes.
Penn State’s first 4 possessions (before the rain delay): 4 possessions, 217 yards, 2 TDs, 1 INT, 1 Punt
25 of 29 snaps were pass plays.

2) The scheming and play-calling were OUTSTANDING - - - and the run game, aside from the threat of the run game opening up easy throwing lanes, was a non factor (by design) and was perfectly suited to combat MSU's defensive schemes

3) If there is a reason - above all others - that Penn State scored 24 points (and not more than 24 points) it was due to numerous plays available in the pass game not being made - due to drops, miss-throws, or other reasons). No need to go through all of those - but the overthrown/not caught wide-open slant on 4th and 3 alone would have changed the outcome of the game. The underthrown/not caught post to Blacknall (that turned into an interception) was also critical.

4) If there is a reason - above all others - that Michigan State scored 27 points (and not less than 27 points) it was due to Lewerke having an outstanding game, and his outside receivers playing the collective game of their lives - making one play after another in the pass game)


With that, Penn State’s run game vs MSU, in its entirety:

1st Possession:

1-10 Inside RPO Barkley
-1 Yard Fries and Gonzalez were both knocked into the backfield
One of two "the offensive line was owned" plays of the first half.

2nd Possession:

1-10 Inside RPO Barkley
+1 Yard Reasonably well blocked, but Barkley instead cut outside and was tripped up by the edge defender

3rd Possession:

2-1 Inside RPO Barkley
+1 Picks up first down

4th Possession:

None

After rain delay

5th Possession

1-10 Inside RPO Barkley
0 Yards Bad read by McSorley – Slot defender blitzed the run, leaving slot receiver wide open for an easy 10 yard slant

6th Possession:

2-10 (deep in PSU territory) Inside RPO Barkley
-4 Yards Gonzalez and Mahon both completely whiffed on blocks
The second of the two "the offensive line was owned" plays of the first half.

7th Possession:

1-10 (Last play of half) Inside RPO Barkley
+3 Yards

Other first half run plays:

QB draw with McSorley for +2.
Poorly run by McSorley, big lane created to the outside
QB keep by McSorley on an Inside RPO for +2.
MSU was just in the right defense with a run blitz.


Of the eight first half run plays (yes, eight TOTAL in the first half) there were a TOTAL of two run plays that failed due to PSU offensive linemen being badly beaten.Barkley had no more than one carry on any possession, which was a very reasonable game plan given the success of the pass game early on.


2nd Half:

1st Possession:

1-10 Outside toss to Barkley
+3 Yards, nearly turned the corner

2-7 (very next play) Outside toss to Barkley
+36 Yards

2nd Possession:

1-10 Inside RPO to Barkley
+7, very well blocked

3-1 Fake the Outside toss to Barkley, McSorley keeps on counter
+13 Yards, Weak side was wide open with defense flying to Barkley on the other side

1-10 Inside RPO to Barkley
+1 Yard. Bad read by McSorley, end crashed down, outside was wide open

1-10 (red zone) Inside RPO to Barkley
+3 Reasonably well blocked

3rd Possession:
None (70 Yard TD pass on first play)

4th Possession:
2-2 Inside RPO to Barkley
+4 Yards, Very well blocked

5th Possession:

1-10 Inside RPO to Barkley
+ 4 Yards Well blocked

1-10 Inside RPO to Barkley
+5 Yards Well blocked

Other 2nd Half run plays:

1-10 QB Draw for McSorley
-1 Yard. Play was wide open for a big gainer except that Wright whiffed his assignment


Of the 10 run plays in the second half, aside from the whiff by Wright that prevented a big gained on the draw by McSorley, there were no other run plays destroyed by significant failures up front.
The offensive line certainly hasn’t been perfect (or even outstanding), and this doesn’t include pass protection reviews, but focusing only on the run game.


There is probably one glaring issue that could be intelligently criticized.

Here it is:

PSU ran THREE run plays where Barkley was an Outside option (twice when they pitched to him, once when McSorley faked the pitch and ran a counter). One those three plays, PSU picked up 3 yards, 36 yards, and 13 yards.
But those were the only three times Barkley was a threat as a runner to the outside.

On the plays when Barkley was the inside option:
1st Half
: Penn State ran ZERO plays where Barkley was an outside option - - - 7 attempts, 2 yards
2nd Half: After showing 3 plays early in the 2nd half with Barkley as an outside option - - - 6 attempts for 24 yards

So, even with the inside runs, once Penn State showed MSU that they MIGHT run him outside, the running space opened up considerably on the interior.


The huge disparity in success on runs where Barkley is an Inside Option vs an Outside Option has been there ever since the Iowa game. Why there remains such an overwhelming majority of run plays where Barkley is the inside option, and McSorley is the edge option, is kind of hard to figure – but one can’t imagine the offensive staff doesn’t have these breakdowns at hand, and there must be something more

my take is that the defenses are KILLING our tackles and crashing the mesh point on the RPO. To run Barkley wide, you need a good field so he can make his cuts. MSU's field was anything but good.

We scored a ton against tOSU and all of the previous teams so thats not an issue. We had the offense to win games up until MSU but feel there were special circumstances that dictated the game plan.
 
Great analysis.

What’s so sad is after the back to back toss plays to Barkley they never came back to that play.

They also never used any misdirection.....Barkley was wide open at least a half a dozen times for quick swing passes.....no motion at all other than SB coming back into the backfield.....one successful wide receiver screen, never came back to it..... no red zone or any zone sign of Stevens.....I think only two snaps directly to SB.....few three and no four receiver same side formations.....and of course no two back formations.

And none of Franklin’s supposedly “play fast” O. Call three plays before you go in, run them fast fast fast.....maybe you get the D out of position, maybe MSU has to call a timeout. Don’t wait for MSU to get set, get up to the line and go. I doubt we had more than a couple snaps until there were less than 10 seconds on the play clock.
 
Penn State’s run game woes are being so incredibly overblown (with respect to the offensive line) and misunderstood.

This situation is NOTHING like the situations in 2014 and 2015, when the offensive line was simply not capable of blocking anyone.

Of the eight first half run plays (yes, eight TOTAL in the first half) there were a TOTAL of two run plays that failed due to PSU offensive linemen being badly beaten.

Of the 10 run plays in the second half, aside from the whiff by Wright that prevented a big gainer on the draw by McSorley, there were no other run plays destroyed by significant failures up front.

Couple Notes:

1) Penn State definitely had the correct “gameplan” on offense, coming out throwing on nearly every down against the MSU “run first” defensive schemes.
Penn State’s first 4 possessions (before the rain delay): 4 possessions, 217 yards, 2 TDs, 1 INT, 1 Punt
25 of 29 snaps were pass plays. (of course, those passes were - mostly - RPOs, where the PASS option was selected. So maybe its more "accurate" to say the right DECISIONS were being made, rather than the correct game-plan - but the broader point is the same)

2) The scheming and play-calling were OUTSTANDING - - - and the run game, aside from the threat of the run game opening up easy throwing lanes, was a non factor (by design) and was perfectly suited to combat MSU's defensive schemes

3) If there is a reason - above all others - that Penn State scored 24 points (and not more than 24 points) it was due to numerous plays available in the pass game not being made - due to drops, miss-throws, or other reasons). No need to go through all of those - but the overthrown/not caught wide-open slant on 4th and 3 alone would have changed the outcome of the game. The underthrown/not caught post to Blacknall (that turned into an interception) was also critical.

4) If there is a reason - above all others - that Michigan State scored 27 points (and not less than 27 points) it was due to Lewerke having an outstanding game, and his outside receivers playing the collective game of their lives - making one play after another in the pass game)


With that, Penn State’s run game vs MSU, in its entirety:

1st Possession:

1-10 Inside RPO Barkley
-1 Yard Fries and Gonzalez were both knocked into the backfield
One of two "the offensive line was owned" plays of the first half.

2nd Possession:

1-10 Inside RPO Barkley
+1 Yard Reasonably well blocked, but Barkley instead cut outside and was tripped up by the edge defender

3rd Possession:

2-1 Inside RPO Barkley
+1 Picks up first down

4th Possession:

None

After rain delay

5th Possession

1-10 Inside RPO Barkley
0 Yards Bad read by McSorley – Slot defender blitzed the run, leaving slot receiver wide open for an easy 10 yard slant

6th Possession:

2-10 (deep in PSU territory) Inside RPO Barkley
-4 Yards Gonzalez and Mahon both completely whiffed on blocks
The second of the two "the offensive line was owned" plays of the first half.

7th Possession:

1-10 (Last play of half) Inside RPO Barkley
+3 Yards

Other first half run plays:

QB draw with McSorley for +2.
Poorly run by McSorley, big lane created to the outside
QB keep by McSorley on an Inside RPO for +2.
MSU was just in the right defense with a run blitz.


Of the eight first half run plays (yes, eight TOTAL in the first half) there were a TOTAL of two run plays that failed due to PSU offensive linemen being badly beaten.Barkley had no more than one carry on any possession, which was a very reasonable game plan given the success of the pass game early on.


2nd Half:

1st Possession:

1-10 Outside toss to Barkley
+3 Yards, nearly turned the corner

2-7 (very next play) Outside toss to Barkley
+36 Yards

2nd Possession:

1-10 Inside RPO to Barkley
+7, very well blocked

3-1 Fake the Outside toss to Barkley, McSorley keeps on counter
+13 Yards, Weak side was wide open with defense flying to Barkley on the other side

1-10 Inside RPO to Barkley
+1 Yard. Bad read by McSorley, end crashed down, outside was wide open

1-10 (red zone) Inside RPO to Barkley
+3 Reasonably well blocked

3rd Possession:
None (70 Yard TD pass on first play)

4th Possession:
2-2 Inside RPO to Barkley
+4 Yards, Very well blocked

5th Possession:

1-10 Inside RPO to Barkley
+ 4 Yards Well blocked

1-10 Inside RPO to Barkley
+5 Yards Well blocked

Other 2nd Half run plays:

1-10 QB Draw for McSorley
-1 Yard. Play was wide open for a big gainer except that Wright whiffed his assignment


Of the 10 run plays in the second half, aside from the whiff by Wright that prevented a big gainer on the draw by McSorley, there were no other run plays destroyed by significant failures up front.
The offensive line certainly hasn’t been perfect (or even outstanding), and this doesn’t include pass protection reviews, but focusing only on the run game.


There is probably one glaring issue that could be intelligently criticized.

Here it is:

PSU ran THREE run plays where Barkley was an Outside option (twice when they pitched to him, once when McSorley faked the pitch and ran a counter). One those three plays, PSU picked up 3 yards, 36 yards, and 13 yards.
But those were the only three times Barkley was a threat as a runner to the outside.

On the plays when Barkley was the inside option:
1st Half
: Penn State ran ZERO plays where Barkley was an outside option - - - 7 attempts, 2 yards
2nd Half: After showing 3 plays early in the 2nd half with Barkley as an outside option - - - 6 attempts for 24 yards

So, even with the inside runs, once Penn State showed MSU that they MIGHT run him outside, the running space opened up considerably on the interior.


The huge disparity in success on runs where Barkley is an Inside Option vs an Outside Option has been there ever since the Iowa game. Why there remains such an overwhelming majority of run plays where Barkley is the inside option, and McSorley is the edge option, is kind of hard to figure – but one can’t imagine the offensive staff doesn’t have these breakdowns at hand, and there must be something more
Ok Stormin' talk to me about this play what you see... (right after the KO)

 
I already "told" you (not that you'd know)

This is how I described it:

"6th Possession:
2-10 (deep in PSU territory) Inside RPO Barkley
-4 Yards Gonzalez and Mahon both completely whiffed on blocks
The second of the two "the offensive line was owned" plays of the first half."



Which is exactly what happened - isn't it?
Or, would you disagree?
I didnt know which possession is which. the real question here, is not that they whiffed, but why did they whiff? Everybody sees that they whiffed. MSU DT's slanted left, redirected and made the play. If on the other hand, instead of asking our guys to block them 1 on 1, we asked them to block half the man with his adjacent guy blocking the other half, we would have had a play. so imagine 74 coming off and taking the DT, but when he goes back door, the OC is there to take the DT we have that guy blocked. Same way with 70, if the ROT comes down and blocks his backside we have that guy blocked as well, at least we have a better hat on the guy, so instead of losing yardage backed up vs the goalline, we have a better down and distance to work with on second down. Instead of 2-13 , we would have 2 and 7 or something.
When I see this, I think it is more scheme then players. When I listened to the podcast and ML says we couldnt block Kevin Givens one on one, I would say yes but my 2 guys can block him.
 
Have you ever seen a game where the offensive line (ANY offensive line, let alone one that was just re-configured due to injury) never got beat?
If you have, I would expect you either were not watching very closely - or are blind.

Having 3 running plays FUBAR-ed by offensive line whiffs, over an entire game, when playing a top-notch defense, is not exactly reason for summary execution of the starting five - or the dismissal of the offensive line coach and co-ordinator.
.
Unless, of course, we are talking about the reactions of ding-dong football fans.
sure everybody whiffs, I get that. What I dont get is putting the player on an island and he can beat both ways. The DT slants, so he whiffs, you just cant have that. There are other ways to block the play. Watch this clip, this is exactly the same play, but blocked another way. My 2 can beat your 1. Oh and BTW a lot of similarities here including the teams LT, and best lineman out for the year to start.

https://www.nfl.com/share/10103061-7033-0000-0087-2311ee11bd8f
 
And there in lies a problem with RPO. If the defense takes your run game away and the weather (wind and rain) make passing difficult you have problem. Keep in mind MSU had several drops that may have been weather related.
 
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