OT: Hazleton, Pa featured in Nat Geo article on race...

[anon_xdc8rmuek44eq]

Interesting read on Sunday morning.

As America Changes, Some Anxious Whites Feel Left Behind - National Geographic

https://apple.news/AsSFpZDOvQfCxYT4zneuaQg

Anyone from, or live in, Hazleton?

Excerpt:

Hazleton was another former coal mining town slipping into decline until a wave of Latinos arrived. It would not be an overstatement to say a tidal wave. In 2000 Hazleton’s 23,399 residents were 95 percent non-Hispanic white and less than 5 percent Latino. By 2016 Latinos became the majority, composing 52 percent of the population, while the white share plunged to 44 percent.

“We joke about it and say we are in the minority now,” says Bob Sacco, a bartender at A&L Lounge, a tavern on a street now mainly filled with Latino-owned storefronts. “They took over the city. We joke about it all the time, but it’s more than a joke.”

 

[captain pipe]

Interesting read on Sunday morning.

As America Changes, Some Anxious Whites Feel Left Behind - National Geographic

https://apple.news/AsSFpZDOvQfCxYT4zneuaQg

Anyone from, or live in, Hazleton?

Excerpt:

Hazleton was another former coal mining town slipping into decline until a wave of Latinos arrived. It would not be an overstatement to say a tidal wave. In 2000 Hazleton’s 23,399 residents were 95 percent non-Hispanic white and less than 5 percent Latino. By 2016 Latinos became the majority, composing 52 percent of the population, while the white share plunged to 44 percent.

“We joke about it and say we are in the minority now,” says Bob Sacco, a bartender at A&L Lounge, a tavern on a street now mainly filled with Latino-owned storefronts. “They took over the city. We joke about it all the time, but it’s more than a joke.”

With Lou Barletta as a resident of Hazelton people should be looking for a way out of town pronto!

 

[Nittany Ziggy]

Relevance?

 

[anon_xdc8rmuek44eq]

Relevance?

Cultural or intellectual curiosity; regional significance; personal edification. Or you can pass - don’t care.

 

[PaFootbalGuy]

Former resident. While some aspects of the piece are sensationalized, the core message is correct.

The same thing happened to Reading and Allentown a generation ago, although those areas have much more white collar work.

The town is full of poor housing stock and few well paying jobs. If the Hispanic folks didn’t move in large swaths of the city would be abandoned. The old Hazleton is long dead. Would you prefer a blighted and abandoned city, or a city being reinvented by a new group of people?

 

[Shendojoe]

The same is true in Shenandoah. The town is being reinvented slowly by “those people”. When my family came here in the 1900s from Eastern Europe to work the mines we were “those people”.

 

[anon_xdc8rmuek44eq]

Former resident. While some aspects of the piece are sensationalized, the core message is correct.

The same thing happened to Reading and Allentown a generation ago, although those areas have much more white collar work.

The town is full of poor housing stock and few well paying jobs. If the Hispanic folks didn’t move in large swaths of the city would be abandoned. The old Hazleton is long dead. Would you prefer a blighted and abandoned city, or a city being reinvented by a new group of people?

My family is from Western PA (Beaver County) and I haven’t noticed this as much - what is the draw to central/eastern PA?

 

[PaFootbalGuy]

By the way most of the smaller coal region towns are blighted. Houses literally falling down, and population down 30-40 percent from just a few years ago. There are a some immigrants coming to these places, but most seem to settle in Hazleton or Wilkes-Barre.

The coal region is on the brink of economic disaster in the vein of Detroit. More abandoned and blighted properties than viable ones. The vast majority of employable young adults moving far away. This has been happening for decades, but seems to be approaching critical mass these days.

As an example

The hospital in which I was born- closed

The elementary school I attended- closed

My church growing up- closed

My old little league, and CYO league- closed

My high school- will be closed in 5 years

The local volunteer fire house- closed

I am not even 40 years old!

 

[anon_xdc8rmuek44eq]

By the way most of the smaller coal region towns are blighted. Houses literally falling down, and population down 30-40 percent from just a few years ago. There are a some immigrants coming to these places, but most seem to settle in Hazleton or Wilkes-Barre.

The coal region is on the brink of economic disaster in the vein of Detroit. More abandoned and blighted properties than viable ones. The vast majority of employable young adults moving far away. This has been happening for decades, but seems to be approaching critical mass these days.

As an example

The hospital in which I was born- closed

The elementary school I attended- closed

My church growing up- closed

My old little league, and CYO league- closed

My high school- will be closed in 5 years

The local volunteer fire house- closed

I am not even 40 years old!

Wow. I think part of it is over reliance on one industry - like cars in Detroit, and steel in Pittsburgh, which has pivoted more recently and seems to be in the upswing.

 

[PaFootbalGuy]

My family is from Western PA (Beaver County) and I haven’t noticed this as much - what is the draw to central/eastern PA?

Much of it is the proximity to NYC. This part of PA is really the closest cheap place to live to NYC.

Most are Dominicans. They come to NYC and learn through word of mouth that Hazleton has cheap housing and abundant low level jobs. Hazleton sits at the cross roads of interstate 80 and 81 (2 hours or so from NY/NJ ports) so it has become a warehouse and distribution center Mecca.

Amazon and many other companies have huge distribution centers near Hazleton, and can’t hire fast enough. Folks come with a near guaranteed job in a warehouse and can buy a house for 30k. While the pay still stinks, these folks can easily have a better standard of living in than in NYC or the DR.

 

[PaFootbalGuy]

Wow. I think part of it is over reliance on one industry - like cars in Detroit, and steel in Pittsburgh, which has pivoted more recently and seems to be in the upswing.

Yup. Anthracite coal mining is obviously not coming back. Hazleton has attracted some quality employers over the years, like a large Hershey plant and a few others, that pay good wages. However, there are still few jobs the average college graduate would want, with the obvious exception of teachers and medical professionals who are of course required everywhere.

 

[PaFootbalGuy]

The same is true in Shenandoah. The town is being reinvented slowly by “those people”. When my family came here in the 1900s from Eastern Europe to work the mines we were “those people”.

Joe, my Dad if from Shendo, Skook ave in the heights. You are absolutely correct. It is re-invention or death for the coal region at this point. My family is Lithuanian and we were certainly considered to be amongst the lowest of classes when they got off the boat.

I know it kills my dad seeing his town in such condition.

 

[91Joe95]

With Lou Barletta as a resident of Hazelton people should be looking for a way out of town pronto!

Sounds like they already did. It's easy to say 52%, but 52% of what? That's a big red flag when they start switching statistics. Quite frankly it screams agenda and a poorly or possibly contradicted supported point of view. These articles, I mean seriously, there are some garbage reporters out there. In a country of 315MM+ people, practically every viewpoint is available, and yet reporters act like a minority view is representative.

 

[91Joe95]

Former resident. While some aspects of the piece are sensationalized, the core message is correct.

The same thing happened to Reading and Allentown a generation ago, although those areas have much more white collar work.

The town is full of poor housing stock and few well paying jobs. If the Hispanic folks didn’t move in large swaths of the city would be abandoned. The old Hazleton is long dead. Would you prefer a blighted and abandoned city, or a city being reinvented by a new group of people?

Yes, but is the anxiety truly economic or race?

 

[PaFootbalGuy]

Yes, but is the anxiety truly economic or race?

It is of course race, but economics have created the conditions that have attracted a very specific subsection of immigrants.

People don’t like their town taken over, and certainly makes it worse when the newcomers look and talk differently. I am not defending or encouraging this view, but understand why people feel this way.

 

[Class of 67]

Trying to recall exactly where in the area Joe Madden is from, but I recall reading that he returns in the off season to help integrate immigrants and work to moderate attitudes against them. I hope I have that close to what I read.

 

[psuro]

It is of course race, but economics have created the conditions that have attracted a very specific subsection of immigrants.

People don’t like their town taken over, and certainly makes it worse when the newcomers look and talk differently. I am not defending or encouraging this view, but understand why people feel this way.

Pretty sure Geronimo Sitting Bull and Pocahontas would agree with your last statement.

It's not just rural areas like Hazleton that are like this. Urban areas have become racial enclaves and even those are changing racial make up.

 

[LemonEars]

Trying to recall exactly where in the area Joe Madden is from, but I recall reading that he returns in the off season to help integrate immigrants and work to moderate attitudes against them. I hope I have that close to what I read.

Joe Maddon was born in West Hazleton in 1954. West Hazleton is about 3 miles from Hazleton. His mother is still a waitress in Hazleton and Joe visits Hazleton often.

 

[anon_xdc8rmuek44eq]

Sounds like they already did. It's easy to say 52%, but 52% of what? That's a big red flag when they start switching statistics. Quite frankly it screams agenda and a poorly or possibly contradicted supported point of view. These articles, I mean seriously, there are some garbage reporters out there. In a country of 315MM+ people, practically every viewpoint is available, and yet reporters act like a minority view is representative.

The 52% refers to the population shift of former minorities to the majority in Hazleton; not the entire US. Or am I missing your point?

 

[PaFootbalGuy]

Trying to recall exactly where in the area Joe Madden is from, but I recall reading that he returns in the off season to help integrate immigrants and work to moderate attitudes against them. I hope I have that close to what I read.

Joe grew up right in the middle of Hazleton. He has a center that has a boys & girls club vibe. They offer after school tutoring, athletics and clubs to give kids a positive place to go and interact. He is doing a good thing, but many natives will tell you that Joe believes his influence is larger than it actually is. I applaud Joe’s efforts, but many have stated calling him St. Joe in a mocking manner.

 

[Gnat91]

Interesting read on Sunday morning.

As America Changes, Some Anxious Whites Feel Left Behind - National Geographic

https://apple.news/AsSFpZDOvQfCxYT4zneuaQg

Anyone from, or live in, Hazleton?

Excerpt:

Hazleton was another former coal mining town slipping into decline until a wave of Latinos arrived. It would not be an overstatement to say a tidal wave. In 2000 Hazleton’s 23,399 residents were 95 percent non-Hispanic white and less than 5 percent Latino. By 2016 Latinos became the majority, composing 52 percent of the population, while the white share plunged to 44 percent.

“We joke about it and say we are in the minority now,” says Bob Sacco, a bartender at A&L Lounge, a tavern on a street now mainly filled with Latino-owned storefronts. “They took over the city. We joke about it all the time, but it’s more than a joke.”

Grew up near Hazleton. I can remember when all of this actually started... It has to have been 10 - 15 years ago maybe a little longer. This was a big deal back then. If anyone is familiar with NEPA, people are stuck in their ways . A lot of them felt threatened and bartletta was just adding fuel to the fire. Haven't payed attention to it for a while but I imagine the older crowd probably died off, kids sold their houses and moved out of state .. Etc... Same thing is happening in the town I grew up in right now.

 

[PaFootbalGuy]

I can talk about the plight of Hazleton and the coal region all day... for days in fact. I also get super interested in other industrial communities in that have suffered the same fate. I suppose it may be because I’ve always heard parents, relatives and friends talk endlessly about the good old days when streets were full with kids and well kept houses. I will be away, but look forward to continuing this discussion.

 

[anon_xdc8rmuek44eq]

Joe grew up right in the middle of Hazleton. He has a center that has a boys & girls club vibe. They offer after school tutoring, athletics and clubs to give kids a positive place to go and interact. He is doing a good thing, but many natives will tell you that Joe believes his influence is larger than it actually is. I applaud Joe’s efforts, but many have stated calling him St. Joe in a mocking manner.

There's an interesting political dichotomy when it comes to immigration and immigrants; namely, Christian organizations (especially evangelicals) are very much in favor of it and are often the conduit by which many immigrants assimilate in this country. That doesn't always jive with the folks they are politically aligned with though.

 

[BobPSU92]

The same is true in Shenandoah. The town is being reinvented slowly by “those people”. When my family came here in the 1900s from Eastern Europe to work the mines we were “those people”.

 

[Gnat91]

I can talk about the plight of Hazleton and the coal region all day... for days in fact. I also get super interested in other industrial communities in that have suffered the same fate. I suppose it may be because I’ve always heard parents, relatives and friends talk endlessly about the good old days when streets were full with kids and well kept houses. I will be away, but look forward to continuing this discussion.

It truly sucks those days are gone. I can remember knowing almost everyone on my block and their kids. Never having to lock doors.. Kids were outside everywhere . . That's long gone and it sucks

 

[anon_xdc8rmuek44eq]

I can talk about the plight of Hazleton and the coal region all day... for days in fact. I also get super interested in other industrial communities in that have suffered the same fate. I suppose it may be because I’ve always heard parents, relatives and friends talk endlessly about the good old days when streets were full with kids and well kept houses. I will be away, but look forward to continuing this discussion.

Appreciate your contributions and insight - very interesting subject for me as well (noting the steel industry in Western PA was the 'industry'); would hear about how my uncles had payroll checks laying around the house uncashed and how bars were open for all shifts and the streets were full of new cars. What a time, right?

Aliquippa, PA - 1938

Hazleton, PA - 1957

 

[Nittany Ziggy]

Yes, but is the anxiety truly economic or race?

Your use of the word "or" narrows the argument to 2 distinct answers. Perhaps, there is more to the story, such as ILLEGAL immigration, versus the legal immigration that most of this town's original population used to matriculate to the region. Don't you just love the Confederate flag hanging in the background of the Nat Geo cover picture? They aren't trying to politicize this story at all, are they?

 

[91Joe95]

The 52% refers to the population shift of former minorities to the majority in Hazleton; not the entire US. Or am I missing your point?

The earlier statistic was 95% white of ~24k in 2000. Now it's 44%, but of what. Race is blamed in the article for the anxiety, but yet the new population is what? Has it shrunk significantly? A massive shrinkage in population can have a much more significant impact on those percentages than race. That article blames race for the anxiety, and yet what are the truly significant and underlying factors? Loss of industry, jobs, blight, too much housing, school closings, etc. These are things that significantly impact anxiety for those left behind, and yet what is front and center? Race. Good lord, look at the discussions in this thread from people from the area, not once is race brought up for problems in the area, and yet even some of them say is race is a big problem. Problem is everyone overlooks what really drives people's fears and glosses them over, yet has no problem interjecting race as the culprit.

 

[Raffycorn]

Although it was in Shenandoah and not Hazleton, I'm a little surprised that the article didn't mention the 2009 lynching of Luis Ramirez and the subsequent cover-up and acquittal of his killers.

 

[Nittany Ziggy]

Although it was in Shenandoah and not Hazleton, I'm a little surprised that the article didn't mention the 2009 lynching of Luis Ramirez and the subsequent cover-up and acquittal of his killers.

Thank you Raffy for being completely topical and “on point”, as always. How about that Confederate flag?

 

[Big 0]

By the way most of the smaller coal region towns are blighted. Houses literally falling down, and population down 30-40 percent from just a few years ago. There are a some immigrants coming to these places, but most seem to settle in Hazleton or Wilkes-Barre.

The coal region is on the brink of economic disaster in the vein of Detroit. More abandoned and blighted properties than viable ones. The vast majority of employable young adults moving far away. This has been happening for decades, but seems to be approaching critical mass these days.

As an example

The hospital in which I was born- closed

The elementary school I attended- closed

My church growing up- closed

My old little league, and CYO league- closed

My high school- will be closed in 5 years

The local volunteer fire house- closed

I am not even 40 years old!

You must have been born at Hazleton St. Joseph’s as was my youngest daughter.

When I lived there in the early 90’s it was still a segregated town. There was the Polish neighborhood, the Italian neighborhood, etc. The realtors would avoid showing a home in the Italian neighborhood to someone who’s name ended in ski. The town was rapidly going downhill then and continued to get worse. In the early 90’s most of the population consisted of 75+ year old widows of dead coal miners. There were very few jobs except for service oriented ones, primarily for service oriented professionals such as accountants, lawyers, healthcare providers, etc.

 

[Big 0]

What some people are missing here is how crime skyrocketed in Hazleton after the arrival of the newcomers. I know people who stayed there several years after I moved away and told me how things had become. Supposedly the mob moved out because the town as not profitable anymore, and that’s when things started getting worse because they had been keeping some things in order.

Two independent sources told me of stories voluntarily (without me asking) that if you drove down certain streets and stopped at a stop sign, gang members would surround your car and wouldn’t let you proceed unless you paid them cash to let you continue on. The one person I spoke with started carrying a revolver on his front seat and if confronted waved it at the gang members so he didn’t have to relinquish cash to them. Since he was in his 80’s, he didn’t care if he shot one of them or not, and didn’t care about the consequences.

 

[psuro]

I have s feeling this thread is going to devolve pretty quickly.

 

[BBrown]

Former resident. While some aspects of the piece are sensationalized, the core message is correct.

The same thing happened to Reading and Allentown a generation ago, although those areas have much more white collar work.

The town is full of poor housing stock and few well paying jobs. If the Hispanic folks didn’t move in large swaths of the city would be abandoned. The old Hazleton is long dead. Would you prefer a blighted and abandoned city, or a city being reinvented by a new group of people?

Also didn't it happen to Lancaster in the the late 90's early 00's with Puerto Ricans mostly from NYC?

 

[BBrown]

My family is from Western PA (Beaver County) and I haven’t noticed this as much - what is the draw to central/eastern PA?

I'm from Somerset county and I've seen an increase but I wouldn't call it "Big" but certainly noticeable.

 

[anon_xdc8rmuek44eq]

The earlier statistic was 95% white of ~24k in 2000. Now it's 44%, but of what. Race is blamed in the article for the anxiety, but yet the new population is what? Has it shrunk significantly? A massive shrinkage in population can have a much more significant impact on those percentages than race. That article blames race for the anxiety, and yet what are the truly significant and underlying factors? Loss of industry, jobs, blight, too much housing, school closings, etc. These are things that significantly impact anxiety for those left behind, and yet what is front and center? Race. Good lord, look at the discussions in this thread from people from the area, not once is race brought up for problems in the area, and yet even some of them say is race is a big problem. Problem is everyone overlooks what really drives people's fears and glosses them over, yet has no problem interjecting race as the culprit.

Here is the quote, and you bring up a good point:

In 2000 Hazleton’s 23,399 residents were 95 percent non-Hispanic white and less than 5 percent Latino. By 2016 Latinos became the majority, composing 52 percent of the population, while the white share plunged to 44 percent.

According to the U.S. Census Bureau, the population of Hazleton, PA in 2016 was 24,659.

As far as where 'race' fits in, there several quotes from longtime Hazleton locals in the article about 'them', being 'outnumbered', etc. I get your point though I don't think the point of the article is that the population shift in race is to blame for anything really - it's more about how longtime locals feel about the change and how it impacts their lives. I didn't see anything related to the problems of the area and if/how race factored.

 

[anon_xdc8rmuek44eq]

I have s feeling this thread is going to devolve pretty quickly.

Probably. But, that's what 'ignore' is for. Good discussion from the posters I can see .

 

[Shendojoe]

Joe, my Dad if from Shendo, Skook ave in the heights. You are absolutely correct. It is re-invention or death for the coal region at this point. My family is Lithuanian and we were certainly considered to be amongst the lowest of classes when they got off the boat.

I know it kills my dad seeing his town in such condition.

My family is Lithuanian also.

 

[PaFootbalGuy]

It truly sucks those days are gone. I can remember knowing almost everyone on my block and their kids. Never having to lock doors.. Kids were outside everywhere . . That's long gone and it sucks

It was still this way for the most part when I was a kid. The WW2 generation was still around in large numbers and kept the old ways alive. You’re right in that when most of them passed the fabric of the community died as there was nobody to replace them, or were replaced by some people with different values.

Although it was in Shenandoah and not Hazleton, I'm a little surprised that the article didn't mention the 2009 lynching of Luis Ramirez and the subsequent cover-up and acquittal of his killers.

Nobody was acquitted. Those responsible went to jail as they should have.

 

[PaFootbalGuy]

Also didn't it happen to Lancaster in the the late 90's early 00's with Puerto Ricans mostly from NYC?

I’m not extremely familiar with Lancaster but I believe that is correct. The city of Lancaster has a lot going for it these days but has a much better and diversified economy.