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OT: Hazleton, Pa featured in Nat Geo article on race...

I don't care about West Virginia, and don't pretend to know anything about the specifics of their issues. And there are issues beyond drugs in Hazleton, including those highlighted previously. The schools are bursting at the seams due to the influx of new students. Emergency Room waiting times are off the charts. Police and EMS coverage is stretched beyond their limits. You can continue to try to argue from a Liberal mindset, but good people will continue to move away, and in 5 years we can revisit this conversation, when it becomes 100% clear that the demographic shift directly led to the downfall of this community.

Please answer my question above - what would have happened to Hazleton if Latinos had not moved there? To expand on this - what would be the draw to the area for "good people" to move there and/or stay?

I really do not know the area (except for a brief visit in the late 1980's), so please inform me.
 
From the article you linked:

For the first time, in 2013, Hispanic and non-Hispanic adult arrests were essentially even, at 704 Hispanics and 703 non-Hispanics, UCR data show. Just eight years earlier, in 2005, there were 806 non-Hispanics arrested and 216 Hispanics.

Your point is that the Latino gangs are bringing in and peddling the drugs, right?
Whatever point you were trying to make there was completely lost in translation- SORRY!
 
I don't care about West Virginia, and don't pretend to know anything about the specifics of their issues. And there are issues beyond drugs in Hazleton, including those highlighted previously. The schools are bursting at the seams due to the influx of new students. Emergency Room waiting times are off the charts. Police and EMS coverage is stretched beyond their limits. You can continue to try to argue from a Liberal mindset, but good people will continue to move away, and in 5 years we can revisit this conversation, when it becomes 100% clear that the demographic shift directly led to the downfall of this community.
As opposed to the people moving in, who you have already decided are not “good people”, right? I wonder what the difference might be.
 
Please answer my question above - what would have happened to Hazleton if Latinos had not moved there? To expand on this - what would be the draw to the area for "good people" to move there and/or stay?

I really do not know the area (except for a brief visit in the late 1980's), so please inform me.
I don't know. That would really depend upon the political leadership at the local level, which has been really lacking over the past decade, and probably longer. The fact that driving a forklift for $20 at an Amazon warehouse is one of the better jobs is a problem, and maybe the right minds could have attracted better paying, white collar opportunities?

Given that much of the aged population died out, it's possible that the entire community would have gone the way of Eckley Miners Village, and completely died out (save for a handful of holdout residents). I can't say whether that would have been better or worse than what's there today. I'm not saying that it was ever any sort of utopia, but now it's just downright scary, with no possibility of recovery in sight.
 
if the Latinos had not moved into Hazleton-what would it be like now?

Curious as to the answers I might receive to that question.

Elderly people living in their homes by themselves vs. selling to get into a retirement or suburban area for reason of crimes and gangs.

NAFTA killed a lot of industry here, so on the working end it would be up to the Chamber Of Commerce to attract Industry, as i stated before it's manufacturing vs. warehousing.

Crime would have been considerably down, 20 years ago if you were cruising around at 3:00 A.M., you were getting pulled over don't care what age or race you were. Now you have tricked our Escalades, Hummers, Audi's etc., rolling in Fri. and Sun. nights with NY & NJ plates and don't you dare pull them over.

Playgrounds would be hangouts for children, not gangs. Any of you out there when you were in your 20's ride Mongoose type bikes in pairs?, i don't think so.

I think i could walk in NYC at 2:00 A.M. and feel safe, but i dare anyone to do so on Altar or Wyoming St. at the same time. Remember people in gated communities shouldn't throw stones. It's not about skin color it's about crime and who's presently driving it, people just want to live in peace, and they can't as long as drug dealers and gangs thumb their noses at authority.
 
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Please answer my question above - what would have happened to Hazleton if Latinos had not moved there? To expand on this - what would be the draw to the area for "good people" to move there and/or stay?

I really do not know the area (except for a brief visit in the late 1980's), so please inform me.
Elderly people living in their homes by themselves vs. selling to get into a retirement or suburban area for reason of crimes and gangs.

NAFTA killed a lot of industry here, so on the working end it would be up to the Chamber Of Commerce to attract Industry, as i stated before it's manufacturing vs. warehousing.

Crime would have been considerably down, 20 years ago if you were cruising around at 3:00 A.M., you were getting pulled over don't care what age or race you were. Now you have tricked our Escalades, Hummers, Audi's etc., rolling in Fri. and Sun. nights with NY & NJ plates and don't you dare pull them over.

Playgrounds would be hangouts for children, not gangs. Any of you out there when you were in your 20's ride Mongoose type bikes in pairs?, i don't think so.

I think i could walk in NYC at 2:00 A.M. and feel safe, but i dare anyone to do so on Altar or Wyoming St. at the same time. Remember people in gated communities shouldn't throw stones. It's not about skin color it's about crime and who's presently driving it, people just want to live in peace, and they can't as long as drug dealers and gangs thumb their noses at authority.

This is from January 18, 2018 (a local news station); is this wrong?

HAZLETON, LUZERNE COUNTY

(WBRE/WYOU)- According to statistics from the FBI, crime is down some 40% over the past two years in Hazleton.

No doubt that many of us have heard the phrase "perception is reality." That seems to be the case in Hazleton.

Rarely does a day go by that Eyewitness News does not report a crime in the city, but the police chief points out it's a crime that was solved or stopped while it was being committed.

On Wednesday, police responded to a shooting and stabbing in center city. Two teenagers were quickly arrested in connection with the crime, but despite this:

"I feel like the community is feeling a little bit safe," said Bob Yevak, who runs a car detailing business in Hazleton. "There's a presence of cops everywhere no matter where I walk, five, six miles a day, there are cops that pass me."

And that presence is making a difference.

"By us being out there the walking patrols and saturation patrols, going to the hot spots," said Chief Jerry Speziale of the Hazleton Police Department. "It's about going to that location where crime is most likely to happen and preventing that crime from happening."

And according the to latest FBI stats, it seems to be working. Between 2015 and 2017, crime rate in Hazleton dropped by 40%. Violent crimes like murder, robbery, and assault dropped by 50%.

The mayor says the public is also making a difference.

"A lot of our success comes from the people of the city," said Mayor Jeff Cusat. "We've been getting a lot of phone calls, a lot of tips. People actually see things that bother them and call."

Speziale admits the drop in crime rate really means nothing if people do not feel safe in their neighborhoods. He insists his officers are working hard everyday to make that a reality.

Other cities in our area that also saw a drop in crime include Wilkes-Barre and Scranton.
 
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May i ad one more item to this topic, just recently the Lancaster school district will receive 24 million dollars more than the Hazleton Area school district for having 185 more students, does that seem fair?
 
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I don't know. That would really depend upon the political leadership at the local level, which has been really lacking over the past decade, and probably longer. The fact that driving a forklift for $20 at an Amazon warehouse is one of the better jobs is a problem, and maybe the right minds could have attracted better paying, white collar opportunities?

Given that much of the aged population died out, it's possible that the entire community would have gone the way of Eckley Miners Village, and completely died out (save for a handful of holdout residents). I can't say whether that would have been better or worse than what's there today. I'm not saying that it was ever any sort of utopia, but now it's just downright scary, with no possibility of recovery in sight.


Let's look at your comment about $20 hour forklift operators - that works out to $41,600/year (assuming a 40 hour a week job). That is about $10,000 more per year than the US Annual Per Capita Income. Pennsylvania's income (per capita) is roughly $30,000.

The average income in Hazleton (based on a quick google search) is $39,500.

So, your forklift operator's salary IS roughly the average,(give or take) not the high end of the curve. And it's greater than either PA or the country wide per capita income. Which means that Hazleton has a higher income, per capita, than the rest of PA.

So, I am not sure why it would be considered to be economically depressed. Was it a panacea of millionaires and billionaires in the past? Was it the Coal Region's answer to the Principality of Monaco?
 
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Your use of the word "or" narrows the argument to 2 distinct answers. Perhaps, there is more to the story, such as ILLEGAL immigration, versus the legal immigration that most of this town's original population used to matriculate to the region. Don't you just love the Confederate flag hanging in the background of the Nat Geo cover picture? They aren't trying to politicize this story at all, are they?

Lib media loves to portray rural whites (and Trump Voters and Tea Party members) as toothless, half-wit, inbred Klan members. On this sort of story, the journalist will pick out the dumbest looking bubba in the room and shove a mic in his (probably toothless) face. IMO, the prejudice that most metropolitan based journalists have toward rural whites is greater than the prejudice that most rural whites have toward minorities.

Disclaimer - I'm not saying there aren't racist rednecks out there ... and no, I did NOT vote for Trump.
 
Lib media loves to portray rural whites (and Trump Voters and Tea Party members) as toothless, half-wit, inbred Klan members. On this sort of story, the journalist will pick out the dumbest looking bubba in the room and shove a mic in his (probably toothless) face. IMO, the prejudice that most metropolitan based journalists have toward rural whites is greater than the prejudice that most rural whites have toward minorities.

Disclaimer - I'm not saying there aren't racist rednecks out there ... and no, I did NOT vote for Trump.

As opposed to other general characterizations of ethnic groups made by the media?
 
Lib media loves to portray rural whites (and Trump Voters and Tea Party members) as toothless, half-wit, inbred Klan members. On this sort of story, the journalist will pick out the dumbest looking bubba in the room and shove a mic in his (probably toothless) face. IMO, the prejudice that most metropolitan based journalists have toward rural whites is greater than the prejudice that most rural whites have toward minorities.

Disclaimer - I'm not saying there aren't racist rednecks out there ... and no, I did NOT vote for Trump.

The first person interviewed for this article, Sally Yale, owns a local coffee shop. Her comment about going to the annual 'Funfest' was:

“You just know if you go to a public event, you know you are going to be outnumbered,” Yale says. “You know you’re going to be the minority, and do you want to go?”

The picture of the girl in front of her home flying the Confederate flag has this caption:

Felyssa Ricco stands outside the house in Hazleton, Pennsylvania, where she lives with her mother and stepfather, Kelly and Jesse Portanova. In addition to flying Old Glory and other flags, such as “Don’t Tread on Me,” the Portanovas sometimes fly the Confederate flag, saying it’s a way of standing up to those who believe it shouldn’t be displayed or who want to disregard America’s history.

I don't see how either of those items are prejudiced or even presented with prejudice. Both (the coffee shop owner and the girl in the picture) are exercising their right to free speech/expression and while they're not points of view I particularly agree with, they're certainly entitled to them. Fact is a lot of folks in this country feel like them and that's fine - trying to blanket coverage of those folks as prejudiced is wrong IMO; as they would probably tell you - that's just who they are.


 
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The first person interviewed for this article, Sally Yale, owns a local coffee shop. Her comment about going to the annual 'Funfest' was:

“You just know if you go to a public event, you know you are going to be outnumbered,” Yale says. “You know you’re going to be the minority, and do you want to go?”

The picture of the girl in front of her home flying the Confederate flag has this caption:

Felyssa Ricco stands outside the house in Hazleton, Pennsylvania, where she lives with her mother and stepfather, Kelly and Jesse Portanova. In addition to flying Old Glory and other flags, such as “Don’t Tread on Me,” the Portanovas sometimes fly the Confederate flag, saying it’s a way of standing up to those who believe it shouldn’t be displayed or who want to disregard America’s history.

I don't see how either of those items are prejudiced or even presented with prejudice. Both (the coffee shop owner and the girl in the picture) are exercising their right to free speech/expression and while they're not points of view I particularly agree with, they're certainly entitled to them. Fact is a lot of folks in this country feel like them and that's fine - trying to blanket coverage of those folks as prejudiced is wrong IMO; as they would probably tell you - that's just who they are.


With regard to Ms. Yale's comments - now she knows how minorities, such as Black, Asian, Latino, etc. feel when they are outnumbered. It's not fun, is it?

With regard to the young girl with the Confederate Flag - with freedom of speech comes responsibility of speech. When you push buttons under the guise of freedom of speech - don't be surprised to get a backlash by someone under the same guise of freedom.
 
Let's look at your comment about $20 hour forklift operators - that works out to $41,600/year (assuming a 40 hour a week job). That is about $10,000 more per year than the US Annual Per Capita Income. Pennsylvania's income (per capita) is roughly $30,000.

The average income in Hazleton (based on a quick google search) is $39,500.

So, your forklift operator's salary IS roughly the average,(give or take) not the high end of the curve. And it's greater than either PA or the country wide per capita income. Which means that Hazleton has a higher income, per capita, than the rest of PA.

So, I am not sure why it would be considered to be economically depressed. Was it a panacea of millionaires and billionaires in the past? Was it the Coal Region's answer to the Principality of Monaco?

1. $20/hr is the very tip top of the mountain in those facilities- at what point does inflation outpace that income? Most people make more like $10/hr, and that is through a temp agency, with no benefits.
2. There is not an endless supply of those "decent paying" jobs available- we're talking probably less than 1,000 for an extended community approaching 50,000.
3. I already stated that it was never a utopia, but I do not believe that it's the same as it was, nor do I believe that it will improve. In fact, I will email myself a link to this thread, and if it's still active in 5 years, will bump it up to either gloat or eat crow.

I would hope that most fair-minded people could just agree that the Nat Geo article was at best lazy, which is what I saw as the point of this thread, in that it failed to provide any context as to why locals are concerned beyond "They are brown". We're not going to get full agreement enroute to solving all of the world's problems on this board.

In fact, a participant felt as though she was not portrayed accurately, which screams of an agenda by the author. And there are plenty of houses available for purchase for anyone who thinks that Hazleton will be a good place to live in the future.

http://standardspeaker.com/news/anxiety-rises-over-national-geographic-profile-1.2314779

Hazleton once again finds itself in the national spotlight, as National Geographic magazine unveils its April issue which focuses on race — and as the publication acknowledges its own past racist coverage.

The magazine zoned in on the city, which has seen a dramatic shift in its Anglo-Latino population in the past 16 years well ahead of a projected national shift to a Latino majority in the next quarter century.

The city’s non-Hispanic white population was at more than 90 percent in 2000, but Latinos took over that majority by 2016 with 52 percent and the Anglo population in the minority at 44 percent, according to statistics listed in the story written by Michele Norris, who interviewed locals last year.

She looked at how the long-time Anglo population found itself adjusting to the change, which was depicted as anxious, uncomfortable and outnumbered as the nation, too, begins to deal with a shift in status, such as the protests and social media battles that emerged over the removal of Confederate monuments.

The story was met with mixed reactions among Hazleton’s leaders and residents, some of whom preferred not to comment as they saw the city once again portrayed in a less-than-favorable light by a national media outlet.

Businesswoman Sally Yale, who spoke to Norris for some three hours at her Heights coffee shop and restaurant, said she feels hurt and disappointed in how she was portrayed in the story.

“I’m very unhappy with how she made me sound like a racist and a bigot,” Yale said. “People who know me know that’s not true. I wouldn’t be in business this long. We’re all equal. She pulled out nothing positive from what I said.”

Yale talked to Norris about participating in the annual Funfest, the two-day celebration in the city’s downtown with fair foods, rides, competitions, a variety of music and a parade, but stopped when the community began to change and become “scary.” Yale was referring to the increase in violent crime that came with the changing population, she said.

Norris wrote that Funfest had become “too uncomfortable” and “too brown” in Yale’s eyes, something that Yale said she never uttered.

“I’m so hurt by some of the stuff she said,” Yale said. “Yes, there is change. Yes, there is violence. Yes, people are afraid. There are a few bad apples.”

Yale said she always gives other people the right-of-way, does any job that needs to be done in her business if others are busy and has been welcoming a Latino clientele that is growing by word of mouth.

Greater Hazleton Chamber of Commerce President Mary Malone understands the city’s rapidly changing demographics was the reason it was chosen for this story.

“I think the demographics reflect the point (Norris) was trying to make,” she said. “At the chamber, we’ve been seeing those changes in the needs of our members.”

The chamber works with the Small Business Development Center to help establish businesses and/or help newly formed businesses, and on Friday, brought in a bilingual representative to offer counseling services, Malone said. It’s not that some prospective businesspeople don’t speak English, but it may be more comfortable for them to receive the counseling in Spanish, she said.

The chamber also is doing mixers with the Latino Business Association, and a number of Latino businesses belong to the chamber, Malone said.

As for Funfest, the event has transformed with the changes being seen in the overall community, she said. Faith-based groups have joined in, a bilingual faith service has been added and the recent themes reflect the community’s diversity, Malone said.

“Funfest is reflective of the community,” she said. “Funfest isn’t the same as Funfest five or six years ago. It has evolved and changed. In 2018, Funfest will be reflective of what’s going on 2018.”

She feels people have a perception of crime in the community, and statistics show that crime is down 40 percent thanks to recent efforts by the city police force, Malone said. While she believes in being aware and looking out for your own safety, she has seen the shift toward less crime and is in and out of her downtown office as late at 8 p.m.

People have also been enjoying evening First Friday events downtown and see firsthand the changes occurring with downtown revitalization, which in turn brings renewed interest in the downtown, she said.

Long before recent events of violence in the nation, the chamber provided security at its events, including Funfest, employing private security and working with local police departments, Malone said.

“Show me a place that’s the same as it was 15 years ago,” she said. “Communities change. The world hates change and it’s the only thing that brings progress.”

Rapid change, Malone admits, is more difficult for people to accept, but a natural evolution is happening within the community, which she says will continue to change.

Norris, in an interview with NPR about the National Geographic story, expressed optimism for the future as young people seem to embrace the change and deal with race. She said it still may not be easy, but it’s going to become easier for future generations.

Contact the writer: kmonitz@standardspeaker.com; 570-501-3589
 
This is from January 18, 2018 (a local news station); is this wrong?

HAZLETON, LUZERNE COUNTY

(WBRE/WYOU)- According to statistics from the FBI, crime is down some 40% over the past two years in Hazleton.

No doubt that many of us have heard the phrase "perception is reality." That seems to be the case in Hazleton.

Rarely does a day go by that Eyewitness News does not report a crime in the city, but the police chief points out it's a crime that was solved or stopped while it was being committed.

On Wednesday, police responded to a shooting and stabbing in center city. Two teenagers were quickly arrested in connection with the crime, but despite this:

"I feel like the community is feeling a little bit safe," said Bob Yevak, who runs a car detailing business in Hazleton. "There's a presence of cops everywhere no matter where I walk, five, six miles a day, there are cops that pass me."

And that presence is making a difference.

"By us being out there the walking patrols and saturation patrols, going to the hot spots," said Chief Jerry Speziale of the Hazleton Police Department. "It's about going to that location where crime is most likely to happen and preventing that crime from happening."

And according the to latest FBI stats, it seems to be working. Between 2015 and 2017, crime rate in Hazleton dropped by 40%. Violent crimes like murder, robbery, and assault dropped by 50%.

The mayor says the public is also making a difference.

"A lot of our success comes from the people of the city," said Mayor Jeff Cusat. "We've been getting a lot of phone calls, a lot of tips. People actually see things that bother them and call."

Speziale admits the drop in crime rate really means nothing if people do not feel safe in their neighborhoods. He insists his officers are working hard everyday to make that a reality.

Other cities in our area that also saw a drop in crime include Wilkes-Barre and Scranton.

I believe that article is part of a propaganda campaign by local officials to paint the situation more favorably, and that it's like cherry picking to say "We went from utterly terrible to just really bad". I also believe there is a large chunk missing due to under-reporting, not only by citizens, but also by law enforcement. But folks are free to believe whatever they choose, especially from a distance!
 
I believe that article is part of a propaganda campaign by local officials to paint the situation more favorably, and that it's like cherry picking to say "We went from utterly terrible to just really bad". I also believe there is a large chunk missing due to under-reporting, not only by citizens, but also by law enforcement. But folks are free to believe whatever they choose, especially from a distance!

Do you know which FBI 'statistics' they're using as the source of this story?
 
Do you know which FBI 'statistics' they're using as the source of this story?
Believe whatever you wish. Would you like to be sent listings for residential, commercial, or both, so that you could put your $ where your mouth is?
 
Believe whatever you wish. Would you like to be sent listings for residential, commercial, or both, so that you could put your $ where your mouth is?

That was a serious question.
 
That was a serious question.
Let's be real here: Nobody, especially me, is ever going to convince some folks that the influx of new residents, the majority of which are Latino/Hispanic (some legal and some illegal), has resulted in an increase in criminal and drug activity, and strained resources (police, hospitals, schools, etc.). I know that the area went years at a time without a homicide, and now it's a shock when there is a quiet week. And at least once a day some kid ODs, which was virtually unheard of, even in the 80s/90s. So something clearly changed, and I think the argument could be made that it's directly tied to the racial changeover, while some choose to believe otherwise.

I spent way too much time out of my day copying and pasting articles in hopes of providing context as to why some locals are weary, but just like every other issue in this country, nobody ever changes the other party's mind. In the future someone will be proven right or wrong. If you ever travel to Hazleton to see for yourself, then just be aware of your surroundings, especially after dark! So I will now bow out of this conversation, and wish everyone all the best!
 
With regard to Ms. Yale's comments - now she knows how minorities, such as Black, Asian, Latino, etc. feel when they are outnumbered. It's not fun, is it?

With regard to the young girl with the Confederate Flag - with freedom of speech comes responsibility of speech. When you push buttons under the guise of freedom of speech - don't be surprised to get a backlash by someone under the same guise of freedom.
PSU ro where do you call home, and how is migration affecting your daily life?

How do you know how a woman feels safe when she is outnumbered?

They are painting Hazleton, like Selma Alabama, and it isn't so, i've lived here all my life and have never heard of any hate crimes or activity. That confederate flag, you're right on that one, but it's her choice, definitely not mine.
 
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As opposed to other general characterizations of ethnic groups made by the media?

Just an observation, but if it's really different ethnicities, why do people still persist in referring to people as different races? People still use an outdated term and concept from several centuries ago. Christ, people scream we need more science and yet they perpetuate this vulgarity that people are genetically different in some substantial way. But hey, let's pretend race matters.
 
Just an observation, but if it's really different ethnicities, why do people still persist in referring to people as different races? People still use an outdated term and concept from several centuries ago. Christ, people scream we need more science and yet they perpetuate this vulgarity that people are genetically different in some substantial way. But hey, let's pretend race matters.
Easier said than done. But, point taken.
 
Just an observation, but if it's really different ethnicities, why do people still persist in referring to people as different races? People still use an outdated term and concept from several centuries ago. Christ, people scream we need more science and yet they perpetuate this vulgarity that people are genetically different in some substantial way. But hey, let's pretend race matters.
It fits some people's agendas. Bread and circuses.
 
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Just an observation, but if it's really different ethnicities, why do people still persist in referring to people as different races? People still use an outdated term and concept from several centuries ago. Christ, people scream we need more science and yet they perpetuate this vulgarity that people are genetically different in some substantial way. But hey, let's pretend race matters.

I'm wondering what a "non-Hispanic white" is. I've never been called a lot of things by Hispanic in-laws (and vice versa) but never a non-Hispanic white.
 
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In the 90's my mom and dad went on a cruise that left from a pier in Manhattan. The tour bus pulled out onto the pier and before anyone could get off, a large man walked onto the bus and declared that he was collecting a tax before anyone was allowed off the bus, $20 per head. My dad turns to my mom and quietly declares that this is a shakedown by a "crew" of local wise guys.

Funny, 100 years on it's begrudgingly tollerated if its Italian mafia but now everyone sh!ts when tough guys speak Spanish. Both are wrong and repugnant for sure, but its extra upsetting because it represents change and "new-ness". I guarantee that our grandparents felt the exact same anxiety regarding new foreign culture.

Exactly. If the extortionist looks different than you, speaks differently and acts differently then the matter of the shakedown itself takes a back seat to the issue of "race." Then you can queue Ro and his merry band of race baiters to seek confirmation bias that all white folk are inherently evil and nobody else has such issues.
 
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Just an observation, but if it's really different ethnicities, why do people still persist in referring to people as different races? People still use an outdated term and concept from several centuries ago. Christ, people scream we need more science and yet they perpetuate this vulgarity that people are genetically different in some substantial way. But hey, let's pretend race matters.

Good point. ‘Race’ isn’t really appropriate; ‘culture’ or ‘ethnicity’ makes more sense. But, it’s not as easy or charged to say ‘ethnicist’ when compared to ‘racist’.
 
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Exactly. If the extortionist looks different than you, speaks differently and acts differently then the matter of the shakedown itself takes a back seat to the issue of "race." Then you can queue Ro and his merry band of race baiters to seek confirmation bias that all white folk are inherently evil and nobody else has such issues.

I never said "all white folk are inherently evil and nobody else has such issues"

I asked why race is never mentioned when a white person commits acts of terror. I also never said that nobody else has such issues. Stop lying.

Re-read my posts for what I wrote, not want you want to see.
 
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I never said "all white folk are inherently evil and nobody else has such issues"

I asked why race is never mentioned when a white person commits acts of terror. I also never said that nobody else has such issues. Stop lying.

Re-read my posts for what I wrote, not want you want to see.

Do yourself a favor and just add them to ignore.
 
Yeah, if I do that, then I miss other good stuff that the posters bring to the board. I don't agree with Cosmos (and a few others) on this issue - but I don't feel that I should have to completely ignore them on other subjects.

Ok -
 
My great, great grandparents were Irish immigrants who settled in the Lansford/Summit Hill/Jim Thorpe/Lehighton areas. Many were coal miners and laborers who undoubtedly worked a hell of a lot harder than I have to today to make a living. So I have a great deal of respect and admiration for them. It's sad for me to see the PA Coal region as it is today. Rundown and economically depressed. I can remember seeing the transformation back in the 70s when I visited my grandparents in Lansford. I actually grew up in the Bay Area of California. Talk about a picture of contrasts! At that time, California was exploding and vibrant. Often, we would visit around the holidays. Nothing more depressing than seeing cloudy, gray skies and being surrounded by coal covered hills. Even at that time, businesses were closing their doors and all the young folks were moving away. Sorry to ramble a bit. This article really hits home for me too.
 
PSURO again i ask your hometown ? Just curious.

I ask because, i can tell the REGION folks in this discussion, their interest and sadness concerning my home town. It's always easy to opinionate at cause or find a quick remedy, or a long term fix.

I see discussions on this board about many topics, i could not recommend a good restaurant in Philly, let alone the best cheesesteak, i listen to the Philly regulars. There are great people on this board talking movies, music, and mostly PSU football, i listen to them.

This topic however, hits home literally. I grew up in a patch town,( look it up), a very poor, and hard existence. We took a lot of abuse from the city kids and were looked down upon, so guys like us, don't want to hear whining about nationalities, race, religion etc, nor do we reject anyone different from us and are the first to lend a helping hand.

The next thing you know is Nat Geo is going to ask, Pitt fans what they think of Penn State.
 
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My great, great grandparents were Irish immigrants who settled in the Lansford/Summit Hill/Jim Thorpe/Lehighton areas. Many were coal miners and laborers who undoubtedly worked a hell of a lot harder than I have to today to make a living. So I have a great deal of respect and admiration for them. It's sad for me to see the PA Coal region as it is today. Rundown and economically depressed. I can remember seeing the transformation back in the 70s when I visited my grandparents in Lansford. I actually grew up in the Bay Area of California. Talk about a picture of contrasts! At that time, California was exploding and vibrant. Often, we would visit around the holidays. Nothing more depressing than seeing cloudy, gray skies and being surrounded by coal covered hills. Even at that time, businesses were closing their doors and all the young folks were moving away. Sorry to ramble a bit. This article really hits home for me too.
The government turned their back on these legacy areas. These legacy towns helped build the country, but the country turned its back on them. Until the past 10-20 years it was hard to get governmental funding to cleanup mine scarred lands.
Politicians only care about where the votes are. The infrastructure in this country is a joke and all you get is bla, bla.
 
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The government turned their back on these legacy areas. These legacy towns helped build the country, but the country turned its back on them. Until the past 10-20 years it was hard to get governmental funding to cleanup mine scarred lands.
Politicians only care about where the votes are. The infrastructure in this country is a joke and all you get is bla, bla.
I was 7 or 8 years old when they started stripping our neighborhood , a bolder about 10 to 15 ft in diameter rolled into my friends back yard about 30 feet from her back porch. They never backfilled the area to this day.
 
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The government turned their back on these legacy areas. These legacy towns helped build the country, but the country turned its back on them. Until the past 10-20 years it was hard to get governmental funding to cleanup mine scarred lands.
Politicians only care about where the votes are. The infrastructure in this country is a joke and all you get is bla, bla.

The other issue is companies getting a pass by voters when moving their manufacturing operations overseas. To this day people will complain about everything else save the companies that screwed them out of their jobs. Hopeful new tax incentives will motivate companies to invest in and keep jobs here instead of saving a few bucks on labor.
 
The other issue is companies getting a pass by voters when moving their manufacturing operations overseas. To this day people will complain about everything else save the companies that screwed them out of their jobs. Hopeful new tax incentives will motivate companies to invest in and keep jobs here instead of saving a few bucks on labor.
I worked for a company 25 years they moved their entire operation to Canada.
The severance buyout was 2 weeks pay, 3 if you worked there over 30 yrs. The employees were told to sign a waiver against lawsuits or no severance pay.
 
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With regard to Ms. Yale's comments - now she knows how minorities, such as Black, Asian, Latino, etc. feel when they are outnumbered. It's not fun, is it?

With regard to the young girl with the Confederate Flag - with freedom of speech comes responsibility of speech. When you push buttons under the guise of freedom of speech - don't be surprised to get a backlash by someone under the same guise of freedom.

Making whites feel like a besieged minority and at the least tacitly approving and taking glee in their feelings of suffering is surely a way to avoid balkanization of society. The sheer hubris and stupidity of it is staggering. Whites are having collective guilt foisted on them for what some of their ancestors did 2+ generations ago. Surely this collective guilt assigning will also produce good social results. :rolleyes:

The young girl with the Confederate flag seems to have no problem with the social consequences of her speech (if there are any), so what exactly are you lecturing about again?

I never said "all white folk are inherently evil and nobody else has such issues"

I asked why race is never mentioned when a white person commits acts of terror. I also never said that nobody else has such issues. Stop lying.

Re-read my posts for what I wrote, not want you want to see.

No, you just heavily implied it.

Trying to assign collective racial guilt to whites has worked out so well, hasn't it? Perhaps that's why you don't see it. Although it now happens all the time among edgelords who think they're clever. More myopic stupidity.

The reason why race isn't usually mentioned when a white person commits "acts of terror" is because there is almost never a racial motivation. And the reason they aren't usually called "acts of terror" either is that there is almost never a political motivation either. The motivation in most of them is essentially nihilistic but without a connection to developed nihilist philosophy.

What you want to see is the destruction of the social fabric in the name of exerting power. Oh no I don't want that you'll say but the results speak for themselves. We've given up unifying the races, the great social cause of the middle of the 20th century, in favor of balkanization. It will not end well because balkanization never ends well but hey at least you got to snark over how some whites are discovering the negative aspects of feeling like a minority. I thought the point of this country was to not make anyone feel like that. This country spent over 100 years trying to extend the protections and dignity its culture afford to political minorities to racial minorities as well. Guess we're done with that now that whitey can get a taste of his own medicine (never mind that it isn't whitey's medicine it's whitey's great-grandpa's medicine).
 
PSURO again i ask your hometown ? Just curious.

I ask because, i can tell the REGION folks in this discussion, their interest and sadness concerning my home town. It's always easy to opinionate at cause or find a quick remedy, or a long term fix.

I see discussions on this board about many topics, i could not recommend a good restaurant in Philly, let alone the best cheesesteak, i listen to the Philly regulars. There are great people on this board talking movies, music, and mostly PSU football, i listen to them.

This topic however, hits home literally. I grew up in a patch town,( look it up), a very poor, and hard existence. We took a lot of abuse from the city kids and were looked down upon, so guys like us, don't want to hear whining about nationalities, race, religion etc, nor do we reject anyone different from us and are the first to lend a helping hand.

The next thing you know is Nat Geo is going to ask, Pitt fans what they think of Penn State.

Sorry - I am just seeing this post.

My hometown? I would have to say that would be Voorhees, NJ - which is where I stayed from 7th grade on through high school. Prior to that, I lived in Lancaster, Danville, Middletown and a few other places. I lived in these areas late 1960's/mid 1970's. I also spent my first two years of Penn State at the Schulykill Campus. So, it's not like I am completely out of the loop on this matter or not knowledgeable about the area.

I would imagine it does hit hard for you - seeing the place you grew up falling into some level of impoverishment.

But I disagree with your statement that I have bolded. I have seen, and been the target (my word, but perhaps a bit too harsh) of rejection based on color, creed, ethnic origin - and it happens worse in these communities than it does in areas that are ethnically diverse.

Has anyone answered my question?
 
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