Watch from 25 minutes to 45 minutes especially. This is what the OP is talking about , stop it already with the diversions. This should be shown in every high school in the US.
OT: Depressing news on knowledge of the Holocaust
- Thread starter LionJim
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Watch from 25 minutes to 45 minutes especially. This is what the OP is talking about , stop it already with the diversions. This should be shown in every high school in the US.
Ha! Reminds me of a statement made by a Park Ranger in California. "Humans! The worst thing that happened to this planet."
Fair enough. 1619 did happen though. We as humans will just debate what happened that year and it's significance.
https://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/first-african-slave-ship-arrives-jamestown-colony
Some parts of the past stink! Hopefully we can work toward not doing the same crap in the future. Evil, no matter the source, the time, or how many it impacted, is still evil.
Cheers!
That wasn’t when slavery started. It is just politics. Tell the 1619 project people to take it up with the British or the Spanish in the 1500’s.
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The title is misleading because the black people were slaves in Africa but indentured servants in Virginia. Slavery was not codified in Virginia until about 1660. The body of the article does mention their indentured servants status however.
The United States had nothing to do with this so called 1619 project. In 1860’s Lincoln freed the slaves and the north beat the south ending slavery in the United States. That is what needs to be taught. Anything else is rewritten history to fit a narrative.
Fair comments. Quite often the story starts before the actual events. That is why timelines are often important in history.
Does 1607 matter? Does 1775 matter? Does 1776 matter? Of course it does.
Regarding narratives, this is what is most peculiar about the Confederacy and Monuments. Without context, they are nothing but confusing commemorations of individuals that sought to dissolve the Union (and maintain/ expand slavery). Yes I realize the last statement is overly simplified.
And the Dutch and Portuguese. And African tribal leaders that sold people into slavery.
We are often confused by what we tolerate.
https://www.monticello.org/thomas-jefferson/jefferson-slavery/
Sorry, I forgot this link:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crispus_Attucks
What are you implying. That Jefferson was a bad man? The memorial to him should be changed?
Slavery was an essential part of human societies for 99.9% of human existence once you humans had evolved into community and city beings. Emphasizing it in the US when it ended more that 150 years ago and was still ongoing in some African countries in the 1960s is a serious misdirection and a diversion from most of the problems that are at issue today in the US.
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Not at all! For the record, I'd rather everything regarding Jefferson stand. What I'd also like is that advanced history courses (High school and above) acknowledge that he had contradictions. Like many men before and after he had flaws. That doesn't take away his achievements, it just shows that he was human. It also facilitates understanding regarding our Union. That it always has been and currently is a work in progress.
“Honesty is the first chapter of the book wisdom.”
― Thomas Jefferson
Thomas Jefferson Quotes
Is it? Perhaps this should be a separate thread. A common theme in this thread is human atrocities. This is one of them. It is still an open wound.
The OP is regarding the Holocaust. I think most of us can agree that it was/ is a horrible stain on the cloth of humanity. I hope that we all agree that The this event and others listed in this thread should be taught and we should do all we can to prevent a repeat.
Cheers!
The problem is that he and other founders are shown to be more than people with contradictions but as down right evil people. You don't tear down statues of people with contradictions.
They were not evil people that did some good things. And they were not good people that did some bad things. They were people that reflected the norms of humanity at that time. Slavery was a well established behavior world wide. And had been for centuries.
What should be taught is that these were great men that did great things but also followed accepted human norms at the time. That humanity has evolved since then just as it has for eons and will continue to evolve. What is accepted behavior constantly changes and will continue to do so.
A hundred years ago it was common for 20 yr old men to marry 14 yr old girls. Now we put them in jail. 20-30 years from now we may imprison people that eat meat. Will the people of that period hate all of us evil meat eaters? A hundred years from now they may outlaw eating vegetables and look at us as disgusting, evil beasts.
When looking back in history it is difficult to keep things in context. We look with our current eyes and morals instead of their environment.
We are having dialog, so I hope you don't take this the wrong way. To some, Hitler was just a flawed human. To many others he was an evil monster with no redeeming qualities! To many, it is all but impossible to look past those flaws. I can understand that in both examples. For clarity, I am not comparing Jefferson to Hitler, just stating that both men have done things that many can't get past. Short of Jesus telling me directly to forgive Hitler and look past all of his flaws, I don't see myself doing this.
The problem with Jefferson is that his contradictions have been denied, well since he did them. Will acknowledgement fix any of this? Probably not, but it is a step toward reconciliation and healing.
Another part of the peculiar institution of slavery is that there has been a constant compromise in recognizing that enslaved peoples and their descendants are fully human and deserve equal treatment under the law. Hence the wound that never healed. The shadow of this institution is far too broad to just write off. Even slave owners (that didn't fight in the Civil war) could get restitution, but not slaves?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compensated_emancipation#:~:text=Compensated%20emancipation%20was%20a%20method,to%20the%20slave's%20market%20value.
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/16/opinion/when-slaveowners-got-reparations.html
Anyway, whether it's Jefferson, or the topic of slavery, it hasn't been truly addressed. It is still a very raw subject to many. Last post regarding this issue in this thread.
In summary regarding the OP Holocaust was horrible and should never ever happen again. Reminding each other of atrocities such as this is a step toward preventing horrible events happening in the future.
"an injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere"
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Deal! Make it happen!
Unfortunately, that may not be far back enough.
https://www.transcend.org/tms/2018/10/before-columbus-how-africans-brought-civilization-to-america/
https://www.ancient.eu/Olmec_Civilization/
https://www.theperspective.org/olmecs.html
Just one of many examples of why it is difficult to draw a line in the sand and say this is where history starts.
Peace (Shalom!)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shalom#:~:text=Shalom (Hebrew: שָׁלוֹם shalom,mean both hello and goodbye.
This will be my last comment, since I realize it will lead to a major sidetrack of this thread. I don't think slavery which ended in 1865 is an open wound. It is used as an excuse for lack of family responsibility and academic achievement because it has a very strong emotional and dramatic component that can excuse negative behaviors. Discrimination is a continuing problem, but slavery itself is virtually irrelevant in today's United States.
Mass suspension of German police officers who shared pictures of Hitler and doctored images of refugees in gas chambers
www.yahoo.com
Mass suspension of German police officers who shared pictures of Hitler and doctored images of refugees in gas chambers
The officers allegedly shared extremist content in chatrooms and WhatsApp groups. Some face charges of spreading Nazi propaganda and hate speech.
Nothing like a nice Holocaust reminder to get us all happy and fired up for football season. What's your favorite song? Wreck Of the Edmund Fitzgerald?
I agree that it is a complex topic. One we can't do justice in this thread.
Cheers!
American or U.S. History?
I've never heard Canadian, Mexican, or the myriad of South American countries histories referred to as American History. Is that next?
I was joking, but I remember in my travels (haven't really traveled that much) someone bringing to my attention that all the countries listed and of course more are part of the Americas. The question was why. It was genuine and not an intended slam. After that, I usually would say USA/ US.
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