I think we (me also) should exercise a little caution in our destruction of CJF. Essentially, he is a good coach and I believe Yurcich is as well. Both are great recruiters. A head coach only goes as far as the quality and abilities of his assistants. When we lost our defensive line coach a few years back to the Giants (I believe), that was a big loss. In my mind he was equivalent to Larry Johnson. I believe Pry did not put up the right defense and when he saw that they were going to run, run, run - he should have made substantial adjustments to force them to pass and stop the run. For whatever reasons, he did not. The loss of P.J. was significant and obvious with no equal replacement. The OL coach has not done a great job and should be considered for replacement. Moreover, they need to focus on recruiting OL for the next few years and a few big DT's. I doubt we will be close with OSU next week. Too many 5 stars and an offense that is as good as I have seen. It seems they have no problem replacing Justin Fields. I see 2 more losses - at least. Personally, I know this is crazy as he was not a great recruiter - I would like to see O'Brien back in some capacity. Saban seems to appreciate what he brings. Toughness and a hate for losing. Maybe QB and TE coach???? CJF is what we have now. Let his record make the decision, not angry impassioned fans. Remember the recruits that read this board.
Now that I am somewhat calmer......
- Thread starter DrJC
- Start date
Only way BOB would ever come back here is as a head coach and that is highly highlyunlikely. With his resume he will get a college head coaching offer at some point or an NFL coordinator offer somewhere. Maybe even head coach. If you look at his overall performance in Houston 4 AFC South titles and 5 winning seasons in 7 years he was doing a pretty good job until he got too involved with personnel matters. A team with a strong GM will probably take a chance on him again.
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You disagree with it - isn't that enough evidence?
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It all boils down to Franklin understanding the value in playing Big ten football and winning in the trenches, until he does that, we will always drop a few we shouldn't to more physical teams. Say what you will about Illinois lack of talent or speed, they were very clearly the more physical team. If franklin blames a lack of explosives instead of a lack of toughness across both lines, then he just doesn't get it and never will. I hated our old 4 yard and a cloud of dust offenses, but we could sure use a physically imposing run game to balance out the improvements in passing. Say what you will about KC last year, I thought he was putting together a decent offense that could control the ball, control the clock, keep the defense rested, and was hitting on a few big plays. That is sort of the recipe(although i hated how much he ran our QB's and Clifford was never going to reach his true potential in that offense). We really need to stop recruiting to beat only OSU with their athletes, we need to be able to be just as physical as the Maryland's and Illinois of the world. If I was Franklin, i'd send more than a few guys to the portal this year and replace them with big physical linemen, on both sides of the ball, and give the jobs to those that are simply most physical.
At some point, football just isn't that complicated, the tougher more physically dominant team wins in this league. Sure, you can beat some of the slow teams with athletes in space, but you are going to have off days, you are going to have injuries, is your team tough enough to withstand that? Can they manufacture offense when the big play just isn't there?
At some point, football just isn't that complicated, the tougher more physically dominant team wins in this league. Sure, you can beat some of the slow teams with athletes in space, but you are going to have off days, you are going to have injuries, is your team tough enough to withstand that? Can they manufacture offense when the big play just isn't there?
If you give up 10 points in regulation, you should win the game. Even though Illinois ran for 350+ yards, the defense didn’t lose this game.
For whatever reason it's been hard to get great cant miss defensive tackles here. Franklin has had to bring in 3 star's that take time to develop. Throw in a couple injuries and he has to throw in DT's that aren't ready yet. . Illinois put the blueprint on how to beat Penn state out there. I really think Clifford will play much better with more practice time, if he can stay healthy.
I think everyone is getting carried away with Franklin hate. I remember years under Paterno being undermanned at DT position and getting run over.
I think it would be easier for Franklin to bring 4 and 5 star DT's at LSU or USC, just more of them to pick from in those regions.
I think everyone is getting carried away with Franklin hate. I remember years under Paterno being undermanned at DT position and getting run over.
I think it would be easier for Franklin to bring 4 and 5 star DT's at LSU or USC, just more of them to pick from in those regions.
This is spot on. I like chunk plays as well as the next guy but Franklin is over the moon with them and is too dependent on them.
The biggest problems were a failure to adjust the defense and having no QB and no run game on offense. We all knew if Clifford went down it was trouble. And Roberson obviously wasn’t ready against Iowa. And it appears he still isn’t ready.
But Franklin is pretty stubborn and doesn’t make adjustments well. Stayed too long with the RPO when he didn’t have the players for it. Falls in love with the starting QB and stays with him. Doesn’t adjust offense during games. Could have put in Roberson to run the ball and force Illinois to adjust.
One weird thing for me. The first couple of games we saw some innovative offensive schemes and plays. Really put pressure on opposing defenses. But the last two weeks has been very vanilla. And we needed something different to pressure the defense.
But Franklin is pretty stubborn and doesn’t make adjustments well. Stayed too long with the RPO when he didn’t have the players for it. Falls in love with the starting QB and stays with him. Doesn’t adjust offense during games. Could have put in Roberson to run the ball and force Illinois to adjust.
One weird thing for me. The first couple of games we saw some innovative offensive schemes and plays. Really put pressure on opposing defenses. But the last two weeks has been very vanilla. And we needed something different to pressure the defense.
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The problem with chunk plays is that they take little time off the clock, and if the offense is stopped or scores shortly after, the defense gets little rest. So the defense has to spend more time on the field getting tired out and wearing down by the end of the game.
Good post. I definitely agree about the lack of creativity on the offense. What happened to the bubble screens and the passes to the backs swinging out of the backfield?
Clifford did not look good from the start. His one good pass was the slant to the KLS. the rest were either late in coming or poor throws. He was hurting from the start.
And yea not putting Roberson out there just to see what happens or maybe give Clifford a break is was bad all the way around and not having a viable back up to Clifford when you knew if he went down the season would follow is reprehensible on both Franklin and MY's part. IMO sat's game was just as bad a look for MY as it was for Franklin.
And what is going on with Traut? is he teaching them anything? This OL is worse than last years.
The other problem is that a number of factors can limit it. Bad weather can completely neutralize it. A, cough, cough, injury to your starting QB derails it. A good defense and DC can mitigate the damage.
I like chunk plays too but you still need some type of run game to augment it and we don't even have a run game thats MAC level.
Respectfully, I’d say the ‘destruction’ of Franklin isn’t by internet posters. It’s by his own coaching decisions/ results. It’s hardly just fans here talking about it.
I’ve sort of come around recently to the opinion that we’ve seen the peak under Franklin. Generally, you’ll lose to Ohio St, likely lose another to Michigan or Michigan St, and pretty regularly drop a game to a team they should beat (Indiana, Illinois, Minnesota types).
It’s been 8 years. It is what it is. Everyone will have their own threshold on what they find acceptable.
I agree with this- and remember in the depths of 2012/13 wondering if we ever would get back to the level that we currently find ourselves: Better than most D I teams, will win almost all of the games that we should, will lose the games that we should, and season hedges on the Michigan/MSU/ Cross over team UW/Iowa/Minny etc. Losses to Temple, Indiana 2x, Central Florida, Ohio, Pitt, etc were the low points.
We missed a window with Saquon- the OSU close losses and MSU lightning game really hurt in terms of us becoming "elite" again. Overall we are in a place I wasn't sure we'd ever get back to- and I'm ok with Franklin- but most of my PSU buddies are not. He needs the level of recruit to be able to overcome some of his head scratching coaching moves in order for us to get to the next level- and so far they have not. We'll see.....
I kept seeing our LBs penetrate but ILL RBs ran past them. Almost like they were trying to pressure the QB instead of plug the gaps.
+1. The LB'rs overran a lot of stuff and took themselves right out of the play.
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As brutal as it was to watch the run defense, the defense only gave up 10 points. That should win you the game every time.
Should have been at least seven turnovers. One was stolen by the refs and there were (IIRC) three dropped INTs.Not to mention three turnovers
Bizarre? Hardly…just another day at the office for Big10 refs and PSU.
I like to look for root causes to problems. The problem at hand is that we lost the last two games by a total of 5 points. The root cause of this problem in my opinion is that Levis transferred. If Levis is still with the team we win each of the last two games easily and we are now probably sitting ranked #2 in the country and all of us are ecstatic. Franklin's failing is not doing enough to keep Levis. He should have promised him playing time, more publicity, whatever. Franklin didn't plan for a contingency if Clifford got injured and must have overestimated Roberson's worth. The root cause of all the angst we are suffering is Levis' departure.
Disagree. Levis as an upperclassman went where he could start at a high level. Besides the injuries OL and RB woes the big problem is striking out with Roberson Johnson and Bowins If one of those younger guys pan out we aren’t in this situation at QB. Poor evaluation of those guys really hurt.
Make sure we provide the link to On3 for the new recruits, so they can continue with the sage advice of the board.
1. There needs to be a change in the way we recruit OL. We seem to recruit a ton of "size potential" guys and hope they can slide around. We never seem to recruit a true road grader for the inside. I thought Caden Wallace was going to be one of those but alas we bumped him outside. My next hope for this is Tengwell.
2. When is everyone's golden boy Seider going to come in to question? We love to bash Traut but our backs are slow, slow, and slow.....none of them can hit a hole like Saquon and Sanders. But for some reason Seider gets a pass....why? Is recruiting John Dunmore that big of a deal? Did his pull of TJ Jones make a real difference? What about the Culpepper kid, certainly he must have been a first rounder with the way everyone blows Seider. Why is it so important to get southern RB's? Saquon and Sanders must have been from Southern Pittsburgh and Southern Philly.
3. MY looks like he is trying to shove a round peg in to a square hole with his TE usage. Why is it so important to be TEU? Almost like Donavan trying to make Hack a DT QB. Are we that afraid to lose Jerry Cross?
4. The entire staff needs called under the rug for the back up QB debacle. And don't give me the Levis leaving thing. If your #2 is a non though to play at best then your qb room is horrible. No way Clifford should have been playing.
5. JF prides himself on competition. I am calling BS on that. If the 5 guys you put out front are the toughest 5 guys in your OL Room then we are in BIG TIME trouble. Where is Jimmy Christ? Where is Fashanu? Where are all these guys that are supposed to be so tough?
6. The new OT rule sucks if you have athletes. It should be an alternate possession from the 10 or at least the 7.
7. Speaking of overtime.....the inability to even get Dotson the ball is a crime and someone should be fired just for that. Run a reverse, run a jet sweep, run him in the wildcat, let him throw the ball instead of Warren.
8. Finally, add Brisker to the list of what could have been INT's in the JF History. All Americans come down with that pick.
2. When is everyone's golden boy Seider going to come in to question? We love to bash Traut but our backs are slow, slow, and slow.....none of them can hit a hole like Saquon and Sanders. But for some reason Seider gets a pass....why? Is recruiting John Dunmore that big of a deal? Did his pull of TJ Jones make a real difference? What about the Culpepper kid, certainly he must have been a first rounder with the way everyone blows Seider. Why is it so important to get southern RB's? Saquon and Sanders must have been from Southern Pittsburgh and Southern Philly.
3. MY looks like he is trying to shove a round peg in to a square hole with his TE usage. Why is it so important to be TEU? Almost like Donavan trying to make Hack a DT QB. Are we that afraid to lose Jerry Cross?
4. The entire staff needs called under the rug for the back up QB debacle. And don't give me the Levis leaving thing. If your #2 is a non though to play at best then your qb room is horrible. No way Clifford should have been playing.
5. JF prides himself on competition. I am calling BS on that. If the 5 guys you put out front are the toughest 5 guys in your OL Room then we are in BIG TIME trouble. Where is Jimmy Christ? Where is Fashanu? Where are all these guys that are supposed to be so tough?
6. The new OT rule sucks if you have athletes. It should be an alternate possession from the 10 or at least the 7.
7. Speaking of overtime.....the inability to even get Dotson the ball is a crime and someone should be fired just for that. Run a reverse, run a jet sweep, run him in the wildcat, let him throw the ball instead of Warren.
8. Finally, add Brisker to the list of what could have been INT's in the JF History. All Americans come down with that pick.
I'm certainly not blaming Levis for entering the portal and going to where he could start. I'm just pointing out that if Levis would have stayed we would easily have won the last two games. In the past we have had depth at QB during many years. Of course, there was no portal. Maybe the root cause of our two losses is the existence of the portal. Without the portal we probably still have Levis and we easily win the last two games.
Texas A & M seemed to have righted the ship after their QB went down.
Seriously, Roberson couldn't start at Lock Haven. And the sad this is.....can you imagine how bad CV is?
I BELIEVE ANOTHER BIG LOSS WAS JOURNEY BROWN. HE WAS. A HOMERUN HITTER FOR US AND HAS NOT BEEN REPLACED.
There is a bit of frustration stemming from the basic fact that pure luck prevented Penn State from being 7-0 and ranked no lower than 3rd in the country.
The Iowa game was won, and PSU was pounding them solidly. Then Clifford went down and the staff needs to own the fact that there was no other QB or game plan to pick it up from there. Other teams have multiple QBs ready to play on game day. PSU did not.
The Illinois game, despite Penn State looking horrible and flat, could have been won on multiple occasions. The fumble recovery in the end zone, dropped TE passes, and even Brisker's game winning interception in OT, and number of plays that could have won the game. Even a decent 2nd string QB and that game was won.
The Iowa game was won, and PSU was pounding them solidly. Then Clifford went down and the staff needs to own the fact that there was no other QB or game plan to pick it up from there. Other teams have multiple QBs ready to play on game day. PSU did not.
The Illinois game, despite Penn State looking horrible and flat, could have been won on multiple occasions. The fumble recovery in the end zone, dropped TE passes, and even Brisker's game winning interception in OT, and number of plays that could have won the game. Even a decent 2nd string QB and that game was won.
You’re right that the Iowa game was a bad break. Shit happens but everything was still on the table for Penn State.
The Illinois game falls squarely on Yurcich and Franklin. I can’t believe a healthy Roberson would have been worse than an injured Clifford, and if so that’s on the staff. Even with Clifford the staff failed to call a game that played to his abilities. The OL provided decent protection but where were the slants and medium range crossing patterns - they would have chewed up Illinois but instead we have to hand it off off tackle endlessly for two yards per carry.
If you have noticed, it seems to me that the last few recruiting classes have not secured top notch OL and DL prospects. And if they have, where are they. Sean Spencer was a huge loss. We need coaches who coach toughness and discipline on the OL and DL if we are to be top notch in the Big Ten. I think if Franklin has a weakness, it is his skilled position coaches.
James Franklin Will Make $6 Million This Year. Time to Earn it
Penn State was ranked No. 4 with a nine-game win streak in early October. Now the season sits on the edge of unraveling.
www.si.com
What exactly is Big Ten football? The Iowa O, UW? Those offenses get you no where outside the big, look at conference record outside Big. I do not understand the three yards and a cloud of dust obsession of some fans. The OL underJF has been underwhelming, but i am not ready to scrap everything yet.
I see your point, I am not suggesting we revert back to ground and pound, I do think old Big10/Midwestern(whatever you want to call it) big physical offensive and defensive lines would be helpful here. Not necessarily changing your offense, but the mere ability to run the ball and stop the run when you have to. It is literally what separates elite teams from the pretends. The Alabama's and OSU's of the world can ground and pound when they need to, but certainly have spread offenses with athletes abound. If we had a physically dominant O-line, we simply do not lose to Illinois.
The OL pass blocks well and not so much run blocking. Further, the RB appear to be tentative Unless there is a 5 years hole, they go laterally,
