new flo SR big board.....recruiting going down?
- Thread starter dunkej01
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That said.....Wittlake went up because he defeated Brooks....twice....and Brooks became a World Champion. No argument there.
Anyone who thinks that Gable will lose to anyone if he redshirts and avoids Snyder....and Coon.... is most likely invoking far more wishful thinking than rational thought.
Snyder and Coon are gone after this year. A simple high school senior year allows Stevenson to avoid both Snyder and Coon.
As good as Gable Stevenson is, people pop up. IMAR meet Mr. Joseph. Logie Bear needed a very favorable non-call against Oliver. Ed Banach and Schultz.
As far as Flo dropping certain rankings on PSU recruits. Who cares. They are the same kids we were super excited about a couple months ago. Is there any of those kids anybody on this board isn't still super excited about?
David, Quentin, Eddie, Frankie, Nico - they all came, achieved and left.
Now Zain, Jason, Cenzo. Markie, Bo and Nick N have come, they have achieved and they will depart soon enough.
Burge, Lee 1 & 2, RBY, Gavin, Mike, Seth are here or will be soon. Standing your ground against the PSU train is going to be a mammoth assignment.
David, Quentin, Eddie, Frankie, Nico - they all came, achieved and left.
Now Zain, Jason, Cenzo. Markie, Bo and Nick N have come, they have achieved and they will depart soon enough.
Burge, Lee 1 & 2, RBY, Gavin, Mike, Seth are here or will be soon. Standing your ground against the PSU train is going to be a mammoth assignment.
I still don't understand how they can move guys around that much on the Sr Board, and P4P stays unchanged.
And, just because I'm paranoid, doesn't mean they're not following me.impossible to keep your head up with all the foil you got on it
High School wrestling is a much larger universe than NCAA D1 College Wrestling, and imo infinitely more unpossible (, for those that like that word) to rank. Getting the rankings "in the ballpark" is really the best that can be done. I'll enjoy Flo's take on FRL, only because it's wrestling talk, but that's it. With all the variables, the new rankings are no biggie.
, for those that like that word) to rank. Getting the rankings "in the ballpark" is really the best that can be done. I'll enjoy Flo's take on FRL, only because it's wrestling talk, but that's it. With all the variables, the new rankings are no biggie.Anyone that thinks a high school senior will not lose a match in college is not thinking rationally. JMHO.
I'm with NoVa on this early prognostication. One thought I have is that it is much tougher in the upper weights for a freshman to win a national championship.
I agree with all your comments, but his resume is superior to Coon's coming out of high school and it isn't even close. I'm excited to see what all these young studs accomplish.
Eh. I probably think more rationally than anyone on these boards as I am not a fan of any specific team-just a fan of certain individuals.
Sounds insane to say I think a guy will run the table, but he's done nothing to make me think otherwise. When's the last time he lost? 3 years ago in a Greco match maybe? He's already beating the best 20 year old men in the world. Another year of maturing and improving I just don't see anyone in college beating him. However, mat wrestling might be a way to neutralize him.
The last unbeatable HS wrestler lost his last HS match.
Yes, but so far he is undefeated in college.
Just listened to FRL today. Nomad and Willie did a horrible job defending these rankings. CP made them look like amateurs.
Totally dismissed RBY and Teasdale. Basically no explanation. All of a sudden S Nevills went from 2 HwT to 6 HWT without no data to drop.
Comical group
It doesn’t matter in the scheme of things just hilarious how these two think. Nomad called the rankings “alchemy”. Lol.
FRL is a comedy show and Pyles only one that puts some rationale into his thoughts
Totally dismissed RBY and Teasdale. Basically no explanation. All of a sudden S Nevills went from 2 HwT to 6 HWT without no data to drop.
Comical group
It doesn’t matter in the scheme of things just hilarious how these two think. Nomad called the rankings “alchemy”. Lol.
FRL is a comedy show and Pyles only one that puts some rationale into his thoughts
Willie did finally say "RBY is too low" Haha. But in the end, it's just rankings, doesn't really matter, just a number. Flo's rankings, Intermat's rankings, whatever. Doesn't affect my excitement about this incoming class. Looking forward to attending WNO next week to see a few of them in action.
I think FLO = TMZ
Seems like they try really hard to generate interest and discussion, which can be good . . . until they get bent out of shape when someone on a message board disagrees with something they've said or done.
hold on, gotta go find me some foil so i can say sumtin' real crazy!
Rankings always get settled on the mat. I like our chances ...
hard to have an online media presence without clicks. drive clicks drive profits....crazy talk drives clicks......well you all get the rest
maybe Im wrong?
No, I think you're right (mostly). But you might catch some heat for using the c-word.
I guess I should clarify. I was talking about an NCAA championship. I get it. Mark Hall lost 3 times but clearly got better as the year progressed. Gable is extremely quick...great footwork ....great work ethic. He has trained with the best. After a redshirt year....getting stronger and with more training...I would give him high odds of being the NCAA champ first year if he is injury free. I certainly wouldn't bet against him. He is extremely good now. In 2 1/2 years I see him being a very heavy favorite.
excellent job at completely misrepresenting what was said to fit your narrative.
i'd recap what was actually said, but i don't really care. when people consistently cite 'it must be for clicks' because something doesn't reinforce your biased expectations...well...think what u want.
Isn't Flo the same ranking organization that still had Oklahoma State ranked ahead of Penn State on March 19, 2017?
I may have stretched the truth, but immediately prior to the PSU @ OSU coaches match with 7 Penn State wrestlers ranked ahead of their Okie State counterparts Flo still had Okie State ranked number 1.
Willie seems to believe there is a whole lot of in-depth intellectual effort put into their rankings and possibly there is more there than meets the naked eye.
However, they (rankings) are subjective, they (rankings) are purely for entertainment (including clicks) and they do create conversation.
All in all, those Flo rankings seem to be doing their job.
Willie seems to believe there is a whole lot of in-depth intellectual effort put into their rankings and possibly there is more there than meets the naked eye.
However, they (rankings) are subjective, they (rankings) are purely for entertainment (including clicks) and they do create conversation.
All in all, those Flo rankings seem to be doing their job.
I have to give them credit, the Putin bit was lol funny. Probably my favorite since the cat-word episode.
Willie - for those of us who didn't listen to the episode, why did Seth Nevills slip so far? Thanks.
Willie - I'm legitimately curious why the Sr Big Board rankings changed, but the weight by weight and pound for pound all stayed the same. Thanks!
Willie..not for nothing. I am not here to kiss your ass, troll you, etc. Most people really can care less about rankings but they are fun to discuss. In other words..it all gets settled on the mat eventually but the rankings are fun to talk about.
I never said ONE time you were looking for "clicks." I can care less why you did what you did to the rankings. Personally, I think you and Nomad just have to much time on your hands and just switch things to switch things. It's as if you are staring at a tea kettle waiting for it to boil. It doesn't boil quick enough for you so you try to shake it even though it doesn't do anything to help the situation. The people watching you do this laugh at your attempt.
I liked your little snide remark on your show.."some people saying only reason RBY dropped is because of his loss to Ramos.:" Instead of trying to take shots at people on message boards..how bout trying to come up with a rationale decision of why you do what you do. RBY's only loss in last year I can think of is Ramos, so if that wasn't the reason what was it?
No "biased" expectations here. I am very happy with our recruiting class as it is the best ever. What narative am I drawing? You did the rankings, NOT me. I didn't go and completely overhaul the rankings that have been kind of the same for the past year without explanation..YOU did.
The one thing CP always does, is explain his decisions, very clear and concise and agree or disagree, you appreciate the effort. Bo Jordan didn't wrestle half the year last year. He kept him #1. You would have dropped him to 13..I didn't agree with #1, but I certainly wouldn't drop him to 13. Anyone with eyes can see his talent.
If I did rankings and moved someone from 2 to 13 or 3 to 9. I would at least give a valid explanation of "why." Saying, "well we can change our minds" is a total cop out. It's not "alchemy" as Nomad calls it. It's common sense.
Have a great day
Sorry pish, don't you find your comments antagonizing? "horrible job", "amateurs", "comical group", "hilarious how these two think"...
The fact that they discussed it on their show is worth something. They didn't shy away from the discussion, right or wrong on the rankings...while, at least to me, your comments were judgmental and personal, even attacking.
I enjoyed the show, don't agree always, but enjoy the discussion. Heck, 2 fans at a water cooler normally can't agree, but it's awesome when they can have a candid discussion.
I only type what I say to someone in person. I do think it was a horrible job. And if I was with Willie and Nomad, I would be breaking their chops real good if we were at a water cooler.
Here's the thing..I hope YOU and people reading my posts that pertain to this topic realize I truly LOVE Flo. I enjoy Willie, Nomad, Pyles, etc. So if I am coming across as attacking..I apologize as that's not my intent.
My intent is to call out something that makes no sense. Trust me, I've tweeted at Willie, Plyes, Bader when they do great jobs as well.
I may have you wrong Roar..but you seem the type that if someone says or does something you think is ridiculous, you stay quiet (the old if you have nothing nice to say mantra). That's not me. Not in real life, nor a message board.
In THIS instance..they did shy away from the "reasoning" Think of it this way Roar..if you had a kid that hasn't lost a match in 4 years, your kid is ranked 10th in the country P4P. All of a sudden, he's ranked 26th. Your kid is upset thinking what went wrong. What do you tell him? Sure you can say rankings don't matter, you'll settle it on the mat. But the truth is, you know in your mind something's not right. I do not shy away from confonting people when they are wrong and I certainly tell people when they do a great job. To ONLY say "great" job but not call out "bad job" is not genuine IMO
I stated early in the thread, I really didn't see any issue with most of it except the big drop for RBY - which Willie pretty much admitted was a mistake on FRL. Gavin hasn't wrestled in a while and there were some rumors that he had trouble with the weight cut - going down to 9 was fair. Seth also hasn't wrestled in a while and there are a ton of good kids through 30, so dropping was expected. Although Cassiopi leapfrogging him on the basis of a couple of freestyle comps where he didn't face any top, top kids is in direct contradiction to them stating that they are not dropping Sasso because he's really good at folk and taking his freestyle losses with a grain of salt. Not a huge deal, just would have swapped them.
On the plus side for PSU, Wittlake and Joe Lee might be higher than warranted at this time, so all in all its pretty much a wash for PSU - I don't think that this has anything to do with "clicks" as some have suggested.
Always enjoy the discussion, great for the offseason, so a little shuffling is a good thing. As stated on FRL there are a lot of very good kids in this class with little separation. Cael again being ahead of the curve getting volume in this class while going short in 2017 (although not on quality) and probably 2019 again and putting a lot of eggs in the basket in 2018.
On the plus side for PSU, Wittlake and Joe Lee might be higher than warranted at this time, so all in all its pretty much a wash for PSU - I don't think that this has anything to do with "clicks" as some have suggested.
Always enjoy the discussion, great for the offseason, so a little shuffling is a good thing. As stated on FRL there are a lot of very good kids in this class with little separation. Cael again being ahead of the curve getting volume in this class while going short in 2017 (although not on quality) and probably 2019 again and putting a lot of eggs in the basket in 2018.
I think this is spot on. With all the tape, tournaments, FS events, camps, etc out there staffs in general and ours in particular are identifying guys earlier and earlier as those people to recruit well in advance of their senior year. Then knowing our 9.9 can plan AS BEST THEY CAN for each cycle and adjust based on the realities of the moment.
the 2018 class is very special as a whole. they went all in on it and the stars aligned.
2019 maybe not so much comparatively and because of the labor of 2018, 2019 and 2020 we dont need to focus hard but get the guys we want that fit the PSU system.
my opinion this is another aspect of having the best back office in the biz and the best 2 & 2a guys on staff around.
I admitted on the show that RBY was perhaps too low. after WNO and S32, we'll reevaluate for the next Big Board update.
the Big Boards are a funny thing - they are subjective in a way that is entirely removed from WT Class Rankings and/or P4P - which attempts to be completely fair (however difficult that may be, and completely based on W's and L's).
Big Boards are based, and I've always said this openly and honestly, on more subjective expectations - style, intangibles, skill set, grades, composition of weight class, etc, etc.
Thus, if the movement of, say, Nevills, seems whimsical, it's because of a reevaluation - one in which I (and Nomad) see him as a middle of the pack guy with Gable, Parris, Schultz, Cassioppi, Kerkvliet, Amos, Singletary, Hilger....that's a lot of talent at 1 weight.
Maybe it's a knee jerk reaction to what we deemed as a less than dominant performance at flonationals. And maybe Nevills comes out as the best of the bunch. But the rationale is that the weight is saturated and there isn't a great deal of differentiation.
the Big Boards are a funny thing - they are subjective in a way that is entirely removed from WT Class Rankings and/or P4P - which attempts to be completely fair (however difficult that may be, and completely based on W's and L's).
Big Boards are based, and I've always said this openly and honestly, on more subjective expectations - style, intangibles, skill set, grades, composition of weight class, etc, etc.
Thus, if the movement of, say, Nevills, seems whimsical, it's because of a reevaluation - one in which I (and Nomad) see him as a middle of the pack guy with Gable, Parris, Schultz, Cassioppi, Kerkvliet, Amos, Singletary, Hilger....that's a lot of talent at 1 weight.
Maybe it's a knee jerk reaction to what we deemed as a less than dominant performance at flonationals. And maybe Nevills comes out as the best of the bunch. But the rationale is that the weight is saturated and there isn't a great deal of differentiation.
See..now I said "Comical" you said "funny thing" and I got in trouble with Roar for attacking! I kid I kid..
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