New ad from Gillette:

[anon_1eeb2b426hv3y]

And they're fighting in Iwo Jima because other asshole men started the war.

I never said women are more honest or virtuous. I said men are more violent. FACT It's not just a small list of serial killers. It's all violent crime. Men are the undisputed champs of violent crime.

You’re right. Men are more violent. No question.

But think about bullying. Girls bully other girls horribly. It’s just oftentimes a different kind of bullying, typically more emotionally damaging than physically threatening. But that’s not really relevant except to say all have faults.
My problem with Gillette’s ad has nothing to the principles aspoused for how men should act. I agree with every one of them. And in truth, I’m a feminist (which is part of what makes this such a bizarre discussion.). But the portrayal of most men in the ad, and the suggestion that the actions and attitudes portrayed as common to men (especially adult men), is simply unfair. Most men aren’t like the ones they’re seeking to change. They refer to “some” as acting appropriately, but that’s not enough. They should give far more than some the credit they deserve. It still isn’t enough. More change must happen. But the problem isn’t the actions and perspectives of most men.

 

[green2623]

This thread is starting to sound like the Denny Crain Club.

 

[psuro]

Being asked to do the right thing is somehow insulting?

I wish I could say some of the reactions here surprise me, but they really don't.

I haven't lost respect for some of you, because I never had any.

Or us with you. So we are all good.

 

[anon_1eeb2b426hv3y]

Being asked to do the right thing is somehow insulting?

I wish I could say some of the reactions here surprise me, but they really don't.

I haven't lost respect for some of you, because I never had any.

no. Being asked to do the right thing isn’t insulting. What’s insulting is suggesting that only SOME MEN are doing the right thing. Maybe it’s true and I’ve just done one heck of a job eliminating from my daily life people who behave as most men are projected to by the ad. But I hate the same behaviors and attitudes the ad contests. And I think most adult men feel the same. So why the need to paint with such a broad stained brush?

 

[pandaczar12]

You’re right. Men are more violent. No question.

But think about bullying. Girls bully other girls horribly. It’s just oftentimes a different kind of bullying, typically more emotionally damaging than physically threatening. But that’s not really relevant except to say all have faults.
My problem with Gillette’s ad has nothing to the principles aspoused for how men should act. I agree with every one of them. And in truth, I’m a feminist (which is part of what makes this such a bizarre discussion.). But the portrayal of most men in the ad, and the suggestion that the actions and attitudes portrayed as common to men (especially adult men), is simply unfair. Most men aren’t like the ones they’re seeking to change. They refer to “some” as acting appropriately, but that’s not enough. They should give far more than some the credit they deserve. It still isn’t enough. More change must happen. But the problem isn’t the actions and perspectives of most men.

I think it really depends on the definition of the word "some".

I didn't really take offense to the video, but then again, I thought it was an advertisement for a new season of the Jersey Shore.

 

[demlion]

You’re right. Men are more violent. No question.

But think about bullying. Girls bully other girls horribly. It’s just oftentimes a different kind of bullying, typically more emotionally damaging than physically threatening. But that’s not really relevant except to say all have faults.
My problem with Gillette’s ad has nothing to the principles aspoused for how men should act. I agree with every one of them. And in truth, I’m a feminist (which is part of what makes this such a bizarre discussion.). But the portrayal of most men in the ad, and the suggestion that the actions and attitudes portrayed as common to men (especially adult men), is simply unfair. Most men aren’t like the ones they’re seeking to change. They refer to “some” as acting appropriately, but that’s not enough. They should give far more than some the credit they deserve. It still isn’t enough. More change must happen. But the problem isn’t the actions and perspectives of most men.

Yes, girls bully other girls. There's other bad behavior, too, but it is tiresome to suggest we have to address ALL OF IT, by all parties, in a 1 or 2 minute film, or that film is invalid somehow.

You seem to see this as a deal where there are good men and bad men. I think the admakers want you to see there is a third group--good men who assert themselves in what is becoming known as "the bystander moment."

If they did that poorly, have at em. But keep in mind: they are the only people talking about it in a big, public way.

The "some" men they refer to are not "some" who don't abuse women or shoot up country music shows. Everyone knows that is the vast majority of men.

"Some" is a reference to men who understand that they have to speak up, even among strangers, and that setting a good example is not going to be enough. It's a start, but it is gonna take more.

Like I said, I'm not a marketer. Just glad to see someone air this issue. Men who are inclined to jump in this issue are not likely to be offended by the ad.

 

[JayWye]

Stupid analogy... appears that you are implying the old “they were asking for it...” bullshit

You miss the point...the question is whether or not acting/dressing provocatively is "toxic" in the male-female arena. Bottom line...why deliberately invite advances if you don't want them??

 

[ivan brunetti]

Who commenting on this site is protesting?

About a third of the posters.

 

[Obliviax]

You miss the point...the question is whether or not acting/dressing provocatively is "toxic" in the male-female arena. Bottom line...why deliberately invite advances if you don't want them??

Agree and disagree. Sometimes, one person being wrong doesn't mean the other is right. If you use your sexuality as a weapon, male or female, the rules should equally apply. Of course if you dress provocatively at work, some person is going to hit on you.

Reminds me of a friend of mine that got mugged in central park at 3am in the 90's. He told me about his ordeal and, of course, your first thought is "i hope they catch that MFer". Your second thought is "WTF were you doing in central park at 3am (and thinking you were safe)?"

 

[demlion]

You miss the point...the question is whether or not acting/dressing provocatively is "toxic" in the male-female arena. Bottom line...why deliberately invite advances if you don't want them??

So your understanding is that women who dress "provocatively" WANT men to shout at them from cars, and WANT men to grope them and treat them like their property.

So, if you live in a nice house with a shiny car out front, you will accept your share of the blame when you go on vacation and thieves loot your stuff?

 

[fizzyskittles]

So your understanding is that women who dress "provocatively" WANT men to shout at them from cars, and WANT men to grope them and treat them like their property.

So, if you live in a nice house with a shiny car out front, you will accept your share of the blame when you go on vacation and thieves loot your stuff?

It’s not even close and your example is a very good effort.
The expensive home often has a security system , cameras, possibly safes. They might have told local LE to check on the house or hired a house sitter or actually have staff.
They’ve taken steps to insure their security . How you dress sends a message . That message will be received by everyone that sees you but here’s the issue. You think they’re receiving the same thing.
That’s not always the case. No one is
asking for anything but some don’t do a hood job of maximizing their personal security . Nothing more , nothing less.

 

[demlion]

It’s not even close and your example is a very good effort.
The expensive home often has a security system , cameras, possibly safes. They might have told local LE to check on the house or hired a house sitter or actually have staff.
They’ve taken steps to insure their security . How you dress sends a message . That message will be received by everyone that sees you but here’s the issue. You think they’re receiving the same thing.
That’s not always the case. No one is
asking for anything but some don’t do a hood job of maximizing their personal security . Nothing more , nothing less.

He said "invite advances." Supose he has none of that security stuff, or they disable it before they steal his stuff.

What percentage of this is his fault? Should he have to reimburse the police department for investigating the theft he invited?

 

[KnightSlayer]

You miss the point...the question is whether or not acting/dressing provocatively is "toxic" in the male-female arena. Bottom line...why deliberately invite advances if you don't want them??

Good grief.

 

[fizzyskittles]

He said "invite advances." Supose he has none of that security stuff, or they disable it before they steal his stuff.

What percentage of this is his fault? Should he have to reimburse the police department for investigating the theft he invited?

He’s choosing his words poorly. You are inviting nothing . However you are always sending a message make or female .
Men are at more risk for violent crime than women . And men get mugged when they’re drunk for example.
Very drunk sends a message of easy target. Make or female. You dress a certain way ( fancy suit and watch is provocative in its own way, just like women and their outfits) you will be noticed more by more people.

 

[fizzyskittles]

He said "invite advances." Supose he has none of that security stuff, or they disable it before they steal his stuff.

What percentage of this is his fault? Should he have to reimburse the police department for investigating the theft he invited?

If a person has a fancy house with obvious wealth and zero security , they’re a fool.
Both sexes an be fools. People with little to no money or fortunes can be fools.
Thanks for proving my point.

 

[demlion]

If a person has a fancy house with obvious wealth and zero security , they’re a fool.
Both sexes an be fools. People with little to no money or fortunes can be fools.
Thanks for proving my point.

But no sane person blames the victim. Thanks for proving mine.

 

[demlion]

If a person has a fancy house with obvious wealth and zero security , they’re a fool.
Both sexes an be fools. People with little to no money or fortunes can be fools.
Thanks for proving my point.

Just let me know how long the homeowner must go to jail for inviting a b and e.

 

[walleye38]

'bout that ol' toxic masculinity:

View embedded media

Bring out the dresses and purses, next we'll all start crying over the chick flicks. Such Snowflakes this generation is.

 

[demlion]

Bring out the dresses and purses, next we'll all start crying over the chick flicks. Such Snowflakes this generation is.

Get enough snowflakes and what you have is an avalanche. I am 60. That's no place for old men.

 

[RU31trap]

P&G anticipating 6.52% drop in stock prices in 2019.

 

[demlion]

P&G anticipating 6.52% drop in stock prices in 2019.

Oooohh, scary.

 

[fizzyskittles]

Just let me know how long the homeowner must go to jail for inviting a b and e.

That’s your argument? And you’re an Atty? Seriously ? It’s about reducing risk. No one ever said it’s wrong to be stupid, but it ain’t handy.
I look both ways before crossing the steeets even though I have the right of way . I’d rather be safe than right and injured or dead.
Personal safety is the individual’s responsibility. I’m taking about lowering that risk by being smart, not trusting your safety to the good will of strangers . Some who are bad people.
Lecturing people with a razor add will do zero to help people be safer. Teaching them will, but we always run into folk like you who cry “blaming the victim!”.

 

[LaJolla Lion]

Even better, straight from Dorco. It's where these razor companies get their blades from.

I've used them for years. Order twice a year...done.

 

[fizzyskittles]

From the author of In The NameOf Self Defense and What You Don’t Know Can Kill You, Marc Macyoung:

I just saw the Gillette ad that is causing such an uproar. My observation
***
Speaking as a former violence professional, instructor and court recognized expert on violence I have only one question regarding the 'message' inherent in that ad...

Given the current socialization, state of our legal and educational systems, are you ****ing nuts?

Also, given the level of incompetence and lack of understanding about violence, this whole "All you have to do to intervene and stop this is step in and/or stand up" is the FASTEST way I know to
a - get your ass kicked
b - get arrested and prosecute/ penalized.

But you can feel all warm and fuzzy about it happening to you because you helped stop toxic masculinity.

News flash folks. Most people realize this and that's why they don't act. So encouraging an untrained/inexperienced individuals to do it is sending his/her ass out to be cannon fodder.

Or, if you're answer to that is "Well it can be done in groups," then – out at the sharp end – you're encouraging wolf packing. Because you know, shit never goes wrong with a pissed off mob acting against 'an outsider.'

 

[Pardlion]

We men are going to have an effect on the boys who will grow into violent abusers, or no one is. Women, cops, judges, jails cannot fix it, or it would be fixed. Men will teach boys respect for women and others, or they wont learn. Plain as day.

Any man who watches that ad comes away with the idea that the message is all men are bad, needs to watch again.

Any man who is threatened or insulted by that ad certainly marks himself as one we cant count on.

To me it is remarkable that anyone would see that as an attempt to demean men .

Is there even a male in your household?

 

[GreggK]

Bring out the dresses and purses, next we'll all start crying over the chick flicks. Such Snowflakes this generation is.

I know, you are so right!!! I can't believe grown men are so offended by everything. It's just a commercial people grow up!

 

[demlion]

Is there even a male in your household?

Just me, but then it only takes one if he is made of the right stuff.

 

[demlion]

From the author of In The NameOf Self Defense and What You Don’t Know Can Kill You, Marc Macyoung:

I just saw the Gillette ad that is causing such an uproar. My observation
***
Speaking as a former violence professional, instructor and court recognized expert on violence I have only one question regarding the 'message' inherent in that ad...

Given the current socialization, state of our legal and educational systems, are you ****ing nuts?

Also, given the level of incompetence and lack of understanding about violence, this whole "All you have to do to intervene and stop this is step in and/or stand up" is the FASTEST way I know to
a - get your ass kicked
b - get arrested and prosecute/ penalized.

But you can feel all warm and fuzzy about it happening to you because you helped stop toxic masculinity.

News flash folks. Most people realize this and that's why they don't act. So encouraging an untrained/inexperienced individuals to do it is sending his/her ass out to be cannon fodder.

Or, if you're answer to that is "Well it can be done in groups," then – out at the sharp end – you're encouraging wolf packing. Because you know, shit never goes wrong with a pissed off mob acting against 'an outsider.'

You do not understand how it works, and given what a tool you are it is not worth pressing.

A "court recognized expert in violence". In my jurisdiction that means a person who has more knowledge about the topic than a typical juror. WooHoo!

 

[Overthereguy]

Yes, girls bully other girls. There's other bad behavior, too, but it is tiresome to suggest we have to address ALL OF IT, by all parties, in a 1 or 2 minute film, or that film is invalid somehow.

You seem to see this as a deal where there are good men and bad men. I think the admakers want you to see there is a third group--good men who assert themselves in what is becoming known as "the bystander moment."

If they did that poorly, have at em. But keep in mind: they are the only people talking about it in a big, public way.

The "some" men they refer to are not "some" who don't abuse women or shoot up country music shows. Everyone knows that is the vast majority of men.

"Some" is a reference to men who understand that they have to speak up, even among strangers, and that setting a good example is not going to be enough. It's a start, but it is gonna take more.

Like I said, I'm not a marketer. Just glad to see someone air this issue. Men who are inclined to jump in this issue are not likely to be offended by the ad.

There already is a third group of men who assert themselves when something is wrong. In fact, the majority of men probably fall into this category. Those men don't need lectured by extreme feminists and the video isn't going to stop bad men from doing bad things. So, it has no purpose. Similar to how gun laws don't stop criminals from committing crimes with guns.

The second sentence in bold isn't true at all. Every man I've heard talk about this ad in person considers it total BS and everyone of those men would step in and stop bad behavior if they see it. Full disclosure, all of the men around me are either military or ex-military and most of them have an extreme level of masculinity. In fact, men who aren't inclined to see a problem with this video are likely to not step in if they see one of these situations - it's commonly referred to as having no backbone. Their wife's boyfriend might step in for them though.

 

[Mace54]

I have stopped buying Nike products with their overhyped glorification of Kapernick. I am throwing out all of my Gillette products and will go full on with Schick or I'll try that Dollar Shave Club deal. These pretentious, over-produced fluff pieces are an assault on the regular man. Count how many black men are in that Gillette piece of garbage. As a white male, I found it offensive, but who's going to listen to a middle-aged white dude....I'm what their protesting against. Well, they won't get any of my hard-earned money anymore.

 

[Pardlion]

Just me, but then it only takes one if he is made of the right stuff.

So, I guess you're trying to tell everyone how men should act in order to compensate.

 

[JayWye]

So your understanding is that women who dress "provocatively" WANT men to shout at them from cars, and WANT men to grope them and treat them like their property.

So, if you live in a nice house with a shiny car out front, you will accept your share of the blame when you go on vacation and thieves loot your stuff?

C'mon you're better than this...the point is so obvious it shouldn't require elaboration, i.e. if you invite advances, you will get them. If you don't want advances, don't invite them. Hope that helps

 

[Connorpozlee]

I just watched that ad and haven’t read this thread. I’m not sure what the purpose of the ad was for a razor company. I was expecting, “And that’s one to grow on” at the end.
The only other thing I will throw out there is that if they are trying to say that males are the only people who are bullies then they have never spoken with anybody that has ever worked in a school.

 

[demlion]

There already is a third group of men who assert themselves when something is wrong. In fact, the majority of men probably fall into this category. Those men don't need lectured by extreme feminists and the video isn't going to stop bad men from doing bad things. So, it has no purpose. Similar to how gun laws don't stop criminals from committing crimes with guns.

The second sentence in bold isn't true at all. Every man I've heard talk about this ad in person considers it total BS and everyone of those men would step in and stop bad behavior if they see it. Full disclosure, all of the men around me are either military or ex-military and most of them have an extreme level of masculinity. In fact, men who aren't inclined to see a problem with this video are likely to not step in if they see one of these situations - it's commonly referred to as having no backbone. Their wife's boyfriend might step in for them though.

Oh so you agree they are referring to that third group? You know, this is not about intervening like a bar bouncer does--to protect a total stranger from a violent event while the event is going on. Instead, the intervention of bystanders that this movement talks about comes when your buddy starts catcalling a woman on the street and you tell him to stop.

Young men need to stop the objectification of women. Men can do this by simply not tolerating it from their friends. Lots of places are teaching it in the public schools, so this does not need your approval.

So, no. It is not about some Charles Bronson moment. Sorry.

 

[demlion]

C'mon you're better than this...the point is so obvious it shouldn't require elaboration, i.e. if you invite advances, you will get them. If you don't want advances, don't invite them. Hope that helps

But what about my parallel example? Not going that far, eh?

 

[KnightSlayer]

I have stopped buying Nike products with their overhyped glorification of Kapernick. I am throwing out all of my Gillette products and will go full on with Schick or I'll try that Dollar Shave Club deal. These pretentious, over-produced fluff pieces are an assault on the regular man. Count how many black men are in that Gillette piece of garbage. As a white male, I found it offensive, but who's going to listen to a middle-aged white dude....I'm what their protesting against. Well, they won't get any of my hard-earned money anymore.

Aww, that's cute. You think people give a shit what you do. Do you want a virtual hug?

 

[KnightSlayer]

C'mon you're better than this...the point is so obvious it shouldn't require elaboration, i.e. if you invite advances, you will get them. If you don't want advances, don't invite them. Hope that helps

Sort of how you are inviting people to call you a dumbass.

 

[BobPSU92]

I hate me(n).

 

[BobPSU92]

WOKE. ADVERTISING.

See the link below. From the article:

"More companies may soon follow suit, because customers want to see strong stands on politically charged topics like race, immigration, gay rights, guns and the environment."

https://www.cnn.com/2019/01/16/business/gillette-ad-procter-and-gamble-metoo/index.html

All customers want this in advertisements?

 

[Lionguy32]

I tried the Harry's razors and like the Gillettes much better. If they want to borderline insult the male gender, let them. Just give me a better shave.