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Lurker, Tom, Ray....

richie83

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May 29, 2001
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Any F'n body. So does this mean we are never, ever, ever going to know wtf happened. What will happen in the Paterno suit. I waited 5 LONG years for some testimony and now this shit. Frank sure as hell knows what's going on, whoever the hell he is.

Somebody tell me that the good guys will get their way at some point in this mess.
 
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Brother -- I feel your pain. Believe me. But I believe we have been misled. FOR YEARS NOW... we have been hearing that there is still stuff out there, that there is an FBI investigation, Tom knows something secret, etc, etc, etc.... but the plain reality of it is this...

We ain't gonna get the truth. I'm a young man in my late 20s and even I don't think I'll live long enough to see Joe's name restored. It just ain't gonna happen. SO, I've either got to come to terms with it, or just stop caring about Penn State altogether..

It is what it is... I'm so sad that we've lost the Penn State I knew from childhood but I guess I just didn't really know what the "real" Penn State was.

Turns out the "real" Penn State doesn't really give a shit about me or many of the alums, so long as they're donating and contributing to the bottom line -- the bottom line being a BOT that controls the University so that it can dole out MILLLLLIONS in construction contracts and dining hall contracts to line their pockets..

which at the end of the day is really just the saddest part..... that they would go THIS FAR just to have more money... this whole shit show was really just about money....

Think about that.
 
Brother -- I feel your pain. Believe me. But I believe we have been misled. FOR YEARS NOW... we have been hearing that there is still stuff out there, that there is an FBI investigation, Tom knows something secret, etc, etc, etc.... but the plain reality of it is this...

We ain't gonna get the truth. I'm a young man in my late 20s and even I don't think I'll live long enough to see Joe's name restored. It just ain't gonna happen. SO, I've either got to come to terms with it, or just stop caring about Penn State altogether..

It is what it is... I'm so sad that we've lost the Penn State I knew from childhood but I guess I just didn't really know what the "real" Penn State was.

Turns out the "real" Penn State doesn't really give a shit about me or many of the alums, so long as they're donating and contributing to the bottom line -- the bottom line being a BOT that controls the University so that it can dole out MILLLLLIONS in construction contracts and dining hall contracts to line their pockets..

which at the end of the day is really just the saddest part..... that they would go THIS FAR just to have more money... this whole shit show was really just about money....

Think about that.
Well said, Sharkie. Take comfort in the fact that you learned this at young age. Heck, I didn't know who the real Penn State was for 55 years or so.
P.S. Well that probably isn't accurate. I like to think that the Penn State we now know wasn't always like this.
 
Any F'n body. So does this mean we are never, ever, ever going to know wtf happened. What will happen in the Paterno suit. I waited 5 LONG years for some testimony and now this shit. Frank sure as hell knows what's going on, whoever the hell he is.

Somebody tell me that the good guys will get their way at some point in this mess.

I don't know who the good guys are. I think Joe might have been one.

But it sure does sound like all the tinfoil came tumbling down today. 5 years was a long time to spin yarns about forged emails, locker room drawings, phantom janitors, vast media conspiracies using a 24 year old reporter as their front, Fed cases, the Philly DA, and on and on.

What's clear now is that C & S will not be able to take the 5th in any of the remaining trials. So we will hear from them one way or another, and there's not going to be much reason for them to bend the truth to benefit anyone, any culture, any school, or even themselves. I don't know that even if they had gone to trial we could have been assured of the truth. Now there is no longer any reason to hold back, whatever it might be.
 
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Any F'n body. So does this mean we are never, ever, ever going to know wtf happened. What will happen in the Paterno suit. I waited 5 LONG years for some testimony and now this shit. Frank sure as hell knows what's going on, whoever the hell he is.

Somebody tell me that the good guys will get their way at some point in this mess.
Move on. The football team will be good next season.
 
For the past 5 and a half years, I have kept quiet about this whole mess. I have been quiet because I did not know how this happened, who knew what and when.

I have held out hope that somehow we (the loyal alumni (alumnae), and the general public would learn the truth, the whole truth, unfettered by media opinion. This is the United States of America.

I have lurked daily and tried to stay current with the news, tried to stay above the sometimes bitter discussions that took place on this site.

Today's news has killed my spirit once and for all. I am certain that Curley and Schultz are doing the best for themselves. The system has afforded them this opportunity and they took the option.

I have listened to radio reports (KDKA) and ABC evening news tonight. The reports are "they pled guilty to a misdemeanor charge" and "they could get 5 years in prison". Once again, the media, not caring to dig into the entire story (the entire truth?) Does NOT report the charges that were dismissed previously that were classified as FELONIES.

So the general population, including the majority of Penn State alumni, remains ignorant to the whole story and now can truthfully say that Tim Corley and Gary Schultz were guilty. That is the media in 2017, stories reported in less than 30 seconds and people's reputations left in tatters.

Sigh.
 
Brother -- I feel your pain. Believe me. But I believe we have been misled. FOR YEARS NOW... we have been hearing that there is still stuff out there, that there is an FBI investigation, Tom knows something secret, etc, etc, etc.... but the plain reality of it is this...

We ain't gonna get the truth. I'm a young man in my late 20s and even I don't think I'll live long enough to see Joe's name restored. It just ain't gonna happen. SO, I've either got to come to terms with it, or just stop caring about Penn State altogether..

It is what it is... I'm so sad that we've lost the Penn State I knew from childhood but I guess I just didn't really know what the "real" Penn State was.

Turns out the "real" Penn State doesn't really give a shit about me or many of the alums, so long as they're donating and contributing to the bottom line -- the bottom line being a BOT that controls the University so that it can dole out MILLLLLIONS in construction contracts and dining hall contracts to line their pockets..

which at the end of the day is really just the saddest part..... that they would go THIS FAR just to have more money... this whole shit show was really just about money....

Think about that.

Tim Curley, Graham Spanier, and Gary Schultz are not "Penn State", and neither is an evil pedophile who is now rotting in prison.

And neither are the members of the BoT who voted to fire Joe.

And neither is the panicked former player who never called police after he saw the pedophile in a shower with a child.

None of that is Penn State.
 
For the past 5 and a half years, I have kept quiet about this whole mess. I have been quiet because I did not know how this happened, who knew what and when.

I have held out hope that somehow we (the loyal alumni (alumnae), and the general public would learn the truth, the whole truth, unfettered by media opinion. This is the United States of America.

I have lurked daily and tried to stay current with the news, tried to stay above the sometimes bitter discussions that took place on this site.

Today's news has killed my spirit once and for all. I am certain that Curley and Schultz are doing the best for themselves. The system has afforded them this opportunity and they took the option.

I have listened to radio reports (KDKA) and ABC evening news tonight. The reports are "they pled guilty to a misdemeanor charge" and "they could get 5 years in prison". Once again, the media, not caring to dig into the entire story (the entire truth?) Does NOT report the charges that were dismissed previously that were classified as FELONIES.

So the general population, including the majority of Penn State alumni, remains ignorant to the whole story and now can truthfully say that Tim Corley and Gary Schultz were guilty. That is the media in 2017, stories reported in less than 30 seconds and people's reputations left in tatters.

Sigh.

Damn right they were guilty, and so is Spanier, and he'll cop a plea by the end of this week too.

Just like some of us have been saying for five years and been assaulted on this board for saying so.
 
Tim Curley, Graham Spanier, and Gary Schultz are not "Penn State", and neither is an evil pedophile who is now rotting in prison.

And neither are the members of the BoT who voted to fire Joe.

None of that is Penn State.

For once, Gunnie, I agree with you.

Penn State is all in what you make it.

For me, it's Success with Honor in every area. It's cutting edge research, top-notch academics, top alumni network, and top-notch sports. If someone else doesn't agree with this and wants to poke fun at Penn State because of a pedophile or a bunch of dolts who couldn't do the right thing, that's on them....not me. I don't care what they think.
 
Any F'n body. So does this mean we are never, ever, ever going to know wtf happened. What will happen in the Paterno suit. I waited 5 LONG years for some testimony and now this shit. Frank sure as hell knows what's going on, whoever the hell he is.

Somebody tell me that the good guys will get their way at some point in this mess.
Maybe we do know what happened and we just don't realize. MM saw something inappropriate and his gut told him it was potentially really bad, although what he actually saw was not. He told Joe, who took it seriously, and reported it up the chain of command as he should have. Curley, Shultz and Spanier then deliberated about what to do. They weren't sure exactly what happened or what they should do and they opted for a middle ground approach, don't report it but in essence try to cut ties with JS. They did this in part because they knew this is exactly what the police, DA, DPW and CYS did a few years earlier in a similar situation. They thought this was a solid course of action since it was the same thing law enforcement had done.
But in hindsight by not reporting it to criminal authorities they endangered children. Once a new AG came along, who had no dog in the fight and saw the case clearly, the nonsense charges were dropped, a reasonable resolution was offered, and C/S agreed to it.
They can now accept responsibility for a bad judgment, with no evil motives, but nonetheless a serious misjudgment by senior administrators.
We now know they were overcharged, and MM's statements were manipulated and distorted if not outright fabricated. JS is where he belongs. Real victims were compensated for their damages, some possible fake victims used the weakness of PSU to also cash in.
We will see next week if Spanier can fill in any more blanks. But I think maybe we have been expecting there was more to this story when in reality there was less.
If on 11/2011 CSS were charged with this one midomeanor charge, no cover up, no perjury, no obstruction, things may have played out far better for all involved - the victims, PSU, CSS, JVP and many more more.
 
Any F'n body. So does this mean we are never, ever, ever going to know wtf happened. What will happen in the Paterno suit. I waited 5 LONG years for some testimony and now this shit. Frank sure as hell knows what's going on, whoever the hell he is.

Somebody tell me that the good guys will get their way at some point in this mess.

Put that 5 year Weight to the side and move on. Life is calling.

 
For once, Gunnie, I agree with you.

Penn State is all in what you make it.

For me, it's Success with Honor in every area. It's cutting edge research, top-notch academics, top alumni network, and top-notch sports. If someone else doesn't agree with this and wants to poke fun at Penn State because of a pedophile or a bunch of dolts who couldn't do the right thing, that's on them....not me. I don't care what they think.

Absolutely, positively, 100 % correct.

Period.

End of story.
 
Maybe we do know what happened and we just don't realize. MM saw something inappropriate and his gut told him it was potentially really bad, although what he actually saw was not. He told Joe, who took it seriously, and reported it up the chain of command as he should have. Curley, Shultz and Spanier then deliberated about what to do. They weren't sure exactly what happened or what they should do and they opted for a middle ground approach, don't report it but in essence try to cut ties with JS. They did this in part because they knew this is exactly what the police, DA, DPW and CYS did a few years earlier in a similar situation. They thought this was a solid course of action since it was the same thing law enforcement had done.
But in hindsight by not reporting it to criminal authorities they endangered children. Once a new AG came along, who had no dog in the fight and saw the case clearly, the nonsense charges were dropped, a reasonable resolution was offered, and C/S agreed to it.
They can now accept responsibility for a bad judgment, with no evil motives, but nonetheless a serious misjudgment by senior administrators.
We now know they were overcharged, and MM's statements were manipulated and distorted if not outright fabricated. JS is where he belongs. Real victims were compensated for their damages, some possible fake victims used the weakness of PSU to also cash in.
We will see next week if Spanier can fill in any more blanks. But I think maybe we have been expecting there was more to this story when in reality there was less.
If on 11/2011 CSS were charged with this one midomeanor charge, no cover up, no perjury, no obstruction, things may have played out far better for all involved - the victims, PSU, CSS, JVP and many more more.

What he actually saw? For christ sake, what he actually saw was horrifying and anyone in their right mind would have thought it was "bad".

There is zero excuse for not calling police. Zero.

And Spanier sure as hell won't be "filling in any blanks". Spanier will be copping a plea to stay out of prison, and then staying quiet forever, just like Curley and Schultz.

Time to leave them behind. Forever.
 
What he actually saw? For christ sake, what he actually saw was horrifying and anyone in their right mind would have thought it was "bad".

There is zero excuse for not calling police. Zero.

And Spanier sure as hell won't be "filling in any blanks". Spanier will be copping a plea to stay out of prison, and then staying quiet forever, just like Curley and Schultz.

Time to leave them behind. Forever.

Wrong about one thing for sure -- These 3 will all be called in the Paterno v NCAA case & will testify as they cannot plead the 5th.

They will be deposed by both sides first.
 
Wrong about one thing for sure -- These 3 will all be called in the Paterno v NCAA case & will testify as they cannot plead the 5th.

They will be deposed by both sides first.

LMAO, you don't really believe that do you? These 3 are silent forever. 5 and a half years of silence and they have done everything in their power to stay that way.
 
While they are maybe silent , any statements and testimony are public record as soon as everyone pleas or appeals are exhausted.
 
LMAO, you don't really believe that do you? These 3 are silent forever. 5 and a half years of silence and they have done everything in their power to stay that way.

They don't have any way to avoid being called and compelled to testify. The only question is which side will want to call them. Which depends on what they have to say about Joe.
 
LMAO, you don't really believe that do you? These 3 are silent forever. 5 and a half years of silence and they have done everything in their power to stay that way.
Until Spanier signs his book deal...
 
Maybe we do know what happened and we just don't realize. MM saw something inappropriate and his gut told him it was potentially really bad, although what he actually saw was not. He told Joe, who took it seriously, and reported it up the chain of command as he should have. Curley, Shultz and Spanier then deliberated about what to do. They weren't sure exactly what happened or what they should do and they opted for a middle ground approach, don't report it but in essence try to cut ties with JS. They did this in part because they knew this is exactly what the police, DA, DPW and CYS did a few years earlier in a similar situation. They thought this was a solid course of action since it was the same thing law enforcement had done.
But in hindsight by not reporting it to criminal authorities they endangered children. Once a new AG came along, who had no dog in the fight and saw the case clearly, the nonsense charges were dropped, a reasonable resolution was offered, and C/S agreed to it.
They can now accept responsibility for a bad judgment, with no evil motives, but nonetheless a serious misjudgment by senior administrators.
We now know they were overcharged, and MM's statements were manipulated and distorted if not outright fabricated. JS is where he belongs. Real victims were compensated for their damages, some possible fake victims used the weakness of PSU to also cash in.
We will see next week if Spanier can fill in any more blanks. But I think maybe we have been expecting there was more to this story when in reality there was less.
If on 11/2011 CSS were charged with this one midomeanor charge, no cover up, no perjury, no obstruction, things may have played out far better for all involved - the victims, PSU, CSS, JVP and many more more.
Well said sir.
 
I wonder what ole Levon would have said about all this?

I'm sure Levon would have had no problem letting this all go. It's time. Not sure if Netflix is still showing his documentary, but it's a good one.
 
I am thinking this thread should take lurkers name out.

Lurker has always claimed to be a good friend of tims. Obviously there are some difficult times coming up for Tim and I am sure lurker is trying to be supportive and understanding of his friend. All the best lurker.

As for Tom and ray I am sure they will have things to say but I would caution all about making statements of fact when only a small group has the facts.

Tough days are ahead but the truth will heal it all in the end and the end of these events is now closer than ever.

One final note thank you to those who have had cordial exchanges through the five and a half years.
 
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I am thinking this thread should take lurkers name out.

Lurker has always claimed to be a good friend of tims. Obviously there are some difficult times coming up for Tim and I am sure lurker is trying to be supportive and understanding of his friend. All the best lurker.

As for Tom and ray I am sure they will have things to say but I would caution all about making statements of fact when only a small group has the facts.

Tough days are ahead but the truth will heal it all in the end and the end of these events is now closer than ever.

One final note thank you to those who have had cordial exchanges through the five and a half years.
Dukie,
Speaking only for myself.....I have,can, and will speculate about all aspects of this sorry mess. However, you and your family were thrust into the vortex of this matter. I believe that most of us who may disagree with you, have treated you with respect. You deserve nothing less, as you are the consummate gentleman. I wish you nothing but prosperity in the future.
 
I am thinking this thread should take lurkers name out.

Lurker has always claimed to be a good friend of tims. Obviously there are some difficult times coming up for Tim and I am sure lurker is trying to be supportive and understanding of his friend. All the best lurker.

As for Tom and ray I am sure they will have things to say but I would caution all about making statements of fact when only a small group has the facts.

Tough days are ahead but the truth will heal it all in the end and the end of these events is now closer than ever.

One final note thank you to those who have had cordial exchanges through the five and a half years.

Well said. One of these days, I'm going to have to stop by and introduce myself. In the meantime, give my best to Mike.
 
Dukie,
Speaking only for myself.....I have,can, and will speculate about all aspects of this sorry mess. However, you and your family were thrust into the vortex of this matter. I believe that most of us who may disagree with you, have treated you with respect. You deserve nothing less, as you are the consummate gentleman. I wish you nothing but prosperity in the future.
Concur.
 
Well said, Sharkie. Take comfort in the fact that you learned this at young age. Heck, I didn't know who the real Penn State was for 55 years or so.
P.S. Well that probably isn't accurate. I like to think that the Penn State we now know wasn't always like this.
The real PSU you knew 55 years ago didn't have the current BOT.
 
Maybe we do know what happened and we just don't realize. MM saw something inappropriate and his gut told him it was potentially really bad, although what he actually saw was not. He told Joe, who took it seriously, and reported it up the chain of command as he should have. Curley, Shultz and Spanier then deliberated about what to do. They weren't sure exactly what happened or what they should do and they opted for a middle ground approach, don't report it but in essence try to cut ties with JS. They did this in part because they knew this is exactly what the police, DA, DPW and CYS did a few years earlier in a similar situation. They thought this was a solid course of action since it was the same thing law enforcement had done.
But in hindsight by not reporting it to criminal authorities they endangered children. Once a new AG came along, who had no dog in the fight and saw the case clearly, the nonsense charges were dropped, a reasonable resolution was offered, and C/S agreed to it.
They can now accept responsibility for a bad judgment, with no evil motives, but nonetheless a serious misjudgment by senior administrators.
We now know they were overcharged, and MM's statements were manipulated and distorted if not outright fabricated. JS is where he belongs. Real victims were compensated for their damages, some possible fake victims used the weakness of PSU to also cash in.
We will see next week if Spanier can fill in any more blanks. But I think maybe we have been expecting there was more to this story when in reality there was less.
If on 11/2011 CSS were charged with this one midomeanor charge, no cover up, no perjury, no obstruction, things may have played out far better for all involved - the victims, PSU, CSS, JVP and many more more.

All true...but what will always bother me is that to many..."Joe" is guilty...not too many people REALLY know who C/S/S even are..and Joe was the reason why this all happened...he has been convicted and shamed in the court of public opinion generated by the likes of ESPN etc

Joe was sacrificed...by our own University...beyond sad...
 
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All true...but what will always bother me is that to many..."Joe" is guilty...not too many people REALLY know who C/S/S even are..and Joe was the reason why this all happened...he has been convicted and shamed in the court of public opinion generated by the likes of ESPN etc

Joe was sacrificed...by our own University...beyond sad...
He could have told MM to call the cops. Just saying.
 
Maybe we do know what happened and we just don't realize. MM saw something inappropriate and his gut told him it was potentially really bad, although what he actually saw was not. He told Joe, who took it seriously, and reported it up the chain of command as he should have. Curley, Shultz and Spanier then deliberated about what to do. They weren't sure exactly what happened or what they should do and they opted for a middle ground approach, don't report it but in essence try to cut ties with JS. They did this in part because they knew this is exactly what the police, DA, DPW and CYS did a few years earlier in a similar situation. They thought this was a solid course of action since it was the same thing law enforcement had done.
But in hindsight by not reporting it to criminal authorities they endangered children. Once a new AG came along, who had no dog in the fight and saw the case clearly, the nonsense charges were dropped, a reasonable resolution was offered, and C/S agreed to it.
They can now accept responsibility for a bad judgment, with no evil motives, but nonetheless a serious misjudgment by senior administrators.
We now know they were overcharged, and MM's statements were manipulated and distorted if not outright fabricated. JS is where he belongs. Real victims were compensated for their damages, some possible fake victims used the weakness of PSU to also cash in.
We will see next week if Spanier can fill in any more blanks. But I think maybe we have been expecting there was more to this story when in reality there was less.
If on 11/2011 CSS were charged with this one midomeanor charge, no cover up, no perjury, no obstruction, things may have played out far better for all involved - the victims, PSU, CSS, JVP and many more more.

All very plausible. Probably likely.

Hey Ceasar, I know you play close attention the matters in Hbg. Any word on whether the deal precludes an appeal? I ask because one of the motions that preceded this had to do with case law regarding the definition of endangerment. Apparently, the anticipated opinion in the Catholic church case could have had a bearing on this case according to C&S attorneys. I'm wondering if they appeal if true.
 
Brother -- I feel your pain. Believe me. But I believe we have been misled. FOR YEARS NOW... we have been hearing that there is still stuff out there, that there is an FBI investigation, Tom knows something secret, etc, etc, etc.... but the plain reality of it is this...

We ain't gonna get the truth. I'm a young man in my late 20s and even I don't think I'll live long enough to see Joe's name restored. It just ain't gonna happen. SO, I've either got to come to terms with it, or just stop caring about Penn State altogether..

It is what it is... I'm so sad that we've lost the Penn State I knew from childhood but I guess I just didn't really know what the "real" Penn State was.

Turns out the "real" Penn State doesn't really give a shit about me or many of the alums, so long as they're donating and contributing to the bottom line -- the bottom line being a BOT that controls the University so that it can dole out MILLLLLIONS in construction contracts and dining hall contracts to line their pockets..

which at the end of the day is really just the saddest part..... that they would go THIS FAR just to have more money... this whole shit show was really just about money....

Think about that.

Sorry you feel that way. My kids attended/attend Penn State as it is now and they've had fantastic experiences. My one kid is familiar with Paterno but only slightly since IT all came down while he was a freshman and the younger is familiar in name only. I think what some of the older alumni fail to understand about their "Dear Old State" is that it is much bigger than one or several people. What has not been ruined at PSU is the pride the current kids have for their university and the academic success of the school.

It saddens me that folks who supposed had such "pride" and "love" for their UNIVERSITY have basically reduced it to nothing more than a few bad apples that terribly mishandled a situation and have done what countless other large organizations do in times of crisis--throw folks under the bus.

There are tens of thousands of people at PSU doing amazing things but you focus on the few from 2011. That's the real sadness. But if abandoning ship makes you feel whole than by all means do what you need to do.
 
It saddens me that folks who supposed had such "pride" and "love" for their UNIVERSITY have basically reduced it to nothing more than a few bad apples that terribly mishandled a situation and have done what countless other large organizations do in times of crisis--throw folks under the bus.

Because some other bad apples took those bad apples and threw the entire school and its alums under the bus and reduced the university and its alums to a sea of scorn and hatred. That's why.
 
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