Intermat Rankings

dicemen99

Well-Known Member
Nov 15, 2005
5,194
6,074
1
Dice, can I ask why the discrepancy in your outlook between Haines and Facundo? For Haines you mentioned you’ll be optimistic about his chances. For Alex, you mention you haven’t seen him beat anyone good yet, so you’ll reserve judgment. In your opinion, has Haines faced better competition or has he just looked better than Alex so far? Thanks in advance, and I’ll add I always enjoy reading your posts.
I don't think I can do any better than @El-Jefe did - he is right on - but I will add some things that tick boxes for me:

Haines age - he's seeking out this training, competition, and beating the quality of competition at least one year and probably closer to two years younger than Facundo. At a weight where age probably matters more than it does than at the lower ones.

His pace. Not so much attack rate, but that he's relentless in all three positions because he is always a threat to score. It's a lot of pressure on an opponent.

Composure. He is unflappable out there. His Gallagher match (btw, off-topic, but there are guys on here that were calling this a domination or beat-down - what match were they watching?!?!) when he gives up that TD, especially in almost a turk position with under a minute to go - that is a match that guys lose. There are a couple of things - that you can go into more detail on - that happen right after the TD that were critical and are also great examples of why relentless wrestlers win. Another good example of this is the Garvin - who is a damn good freestyler - match at U20s. Not that this was a close match, but that is a match that tests your composure. It also is a good example of just how friggin' strong Haines must be.

That stuff above is all stuff that the best are made of.

Facundo does a lot of good stuff too. Like Haines, it seems as if he has the right mindset, seeks out competition, even-keeled, is a freakin tank, etc. But as Jefe pointed out, not sure we are ever going to see the kind of offensive pressure from him that we will from Haines. They might ultimately arrive at the same place though, but I think it's just a bit harder coming from where Facundo is now.
 
Last edited:

mcpat

Well-Known Member
Mar 13, 2021
2,010
4,254
1
His Gallagher match (btw, off-topic, but there are guys on here that were calling this a domination or beat-down - what match were they watching?!?!)
I think the words were “putting it on him”. Still think turning a guy for four after the match was already won fits those words.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Idahopennstatefan

AndEEss

Well-Known Member
Jul 7, 2020
1,185
2,211
1
I’ve written this multiple times on BWI:

Facundo missed out on key training partners last summer. Casey, Carter, Bekzod, Franklin and others were gone getting ready for the Olympics. One of the best things about PSU and the NLWC is that you have world class training partners…when they’re there. Lots of other true freshman have an entire summer working with coaches, senior level athletes and current starters at/near their weight. No or minimal classes with hours and hours every week to get better. Facundo didnt.

I thought it was apparent that Carter made a significant offensive leap this past summer; I think that was in no small part because he got a LOT of time in with not one but two Olympians, one of which earned a medal. He does a few things now that I’m pretty sure he picked up from Bekzod.
 

dicemen99

Well-Known Member
Nov 15, 2005
5,194
6,074
1
I think the words were “putting it on him”. Still think turning a guy for four after the match was already won fits those words.
Can't fathom watching that match and stating that Haines was putting it on him. Two very evenly matched wrestlers. If anything, I would watch that match and think that Gallagher is stronger and more mature at this time and will be a tough row to hoe for Haines for a year or two at least.
 

mcpat

Well-Known Member
Mar 13, 2021
2,010
4,254
1
Can't fathom watching that match and stating that Haines was putting it on him. Two very evenly matched wrestlers. If anything, I would watch that match and think that Gallagher is stronger and more mature at this time and will be a tough row to hoe for Haines for a year or two at least.
Agree to disagree. And like reading your posts regardless.
 
  • Like
Reactions: dicemen99

AndEEss

Well-Known Member
Jul 7, 2020
1,185
2,211
1
Can't fathom watching that match and stating that Haines was putting it on him. Two very evenly matched wrestlers. If anything, I would watch that match and think that Gallagher is stronger and more mature at this time and will be a tough row to hoe for Haines for a year or two at least.

Gallagher was backing up the entire match and could have been called for stalling multiple times.

If you back up out of bounds six times in the first four minutes of a match against a high school kid, you don’t have a physical advantage over him.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: SUPERTODD

dicemen99

Well-Known Member
Nov 15, 2005
5,194
6,074
1
I’ve written this multiple times on BWI:

Facundo missed out on key training partners last summer. Casey, Carter, Bekzod, Franklin and others were gone getting ready for the Olympics. One of the best things about PSU and the NLWC is that you have world class training partners…when they’re there. Lots of other true freshman have an entire summer working with coaches, senior level athletes and current starters at/near their weight. No or minimal classes with hours and hours every week to get better. Facundo didnt.

I thought it was apparent that Carter made a significant offensive leap this past summer; I think that was in no small part because he got a LOT of time in with not one but two Olympians, one of which earned a medal. He does a few things now that I’m pretty sure he picked up from Bekzod.
That is not an insignificant point. One that I have not taken into consideration.

I don't want my takes seen as bashing Facundo - they're not. In fact, the first reply I made to @McScoreley indicated that he may be right to be optimistic about Facundo this year, I'll just reserve judgment at this time. Let's see where he is in January.

I'm not reserving judgment on BB and RH. I've made my opinion known about BB - I don't think he's a solid AA guy at this time - and for a while now, I have been very hesitant on counting on RH because of the injury history. I hope I'm wrong on both.
 

dicemen99

Well-Known Member
Nov 15, 2005
5,194
6,074
1
Gallagher was backing up the entire match and could have been called for stalling multiple times.
He wasn't. Neither was RBY. And there is no universe where I think DeSanto is on the same level as RBY.
 

mcpat

Well-Known Member
Mar 13, 2021
2,010
4,254
1
He wasn't. Neither was RBY. And there is no universe where I think DeSanto is on the same level as RBY.
I’ve probably posted things critical of DeSanto on occasion. But I will most definitely miss watching him wrestle. I hope the young man starts competing in freestyle on the Senior Circuit. If he doesn’t, well, he won’t soon be forgotten and it will be for his talent and style instead of anything else.
 
Last edited:

STAND with PRIDE

Well-Known Member
Sep 9, 2018
4,580
6,667
1
Beau wrestles a bit like Jimmy in my opinion, he just doesn't pull the trigger often enough.
It always seemed like if Jimmy would have wrestled freely he would have had more success.
Absolutely, HS Jimmy could take you down AT WILL,one of the sweetest shots ive ever seen.
 

baccafarmer

Well-Known Member
Aug 20, 2018
291
524
1
Brumley Gap, VA
He wasn't. Neither was RBY. And there is no universe where I think DeSanto is on the same level as RBY.
Always enjoy and learn from your posts. I agree that RBY separated himself from ADS, but, if you watched their first go …. RBY had that “deer in the headlights” look and got steamrolled. If we could get our hands on what ever Cael said to RBY in the weeks after that match ….. it would be gold!
 
  • Like
Reactions: mcpat

jack66

Well-Known Member
May 29, 2001
7,379
10,858
1
In his match against D'Emilio, he seemed to suddenly enjoy his newfound strength advantage so much and started just playing the push out game for whatever reason and before you knew it, he gave up a takedown then 4 and lost.

But doesn't that briefly summarize what has been his MO so far?

It seems like we can look back at most of his losses and see how he had a path to victory if not for a lapse in focus/judgment.

IMO, when almost every match comes down to whoever wins a last-minute flury, too many of them will go the wrong way.

I don't think I'm alone in thinking that opening up is his best path to reaching the podium ... I guess we'll see.
 
  • Like
Reactions: AndEEss

Chickenman Testa

Well-Known Member
Jan 4, 2003
22,008
34,198
1
I did it with Spencer vs. Spencer at every weight and got 60-60 because everybody wins.
At this stage it would be great theater to have Lar come on in here (alerted by a friend) to scold us like he did Spyker.

The fun we would have …
 

PSU Mike

Well-Known Member
Gold Member
Jul 29, 2001
14,727
7,382
1
Glencoe, IL
At this stage it would be great theater to have Lar come on in here (alerted by a friend) to scold us like he did Spyker.

The fun we would have …
All in fun for me, and directed more at HR. HR is better to me than most outsiders. And I’m sure Larry’s good at most of what he does.
 

Delcolion915

Well-Known Member
Mar 19, 2022
289
290
1
At this stage it would be great theater to have Lar come on in here (alerted by a friend) to scold us like he did Spyker.

The fun we would have …
Who can forget when he boastfully youtubed Cyler Sandrson beating DT about 1 month after Taylor arrived on campus as a true freshman.....about 3 months later Taylor was beating Cyler in the room.
 

Cowbell Man

Well-Known Member
Feb 2, 2002
4,487
4,049
1
Always enjoy and learn from your posts. I agree that RBY separated himself from ADS, but, if you watched their first go …. RBY had that “deer in the headlights” look and got steamrolled. If we could get our hands on what ever Cael said to RBY in the weeks after that match ….. it would be gold!
It’s pretty obvious he said “um….you can beat him with one arm tied behind your back”.