I think this Navy Captain deserves a medal
- Thread starter Nitt1300
- Start date
I agree. Anyone can have an opinion. I said that above. I find when discussing military matters it helps me to know a little more about the other people in the conversation. It’s not meant to belittle anyone that didn’t serve. It’s to help advance the discussion.
then I weigh your opinion as being worth hearing- but that won't make me change mine
mom mot trying to get you to change your opinion. I’m trying to understand why You are so emotional about something that is no direct bearing on your current life. But like I said, if you want to get stressed out about something that you have ZERO control over, then have at it.
trust me, I can be mad at a situation (and I am) without being stressed
I've seen stress, and posting on a message board isn't stressful
If you think the Navy is never wrong you should think again. My daughter is in Japan and the Navy is telling her she has to move in the middle of the pandemic so they can renovate her current townhouse. I don't think this is a smart move and it is putting my daughter and grandchildren at risk?!
I served. I received a degree and a commission on the day I graduated from Penn State. I will not get into the details of my service other than to say that I served honorably and rose to the rank of captain. That said, on this issue, I put no greater weight on the opinion of those who served as opposed to those that did not. In the many years I have spent on this earth, I have concluded that the clearest vision is often found among those whose life experience is antithetical to mine.
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I didn't see where anyone brought up the treatment of the two captains that were involved in collisions that caused sailors to die. How many days did it take before either of them were removed from their commands - 24 and 41 I think. How long did it take for Capt Crozier to be removed and nobody died.
Yeah, Crozier almost certainly knew his career would be over. He had a decision to make and he made the right one. Modly was probably right that he had to be relieved of command. But Crozier, through self-sacrifice, got the outcome he so desperately wanted -- 5,000 men are being evacuated to safety and presumably decent medical care. How many men would have died if he didn't go outside the chain of command?
Anyway, if it were wartime it would be a different matter but probably this will have no military repercussions. That carrier will be back out there with a healthy crew doing its job soon, probably long before we have a viable C19 testing program.
Well one of the criticisms of Modly was that he acted summarily -- without any investigation or finding. That isn't generally how you relieve top commanders in peacetime.
If it were wartime he wouldn’t have blinked IMO and would have carried out his mission as would the crew. It wasn’t and he had to make a tough decision. Modly’s speech to the crew was childish and some people cannot handle that level of power well. He seems like one that certainly did not.
Naval academy grad 10 year sub nuclear power and weapons officer.
We are a republic and a free people. I want to hear the opinions of those that did not serve. I made a choice and I hate people thanking me for my service. I got an education and a pay check. I think what is being expressed is the esprit de corps that is instilled when you serve. The reason commission officers ranks are on our shoulders is because it is the weight of leadership. I served under some incredible people and also under some complete idiots.
Having seen good Captains and bad, I value the good ones very highly. Hence my admittedly extremely pissed off attitude in this instance.
I agree. I want to hear all opinions. But since this is a touchy subject on a mostly anonymous forum, I think it helps forward the conversation if we at least know each others veteran status while conversing. I never meant to sound like veterans wouldn't value opinions of non veterans. I just meant that in a situation like this, opinions of those who have served probably should carry a little more weight in our discussion (because we lived it, not because a civilian has lesser value). Doesn't mean any opinion is right or wrong. At this point none of us know enough of the details to know for sure.
As far as the voting comment? I'm not sure how @The Spin Meister got there. This is a conversation about a military matter. I just want to know where people are coming from that are commenting on it. Sorry if I'm coming across in a way I'm not intending.
One guy said he didn't give damn about the opinion of anyone that didn't serve. And he seems to have that attitude about everything.
The best officer I worked for (though down-chain) was a Navy Captain. In fact, he intervened personally to get me, a lowly E-5 Marine he didn't even know except for performance reports and the testimony of subordinates, a civilian job in the government. That degree of concern and sense of responsibility for guys in your command is pretty exceptional.
The essence of good leadership is finding the right balance, which changes depending on the operational circumstances, between the men and the mission. It's not a question of choosing one or the other. Yes, the mission comes first. But you can't do the mission without the men, nor can you do the mission well while neglecting the interests of the men or being careless with their lives or welfare.
Bureaucrats are a dime a dozen...in the military and government...the church...everywhere. Leaders are a lot fewer in number. I don't know, maybe it's my imagination, but it seems to me like they're getting fewer all the time. Captain Crozier may have made some errors in judgment, but he seems like a leader. The Navy needs all of those it can get. So do the rest of us.
I not sure if you were ever in the military and given your take I'd say you weren't but there's this tiny little thing that's deemed very important in the services called Chain Of Command. In other words you go to your immediate superior not the press with your problems. He was in a position of power and as such should have known better. Not surprised he got sacked by his superiors. He showed extremely poor judgement and will suffer for it. Shame!
I'd bet he did go through the proper chain of command and nothing was done. At some point he decided it was worth risking his career for the good of those serving under him. Judging by your comment and others, there is no shortage of people that would put their career over the well being of people under their command.
Trump said the Captain was a great officer with a stellar performance record. Said he didn't deserve to have his career ruined over this. Said he will look into it. Stay tuned.
I very much doubt that we will.
I think he signed the letter so that he could take sole blame with the bureaucrats.
If you read the letter, especially 2."Inappropriate Focus on Testing" and 3."Inappropriate Quarantine and Isolation" and perhaps also 5."Lessons learned from the Diamond Princess" these sections read more like something a doctor rather than a line officer would write.
I believe that the letter was the consensus of his command staff, including medical, and that as CO he decided to act and to take responsibility for acting.
I could be wrong- but I'm betting I'm not.
IDK if his staff helped write the letter but they certainly expressed these concerns leading up to the letter. He may have wrote it based on what was said during staff meetings and from his notes. I would assume he wrote it himself as to protect his staff.
Well neither of us has any first hand knowledge and we both can speculate as to what actually went on based on media reports, Sooo if that is what it is I'd trust that his commander made the right decision. Relieving a Captain from duty is not taken lightly.
Why is nobody discussing the opinion and or orders from the ship’s surgeon? An attack carrier has a tremendous health care facility and teams?
That’s my point as you know this wasn’t a Captain gone crazy. There is so much more to this story none of us know.
It will be interesting to see if the CNO is truly given a free hand with this. If he is, he may decide to fire several people.
Yep. This is a long way from finished.
Navy wants to reinstate fired captain of coronavirus-hit aircraft carrier, sources say
WASHINGTON (Reuters) - In an extraordinary reversal, the U.S. Navy has recommended reinstating the fired captain of the coronavirus-hit aircraft carrier Theodore Roosevelt, whose crew hailed him as a hero willing to risk his job to safeguard his sailors, officials said on Friday.
The Navy's top leaders made the recommendation to reinstate Captain Brett Crozier on Friday to U.S. Defense Secretary Mark Esper, just three weeks after Crozier was relieved of command after the leak of his letter calling on the Navy for stronger measures, the officials said, speaking on condition of anonymity.
The Pentagon did not respond to a request for comment.
The officials said Esper was taking time to consider the recommendation.
Sources say Crozier is one of the 856 sailors from the Roosevelt's 4,800-member crew who have tested positive for the coronavirus, effectively taking one of the Navy's most powerful ships out of operation.
Crozier was fired about three weeks ago by the Navy's top civilian, Thomas Modly, against the recommendations of uniformed leaders, who suggested he wait for an investigation into the letter's leak.
Modly's decision to fire Crozier backfired badly, as members of the crew hailed their captain as a hero in an emotional sendoff captured on video that went viral on social media.
Embarrassed, Modly then compounded his problems by flying out to the carrier to ridicule Crozier over the leak and question his character in a speech to the Roosevelt's crew, which also leaked to the media. Modly then resigned.
The disclosure of the Navy's recommendation, which was first reported by the New York Times, came just hours after the Pentagon announced that at least 18 sailors aboard a U.S. Navy destroyer - the Kidd - had tested positive for the new coronavirus.
It was another blow to the military as it faces fallout over its handling of the Roosevelt, raising additional questions about whether the safeguards in place to protect U.S. troops are sufficient.
The cases have highlighted the U.S. military's struggle to meet increasingly competing priorities: maintaining readiness for conflict and safeguarding servicemembers as the virus spreads globally.
In the latest case, the outbreak aboard the Kidd took place while it was on a counter-narcotics mission in the Caribbean. A sailor who had become sick was medically evacuated off the ship and later tested positive for the virus.
That prompted further testing of the crew that led to the discovery of additional positive cases.
A specialized medical team has been sent to the ship to carry out contact tracing and more onsite testing, it added.
But only so much can be done while the ship is at sea, so the Navy is halting the mission and bringing it back to port.
The crisis being triggered by the coronavirus is the biggest facing Navy leadership since two crashes in the Asia Pacific region in 2017 that killed 17 sailors.
Those incidents raised questions about Navy training and the pace of operations, prompting a congressional hearing and the removal of a number of officers.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/u-navy-recommends-reinstating-fired-191715870.html
WASHINGTON (Reuters) - In an extraordinary reversal, the U.S. Navy has recommended reinstating the fired captain of the coronavirus-hit aircraft carrier Theodore Roosevelt, whose crew hailed him as a hero willing to risk his job to safeguard his sailors, officials said on Friday.
The Navy's top leaders made the recommendation to reinstate Captain Brett Crozier on Friday to U.S. Defense Secretary Mark Esper, just three weeks after Crozier was relieved of command after the leak of his letter calling on the Navy for stronger measures, the officials said, speaking on condition of anonymity.
The Pentagon did not respond to a request for comment.
The officials said Esper was taking time to consider the recommendation.
Sources say Crozier is one of the 856 sailors from the Roosevelt's 4,800-member crew who have tested positive for the coronavirus, effectively taking one of the Navy's most powerful ships out of operation.
Crozier was fired about three weeks ago by the Navy's top civilian, Thomas Modly, against the recommendations of uniformed leaders, who suggested he wait for an investigation into the letter's leak.
Modly's decision to fire Crozier backfired badly, as members of the crew hailed their captain as a hero in an emotional sendoff captured on video that went viral on social media.
Embarrassed, Modly then compounded his problems by flying out to the carrier to ridicule Crozier over the leak and question his character in a speech to the Roosevelt's crew, which also leaked to the media. Modly then resigned.
The disclosure of the Navy's recommendation, which was first reported by the New York Times, came just hours after the Pentagon announced that at least 18 sailors aboard a U.S. Navy destroyer - the Kidd - had tested positive for the new coronavirus.
It was another blow to the military as it faces fallout over its handling of the Roosevelt, raising additional questions about whether the safeguards in place to protect U.S. troops are sufficient.
The cases have highlighted the U.S. military's struggle to meet increasingly competing priorities: maintaining readiness for conflict and safeguarding servicemembers as the virus spreads globally.
In the latest case, the outbreak aboard the Kidd took place while it was on a counter-narcotics mission in the Caribbean. A sailor who had become sick was medically evacuated off the ship and later tested positive for the virus.
That prompted further testing of the crew that led to the discovery of additional positive cases.
A specialized medical team has been sent to the ship to carry out contact tracing and more onsite testing, it added.
But only so much can be done while the ship is at sea, so the Navy is halting the mission and bringing it back to port.
The crisis being triggered by the coronavirus is the biggest facing Navy leadership since two crashes in the Asia Pacific region in 2017 that killed 17 sailors.
Those incidents raised questions about Navy training and the pace of operations, prompting a congressional hearing and the removal of a number of officers.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/u-navy-recommends-reinstating-fired-191715870.html
It is still an open story to me. I glad he is back but the whole thing is just weird. Although these are weird times.
It was the CIC that ordered a review. He said the captain had an amazing record and didn't want to see his career ruined because he had a bad day. Said so in his daily presser over a week ago.
