How Penn State Stacks Up vs Michigan the last 4 seasons.

[Howie'81]

2016
Michigan 10 - 3, 3rd in East
Penn State 11 - 3, Big Ten Champion

2017
Michigan 8 - 5, 4th in East
Penn State 11 - 2, 2nd in East

2018
Michigan 10 - 3, 2nd in East
Penn State 9 - 4, 3rd in East

2019 (pre-Bowl Game)
Michigan 9 - 3, 3rd in East
Penn State 10 - 2, 2nd in East

Head to Head: Michigan - 2 wins; Penn State - 2 wins
Michigan Record vs Ohio State: Michigan 0 - 4 (Point differential 66 pts or 16.5 pts/game)
Penn State Record vs Ohio State: Penn State 1 - 3 (Point differential 10 pts or 2.5 pts/game)

In the last 4 seasons, PSU finished better than Michigan 3 times and the only time they didn't, they finished only 1 spot behind.

It's also worth noting that in those same 4 seasons vs Ohio State, Michigan has been nowhere near as close to beating Ohio State as Penn State, with Penn State doing it once. Michigan hasn't broken through.

I post this to point out that currently there is only one team that Penn State is chasing in the Big Ten and that's Ohio State. And looking at the last 4 year's results, the gap isn't as wide as many would like you to think. It's right there to see in the numbers. PSU has edged past Michigan in the Big Ten and I expect will continue to do so with our current coach at the helm. I also suspect that gap will continue to close vs Ohio State and Penn State will break through.

 

[Howie'81]

So if Ronnie Bell didn’t drop the tying touchdown this year and they potentially beat us, what does that do to your narrative?

We are a top perennial top 5-15 program, nothing wrong with that. I would expect Michigan will be in the same bucket if khakis can continue recruiting as he has.

If the cat hadn't stopped to crap, he would have caught the canary. I guess there weren't 140 or 150 other plays in the game you mentioned. That is a really chicken shit argument. Freirmuth and Hamler (twice) caught their TD passes, didn't they? What bullshit!

 

[psuro]

In all the efforts to being "elite", one constant has stood in the way of Penn State - Ohio State.

PSU can recruit just as well, can win games and bowl games - what Penn State cannot do, unlike Ohio State, is sustain losses and remain near the top. Using your 4 year window, OSU loses to Penn State, Iowa and Purdue yet still ends up in the CCG, playoffs and/or Rose Bowl/NY6 game. PSU loses to Pitt, MSU (twice) and Minny and cannot get past OSU (except in 2016).and does not have the level of success that OSU does when they have to sustain a loss.

This year, OSU was simply much better - and that is fine, they have done what they need to be at that level. What makes this year's loss so tough is that we shoulda/coulda won in the last two years. Coming into this year with a 3 game winning streak instead of a 2 game losing streak would have made this year's results a little more palpable.

I know what the obvious response will be here with regard to coaching, so have at it. I'll hang up now and listen.

 

[psuro]

So if Ronnie Bell didn’t drop the tying touchdown this year and they potentially beat us, what does that do to your narrative?

We are a top perennial top 5-15 program, nothing wrong with that. I would expect Michigan will be in the same bucket if khakis can continue recruiting as he has.

And if Clifford had hit Dotson deep, or Hamler's KO return had not been negated, then the final score would have been 42-21. "If" is a big word to use.

 

[sss]

So if Ronnie Bell didn’t drop the tying touchdown this year and they potentially beat us, what does that do to your narrative?

We are a top perennial top 5-15 program, nothing wrong with that. I would expect Michigan will be in the same bucket if khakis can continue recruiting as he has.

If the Hamler return to start the 2nd half had stood, PSU wins in a blowout. Two can play this game.

 

[Howie'81]

In all the efforts to being "elite", one constant has stood in the way of Penn State - Ohio State.

PSU can recruit just as well, can win games and bowl games - what Penn State cannot do, unlike Ohio State, is sustain losses and remain near the top. Using your 4 year window, OSU loses to Penn State, Iowa and Purdue yet still ends up in the CCG, playoffs and/or Rose Bowl/NY6 game. PSU loses to Pitt, MSU (twice) and Minny and cannot get past OSU (except in 2016).and does not have the level of success that OSU does when they have to sustain a loss.

This year, OSU was simply much better - and that is fine, they have done what they need to be at that level. What makes this year's loss so tough is that we shoulda/coulda won in the last two years. Coming into this year with a 3 game winning streak instead of a 2 game losing streak would have made this year's results a little more palpable.

I know what the obvious response will be here with regard to coaching, so have at it. I'll hang up now and listen.

I agree with you. I'm all in with Franklin and that's my only coaching comment.

 

[PSU87]

So if Ronnie Bell didn’t drop the tying touchdown this year and they potentially beat us, what does that do to your narrative?

We are a top perennial top 5-15 program, nothing wrong with that. I would expect Michigan will be in the same bucket if khakis can continue recruiting as he has.

Oh please. You win games by making plays. We made more than them. It doesn't cheapen the win at all.

Plus Dotson dropped a sure TD pass as well, and the holding on Hamler's kickoff return TD was pure unadulterated horse shiat.

 

[PSU2UNC]

So if Ronnie Bell didn’t drop the tying touchdown this year and they potentially beat us, what does that do to your narrative?

We are a top perennial top 5-15 program, nothing wrong with that. I would expect Michigan will be in the same bucket if khakis can continue recruiting as he has.

What if DH doesn't drop that pass against pitt in 2016? PSU makes the playoff. You can "what if" things all day. Michigan lost to a better team this year. And in 2017. Michigan has not competed against OSU recently. PSU has better than anyone else.

 

[danvillenit]

In all the efforts to being "elite", one constant has stood in the way of Penn State - Ohio State.

PSU can recruit just as well, can win games and bowl games - what Penn State cannot do, unlike Ohio State, is sustain losses and remain near the top. Using your 4 year window, OSU loses to Penn State, Iowa and Purdue yet still ends up in the CCG, playoffs and/or Rose Bowl/NY6 game. PSU loses to Pitt, MSU (twice) and Minny and cannot get past OSU (except in 2016).and does not have the level of success that OSU does when they have to sustain a loss.

This year, OSU was simply much better - and that is fine, they have done what they need to be at that level. What makes this year's loss so tough is that we shoulda/coulda won in the last two years. Coming into this year with a 3 game winning streak instead of a 2 game losing streak would have made this year's results a little more palpable.

I know what the obvious response will be here with regard to coaching, so have at it. I'll hang up now and listen.

We haven’t recruited as well as OSU and 2020 is the largest disparity of the past five years.

 

[harjeff]

So if Ronnie Bell didn’t drop the tying touchdown this year and they potentially beat us, what does that do to your narrative?

We are a top perennial top 5-15 program, nothing wrong with that. I would expect Michigan will be in the same bucket if khakis can continue recruiting as he has.

If Journey Brown doesn't drop the TD pass at the 2 yard line and PSU ties tOSU that may have been a whole different outcome as well. We can play this game all day that is why they play the games and have a final outcome and it is what it is! PSU is dangerously close to knocking off tOSU year after year and just need to finish the job. Michigan is not the gold standard anywhere as they have not won anything meaningful in about 25 years.

 

[Pittston-Lion]

So we are essentially the same program depending on where the game is played, and neither have much success against OSU. This is like PItt fans all year happy that they kept our game within 7.

 

[Waste Management Consultant]

So if Ronnie Bell didn’t drop the tying touchdown this year and they potentially beat us, what does that do to your narrative?

We are a top perennial top 5-15 program, nothing wrong with that. I would expect Michigan will be in the same bucket if khakis can continue recruiting as he has.

If my aunt had balls she’d be my uncle....At least before all the gender identity stuff.

 

[SUPERTODD]

somebody got triggered pretty easily. Why is it so hard for people like you to accept we won’t be a consistently elite team? We will remain in the tier of the Michigan’s and Oregon’s for the foreseeable future.

Because you post the same bullshit thread after thread and post after post. Why is it hard for people like you to accept we are already elite? We have double digit wins three out of the last four years. How many other teams in the country have done that?

 

[Howie'81]

somebody got triggered pretty easily. Why is it so hard for people like you to accept we won’t be a consistently elite team? We will remain in the tier of the Michigan’s and Oregon’s for the foreseeable future.

I feel bad for you. I really do. Because if this post is any indication of who you are, you're one miserable SOB.

 

[bdgan]

PSU can recruit just as well

Rivals team rankings last 5 years (2016-2020):

OSU 3rd, 2nd, 2nd, 21st, 3rd
Mich 4th, 4th, 24th, 10th, 10th
PSU 21st, 12th, 5th, 11th, 14th

PSU recruiting is close to Michigan but well behind OSU

 

[Howie'81]

11?

Not in the P5.

 

[bvillebaron]

In all the efforts to being "elite", one constant has stood in the way of Penn State - Ohio State.

PSU can recruit just as well, can win games and bowl games - what Penn State cannot do, unlike Ohio State, is sustain losses and remain near the top. Using your 4 year window, OSU loses to Penn State, Iowa and Purdue yet still ends up in the CCG, playoffs and/or Rose Bowl/NY6 game. PSU loses to Pitt, MSU (twice) and Minny and cannot get past OSU (except in 2016).and does not have the level of success that OSU does when they have to sustain a loss.

This year, OSU was simply much better - and that is fine, they have done what they need to be at that level. What makes this year's loss so tough is that we shoulda/coulda won in the last two years. Coming into this year with a 3 game winning streak instead of a 2 game losing streak would have made this year's results a little more palpable.

I know what the obvious response will be here with regard to coaching, so have at it. I'll hang up now and listen.

Won”t hear any bitching about the coaching here. Franklin and his staff aren’t perfect: no coach or staff is. But the amount of criticism he takes from some of the spoiled armchair “experts” on this board is so disproportionate to his and their performance that it seems clear to me many of these critics have an axe that grind. Brilliant coaching by Saban and his staff to have an illegal defensive substitution at the end of the game permitting Auburn to run out the clock by the way.

 

[Howie'81]

So we are essentially the same program depending on where the game is played, and neither have much success against OSU. This is like PItt fans all year happy that they kept our game within 7.

Listen, if we were losing to OSU, giving up 62 and 56 points in back to back games, you'd likely be the first guy on here screaming bloody murder and wanting Franklin's head. You know it and I know it, so don't tell me we haven't played OSU much tougher than Michigan. It's obvious that we have and in the 4 years I mention, we won one of them. 2 others we lost by a lousy single point. And even this year wasn't a blowout, though you probably predicted it would be. Then to compare what's being said here to what Pitt fans say? Puhleeez. Pretty sorry post.

 

[Howie'81]

P5? 9... or 10 If I didn't miss any


Penn State
Notre Dame
Ohio State
Oklahoma
Wisconsin
Washington
Alabama
Clemson
Georgia

and... maybe... Michigan

Pretty damn good list to be on. I hope a lot of guys who post here read this list. Of course the dunderheads will call it crap, because that's what most of them have between their ears.

 

[N&B4PSU]

2016
Michigan 10 - 3, 3rd in East
Penn State 11 - 3, Big Ten Champion

2017
Michigan 8 - 5, 4th in East
Penn State 11 - 2, 2nd in East

2018
Michigan 10 - 3, 2nd in East
Penn State 9 - 4, 3rd in East

2019 (pre-Bowl Game)
Michigan 9 - 3, 3rd in East
Penn State 10 - 2, 2nd in East

Head to Head: Michigan - 2 wins; Penn State - 2 wins
Michigan Record vs Ohio State: Michigan 0 - 4 (Point differential 66 pts or 16.5 pts/game)
Penn State Record vs Ohio State: Penn State 1 - 3 (Point differential 10 pts or 2.5 pts/game)

In the last 4 seasons, PSU finished better than Michigan 3 times and the only time they didn't, they finished only 1 spot behind.

It's also worth noting that in those same 4 seasons vs Ohio State, Michigan has been nowhere near as close to beating Ohio State as Penn State, with Penn State doing it once. Michigan hasn't broken through.

I post this to point out that currently there is only one team that Penn State is chasing in the Big Ten and that's Ohio State. And looking at the last 4 year's results, the gap isn't as wide as many would like you to think. It's right there to see in the numbers. PSU has edged past Michigan in the Big Ten and I expect will continue to do so with our current coach at the helm. I also suspect that gap will continue to close vs Ohio State and Penn State will break through.

 

[psuro]

Rivals team rankings last 5 years (2016-2020):

OSU 3rd, 2nd, 2nd, 21st, 3rd
Mich 4th, 4th, 24th, 10th, 10th
PSU 21st, 12th, 5th, 11th, 14th

PSU recruiting is close to Michigan but well behind OSU

Fair enough. I was off on the recruiting rankings. But, we still have played OSU as well as anyone else in the conference I believe my premise holds regarding Ohio State keeping Penn State from being "elite".

 

[N&B4PSU]

2016
Michigan 10 - 3, 3rd in East
Penn State 11 - 3, Big Ten Champion

2017
Michigan 8 - 5, 4th in East
Penn State 11 - 2, 2nd in East

2018
Michigan 10 - 3, 2nd in East
Penn State 9 - 4, 3rd in East

2019 (pre-Bowl Game)
Michigan 9 - 3, 3rd in East
Penn State 10 - 2, 2nd in East
.

Let's add these in (AP and coaches)

2016: UM pre-season 7, finished 10th
PS pre-season UR, finished 7th

2017: UM pre-season 11, finished UR
PS pre-season 6, finished 8th

2018: UM pre-season 14, finished 14
PS pre-season 10, finished 17

2019: UM pre-season 7, finished 17 (as of Dec 1)
PS pre-season 14/15, finished 11/12

Draw your own conclusions. In only 1 of the 4 years did UM finish ahead of us in the polls at year's end. In all 4 years we finished in the top 20 while UM went unranked in 2017. Both teams had their share of pre-season glory, so we shouldn't be banging the drum too heavily on the 'michigan is always picked ahead of us... i think that happens in the rags, though.

 

[Dave 10]

I live in Grosse Pointe Farms, Michigan where it seems every third or fourth house is flying a U of M flag. Add to this their attitude of moral and intellectual superiority and it becomes maddening.

However, as much as I dislike its football program I have to give U of M credit on how they run their team. A few years ago my wife and I were in Paris at the same time as its entire football team was there and we would see the players all over town. Their behavior and dress, good slacks and white polos with the damn M insignia, was fantastic and any school would have been proud to have them represent their university.