Hack was a warrior. The kid took so many hits he became punch drunk and probably lost something upstairs. I'll always remember him for his gunslinger attitude and toughness while getting his brains beat in
Hack aticle: It says his accuracy sux! Well, we all knew that. Right?
- Thread starter TheGLOV
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That is what your wife said about you!Love Hack. But he is no WIZARD OF CAMELOT!
Yeah.. Hack apologized and him and Franklin have certainly made peace with it. It's too bad fans can't. To me, that is petty. I'll wait to judge his NFL career past one rookie pre-season game. He was bad in that game. So what? He could've looked great and it wouldn't have mattered. PSU didn't just replace the qb in 2016.. McSorley became a very good qb over the course of the year in the new offense with the new coordinator with a team with full scholarships.. apples to oranges comparison. You can give McSorley credit without knocking Hack. Hack had some frustrating moments and took the blame and faced the media every week and then went back out there. He took the beatings, the criticism and handled it all about as classy as anyone could be expected to. He made some incredible throws during his time at PSU too.. The game winning drive at Rutgers, the game winning drive in Ireland, the comeback vs BC in the first bowl back. The 2013 Michigan 4 OT game, the OT loss vs OSU in 2014. He made some big plays with his arm over the years despite the less than ideal circumstances. And somebody in the NFL put their job on the line by drafting him in the 2nd round. You might be a great qb talent evaluator, but in my experience, the worst evaluators are posting on this board.. Hack might not make it in the NFL.. not many guys do, but the original post and the premise of the responses is not an analysis of his NFL ability but a knock on him personally. Again, that is petty to me..
You know what, that is a well reasoned post and perspective. I don't agree with it at all, but two dissenting Penn State fans can exist, no big deal. I am a jets fan, so if Hack turns into an NFL caliber starting QB I will be thrilled. Nothing personal against Hack, never was, but I just struggle to find a good QB watching him play. I watched every throw of his career at Penn State and yes, he had some NFL throws....its just he also had 20 Pee Wee football league throws a game. And I don't think is apples to oranges when comparing him and McSorley. McSorley performed better than Hack against Georgia in that bowl game, it was plain to see. McSorley also appears to be a better leader, but I will admit that is subjective. Either way, I do hope the guy succeeds, I just find it highly unlikely based on what I have seen.
The measure of success with honor isn't an NFL career, it never was
That article is really biased against Hack. It holds his completion rate at PSU his last two years (when he was running for his life and or getting pounded every play) against him, but excludes his redshirt freshman year when he was completing passes all over the field and everybody was forecasting he'd be a first round pick.
The truth is going to be somewhere in the middle.
The anecdote about not being able to throw the ball 10 yards -- ridiculous. Anybody in an NFL camp can throw the ball all over the field with more accuracy than you and I can even imagine.
No way to know at this point if Hack will ever be an NFL QB.
But if he isn't, that's no great shame anyway -- in any given year there are about 20 human beings in the entire world who are able to play that position at a mastery level.
Hack's chances are no worse than a lot of other young backup QBs around the NFL trying to learn the game.
The guy has character, he has physical courage, he has intelligence, he has an arm. The only thing he lacks is quick feet. Even if he doesn't make it with the Jets, consider that it's the JETS. They will almost certainly have a crappy O-line again. Tom Brady probably couldn't be successful playing for the Jets
58% completion percentage his freshman year is not "completing balls all over the field" material. I think that would have put him at about 64th out of 112 D1 QB's that year. He did play admirably his freshman year though and his arrow was certainly pointing up...point taken.
He was really good his FR year. We didn't imagine it. His accuracy on deep balls was very good. For sure, it helped Hack that he had Arob to throw to. But it also helped ARob that Hack could put the ball where he wanted 50 yards away. Hack made some big league throws across the field, dropping some balls in at the sideline.
But yeah, he could have lapses of concentration and mis-grip or short-arm balls. He was better 20 yards+ than he was on short throws. But that is not that unusual -- a lot of QBs have more trouble with the quick little timing throws and the little touch throws over linebackers.
I just think it was ridiculous to judge Hack based on 2014 and 2015 without considering that PSU's O-line was TERRIBLE. He wasn't just not getting time to set up, he was getting pounded almost every single pass he threw. PSU had the least running back talent that they have had in the 50 years I've been a fan.
The PSU offense couldn't even attempt anything deep because they couldn't protect Hack for more than 1.5 seconds -- so the only passes they could throw were quick outs.
I think Hack was a hero for not whining while he was going through that. It had to set back his development. He probably developed all kinds of bad habits from never knowing whether he would have protection (and most of the time he didn't). All the stuff that McSorley did so well the latter part of last year, stepping into the pocket while looking downfield, Hackenburg never would have even had the chance to do that stuff because he would have had multiple defenders on him inside of 2 seconds. Not to take anything away from Trace -- Trace is going to own every PSU passing record before he's done. But we would have a completely different idea about Hack if he had this OL and this group of running backs.
And BTW completion percentage is almost totally useless as a statistic. You can complete 80% of your passes and lose every single game because every pass is a dump for 1-2 yards and you take a bunch of sacks. Look at the QBs at the top of the list for completion percentage and that is a lot of QBs I would not want on my team.
McSorley is a great example of how useless completion percentage is. The guy throws a lot of balls away instead of taking sacks; he throws deep downfield where completion percentage is lower. I hope McSorley cuts down on INTs this year, I hope he can be a little sharper at the start of games. But if his competion percentage stays at 54% or something "low" and he keeps throwing away balls to avoid sacks, that's fine with me.
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Jalen Hurts last year.
Hurts stats:
http://www.cfbstats.com/2016/player/8/1077804/index.html
Hack stats:
http://www.cfbstats.com/2013/player/539/1056939/index.html
LOL...62.8% with the best talent in the game.
But I'll admit, he had a better true freshman season. Who else?
THIS is completely true. Completion percentage is nice but not the be-all and end-all.
Here's a quarterback to consider. Lifetime completion percentage - 50%. His career record was 62-63 and he has 47 more INT's than TD's. Plus he could not outrun my mother.
You're thinking - this guy is a stiff. What a bum. Who threw up terrible numbers like that? Rick Mirer? Joey Harrington? Tony Banks?
Wrong, wrong, and wrong. But you can go out to Canton and see his bust any time you like. The guy with the terrible numbers is Joe Namath.
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The funny thing is that O'Brien probably would have benched him for McSorley his junior year. O'Brien was not playing the guy who was loyal or who had the higher ranking coming out of high school. He plays the guy he thinks gives him the best chance to win that day.
I am not sure what point you are trying to make. Who would have replaced Hack had BOB stayed? McSorley committed to CJF at Vandy and wouldn't even be here. McS doesn't match the BOB offense, just as Hack doesn't match the one currently being deployed by PSU under JoeMo.
Obviously there are billions of variables that could be used to make a point. The point I am making is that if Hackenberg had played like he did his junior year under O'Brien and McSorley had been in the wings he would have given him a shot.
If there is no scandal or sanctions, and BOB chooses to stay because there is a promising future in Happy Valley. We most likely recruit another top flight QB in the same class as Hack, and Hack eventually loses his starting position, and gets benched.
I know, a lot of ifs, but Hack wasnt good enough after his Freshman year to continue as the starter. You got to expect a better Oline with this scenario, but people have revisionist history. Hack had ZERO pocket awareness, and took a lot of unnecessary sacks, that's why he'll bomb out as a pro.
Well, McSorley is not a pro-style QB. Hack had, his jr year, the worst offensive line in PSU history, a TE that couldn't catch (Gesicki) and two RB's who wouldn't sniff the top three on today's team. Thank God for another true freshman, #26, that year.
Offensive Depth:
WR, So Godwin, So Hamilton
TE, So Gesicki, Wilkerson, Zanillato
LT, Paris Palmer
G Mahon (who got hurt)
C, Managiro
RG, Gaia
RT, Nelson (So)
WR Thompkins (Fr) Polk (Fr)
RB, Lynch, Allen, Scott
Almost all of those were first year starters, after Hack. Also, by the way, Hack is 9 months older than McSorley.
Quite a stretch. Hack was a five star recruit, perhaps the top pocket passer in his class. Perhaps BOB would have recruited an offensive lineman in that class.
But lets not speculate, here are the Olineman recruiting in 2012's
class:
Gaia
Stanko
2011?
mangiro
Donavan Smith
Ryan Nowicki
Anthony Alosi
2013?
Nelson (who can't stay healthy)
Parker Cothran, (since moved to DT)
Of those, Nelson shows promise (but can't stay healthy). D-Smith is was really good but left after three years. Nobody else was worth very much.
This is all psyco babble! Hack sucked as a Div 1 QB. He gets worse with every passing year, and the Jets won't be able to hide him anymore. Wouldn't be surprised if they release him.
Obviously this is all hypothetical. There is no way to definitively know what O'Brien would have done. That said, he wants to win. I have little doubt that he would have not stuck with a QB and scheme that was performing as poorly as they were in '15.
I will concede to you that the line was brutal. Worst I have ever seen.
What isnt hypothetical, is O Brien, with limited schollies, brought in no one to protect his qbs and then left, leaving Franklin holding an empty bag. How did that work out? It left Hack, taking a beating and honestly regressing a bit. Who wouldnt? Franklin scrambling, trying to patchwork a line. Tom Brady couldnt have succeeded in that situation.
I just don't think you can blame Hack in any way. I was at the 2015 Temple game. It was the most awful OL play I have ever seen. Temple figured out by the 2nd quarter that PSU was completely, totally unprepared to handle blitzes of any kind. So they blitzed every play and got to Hack every play.
It's a tremendous testament to Hack's toughness that he even survived that game and kept playing all season.
But he wasn't really playing QB in that game. He was playing tackling dummy for the Temple D.
So yeah, of course, he was not a very good QB that year (or 2015) but the entire offense couldn't execute. They had no speed or size at running back, so they had zero play action threat, they had receivers who couldn't get open for quick routes. They couldn't do timing plays. You could have put any number of NFL QBs on to that PSU team and they would have struggled just the same.
If PSU had a running QB in 2015 and 2016, a Justin Fields or McSorley, they might have had a better chance given that they had no running game and no pass protection. But even then, I'm not sure it would have made much difference.
Really, looking back now, it's amazing to me that PSU managed to win 7 games in 2015 and made it to a bowl game. That was half a football team -- some really good players but just not enough of them.
It's a tremendous testament to Hack's toughness that he even survived that game and kept playing all season.
But he wasn't really playing QB in that game. He was playing tackling dummy for the Temple D.
So yeah, of course, he was not a very good QB that year (or 2015) but the entire offense couldn't execute. They had no speed or size at running back, so they had zero play action threat, they had receivers who couldn't get open for quick routes. They couldn't do timing plays. You could have put any number of NFL QBs on to that PSU team and they would have struggled just the same.
If PSU had a running QB in 2015 and 2016, a Justin Fields or McSorley, they might have had a better chance given that they had no running game and no pass protection. But even then, I'm not sure it would have made much difference.
Really, looking back now, it's amazing to me that PSU managed to win 7 games in 2015 and made it to a bowl game. That was half a football team -- some really good players but just not enough of them.
You are becoming a human excuse maker for Hack. Good grief. Yeah he obviously has some great physical attributes. He also has some HUGE flaws in his game.
I personally am not sure the flaws are surmountable for success at the NFL level, but I guess we will see this year. I wish him the best, but I also know what my eyes have seen.
This topic is really getting old.
If you look at the greatest QBs in NFL history, they all shared a couple attributes that are nowhere to be found in the instant case being discussed... First among others, would be extreme accuracy - "pinpoint accuracy" including hitting receivers in stride enabling tremendous economy and efficiency from their offensive production. #2 would be a either a "quick release" delivery or the ability to extend plays with your feet. Coupled with the accuracy and ability to extend plays via quick release, feet or both is a combination of tremendous pocket presence and the ability to dynamically read defenses....go through progressions and find the receiver / match-up / outlet that is going to break open given the situation.
As you've pointed out, the most important shared attributes of the greatest QBs to ever play the game do not exist in the case being discussed (quite the opposite in fact, especially in regards to accuracy which was the primary OP topic), but some don't let facts get in the way of their absurd fantasies....
I agree....I just can't believe people on a PSU board continually post to tear down a kid that came to a troubled program when he could have gone to any university in the USA.
Sorry, the Temple loss was on Hack. Already up 10-0, he twice badly overthrew wide open receivers that would have extended the lead to 17-0 & 24-0.
Then at the end of the 3rd quarter tied 10-10, he threw an awful interception in the flat that set up Temple at the PSU 2 yd line. One play later, 17-10 Temple and it was game set and match.
Perhaps the worst game of his PSU career.
That's enough Hack bashing/defending, we're beating a dead horse. ... Let's discuss Pat Devlin.
chicken or egg.
It's a wonder he was still standing and conscious, let alone able to read defenses or throw the ball, after the pounding he took in the 2nd and 3rd quarters.
I wonder if Franklin's been asked about this game -- in hindsight Hack probably should have been taken out so someone else could have a turn at being a punching bag for the Temple D.
It might really have worked out better if they installed a permanent wildcat and let Belton be the QB for the season. I.e. snap the ball and let Belton run for his life every play. It would have been entertaining. Still, they probably won more games with Hack throwing the ball.
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My point isn't whether Hack was a great QB or a bad QB in 2014 and 2015. My point is that it's impossible to judge the performance of someone who is getting concussed every other play.
Heck you might have thought Barkley was an ineffective running back in the early part of 2015 because he would have been hit in the backfield almost before the handoff.
If you can't block and pick up blitzes, your position players really don't matter too much.
Heck you might have thought Barkley was an ineffective running back in the early part of 2015 because he would have been hit in the backfield almost before the handoff.
If you can't block and pick up blitzes, your position players really don't matter too much.
Yep, and Tennessee won a national championship with Tee Martin, the year after Peyton Manning left.
Great QBs have to be able to adjust to situations. Hack never really showed any ability to do that. At least not that I ever saw. It was like ground hog day and very frustrating to watch. I'm sure it was frustrating for him too.
Let it go.
You realize that the 2001 PSU team was complete garbage and that if you actually look at supporting casts Mill's Freshman year he had nothing like the O-Line or Wr's or coaching that Hack had...not even close.
Yeah "adjust to situations." I guess you're saying Hack was expected to complete passes when he was flat on his back with 300 pounds of Temple defensive tackle on top of him.
Hey of course Hack was not great at times.
But look at what happened to his play from 2013 to 2014. One season he's anointed as the best young QB in college football, a sure fire first rounder. The next season he can't hit a barn.
Why do you think that happened? Do you think it's because Hack just inexplicably forgot how to throw footballs and read defenses in the spring/summer of 2014?
Or might there be another reason? Hmmmm. Might it have something to do with the fact that PSU went into 2014 and 2015 pretty much without a college-level offensive line? Why don't we ponder this mystery.
Of course, if Zach Mills (pre shoulder injury) were on the squad in 2015, he would have been better suited than Hack to not having any pass protection. If McSorley were ready he would have been a much more effective QB than Hack simply because he could have run for his life and made some things happen. Hack isn't that kind of QB. He is a traditional pro-style pocket passer and that just could not be done at PSU in 2014 and 2015. But blaming Hack for being a pro-style passer and not being able to magically convert himself into a run-pass QB is kind of silly. It's like blaming Derek Fox for not being able to run stride for stride with Mario Manningham. It's not in his game.
It's pretty simple. He was really good for a true Frosh, but even at that the media and fan base way overrated him. Imagine that!?!?! And he really never got any better at his deficiencies while at PSU, and apparently still hasn't made much progress despite a ton of work with the best of the best.
How long are you going to blame that o line for the fact that he isn't an accurate passer? Yeah he was very often under a lot of pressure, but he also missed a ton of easy throws when he had plenty of time to get the throw off. He also regularly missed guys in stride, minimizing YAC.
Go back and really look at his freshman film. He had a very nice year, but he really wasn't all that accurate then either. What do his frosh numbers look like without Allen Robinson?
I like and appreciate the kid whether he makes it in the NFL or not. Maybe he cracked the code this off season. I hope so.
And I can't believe I'm still participating in this conversation. I'm out.
don't forget the time when the oline let him get sacked with T only rushed two people.
In 2014, Penn State averaged 2.9 yards per rush. That was 121st out of 125 FBS teams. Worst Power 5 team in the country by a large margin. Shall we blame Hack for having an accuracy problem on handoffs? Or maybe it was something else?
That same year PSU ranked 61st out of 125 in passing yards per game. So despite having almost the worst running game in the country, PSU managed to throw the ball slightly better than average.
All I'm saying is it was post sanctions, it was crazy times, it's really amazing looking back that they somehow managed winning seasons in both 2014 and 2015.
So basically I would be supportive of Hack and anybody else on those teams. They played hard and almost never quit, and they kept the flame alive. Regardless of what happens with Hack and his pro career, he deserves nothing but honor and respect from PSU fans.
Yeah and the times when they got so confused they blocked each other.
And remember the special teams. So many walk-ons, basically if PSU couldn't tackle a kick returner with the first wave, he was going to score because PSU had almost no one on kick coverage with Division 1 speed.
Crazy times. Someday -- not yet -- it will be funny.
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