FC: Beta Theta Pi hearing marathon (to be continued)
- Thread starter mn78psu83
- Start date
Yet another case were the most relevant and important folks to place in the "DEFENDANT BOX"...... were ignored.
It's kinda' become a trend in our State.
All previous reports made it seem like he fell appeared dead and no one called the for help until the next morning. However the video says he keeps getting up for hours after subsequent falls. Only when he doesn't move for 40 min do they call 911. Media made it seem like he was lifeless for hours and no one did anything. PAs got a PHD in how to taint a jury pool these kids don't stand a chance.
It's a tragic case.
I'm certain, one day, I, too, will watch the video. I don't believe for one moment they wanted to kill the kid.
You got drunk teenagers and 20-somethings having a drinking party. A kid fell. Kids fall when they are drunk.
The 40 minutes in the morning, I'd have to watch the video before commenting
It's unfortunate no one had the wherewithal to call 911 sooner. Ifor it were my kid or brother, I'd be pissed, too. But, I was young once at Penn State. I remember (barely) quite a number of Thursday's stumbling home from Mr C's after $1 Long Island drinks ran up a tab close to, well...I'd rather not say.
I remember (barely) stepping over drunks sleeping on the floor at parties, too. What was I supposed to do? Wake them up? At 4am?
On an aside, if every frat/sorority "party" were on video, every mom and dad would be outraged. Why is this a "shock"?
I was on the "Welcome Wagon" for incoming freshman. Met an incoming girl and her parents who wanted to know if it was "safe" around Pollock. I assured them it was.
8 hours later, she was humping a kid who lived 3 doors down from me. They were both sober.
So much for my assurances.
the father of tim piazza now says the fraternity members were all laughing and acting like a fraternity reunion which i really find hard to believe.
It's a sad situation all around and no one is blameless in this disgusting event.
The fact of the matter is that Tim Piazza didn't deserve to die. Someone should have called 911, no question. The "brothers" deserve to go to court and be punished accordingly by the legal process.
However, another fact is that if Tim Piazza didn't fall or was otherwise uninjured, he too would have been perpetuating this disgusting behavior. At the end of the day, no one forced him to join a frat, no one forced him to join this frat, no one forced him to drink to that level of excess, and no one forced him to participate in hazing rituals. All of those things were conscious choices by Tim Piazza.
The fact of the matter is that Tim Piazza didn't deserve to die. Someone should have called 911, no question. The "brothers" deserve to go to court and be punished accordingly by the legal process.
However, another fact is that if Tim Piazza didn't fall or was otherwise uninjured, he too would have been perpetuating this disgusting behavior. At the end of the day, no one forced him to join a frat, no one forced him to join this frat, no one forced him to drink to that level of excess, and no one forced him to participate in hazing rituals. All of those things were conscious choices by Tim Piazza.
This prosecution is going to get very dicey when the defense starts focusing in on the actions of each individual defendant. No doubt, there were defendants around early in the night when Piazza was just a drunk on the couch and no one had any particular reason to think that he would fall on his head--probably a situation that 95% of college students encounter. If it turns out that the fatal injury was sustained in the early morning fall that apparently no one witnessed, then I think that the prosecution encounters another problem trying to link any individual defendant to the death--hard to react to what you don't know about. I guess the argument is that these things should have been foreseen, but again, a drunk on the couch doesn't seem to be enough to trigger a duty to babysit the guy until the next morning.
What previous reports have you read? The timelines released discussed in great length his struggles that night and early morning, including his visible convulsions.
The media is not at fault here - the dumbass "brothers" of Beta are
We'll see what happens. I offered my statement with no thoughts on how I see the trial playing out. In the end, both the "brothers" and Piazza made conscious decisions to do stupid things.
I wonder if it finally came out during yesterday's hearing that Piazza's first big fall down the stairwell occurred as a result of him stumbling over two girls seated at the top of the stairs. Stacy Parks Miller, and the media, conveniently.omitted to mention that.
I'm still how unclear how relevant this first fall is. I guess they want to say that he sustained a spleen injury, but on the other hand, I think that they are saying that he died from head trauma, not a spleen injury. The prosecution seems to want to allude to nonspecific head trauma, but my gut tells me that this is obfuscation and the fatal injury was sustained in the second fall. I guess the first fall is evidence of intoxication, but jeese, dozens of college kids get drunk fall down every weekend--putting him on a couch doesn't seem unreasonable without something more.
bwifan
Well-Known Member
Saw on the news here last night that the last part of the video was shown in the courtroom and needless to say it was beyond moving and emotional in the courtroom. Be interested to see how and if the jury is able to move past that and hear the defense facts and witnesses. Or are they just not able to get the last minutes of his life on film out of their minds and subconsciously say they are guilty and someone has to pay
Just remember, that when the defense slowed down the video of cops beating Rodney King, and dissected each defendants' actions, the cops were acquitted.
I also heard that the DA spent quite a bit of time discussing the fact that the fraternity brothers didn't attempt CPR or stabilize him, yet when the arriving officer came he didn't do anything and the EMS folks didn't attempt this as well nor give him oxygen.....
A
anon_xdc8rmuek44eq
Guest
Should be good news for the brothers. The last person at Penn State to kick the can down the road ended up a millionaire at the expense of everyone else.
Perhaps the 2 girls have ties to The Second Mile...thus no prosecutorial interest in them.
Glad I wasn't there. I don't know how to do that stuff. I'd be headed up the river already.
What's the likelihood of that? Pretty far fetched.
Clearly, PSU is going to need to set up rules, regulations, a compliance program and punishments for unsafe phone use. Rule number 1 is obviously that you should not snapchat while sitting on the stairs. One new Dean with a small support staff should suffice to handle this issue.
Phones are freaking dangerous!
I find this disappointing. Mr Piazza needs to realize that his son was probably very similar to these members. It's an awful case but if this happened a year later his son is probably on trial as well.
I listened to the attorney for the family today. What you describe isn't quite accurate. They prevented a member from seeking assistance for the kid and then put together a coverup at the end. These kids really screwed up royally.
That's what the attorney for the victims family said on the Smerconish show this morning. The frat boys also showed no remorse in court while everyone else was crying apparently. Jury should love that.
That's just BS. Whether someone cries or not has nothing to do with their guilt or innocence. Just curious....what exactly does one do to show remorse at this point?
The spleen injury was still significant to his overall condition. When the brain is under increased pressure as his was maintaining an adequate blood pressure is critical in terms of allowing the brain to remain perfused with blood. The blood loss and shock from the spleen injury would accelerated the damage to his brain regardless of when he suffered the intracranial hemorrhage. I am not aware if the ME made any determination of whether the first fall or one of the subsequent falls was responsible for the majority of his traumatic brain injury. The most likely scenario is that it was a cumulative effect of multiple blows to the brain suffered through his falls.
I am sure the defense will try to make it seem that him tripping over the girls on the stairs was the only reason he fell initially but it is hard to believe that his level of intoxication did not play a role. In addition if he was not so inebriated he would have likely been better able to protect himself if he tripped on the stairs instead of taking the brunt of the force of his fall to his head and abdomen.
The bottom line is the Beta brothers illegal engaged in providing alcohol to a minor in the context of a hazing ritual. The result of that dangerous level of intoxication contributed to his injuries and therefore they are criminally responsible. If it was just a party and Tim Piazza chose to consume excessive amounts of alcohol on his own I would be more sympathetic to the Beta brothers.
I have sympathy for his family due to their tremendous loss but I am not sympathetic to the scorched earth approach they and their attorney are taking towards blaming Penn State for this tragedy. PSU and the national fraternity already had policies against this type of behavior. Those primarily responsible are the Beta brothers.
I was in the courtroom for the entirety of the hearing. Must confess I left with a different impression than the one with which I entered the courtroom.
In my view, the prosecution has overcharged many of the brothers.
After the hearing, one of the lawyers was asked if his client should have called 911. His response reminded me of previous experience. He said he wished the brother that the prosecution made the hero would have called 911. Sound familiar?
The hearing has been continued until July 10th (and 11th if necessary).
In my view, the prosecution has overcharged many of the brothers.
After the hearing, one of the lawyers was asked if his client should have called 911. His response reminded me of previous experience. He said he wished the brother that the prosecution made the hero would have called 911. Sound familiar?
The hearing has been continued until July 10th (and 11th if necessary).
I will be curious to see how Frank Fina defends this case, given his "strategery" as a former prosecutor and his techniques while at the OAG. I did read that Jim Piazza had harsh words for lawyer Andrew Shubin and his comment about "cruel and unusual punishment" and continuing the hearing into the night on Monday.
Tom Kline could very well be capable of destroying these other lawyers professionally. Kline also blasted Dr. Barron and his administration for not having someone present at the hearing.
Tom Kline could very well be capable of destroying these other lawyers professionally. Kline also blasted Dr. Barron and his administration for not having someone present at the hearing.
I can't say I agree with everything you & fellow alumni trustees do....but I greatly appreciate your willingness to attend something like this. I wish more would do it. Hopefully, you won't have to continue to attend such proceedings in the future.
So...if another pledge were at some point to stand up and testify that he wasn't forced to drink, then what?
