Edinboro Open

El-Jefe

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Jul 27, 2012
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Oh I know we wanted Crookham. He was set on Lehigh for a long time. Priorities are academics and it's just so close to home (and Santoro is a fantastic developer) But it's hard to say they aren't at least on the same level as prospects at this point though.
Agreed, at this point they're probably comparable -- with the caveat that we really have no idea about Crookham because we haven't seen him. But Levi has made those kinds of strides.

In a sense it's a shame Crookham didn't go somewhere B10, if only because he and Mendez might never meet other than luck of the draw at nationals.
 

82bordeaux

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Nov 19, 2019
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It'll take some doing to be considered better than the teams that had Hall, Joseph, Nickal, Nolan, and Retherford.

Those five had over 200 pins.
Someday you'll post that it will take some doing for Bartlett, SVN, Haines, Facundo, and Barr to be considered better than RBY, Lee, Starocci, Brooks, Dean, and Kerkvliet.
It's what we do. Lather, Rinse, Repeat.
 

mcpat

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Mar 13, 2021
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Who was the most accomplished recruit of the Cael era upon arrival? Mark Hall? David Taylor?
 

royboy

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Nov 9, 2001
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Levi's trajectory is a good example of why Cael waits a bit until he really contacts kids often. Crookham was viewed as a totally different level of a prospect than him at one point. Same grade and Crookham I believe majored him at states. Crookham was way more physically developed early.
Just looked it up.

Crookham 9-0 Major over Levi at 126 Regions 2020
Crookham 7-2 Dec. over Levi 126 State Finals 2020

 

Callthestall

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Mar 14, 2016
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Cael was in touch with Crookham early. It didn't work out for PSU.

True that Levi has come way up the curve in the past 2 years. But hard to tell where Crookham would've been -- he missed last year for injury and opted out this year.
I might be wrong but wasn't Crookham deemed ineligible last year when he transferred.???
His father and and ND coach Veres had a difference in opinion on some issues.
 

Pitchfork Rebel

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Feb 20, 2020
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Someday you'll post that it will take some doing for Bartlett, SVN, Haines, Facundo, and Barr to be considered better than RBY, Lee, Starocci, Brooks, Dean, and Kerkvliet.
It's what we do. Lather, Rinse, Repeat.
I don't think so. When you think that Nolf and Nickal were pinning just about half their opponents, you realize just how lucky we were to see them.

I'm just glad I appreciated those guys when they were wearing blue and white.

Given that 30 matches is really long season now, I'm guessing the Mills/Schalles levels are unattainable though.
 

82bordeaux

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I don't think so. When you think that Nolf and Nickal were pinning just about half their opponents, you realize just how lucky we were to see them.

I'm just glad I appreciated those guys when they were wearing blue and white.

Given that 30 matches is really long season now, I'm guessing the Mills/Schalles levels are unattainable though.
You are right about the total pin numbers not being met in the future due to scheduled matches. However, when you look at the stats, guys like Starocci and Brooks are on very similar trajectories as Nolf and Nickal in terms of dominance. They just don't get the pin numbers those guys did. So yeah, they were generational talents in the art of pinning. But I would expect Carter and Aaron to put up some bigger pinning numbers in the next couple of years.
 
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Cowbell Man

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Feb 2, 2002
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I will have to ask. I don't think I've heard the stories of guys incorporating alcohol in their weight cutting. Though my dad wouldn't have been one of them, I'm sure he knew if it was happening. And as you all know, weight cutting was definitely way more extreme back then so I wouldn't be surprised at all. I have heard stories of binge eating and then purging. So perhaps he was just omitting the alcohol part when talking to us kids.
Let’s just go with they were drinking beer. I feel like the sentence just ends there. Lol.
 
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El-Jefe

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It'll take some doing to be considered better than the teams that had Hall, Joseph, Nickal, Nolan, and Retherford.

Those five had over 200 pins.

That depends on how one measures the team. If RBY returns next year, we'll have at least 3 returning champs, 10 qualifiers (a first under Cael), and an outside shot at 10 AAs.

It's perhaps not likely, but not inconceivable for that team to have Cael's highest team score at nationals.
 

nerfstate

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Oct 10, 2017
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It'll take some doing to be considered better than the teams that had Hall, Joseph, Nickal, Nolan, and Retherford.

Those five had over 200 pins.
I figured pitchfork’s name is Nolan, and he was pulling a Minnesota/Jammenz. Speaking of, where is the old coot?
 

dunkej01

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You are right about the total pin numbers not being met in the future due to scheduled matches. However, when you look at the stats, guys like Starocci and Brooks are on very similar trajectories as Nolf and Nickal in terms of dominance. They just don't get the pin numbers those guys did. So yeah, they were generational talents in the art of pinning. But I would expect Carter and Aaron to put up some bigger pinning numbers in the next couple of years.
Not getting their due may also be that they don't have that crazy fan moment, yet.

Yes national champs, but imar or pin at carver.

They are both workman like so far.
 

STAND with PRIDE

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Sep 9, 2018
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Carter handled Foca fairly easily at the Edinboro Open.
Carter beat Army's Ben Harvey at the Scuffle. Harvey was a 2x R12 when they met.

He also beat 2 other returning qualifiers (RIchards and Carey), plus a 4th guy who qualified that year (Siegrist). And he beat Foca.
OK OK, no need to gang up on a guy 😣
 

ZepGraffiti

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Aug 21, 2015
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That depends on how one measures the team. If RBY returns next year, we'll have at least 3 returning champs, 10 qualifiers (a first under Cael), and an outside shot at 10 AAs.

It's perhaps not likely, but not inconceivable for that team to have Cael's highest team score at nationals.
Technically, there's 4 champs and 11 returning NQs this year. But the point remains.
 
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McScoreley

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On Willie's early 2023 projection, we're up by 30 with 0 points at 133 or 157 right now. But he's bullish on some of our young guys

Howard - 5th
Bartlett - 2nd
SVN - 6th
Facundo - 5th

I don't think any of those projections are ridiculous with what clears out and how our guys develop, maybe Bartlett is a bit generous but he will be a different animal at 141. Now that we know what we know about Levi, I think we can ask for some points at 157 (Paddy is 5th) .... if RBY comes back ....
 
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RoarLions1

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You are right about the total pin numbers not being met in the future due to scheduled matches. However, when you look at the stats, guys like Starocci and Brooks are on very similar trajectories as Nolf and Nickal in terms of dominance. They just don't get the pin numbers those guys did. So yeah, they were generational talents in the art of pinning. But I would expect Carter and Aaron to put up some bigger pinning numbers in the next couple of years.
Many will remember the pin "count", but with number of bouts per wrestler going down, a better metric for falls is to look at the percentage. From the PSWC website;
#NameSeasonsCareer FallsCareer Matches%
1​
1936-1938​
19​
31​
61.3%​
2​
2016-2019​
60​
119​
50.4%​
3​
2016-2019​
59​
122​
48.4%​
4​
1925-1926​
9​
20​
45.0%​
5​
1941-1943​
17​
39​
43.6%​
6​
1993-1994​
28​
65​
43.1%​
7​
2014-2018​
53​
126​
42.1%​
8​
1942-1946​
15​
37​
40.5%​
9​
1959-1961​
20​
50​
40.0%​
9​
2011-2014​
32​
80​
40.0%​
9​
1948-1950​
8​
20​
40.0%​
12​
1954-1956​
19​
48​
39.6%​
13​
1952-1954​
16​
41​
39.0%​
14​
2011-2014​
53​
137​
38.7%​
 

ChillW

Well-Known Member
Dec 18, 2019
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a lot to feel good about.

i actually came back to add starocci to my comparison. more than any move in that match, i was impressed with his poise. he just kept coming forward and never looked nervous or afraid to lose. that was also what was most impressive about starocci last year. his poise and match management were way beyond his years, and frankly his skill. now we're seeing him continue to add to that repertoire and get to legs more consistently.
L
 

86PSUPaul

Well-Known Member
Aug 17, 2017
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Many will remember the pin "count", but with number of bouts per wrestler going down, a better metric for falls is to look at the percentage. From the PSWC website;
#NameSeasonsCareer FallsCareer Matches%
1​
1936-1938​
19​
31​
61.3%​
2​
2016-2019​
60​
119​
50.4%​
3​
2016-2019​
59​
122​
48.4%​
4​
1925-1926​
9​
20​
45.0%​
5​
1941-1943​
17​
39​
43.6%​
6​
1993-1994​
28​
65​
43.1%​
7​
2014-2018​
53​
126​
42.1%​
8​
1942-1946​
15​
37​
40.5%​
9​
1959-1961​
20​
50​
40.0%​
9​
2011-2014​
32​
80​
40.0%​
9​
1948-1950​
8​
20​
40.0%​
12​
1954-1956​
19​
48​
39.6%​
13​
1952-1954​
16​
41​
39.0%​
14​
2011-2014​
53​
137​
38.7%​
No way Zain can be 7th with a 42% pin rate, he just stalls on top! ;)
 

NittanyChris

Well-Known Member
Dec 3, 2001
8,877
8,714
1
Many will remember the pin "count", but with number of bouts per wrestler going down, a better metric for falls is to look at the percentage. From the PSWC website;
#NameSeasonsCareer FallsCareer Matches%
1​
1936-1938​
19​
31​
61.3%​
2​
2016-2019​
60​
119​
50.4%​
3​
2016-2019​
59​
122​
48.4%​
4​
1925-1926​
9​
20​
45.0%​
5​
1941-1943​
17​
39​
43.6%​
6​
1993-1994​
28​
65​
43.1%​
7​
2014-2018​
53​
126​
42.1%​
8​
1942-1946​
15​
37​
40.5%​
9​
1959-1961​
20​
50​
40.0%​
9​
2011-2014​
32​
80​
40.0%​
9​
1948-1950​
8​
20​
40.0%​
12​
1954-1956​
19​
48​
39.6%​
13​
1952-1954​
16​
41​
39.0%​
14​
2011-2014​
53​
137​
38.7%​
Wow. Thanks for sharing. The fact that over half his matches ended in pins is simply astounding. And Nickal just a hair behind. I’ll say it again, we are spoiled!
 
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PAgeologist

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Jan 8, 2017
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Lilly, PA
Wow. Thanks for sharing. The fact that over half his matches ended in pins is simply astounding. And Nickal just a hair behind. I’ll say it again, we are spoiled!
In my limited wrestling knowledge, there was nobody better than Nolf in catching guys for a pin. No opponent was safe in any move he made against Nolf.
 
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PAgeologist

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Jan 8, 2017
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Lilly, PA
That Nickel guy was pretty good at that too. But the best ever in my opinion?
Wade Schalles.
Look familiar Myles?
Bo was certainly pretty good at pinning guys. It just seemed Nolf was more inventive.

I am too young to have ever watched Schalles. I know he was an all time great by reading discussions on here. I'll have to see if I can dig up some stuff on YouTube.
 

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