BYE Week ... and a few thoughts!

Callthestall

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Mar 14, 2016
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Seeding formula:

Head-to-head competition — 25 percent
Quality wins — 20 percent
Coaches Ranking — 15 percent
Results against common opponents — 10 percent
RPI — 10 percent
Qualifying event placement — 10 percent
Win % — 10 percent

There are seven categories used to weigh all 33 qualifiers against each other. Essentially, these numbers are run head-to-head against the entirety of the field 32 times over, which means that every qualifier is assigned a rank within the seeding matrix.

So this sets a baseline for the seeding committee but is not always final. A wrestler can only be argued up or down if he is within three points of the other wrestler. This allows some level of subjectivity and might catch things the formula could miss.

Berge wouldn’t have a coaches ranking or RPI so he gets 0 points for 25% of the criteria.
What surprises me is that, NCAA doesn't use prior year(s) tournament results for seeding. You would think that would help the kid that was injured most of the year to be placed in a slot other than dropped to bottom.
 

Callthestall

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To follow up with above comment. Were the rules on seeding different years ago.?
I think of the Carlton Haselrig and Pat Smith Senior year? situations. Did they come in as bottom seeds.?
 

El-Jefe

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Jul 27, 2012
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Is there be an open tournament that Berge could hit before big tens at 157?
The only remaining one is the Last Chance Open, same day as the Rider dual.

It probably wouldn't do much good -- Opens this year have had quite a few lower division entrants, who would not count toward Berge's seeding or at large criteria.

That plus the so-called Dresser Open might do the trick.
 

billrag

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I know nothing about the rules for seeding (or at large), but it also seems that they should use win % if a person drops or bumps a weight. If a guy's 3-1 on the year (or 5-1 or 10-3 or whatever) against D1 competition, who cares whether it was at 157 or 165? I get the whole head to head thing against guys in the weight class, but Berge has wrestled and won this year against decent competition.
 

El-Jefe

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I know nothing about the rules for seeding (or at large), but it also seems that they should use win % if a person drops or bumps a weight. If a guy's 3-1 on the year (or 5-1 or 10-3 or whatever) against D1 competition, who cares whether it was at 157 or 165? I get the whole head to head thing against guys in the weight class, but Berge has wrestled and won this year against decent competition.

Perhaps with a decrement. If it were a straight percentage, you can bet some coaches would game the system.
 

RoarLions1

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Sorry gang, but Berge ain't winning Bigs at 157. I didn't like his tank against Marinelli one bit up at 165, we don't know what we will get after a late drop to 157.

He has the talent to beat any of the top 8 for sure but 3-4 of those guys in a row, my glasses aren't that rosy.
The discussion was a hypothetical one, hopefully some learning along the way.
 
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vjk

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Dec 30, 2021
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What the NCAA Wrestling Committee has tried to do ever since the days of fixed qualifying numbers and set wild-card voting by conference is systematize the process. Now we have;
-- Criteria for Gold & Silver Standards that set the qualifier allocations
-- Criteria for Bronze Standard for at-large selections
-- The three criteria have a set # of bouts in a weight class to be considered
-- and more.

I must admit, from someone that's been following since the early 1970's, today's process is a lot more fair. AND it is explainable, though at times the NCAA lacks transparency and does not take the time to explain things.

I'm sure not every situation fits nicely into the model that is used, even though I'm convinced outliers are rare. So I'm going to hang loose until everything plays out. There may be ways to "adjust" a seed, we'll just have to wait to see. Again, I'm not sure it matters. A #33 seed, if all goes chalk, gets #32, 1, 17, 15, and so on. Lot's of AA wrestlers do so through the consi route.
how quickly we forget Jimmy Englich 12th
 

District four

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Feb 16, 2018
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Sorry gang, but Berge ain't winning Bigs at 157. I didn't like his tank against Marinelli one bit up at 165, we don't know what we will get after a late drop to 157.

He has the talent to beat any of the top 8 for sure but 3-4 of those guys in a row, my glasses aren't that rosy.

At this late stage he could end up a NQ if he were to hit the wrong two hammers back to back and things don't go his way.

There is a better than even chance both 157 and 165 are NQs, and my confidence in Beau is still there, but strained a bit. We are still the favorites in my eyes but all of our studs have to perform to seed which leaves very little room for error. Even Hildybeast could have an early hiccup, he is realistically anywhere from #4-#12. I think Max had more heart than any 197 out there but he is undoubtedly undersized and has some trouble with the bigger kids. He too could be #2-#8.

What we do have that no one else has, is the x factor. The x factor being how Cael preps guys for March. Noone is anywhere near Cael's league, the secret formula proves out every year. A couple of guys will need to be in nationals shape for Bigs this year which definitely is a bit different.

On short we have about 4 weights that could be boom or bust, but this is why it is so great to have Cael Manning the ship. He gets it done!
Was that a slight on Manning lol. I like what you did there
 
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nerfstate

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Oct 10, 2017
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Sorry gang, but Berge ain't winning Bigs at 157. I didn't like his tank against Marinelli one bit up at 165, we don't know what we will get after a late drop to 157.

He has the talent to beat any of the top 8 for sure but 3-4 of those guys in a row, my glasses aren't that rosy.

At this late stage he could end up a NQ if he were to hit the wrong two hammers back to back and things don't go his way.

There is a better than even chance both 157 and 165 are NQs, and my confidence in Beau is still there, but strained a bit. We are still the favorites in my eyes but all of our studs have to perform to seed which leaves very little room for error. Even Hildybeast could have an early hiccup, he is realistically anywhere from #4-#12. I think Max had more heart than any 197 out there but he is undoubtedly undersized and has some trouble with the bigger kids. He too could be #2-#8.

What we do have that no one else has, is the x factor. The x factor being how Cael preps guys for March. Noone is anywhere near Cael's league, the secret formula proves out every year. A couple of guys will need to be in nationals shape for Bigs this year which definitely is a bit different.

On short we have about 4 weights that could be boom or bust, but this is why it is so great to have Cael Manning the ship. He gets it done!
Just a heads up that typically “NQ” is short for “National Qualifier.” I think you mean “DNQ” here.
 
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tullfan68

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Several HR posters have guaranteed that in the liberal beacon of light that is Iowa City no such comment would ever be made. Therefore, I must conclude that the Gomez situation has been fabricated.
lol guess these guys dont read the nasty stuff that Iowa fans write on there own site!!about other teams!!
 
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rmg78

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Feb 22, 2017
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Sorry gang, but Berge ain't winning Bigs at 157. I didn't like his tank against Marinelli one bit up at 165, we don't know what we will get after a late drop to 157.

He has the talent to beat any of the top 8 for sure but 3-4 of those guys in a row, my glasses aren't that rosy.

At this late stage he could end up a NQ if he were to hit the wrong two hammers back to back and things don't go his way.

There is a better than even chance both 157 and 165 are NQs, and my confidence in Beau is still there, but strained a bit. We are still the favorites in my eyes but all of our studs have to perform to seed which leaves very little room for error. Even Hildybeast could have an early hiccup, he is realistically anywhere from #4-#12. I think Max had more heart than any 197 out there but he is undoubtedly undersized and has some trouble with the bigger kids. He too could be #2-#8.

What we do have that no one else has, is the x factor. The x factor being how Cael preps guys for March. Noone is anywhere near Cael's league, the secret formula proves out every year. A couple of guys will need to be in nationals shape for Bigs this year which definitely is a bit different.

On short we have about 4 weights that could be boom or bust, but this is why it is so great to have Cael Manning the ship. He gets it done!
Sorry Goggles, no one said he was going to win Big10's. They are simply discussing seeding implications if he were to win Big10's.
 
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McScoreley

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alb409 (insider) on 247 said "Will be good for Big Tens" when someone asked about the health of Kerk, Max and Starocci.
 

mcpat

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What surprises me is that, NCAA doesn't use prior year(s) tournament results for seeding. You would think that would help the kid that was injured most of the year to be placed in a slot other than dropped to bottom.
Like an ELCO formula?
 

Ian

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Berge is back because he lost an AA spot and possible team championship last year due to the injury. He’s in it for that and that unfinished business. He’s looking for the best spot to do it and provide the team with enough to win. Most likely he will have to wrestle back early on no matter which path he goes. Him being at 157 is probably the best path for all concerned.
 

McScoreley

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Berge is back because he lost an AA spot and possible team championship last year due to the injury. He’s in it for that and that unfinished business. He’s looking for the best spot to do it and provide the team with enough to win. Most likely he will have to wrestle back early on no matter which path he goes. Him being at 157 is probably the best path for all concerned.
Correct - it comes down to if Brady can comfortably make the weight. 157 is parity after the first 2.
 

PAgeologist

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Correct - it comes down to if Brady can comfortably make the weight. 157 is parity after the first 2.
The very late season weight cut worries me. Better get the diet and cut adjustments done right the first time. Of course I have a ton of faith in Cael and crew to get it done right. Plus Berge seemed so much more comfortable and active at 165, minus the Iowa match.
 

The Kid Twist

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The very late season weight cut worries me. Better get the diet and cut adjustments done right the first time. Of course I have a ton of faith in Cael and crew to get it done right. Plus Berge seemed so much more comfortable and active at 165, minus the Iowa match.
I think the Marinelli match was the test to see how Brady could do against the upper echelon at 165 and the way he got tossed around scared Cael & Co. What do you think Brady would against a tank like kid from Ohio State or Hamati at UW let alone all the other tough guys at 165 from other conferences. He wasn't going to make the podium at 165 this year BUT at 157 he can definitely make the podium (barring injury). Better to be safe than sorry. We have the NC sewn up but why leave an opening by not qualifying anyone at 157 when we have someone on the roster that can make the podium an generate some extra cushion points in case someone screws the pooch at 149 or 165? 157 is the right move for Brady and the Team. Let's lock up Cael's 9th NC!!!
 
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