Barron gets grilled by PA Rep about new art museum

[The Spin Meister]

Screw that. If I have an O'Keefe, Frederick Church and Thomas Hart Benton (3 of my favorite artists) I'm hanging them in my house.
I'm selfish like that.

Thats cause you are a normal person. ( well, close to one) The rich see art as a tax dodge and work it accordingly. And the museums play along.....correction...are duplicitous. I imagine the museums helped write the tax laws in the first place.

Perhaps that is what is behind this museum in the first place. All those wealthy trustees see this as a way to write off a ton of taxes, get their names on the walls next to 'donated' art, and look like down right civilized people that just love helping out Dear Ol State.

 

[MJG-90]

Thats cause you are a normal person. ( well, close to one) The rich see art as a tax dodge and work it accordingly. And the museums play along.....correction...are duplicitous. I imagine the museums helped write the tax laws in the first place.

Perhaps that is what is behind this museum in the first place. All those wealthy trustees see this as a way to write off a ton of taxes, get their names on the walls next to 'donated' art, and look like down right civilized people that just love helping out Dear Ol State.

I suppose in some way, at least that art gets displayed for the public to view. Otherwise, where might it end up?

 

[OaktonDave]

Any "body language experts" on board here? I wouldn't trust Barron to give an accurate count of his fingers just from watching his inability to keep his eyes directed towards the questioner.

From an information elicitation perspective, he's not showing any notable signs of deception. His eye movement isn't telling because he's all over the place no matter what he's saying. I would be more concerned if stared the questioner down or went from maintaining consistent eye contact to looking away when certain topics are raised. His posture is open and he seems to at least try to respond to the questions that he is asked rather than trying to work around them. When responding to questions on attendance projections, for example, his behavior suggests he has convinced himself that they are reasonable. I think it's crazy talk, but he doesn't. Thus, he can answer and behave as comfortably as anyone can in that setting. In other words, I don't think he's lying because he believes (or very much wants to believe) what he is saying. I don't think he is being remotely realistic, just not dishonest.

 

[KnightWhoSaysNit]

The link doesn't work, and I couldn't watch the video - but in general, I really don't understand the Barron hatred on this board. It's just become knee jerk and reflexive and mean spirited. If Barron is for something - virtually this entire board is against it. I also don't understand the legislature's apparent hostility toward Penn State. We've seen it for years.

Your anger should be directed at our legislature, which has been reducing support for PSU for decades - funds the Univ at levels far below most other flagship state univ's....and does ridiculous things like hike up turnpike tolls to unsustainable levels while skimming hundreds of millions off the top and sending it to SEPTA. Oh yeah, and we have the largest full time state legislature in the nation...which I'm sure operates very efficiently.

From where I sit, I think there is room for anger directed at both groups -- university administration/BOT AND the state legislature.

 

[flinter]

Perhaps they should also build a convention center to make that part of campus a true regional destination. They could host flower shows, auto shows, home shows, outdoor sports shows, even farm shows, and have a year round stream of visitors from around the state who would take advantage of the arboretum and art museum as well. Perhaps they could repurpose the BJC as part of this project. The educational mission of the university could be enhanced by the event planning, hotel and restaurant management activities needed to support this development. And they could lease commercial space attached to these facilities for income similar to things done along the Drexel or F&M campuses among many others. Put in a creamery outlet, some shopping, and a few restaurants so we could all go to Wendy’s or Chick Fil A for breakfast before the game.

They could also put people with squeegees at all the entrances to the parking lots and clean windows while people are stuck in traffic. THAT would bring in some BIG money and probably no NCAA violation.

 

[flinter]

Screw that. If I have an O'Keefe, Frederick Church and Thomas Hart Benton (3 of my favorite artists) I'm hanging them in my house.
I'm selfish like that.

I once owned an Alice Neel sketch of my ex from the 1950s when my wife was about 5-6. Guess who got it in the divorce? Paid $500.00 for it in late 70s. No idea what it's worth now-no matter.

 

[PSUMATT85]

I once owned an Alice Neel sketch of my ex from the 1950s when my wife was about 5-6. Guess who got it in the divorce? Paid $500.00 for it in late 70s. No idea what it's worth now-no matter.

Barron proves why PSU deserves no donations

 

[BBrown]

I once owned an Alice Neel sketch of my ex from the 1950s when my wife was about 5-6. Guess who got it in the divorce? Paid $500.00 for it in late 70s. No idea what it's worth now-no matter.

Wow. LOL.

 

[Fac]

I likely Midnighter. That was funny.

 

[WestSideLion]

I would have loved to have heard that conversation, I'm an O'Keefe super fanboy.
I've been to her house in Abiqui and Ghost Ranch twice and am planning a return trip to Taos and Abiqui in June.

It was impressive...even for me who was a young male uninterested in art at the time.

 

[Art]

Well.... since we KNOW he's lying through his teeth (if one has been following along at all) it may be time to recalibrate your sensors

I don't think he's lying. He's just not adept at making a soft case to justify spending a large amount of money.

 

[NittPicker]

Barron must have finished his Freeh review since he's pivoted to the museum. When he first took office he said one of his main goals was making tuition more affordable. A museum doesn't help accomplish that goal.

 

[Keyser Soze 16801]

We need a football team the art museum can be proud of

 

[anon_xdc8rmuek44eq]

I would have loved to have heard that conversation, I'm an O'Keefe super fanboy.
I've been to her house in Abiqui and Ghost Ranch twice and am planning a return trip to Taos and Abiqui in June.

Honestly, it should still be called the Palmer Museum of Art - any art of significance was bequeathed by them.

 

[interrobang]

Palmer Museum at Barron Field

 

[BBrown]

Palmer Museum at Barron Field

 

[81b&w]

Honestly, it should still be called the Palmer Museum of Art - any art of significance was bequeathed by them.

I was thinking the same thing as it should be. Be really interesting to see if Barron was still gung ho if he knew it would still be called The Palmer Museum. For some reason I don't think so

 

[MacNit07]

Barron testifies along the lines...."people come to PSU for a football game and they need something else for their family to do, they can visit the museum..." nothing said about people coming to see THE painting.

In a former life I served in development for a national non-profit. From that experience, sometimes a "gift" isn't a gift when it requires additional $ resources from the organization...the "gift" becomes a burden and takes away from serving the organization's real mission.

This "gift" should have also included sufficient $ to fund museum construction, plus $ in endowment to cover all future operating and maintenance costs...then it truly would have been a gift...

This is a superlatively made point!

 

[MacNit07]

You'd have to change PSU's charter to do that.

Years a go I spoke with (a now former) legislator who investigated the possibility of what you suggest. Long and short of it is that PSU wasn't interested (in making the necessary changes, which go well beyond how the Board is constituted) and the pols were disinclined to provide more funding. Do you believe anything has changed?

I did the same thing with a legislator that my old PSU roommate (also a politician - but not PA) put me in touch...I did not realize a Penn State has to also be willing change. Wonder what the catalyst can be.? When PSU prices itself beyond the reach of average PA kids? Are we close now?

 

[Nitwit]

I did the same thing with a legislator that my old PSU roommate (also a politician - but not PA) put me in touch...I did not realize a Penn State has to also be willing change. Wonder what the catalyst can be.? When PSU prices itself beyond the reach of average PA kids? Are we close now?

I think so - given the high proportion of out of state kids who are enrolled including something like 11% international students. It depends what you mean by average PA kids though. PSU seems to have evolved into a school for wealthier suburban kids and has already priced itself beyond what many families can afford or are willing to pay. Is that a bad thing? Rich kids need somewhere to go too. Lower income PA kids can always live at home and attend one of the other PSU campuses. And wealthier students from other states can enroll if they want to pay the higher tuition, and many do. I think by and large Penn State competes with private colleges for their students, and there is a Happy Valley premium charged to those who want that main campus experience. Students from lower income families have a lot of options in PA including Temple and Pitt while living at home, the PA state colleges, or community colleges. BTW, some nearby State Universities like Delaware and West Virginia have over 50% of their enrollment from out of state.

 

[Art]

I did the same thing with a legislator that my old PSU roommate (also a politician - but not PA) put me in touch...I did not realize a Penn State has to also be willing change. Wonder what the catalyst can be.? When PSU prices itself beyond the reach of average PA kids? Are we close now?

The discussion I had was years ago and I got the sense that the rep undertook his efforts some years before (if I had to guess it would be 2-3). It was a non-starter then, from both sides. Can't imagine anything has changed, but that's a pure guess.

 

[PearlSUJam]

PSU seems to have evolved into a school for wealthier suburban kids and has already priced itself beyond what many families can afford or are willing to pay.

Why is this? Please elaborate. I'm asking kindly.

 

[81b&w]

Why is this? Please elaborate. I'm asking kindly.

has already priced itself beyond what many families can afford or are willing to pay. I agree

 

[Nitwit]

Why is this? Please elaborate. I'm asking kindly.

It’s not a city school. It’s not cheap. The proportion of black students is still pretty low. It’s like the Aeropostale of state universities. Suburban kids seem comfortable there and it’s often their destination of choice. And they’re paying less than they would at all the good private colleges around PA, except sometimes when adjusted for private school aid. PSU isn’t really a State university as much as a state aided university. I believe it gets only about 5% if it’s funding from the State. It’s a private school with some State money.

 

[Hotshoe]

Let me just say something here:

To all the f^cks who soliloquy on about the poor Trustees - and how there ain't nothing they can do, so its OK that they never even try to do their f^cking job:


That's ONE expose of ONE of these GD boondoggle projects - that gets in front of the eyes of a PA Rep.

Imagine if an actual - you know, Trustee... the folks who have the damn forum to speak up about this crap - took the time to actually, publicly (as they are supposed to do) expose this crap that goes on month after month after month...… so that these folks in HBurg could see it every month..... what might happen then?

What might happen if even one of the worthless f^cks who y'all elect to the Board actually - you know - did their f^cking job?



So there, then. Done.

As much as I agree with you, you actually believe Harrisburg doesn't know what's going on, or simply doesn't give a sh&t because of influence and bribery.

 

[ouirpsu]

I think so - given the high proportion of out of state kids who are enrolled including something like 11% international students. It depends what you mean by average PA kids though. PSU seems to have evolved into a school for wealthier suburban kids and has already priced itself beyond what many families can afford or are willing to pay. Is that a bad thing? Rich kids need somewhere to go too. Lower income PA kids can always live at home and attend one of the other PSU campuses. And wealthier students from other states can enroll if they want to pay the higher tuition, and many do. I think by and large Penn State competes with private colleges for their students, and there is a Happy Valley premium charged to those who want that main campus experience. Students from lower income families have a lot of options in PA including Temple and Pitt while living at home, the PA state colleges, or community colleges. BTW, some nearby State Universities like Delaware and West Virginia have over 50% of their enrollment from out of state.

University of Alabama freshman class is over 60% out of state now. The university is working very hard to improve both its rigor and reputation, and gives a lot of money to "top" students, which makes it very affordable for out of staters. Plus, they recruit out of state like crazy.

 

[PearlSUJam]

It’s not a city school. It’s not cheap. The proportion of black students is still pretty low. It’s like the Aeropostale of state universities. Suburban kids seem comfortable there and it’s often their destination of choice. And they’re paying less than they would at all the good private colleges around PA, except sometimes when adjusted for private school aid. PSU isn’t really a State university as much as a state aided university. I believe it gets only about 5% if it’s funding from the State. It’s a private school with some State money.

But why is it so expensive now? When I attended in the early 90's it was comparable to all of those "city schools".

 

[interrobang]

Simple. It's expensive because it can be. Schools know students will just take out student loans that they'll later complain about and they know that there's zero pressure on schools to lower costs since all the attention is on how to reduce student loan debt, not prevent it in the first place.

 

[PearlSUJam]

has already priced itself beyond what many families can afford or are willing to pay. I agree

But why?

 

[BBrown]

Why is this? Please elaborate. I'm asking kindly.

In me and my 2 siblings that are also PSU Alums case, we were from a middle class family in Western PA that mostly got by on a PELL Grant, Another Grant (forget what the name of that one was) and student loans. There is now no way we could afford to go to Main Campus and I'm thinking even the Altoona one would be out of our league.
Unless of course we took out some outrageous loans which our parents would have never let us do.

 

[BBrown]

Simple. It's expensive because it can be. Schools know students will just take out student loans that they'll later complain about and they know that there's zero pressure on schools to lower costs since all the attention is on how to reduce student loan debt, not prevent it in the first place.

I might be wrong on this, wouldn't be the first time, but didn't the move into the B1G really up the expense?

 

[PearlSUJam]

Seriously?

It's not that complicated.... and all there to see in black-and-white (and red) in the financial statements.

https://barryfenchak4trustee.wordpr...bring-penn-state-tuition-costs-under-control/

https://barryfenchak4trustee.wordpr...f-a-4-year-degree-penn-state-and-the-big-ten/

I wanted him to explain it to me.

 

[Fac]

Wow. LOL.

I might be wrong on this, wouldn't be the first time, but didn't the move into the B1G really up the expense?

Where in western Pa are you from?

 

[BringBackStoneys]

I wanted him to explain it to me.

The blowhards on this board won’t give you a straight answer but the unequivocal driver of tuition increases is the state legislature’s decision to cut appropriations to higher education. The total higher ed appropriation is same same as it was in 1999. Adjusted for inflation, that’s -30%. We are ranked 48th in public higher ed funding per public student. This is the result of 20 years of neglect and the PASSHE schools that have not been as aggressive in investing in new faculty/programs/infrastructure are imploding because of it.

New buildings and administrative bloat (largely driven by new federal and state regulations and parent expectations for things like psychological services) only account for ~8% of the increase.

Unbelievably, many on this board think a strategy to crank out more welders will reverse our statewide economic decline in the era of the knowledge economy.

 

[interrobang]

The blowhards on this board won’t give you a straight answer but the unequivocal driver of tuition increases is the state legislature’s decision to cut appropriations to higher education. The total higher ed appropriation is same same as it was in 1999. Adjusted for inflation, that’s -30%. We are ranked 48th in public higher ed funding per public student. This is the result of 20 years of neglect and the PASSHE schools that have not been as aggressive in investing in new faculty/programs/infrastructure are imploding because of it.

New buildings and administrative bloat (largely driven by new federal and state regulations and parent expectations for things like psychological services) only account for ~8% of the increase.

Unbelievably, many on this board think a strategy to crank out more welders will reverse our statewide economic decline in the era of the knowledge economy.

Hi President Barron

 

[BBrown]

Where in western Pa are you from?

Somerset.

 

[BBrown]

The blowhards on this board won’t give you a straight answer but the unequivocal driver of tuition increases is the state legislature’s decision to cut appropriations to higher education. The total higher ed appropriation is same same as it was in 1999. Adjusted for inflation, that’s -30%. We are ranked 48th in public higher ed funding per public student. This is the result of 20 years of neglect and the PASSHE schools that have not been as aggressive in investing in new faculty/programs/infrastructure are imploding because of it.

New buildings and administrative bloat (largely driven by new federal and state regulations and parent expectations for things like psychological services) only account for ~8% of the increase.

Unbelievably, many on this board think a strategy to crank out more welders will reverse our statewide economic decline in the era of the knowledge economy.

 

[BringBackStoneys]

LMAO. All actual, you know, facts, to the contrary. (Data from US Dept.of Educ.: IPEDS Database)


………………….. State …….…….………….…. Net
………………….. Appropriation per ….……. In-State
………………….. In-State Student …………. Tuition **

Penn State …….. $10,436*** …….. $16,798
*** Data from 2017/2018. Updated data for 2020 (based on most recent PA allocation) will be approximately $12,500 (depending on final tally for In-State vs OOS enrollment)


Illinois ……... $8,107 …….. $9,816
Indiana …….. $9,140 …….. $5,284
Iowa …….. $12,595 …….. $4,685
Maryland …….. $17,241 ……. $6,828
Michigan …….. $14,695 …….. $8,348
Michigan State ……. $10,824 …….. $10,309
Minnesota …….. $11,588 …….. $10,540
Nebraska …….. $13,926 …….. $5,973
Ohio State ……. $10,582 …….. $5,437
Purdue ……. $9,648 …….. $5,569
Rutgers ……. $12,761 …….. $10,434
Wisconsin...….. $11,047 …….. $7,050

Big Ten Average ……. $11,738 …….. $8,236

Yawn. Explain to the class the how you fabricated, I mean “calculated” your $10,436/per student number. You fashioned some inane logic to not include half of Penn State’s students, no?

 

[BringBackStoneys]

Appropriation: $268M
Pennslyvania Students: 54,500
$/In-state Student: $4917

Using your B1G stats for comparison:

Illinois ……... $8,107
Indiana …….. $9,140
Iowa …….. $12,595
Maryland …….. $17,241
Michigan …….. $14,695
Michigan State ……. $10,824
Minnesota …….. $11,588
Nebraska …….. $13,926
Ohio State ……. $10,582
Purdue ……. $9,648
Rutgers ……. $12,761
Wisconsin...….. $11,047
Penn State........$4,917

Big Ten Average ……. $11,738

 

[BringBackStoneys]

Yeah…. well, except that the subsidy only goes for UP students (I am sure you remember seeing PSU's Commonwealth Campus budgets linked in here before.... right? The ones right from the PSU Financial Statements? )
Just like the other B10 Universities with "branches".


I'd spend more time trying to explain to you.... but - obviously - "explaining" doesn't mean you'd understand. Unfortunately, I don't speak your native tongue. (Is that "Vapidese"? Or, "Retardese"? Or both?)


Rah! Rah! Sis-Boom-Bah!!!!




BTW: On a related note... You think that $268,000,000 (now $300+, or something like that) is the only money PSU gets from the State of PA?
Try using your own "thinker" for more than a hat rack. It could - obviously - use the exercise.


But try swimming in your own depth...… you're in way over your head Junior.

Ciao

So, you are telling us that if the PA legislature directed 100% of Penn State’s appropriated funds to UP in-state students, and appropriated $0 to students at branch campuses and Penn Tech (which is demonstrably false, but we’ll go with it for arguments sake) the appropriation per in-state UP student would still be below average for the Big10?