Wrestling B1G Tournament Pre-seeds

[Random4598375]

Disagree on a couple fronts:
1. Steen needs 2 wins total, not necessarily 2 in consis.

2. Gonzales has had a better career in both HS and college (they're the same year).

3. If this affects Steen's path to nationals, the path became harder.
- If Gonzales is seeded above Steen (i.e., 7-10), then there is no bracket path in which they could meet before both had already qualified for nationals --> no effect.
- If Gonzales is seeded below Steen, then Steen becomes the 10 seed and his entire path changes. His opening opponent would no longer be the injured DeAugustino, and he would need to beat the 8/9 in consis instead of the 12/13.
- The only way Steen's path improves is if he's the 10 seed and loses his opener, vs. losing his opener as the 11. Then he would need to beat the 8/9 instead of the 4/5 in consis. (But that still worse than his path if he beats DeAugustino first).

4. Steen cannot qualify by finishing 9th.
It's top 8 or go home.

If Steen move up to 10, then his preseed opponent would have been Heinselman, but since he's out, it would be Braxton Brown of MD moving up a spot, who beat Steen 1-0 in the dual. That's still a winnable match and not a terrible matchup all told. Brown's resume isn't all that impressive. His best win is a major over Peterson, but he barely beat Steen, Lujan, and Renteria, and wrestled red-shirting true frosh McCrone from tOSU instead of Heinselman in the dual.

 

[Psugo823]

If Steen move up to 10, then his preseed opponent would have been Heinselman, but since he's out, it would be Braxton Brown of MD moving up a spot, who beat Steen 1-0 in the dual. That's still a winnable match and not a terrible matchup all told. Brown's resume isn't all that impressive. His best win is a major over Peterson, but he barely beat Steen, Lujan, and Renteria, and wrestled red-shirting true frosh McCrone from tOSU instead of Heinselman in the dual.

When do we get the new seeds?

 

[jmadden1998]

When do we get the new seeds?

Friday afternoon/evening when the brackets come out.

 

[El-Jefe]

If Steen move up to 10, then his preseed opponent would have been Heinselman, but since he's out, it would be Braxton Brown of MD moving up a spot, who beat Steen 1-0 in the dual. That's still a winnable match and not a terrible matchup all told. Brown's resume isn't all that impressive. His best win is a major over Peterson, but he barely beat Steen, Lujan, and Renteria, and wrestled red-shirting true frosh McCrone from tOSU instead of Heinselman in the dual.

I agree with you that Brown is winnable. But so is DeAugustino.

Either way if he wins that first match, he's likely losing in the quarters. And his next consi opponent is much harder if he's the 10 than if he's the 11.

 

[GogglesPaizano]

Nomad has been harping on counting matches where the starter for one team showed up and the other didn't as a L for the one who didn't for a long time and I'm starting to agree with him here. It would hurt someone like Brooks or RBY but it matters less for them since you know, if anything them getting placed randomly in the field (possibly as a 4 seed even) would just be bad news of others not them.

It's undoubtedly controversial, but for a couple of years I have been warming to my own thoughts where each 'team', 'earns' the seed at each weight, rather than the individual wrestlers by name. This applies only to seeding for the conference championship.

Thus, using 184 and Brooks as an example, the PSU 184 seed is determined by the collective results of all PSU designated 'starters' in eligible events and duals.

So if Brooks needed some time off for injury, recovery or otherwise, all of Ball's matches (as the starter) count for the team 185 conference seeding process including his losses. I have no issue with an RBY or a Brooks as a returning national champion, not getting the #1 seed as a result. Sitting, whether for legitimate injury or ducking should potentially have consequences IMO. Our Haines /Barraclough situation is another example where our seed would be impacted negatively. I have no issues with that, even if the result were Haines hitting Robb early in the bracket for example.

I am sure there are many flaws including some unscrupulous attempts to rig the model to obtain a specific seed to avoid certain matchups, but honestly who cares? Likewise, you have the counter example where a Heinselman for Ohio State will have earned a higher team 125 seed, that Gonzales likely can't back up on the mat, but again no system is perfect.

I be really do like the team weight class earning a seed as a concept though, and believe it might start to chip away at outright ducking during the dual season. If you sit your hammer against their hammer, it will be a loss on your record for that weight class for the conference championship.

I don't think this can carry through to national seeding, where individual record and conference championship results properly carry the day.

 

[PSU Mike]

It's undoubtedly controversial, but for a couple of years I have been warming to my own thoughts where each 'team', 'earns' the seed at each weight, rather than the individual wrestlers by name. This applies only to seeding for the conference championship.

Thus, using 185 and Brooks as an example, the PSU 185 seed is determined by the collective results of all PSU designated 'starters' in eligible events and duals.

So if Brooks needed some time off for injury or otherwise, all of Ball's matches (as the starter) count for the team 185 conference seeding process including his losses. I have no issue with an RBY or a Brooks as a returning national champion, not getting the #1 seed as a result. Sitting, whether for legitimate injury or ducking should potentially have consequences IMO. Our Haines /Barraclough situation is another example where our seed would be impacted negatively. I have no issues with that, even if the result were Haines hitting Robb early in the bracket for example.

I am sure there are many flaws including some unscrupulous attempts to rig the model to obtain a specific seed to avoid certain matchups, but honestly who cares? Likewise, you have the counter example where a Heinselman for Ohio State will have earned a higher team 125 seed, that Gonzales likely can't back up on the mat, but again no system is perfect.

I be really do like the team weight class earning a seed as a concept though, and believe it might start to chip away at outright ducking during the dual season. If you sit your hammer against their hammer, it will be a loss on your record for that weight class for the conference championship.

I don't think this can carry through to national seeding, where individual record and conference championship results properly carry the day.

This hypothetical required a whole new weight class?

 

[El-Jefe]

Here are Steen’s possible paths thru B10s to a top 8 finish, with Heinselman out and DeAugustino questionable:

Steen as 11:
Wins opener vs. 6 DeAugustino:
- L quarters vs. 3 Ramos
- Consi Round 2 vs. winner of 12 Lujan vs. 13 Moran

Loses opener:
- Consi Round 1 vs. 14 Renteria
- Consi Round 2 vs. loser of 4 Barnett vs. 5 McKee the Consolations King

Steen as 10:
This requires either Gonzales seeded somewhere below Steen, OR (DeAugustino withdraws + Gonzales seeded 8/9). NW's only other 125 would be the 14 (or not entered).
Wins opener vs. 7 Brown:
- L quarters vs. 2 Cronin
- Consi Round 2 vs. 8/9 loser (Peterson, Medley, or Gonzales)

Loses opener:
- Bye in consi Round 1
- Consi Round 2 vs. 8/9 winner

Steen as 9:
This is if DeAugustino also withdraws AND Gonzales is seeded below Steen.

Wins opener vs. 8 Medley:
- L quarters vs. 1 Lee
- Consi Round 2 vs. 10 (Lujan or Gonzales, depending on where Gonzales is seeded)

Loses opener:
- Bye in consi Round 1
- Consi Round 2 vs. loser of 2 Cronin vs. 7 Peterson

 

[JOESTROSSER]

Here are Steen’s possible paths thru B10s to a top 8 finish, with Heinselman out and DeAugustino questionable:

Steen as 11:
Wins opener vs. 6 DeAugustino:
- L quarters vs. 3 Ramos
- Consi Round 2 vs. winner of 12 Lujan vs. 13 Moran

Loses opener:
- Consi Round 1 vs. 14 Renteria
- Consi Round 2 vs. loser of 4 Barnett vs. 5 McKee the Consolations King

Steen as 10:
This requires either Gonzales seeded somewhere below Steen, OR (DeAugustino withdraws + Gonzales seeded 8/9). NW's only other 125 would be the 14 (or not entered).
Wins opener vs. 7 Brown:
- L quarters vs. 2 Cronin
- Consi Round 2 vs. 8/9 loser (Peterson, Medley, or Gonzales)

Loses opener:
- Bye in consi Round 1
- Consi Round 2 vs. 8/9 winner

Steen as 9:
This is if DeAugustino also withdraws AND Gonzales is seeded below Steen.

Wins opener vs. 8 Medley:
- L quarters vs. 1 Lee
- Consi Round 2 vs. 10 (Lujan or Gonzales, depending on where Gonzales is seeded)

Loses opener:
- Bye in consi Round 1
- Consi Round 2 vs. loser of 2 Cronin vs. 7 Peterson

There's some possibilities in there for the young man.

 

[Psugo823]

I'm actually wondering of DeAugustino is a go at all in this tournament because his last outing he didn't look anywhere near 100 percent

 

[GogglesPaizano]

Siebrecht gets Paddy Gallagher first round. Tough draw for a 5 seed.

Especially considering his shirt status. Pretty intimidating.

The video is worth the watch.

Gallagher Awarded Black Shirt

Ohio State Buckeyes

ohiostatebuckeyes.com

 

[a_mshaffer]

It's undoubtedly controversial, but for a couple of years I have been warming to my own thoughts where each 'team', 'earns' the seed at each weight, rather than the individual wrestlers by name. This applies only to seeding for the conference championship.

Thus, using 184 and Brooks as an example, the PSU 184 seed is determined by the collective results of all PSU designated 'starters' in eligible events and duals.

So if Brooks needed some time off for injury, recovery or otherwise, all of Ball's matches (as the starter) count for the team 185 conference seeding process including his losses. I have no issue with an RBY or a Brooks as a returning national champion, not getting the #1 seed as a result. Sitting, whether for legitimate injury or ducking should potentially have consequences IMO. Our Haines /Barraclough situation is another example where our seed would be impacted negatively. I have no issues with that, even if the result were Haines hitting Robb early in the bracket for example.

I am sure there are many flaws including some unscrupulous attempts to rig the model to obtain a specific seed to avoid certain matchups, but honestly who cares? Likewise, you have the counter example where a Heinselman for Ohio State will have earned a higher team 125 seed, that Gonzales likely can't back up on the mat, but again no system is perfect.

I be really do like the team weight class earning a seed as a concept though, and believe it might start to chip away at outright ducking during the dual season. If you sit your hammer against their hammer, it will be a loss on your record for that weight class for the conference championship.

I don't think this can carry through to national seeding, where individual record and conference championship results properly carry the day.

not a bad idea...especially since it is a team sport... what did you represent at each position/weight thru the year.... of course that opens the door to some gamemanship

 

[Random4598375]

Here are Steen’s possible paths thru B10s to a top 8 finish, with Heinselman out and DeAugustino questionable:

Steen as 11:
Wins opener vs. 6 DeAugustino:
- L quarters vs. 3 Ramos
- Consi Round 2 vs. winner of 12 Lujan vs. 13 Moran

Loses opener:
- Consi Round 1 vs. 14 Renteria
- Consi Round 2 vs. loser of 4 Barnett vs. 5 McKee the Consolations King

Steen as 10:
This requires either Gonzales seeded somewhere below Steen, OR (DeAugustino withdraws + Gonzales seeded 8/9). NW's only other 125 would be the 14 (or not entered).
Wins opener vs. 7 Brown:
- L quarters vs. 2 Cronin
- Consi Round 2 vs. 8/9 loser (Peterson, Medley, or Gonzales)

Loses opener:
- Bye in consi Round 1
- Consi Round 2 vs. 8/9 winner

Steen as 9:
This is if DeAugustino also withdraws AND Gonzales is seeded below Steen.

Wins opener vs. 8 Medley:
- L quarters vs. 1 Lee
- Consi Round 2 vs. 10 (Lujan or Gonzales, depending on where Gonzales is seeded)

Loses opener:
- Bye in consi Round 1
- Consi Round 2 vs. loser of 2 Cronin vs. 7 Peterson

Steen is a 10 and Gonzalez is 14 and DeAugustino is in the draw. Steen going to have to beat one of Peterson or Medley to qualify no matter what (unless the Peterson-Medley winner beats Spencer, then he'd have to beat Spencer instead, LOL). They both teched him this season.