Alumni Trustees Transcript of 9/8/2015 Oral Argument...

[JmmyW]

Alumni Trustees Transcript of 9/8/2015 Oral Argument...
... to review the unredacted Freeh materials was just posted to Twitter:



I haven't read the transcript yet but there is a second file in that Dropbox folder that is a 30 page PowerPoint presentation illustrating the many ongoing legal cases referencing the Freeh report, with more than few seeking access to the Freeh materials.

It seems clear the alumni trustees have a duty to review the unredacted documents. But it also reminds me of the statement Barron and Masser back in April regarding a need for confidentiality. Their formal response to the alumni trustees request included this gem: "There is no matter pending before the Board for which a review of the Source Materials is relevant."





----- article from April 2015 with link to the above letter:

Barron and Masser stand by need for confidentiality of Freeh documents | Penn State University
http://news.psu.edu/story/353666/20...er-stand-need-confidentiality-freeh-documents

To see the University’s full response to the demands of Trustees Ted Brown, Barbara Doran, Robert C. Jubelirer, Anthony Lubrano, Ryan J. McCombie, William F. Oldsey and Alice W. Pope, go to http://www.psu.edu/ur/2014/Response_Letter.pdf.

 

[Tom McAndrew]

You guys should read this, especially the legal eagles. I was pretty busy today, and as such didn't get to post them.

You will need to look at the slides, as the oral argument references them quite a bit.

 

[PSUEngineerx2]

Notice in the Transcript document (beginning on the bottom of page 18) the alumni trustees bring up the ongoing Athletics Integrity Agreement and that it would be in place for another 2 years.

Does this have anything to do with today's announcement that the Athletics Integrity Monitor would be no more at the end of this year?

Hence, the alumni trustees won't be able to use that argument any longer after the end of the year?

 

[psu00]

Notice in the Transcript document (beginning on the bottom of page 18) the alumni trustees bring up the ongoing Athletics Integrity Agreement and that it would be in place for another 2 years.

Does this have anything to do with today's announcement that the Athletics Integrity Monitor would be no more at the end of this year?

Hence, the alumni trustees won't be able to use that argument any longer after the end of the year?

Not able to open the link but good catch. Interesting..........

 

[PSUEngineerx2]

Not able to open the link but good catch. Interesting..........

Super interesting documents. I can email them to you if you'd like.

 

[psu00]

Super interesting documents. I can email them to you if you'd like.

Thanks. I may have to take you up on that later if I can't open them (on phone now- will try laptop tomorrow).

 

[91Joe95]

Thanks. I may have to take you up on that later if I can't open them (on phone now- will try laptop tomorrow).

Mine opened up OK. PDF file and QuickOffice worked fine.

 

[91Joe95]

Several items I noticed....

- Spanier may add PSU to his lawsuit. Not a reach to see individual trustees personally named too.

- Lots of cases named PSU is involved in, with diametrically opposed conclusions on the validity of Freeh's conclusions as the basis for them that PSU must defend against.

-New trustees question old trustees decisions, some by name. I like where this one could go if the Freeh report isn't on the up and up. I could see Lord and co. engineering a coup pretty effectively, and probably much worse.

- Individual fiduciary responsibilities and rights vs. group.

- Athletic agreement cited amongst other things. Imagine that.

- Alumni trustees propose confidentiality agreement if judge wants it.


Honestly, I was embarrassed by the quality of PSU's response. I can't believe that was the best PSU could pay for.

 

[bjf1984]

"Honestly, I was embarrassed by the quality of PSU's response. I can't believe that was the best PSU could pay for."

Hard to polish a turd into a bar of gold.....no matter how much you pay them

 

[PennSt8er]

So I read all of it. The alumni trustees' arguments are spot on. The "defense" by the entrenched mobsters is pathetic and wrong and off target. It's a smoke and mirrors "look over there" strategy and it's really really bad. To quote 91Joe95, it is an embarrassment to Penn State and it shows how awful the legal team is at Penn State. The alumni trustees will be deep in Freeh report files very soon and this will begin the end of the rule of the entrenched trustees. Expect trustee resignations (the bad guys) within a year. The wheels on their bus are falling off.

 

[PennSt8er]

I should add that I expect all of the review and discussion to happen privately because there will most likely be a gag order.

 

[SteveMasters]

Several items I noticed....

-New trustees question old trustees decisions, some by name. I like where this one could go if the Freeh report isn't on the up and up. I could see Lord and co. engineering a coup pretty effectively, and probably much worse.

Honestly, I was embarrassed by the quality of PSU's response. I can't believe that was the best PSU could pay for.

I am not all all surprised with the quality of PSU's response. They have nothing to work with. Their strategy has been to deny and delay. IMO, the house of cards is getting ready to fall and the end is near. Penn State has a week to respond and it should be very interesting. I don't believe anything will change over this next week and the quality of their response will be no better than it was at the hearing.

 

[Victor E. Bell]

This is part of the university's response...Thanks for making the petitioners' case for them.

Page 45
1 trustees don't have authority to act on their own.
2 The Board acts as a board. It speaks for the
3 institution. It acts collectively, not
4 individually. Individual trustees don't make
5 determinations about signing leases. They don't
6 sign leases or enter into contracts. They don't
7 make judgments about that's privileged or not, this
8 is confidential or not. There has to be a process.
9 The Board acts collectively, not individually.

Cuts both ways.

 

[Obliviax]

This is part of the university's response...Thanks for making the petitioners' case for them.

Page 45
1 trustees don't have authority to act on their own.
2 The Board acts as a board. It speaks for the
3 institution. It acts collectively, not
4 individually. Individual trustees don't make
5 determinations about signing leases. They don't
6 sign leases or enter into contracts. They don't
7 make judgments about that's privileged or not, this
8 is confidential or not. There has to be a process.
9 The Board acts collectively, not individually.

Cuts both ways.

yeah...interestingly, they didn't do that with the consent decree or the Freeh report. The entire board was NOT informed and they have argued, in fact, that the board cannot act collectively while defending their consent decree decision in court.

 

[bwifan]

The wheels seem to be finally slowly turning in our favor. It's been a long road and will still be a long road going forward but it's starting to look like the wind is shifting to be at our backs. I agree with pennst8r that there will be lots of behind the scenes communication and look to see some trustees suddenly announcing they are moving on and the company line of "how they enjoyed their time at psu and guide them through troubled times but glad leave them on solid footing etc yadda yadda yadda..." . I would expect to see numerous trustees leave in the upcoming year many being cr666 buds.....

 

[NittPicker]

This is part of the university's response...Thanks for making the petitioners' case for them.

Page 45
1 trustees don't have authority to act on their own.
2 The Board acts as a board. It speaks for the
3 institution. It acts collectively, not
4 individually. Individual trustees don't make
5 determinations about signing leases. They don't
6 sign leases or enter into contracts. They don't
7 make judgments about that's privileged or not, this
8 is confidential or not. There has to be a process.
9 The Board acts collectively, not individually.

Cuts both ways.

Tell that to Peetz and Frazier since they individually spoke for the rest of the unknowing BoT when the Freeh garbage was released.

 

[lionlurker]

They hope they speak as one voice. Ultimately that will up to a court to decide, perhaps.

 

[psu00]

If there's a gag order or some confidentiality agreement between the sides then what the alumni trustees are allowed to see will never see the light of day. The alumni reps won't be able to push back in any meaningful way.

 

[Zenophile]

If there's a gag order or some confidentiality agreement between the sides then what the alumni trustees are allowed to see will never see the light of day. The alumni reps won't be able to push back in any meaningful way.

This issue is directly addressed by the Alumni-elected trustees' attorney: https://t.co/N105Z6gLFq
In the file "September 8, 2015 Oral Argument Transcript (00214895xBF28F).pdf"

 

[91Joe95]

If there's a gag order or some confidentiality agreement between the sides then what the alumni trustees are allowed to see will never see the light of day. The alumni reps won't be able to push back in any meaningful way.

I didn't read it that way at all. Besides questioning the decision making process of certain trustees, they can then use the info in the meetings. If the trustees still want to pretend the info doesn't matter, then the trustees still have other avenues. This is the beginnings of a concerted board coup with fiduciary duties as the main focal point. Given the dollars involved, the bot better hope Freeh was air tight in his investigation or this could get really ugly for some members.

BTW, I completely forgot to mention the insurance company was one of the cases, and they are calling bs on the report. That right there could provide a whole host of problems for some members.

 

[psu00]

I didn't read it that way at all. Besides questioning the decision making process of certain trustees, they can then use the info in the meetings. If the trustees still want to pretend the info doesn't matter, then the trustees still have other avenues. This is the beginnings of a concerted board coup with fiduciary duties as the main focal point. Given the dollars involved, the bot better hope Freeh was air tight in his investigation or this could get really ugly for some members.

BTW, I completely forgot to mention the insurance company was one of the cases, and they are calling bs on the report. That right there could provide a whole host of problems for some members.

Thanks. I haven't been able to open the link yet but got concerned when I saw that the alumni may have offered some confidentiality agreement.

 

[PennSt8er]

If there's a gag order or some confidentiality agreement between the sides then what the alumni trustees are allowed to see will never see the light of day. The alumni reps won't be able to push back in any meaningful way.

There are many ways the alumni trustees can push back and still be confidential.

 

[simons96]

There are many ways the alumni trustees can push back and still be confidential.

hard to ignore the disgusting irony of the old guard BoT trying to argue that the alumni trustees will use Freeh's work product in a negative, political manner

 

[PSUSignore]

Dropbox link isn't working for me, is it dead?

 

[Zenophile]

Dropbox link isn't working for me, is it dead?

Link worked for me just now.

 

[baircub1!]

I didn't read it that way at all. Besides questioning the decision making process of certain trustees, they can then use the info in the meetings. If the trustees still want to pretend the info doesn't matter, then the trustees still have other avenues. This is the beginnings of a concerted board coup with fiduciary duties as the main focal point. Given the dollars involved, the bot better hope Freeh was air tight in his investigation or this could get really ugly for some members.

BTW, I completely forgot to mention the insurance company was one of the cases, and they are calling bs on the report. That right there could provide a whole host of problems for some members.

And I would bet... It's the Insurance Company Lawsuit that has most terrified... Can't help but think in all of their irrational decisions ... They really felt any $$$ tolled out to victims would be covered... 100% or ateast a great deal of the money. What happens if it's not the case ? Fresh report a fraud... Insurance Company wins their suit ? Who pays then ? Wow maybe this is what they are really really so afraid about...

And would love to read the actual language given to the victims in their settlements or agreements... " you get this $$ but you can't do or say this..."

The Freeh report....it's everything ... And those that may have " coordinated" it... Talk about getting ugly.

 

[bwifan]

And I would bet... It's the Insurance Company Lawsuit that has most terrified... Can't help but think in all of their irrational decisions ... They really felt any $$$ tolled out to victims would be covered... 100% or ateast a great deal of the money. What happens if it's not the case ? Fresh report a fraud... Insurance Company wins their suit ? Who pays then ? Wow maybe this is what they are really really so afraid about...

And would love to read the actual language given to the victims in their settlements or agreements... " you get this $$ but you can't do or say this..."

The Freeh report....it's everything ... And those that may have " coordinated" it... Talk about getting ugly.

Would be interested to hear some of the legals chime on this... interesting if it is possible. Someone could be on the hook for a HUGE chunk of cash mainly PSU if this is possible...

 

[Aoshiro]

And I would bet... It's the Insurance Company Lawsuit that has most terrified... Can't help but think in all of their irrational decisions ... They really felt any $$$ tolled out to victims would be covered... 100% or ateast a great deal of the money. What happens if it's not the case ? Fresh report a fraud... Insurance Company wins their suit ? Who pays then ? Wow maybe this is what they are really really so afraid about...

And would love to read the actual language given to the victims in their settlements or agreements... " you get this $$ but you can't do or say this..."

The Freeh report....it's everything ... And those that may have " coordinated" it... Talk about getting ugly.

If they believed that the insurance company would pay they were delusional. I bet a lot of those victims had zero contact with Penn State and were only involved with Sandusky through The Second Mile.

 

[bjf1984]

If they believed that the insurance company would pay they were delusional. I bet a lot of those victims had zero contact with Penn State and were only involved with Sandusky through The Second Mile.

Agree.....only a complete imbecile would think the Insurance Company (barring some type of back room deal) would reimburse.

These guys are truly evil, dangerous Scoundrels....which means they are NOT (unfortunately) COMPLETE imbeciles (complete imbeciles would be relatively harmless).

The "don't worry about the money, we'll get reimbursed via insurance" was the best ruse they could come up with - to try to hold the dogs at bay. It provided some marginal benefit to them......for a while. May have even fooled some of the other BOT members....was certainly enough to pacify the sheep on the Board.
You think those Ag dopes, and the circa 2011 Elected dopes would be hard to pacify? "Sure Kenny. Whatever you say. That sounds right to me. When do we eat?".

But, sooner or later, that gig was going to expire.

 

[flash86]

I didn't read it that way at all. Besides questioning the decision making process of certain trustees, they can then use the info in the meetings. If the trustees still want to pretend the info doesn't matter, then the trustees still have other avenues. This is the beginnings of a concerted board coup with fiduciary duties as the main focal point. Given the dollars involved, the bot better hope Freeh was air tight in his investigation or this could get really ugly for some members.

BTW, I completely forgot to mention the insurance company was one of the cases, and they are calling bs on the report. That right there could provide a whole host of problems for some members.

I would think the insurance company can require the University to provide any and all documentation that the University did the right thing to justify reimbursement. Because of that, I would not be at all surprised to see this lawsuit dropped by the BoT.

 

[91Joe95]

And I would bet... It's the Insurance Company Lawsuit that has most terrified... Can't help but think in all of their irrational decisions ... They really felt any $$$ tolled out to victims would be covered... 100% or ateast a great deal of the money. What happens if it's not the case ? Fresh report a fraud... Insurance Company wins their suit ? Who pays then ? Wow maybe this is what they are really really so afraid about...

And would love to read the actual language given to the victims in their settlements or agreements... " you get this $$ but you can't do or say this..."

The Freeh report....it's everything ... And those that may have " coordinated" it... Talk about getting ugly.

The problem with the insurance going forward isn't whether or not PSU could settle with them, they can. The real problem is now you have a group of trustees who now can credibly say they had vital information either withheld or misrepresented on the first go around. It puts the rest of the trustees in a catch 22, either press on with the lawsuit with the insurance and take your chances, or admit to potentially fraudulent behavior.

 

[jjsocrates]

The "don't worry about the money, we'll get reimbursed via insurance" was the best ruse they could come up with - to try to hold the dogs at bay. It provided some marginal benefit to them......for a while. May have even fooled some of the other BOT members....was certainly enough to pacify the sheep on the Board.

I'm one of those Business Shadenfreude types, who likes to read books on and analyze case studies of when corrupt organizations/corporations that were finally brought down to their knees (think Financial Meltdown of 2008-2009, etc. Those of you who know me might know why I find these stories interesting)...

The one common thread in all of those stories is that the really evil, corrupt, lying, stealing do-anything-to-win types are SO damn delusional, that they will use all of their resources (and the resouces of their organizations - which they might not be entitled to) to fight tooth and nail to the very bitter end. Think Dick Fuld of Lehman Brothers, Hank Greenburg of AIG, Angelo Mozilo of Countrywide - they did everything they could to maneuver, delay, and hide their malfeasance until the very bitter end when everything exploded in a flash. And even after getting completely exposed, they still cling to their false narrative.

IF, no WHEN, the Freeh files are exposed and the truth comes out, the dominoes will fall FAST. It will be the equivalent of cleaning an infestation by doing a complete full-house fumigation. Yet, Peetz, Frazier, etc will never admit to wrongdoing, even when the facts are flung out there for all to see and the personal lawsuits against them begin.

 

[bjf1984]

I'm one of those Business Shadenfreude types, who likes to read books on and analyze case studies of when corrupt organizations/corporations that were finally brought down to their knees (think Financial Meltdown of 2008-2009, etc. Those of you who know me might know why I find these stories interesting)...

The one common thread in all of those stories is that the really evil, corrupt, lying, stealing do-anything-to-win types are SO damn delusional, that they will use all of their resources (and the resouces of their organizations - which they might not be entitled to) to fight tooth and nail to the very bitter end. Think Dick Fuld of Lehman Brothers, Hank Greenburg of AIG, Angelo Mozilo of Countrywide - they did everything they could to maneuver, delay, and hide their malfeasance until the very bitter end when everything exploded in a flash. And even after getting completely exposed, they still cling to their false narrative.

IF, no WHEN, the Freeh files are exposed and the truth comes out, the dominoes will fall FAST. It will be the equivalent of cleaning an infestation by doing a complete full-house fumigation. Yet, Peetz, Frazier, etc will never admit to wrongdoing, even when the facts are flung out there for all to see and the personal lawsuits against them begin.

BTW.....did you see what the Volkswagon Chief did today/yesterday? Shocking.

 

[Fayette_LION]

I am not all all surprised with the quality of PSU's response. They have nothing to work with. Their strategy has been to deny and delay. IMO, the house of cards is getting ready to fall and the end is near. Penn State has a week to respond and it should be very interesting. I don't believe anything will change over this next week and the quality of their response will be no better than it was at the hearing.

When all you've got is mud, you need to throw as much as you can against the wall and hope some sticks. Hopefully the Judge will see through it and provide a quick ruling

 

[PennSt8er]

I'm one of those Business Shadenfreude types, who likes to read books on and analyze case studies of when corrupt organizations/corporations that were finally brought down to their knees (think Financial Meltdown of 2008-2009, etc. Those of you who know me might know why I find these stories interesting)...

The one common thread in all of those stories is that the really evil, corrupt, lying, stealing do-anything-to-win types are SO damn delusional, that they will use all of their resources (and the resouces of their organizations - which they might not be entitled to) to fight tooth and nail to the very bitter end. Think Dick Fuld of Lehman Brothers, Hank Greenburg of AIG, Angelo Mozilo of Countrywide - they did everything they could to maneuver, delay, and hide their malfeasance until the very bitter end when everything exploded in a flash. And even after getting completely exposed, they still cling to their false narrative.

IF, no WHEN, the Freeh files are exposed and the truth comes out, the dominoes will fall FAST. It will be the equivalent of cleaning an infestation by doing a complete full-house fumigation. Yet, Peetz, Frazier, etc will never admit to wrongdoing, even when the facts are flung out there for all to see and the personal lawsuits against them begin.

^^^ this

 

[lionville]

Is there a possibility that someone gets prosecuted for insurance fraud when the Freeh report is exposed as the work of fiction that it is? Could that be one of the things the old boys fear?

 

[lubrano]

The Judge has committed to rule by the end of October. But first, both parties have until 9-29-15 to file briefs and 10-8-15 to respond.

 

[wensilver]

I'm one of those Business Shadenfreude types, who likes to read books on and analyze case studies of when corrupt organizations/corporations that were finally brought down to their knees (think Financial Meltdown of 2008-2009, etc. Those of you who know me might know why I find these stories interesting)...

The one common thread in all of those stories is that the really evil, corrupt, lying, stealing do-anything-to-win types are SO damn delusional, that they will use all of their resources (and the resouces of their organizations - which they might not be entitled to) to fight tooth and nail to the very bitter end. Think Dick Fuld of Lehman Brothers, Hank Greenburg of AIG, Angelo Mozilo of Countrywide - they did everything they could to maneuver, delay, and hide their malfeasance until the very bitter end when everything exploded in a flash. And even after getting completely exposed, they still cling to their false narrative.

IF, no WHEN, the Freeh files are exposed and the truth comes out, the dominoes will fall FAST. It will be the equivalent of cleaning an infestation by doing a complete full-house fumigation. Yet, Peetz, Frazier, etc will never admit to wrongdoing, even when the facts are flung out there for all to see and the personal lawsuits against them begin.

THIS ^^ - and add to the mix the personal fav in our household - John Mack of Morgan Stanley: http://www.rollingstone.com/politic...foot-in-mouth-complains-of-ceo-abuse-20140213

 

[Victor E. Bell]

The Judge has committed to rule by the end of October.

Were you able to pin him down on a year?

 

[PennSt8er]

The Judge has committed to rule by the end of October. But first, both parties have until 9-29-15 to file briefs and 10-8-15 to respond.

Oh goodie. Can't wait to see the brilliant legal work of the Old Main legal buffoonery team. Should be a good read. Maybe they will cite the right to bear arms as a defense.