Chambers deserves all the credit for what he has done with the #5 spot. Last nite PSU got 13 points and 12 boards from the 2 centers. I think we got a double- double from this spot for the last half dozen games. When Harrah wasn't starting, PSU never knew what they were gonna get from Watkins, he was so inconsistent. In my opinion, Watkins has actually played better coming off the bench. In this conference you need atLEAST 2 solid 5 spots...
All of you Chambers haters, I’m calling you out!
- Thread starter Ranger Dan
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But the upward trajectory should show in the results....and for the most part it hasn’t. If the Chambers supporters can’t see why fans would have had concerns after the past 8 years, then I don’t know what to say.
I never said fans shouldn't have had concerns the past 8 years, I did myself. But that doesn't mean I just ignored overall progress and trajectory beyond Ws and Ls. If it were the football program, I would say sure, it has to show up in wins and losses, because we're a prestige program. But for hoops, where he's trying to build something sustainable brick by brick, I think it requires a different view of trajectory and progress.
Not what I said. I said it's unfair to say "they did it" without a longer track record to show if this is a one-off or something sustainable being built. I'm also not saying this season is the reason to support Pat, I'm saying its the steady progress over 9 years that is culminating with this that is the reason to. Now, if he doesn't make it back in the next 4 years, then he's done. On a year-to-year basis we're likely to step back next year, but I'm still following the overall line graph, not one year to the next.
He made the tournament in his first year with all Parkhill recruits. Parkhill stepped down right before that season started. The 2001 sweet 16 run was magical, but that team was only 7-9 in the Big Ten and 19-11 overall heading into the dance. The rules for getting an invite were different back then. Chambers team two years ago was 9-9 in the B1G and had 21 wins heading into the NIT. The DeChellis team that made the dance was 18-14 going into the NCAA tournament and also 9-9 in the B1G.
So, while on the surface, it's true Dunn made the tournament twice and DeChellis made the tournament once (sooner than Chambers), there is clearly more to look at when comparing these three coaches.
Dunn had a great squad gift wrapped to him and he trended downward quickly.
DeChellis did fine and I liked him as a coach. But looking back, he was building teams that had little foundation. He caught some luck with landing Battle (who broke both ankles in high school and big schools backed off).
Chambers has been slowly building a foundation brick by brick. Remains to be seen how it holds up long term. But it finally feels different to me.
You can disagree and choose to only point at one single data point (tournament invites) if you want. That's your choice as a fan. I will disagree and try to dig deeper and hopefully someday I can point to this post and say I told you so.
Yep, Pat did a good job of adding transfer players that have impacted this year's team.
Maybe he can find a transfer front court player that could contribute next season, as that looks to be the biggest need looking forward now....
Tony Carr leaving early for the draft was the worst thing that happened to this team the past couple of years. Had he stayed we most likely would have made the dance last year... he was that important to this team. Also Watkins not playing till midway through the season hurt, by the time he was able to come back it was too late and he was too rusty to contribute effectively.
Does a Juco transfer count? Because he has already done that.
Yep, he does have a JC front court player coming. Hope he is ready to play as there will be big holes in the front court next season. On defense and especially scoring. Granted Lundy will be a better scorer next season, and likely a better rebounder and defender as well. But Lundy is more of a swing player than a true front court player. So it's not just at Center where the front court need is. But PSU needs a big forward as well......
I hope you can say I told you so too. I keep reading the posters on here sayin he’s been building something sustainable....that means we should see the results into the future. So if making the tournament is not the measure of success, what will be?
It's taken what feels like forever for Chambers to build what he has now, but making PSU a sustainable B1G contender wasn't a short term project. It was a unique project and if we see sustained success over the next decade with multiple tournament appearances, maybe a couple runs to the sweet 16, the length of time will be forgotten. I just know last night there were times when Penn State was running up and down the court with college basketball giant Michigan State on their home floor and we looked like we had the better athletes. That's historical. That's what Pat Chambers has built. We have guys that are borderline NBA players now. Josh Reaves is on the Mavs roster. Tim Frazier has made a career as a backup pg. Tony Carr was drafted. Lamar is going to get a serious look in the NBA. This is all new stuff for PSU hoops. We're ranked. Put together a run in the tournament and get our school on the minds of the upper tier recruits and see where this thing can go. PSU basketball fans have been waiting a lifetime for this.
So if Pat went eight years before making the tournament, then makes it this year, then fails to make it the next three years....and Rutgers went three years without making it, then makes it this year, then goes the next three without making it, which coach had more success?
Unfortunately, the only thing that those folks could see was the W/L record. People who could look beyond that were able to appreciate the groundwork that Chambers was building in order to make this program successful in the long run.
Rutgers. If all Pat has built doesn’t actually amount to anything sustainable, then it was a waste. I don’t believe that will be the case though.
DeChellis was not good for the program overall. Full stop.
The criticism of Dunn was unfair, although I do not think there was any choice but to fire him in 2003. It seemed like he became disenchanted after the 2001 contract disputes.
I think they will be pretty good next year behind M. Jones and hopefully he stays the following year as well. If he doesn’t, then who knows.
And coming off a tournament season, most likely. That's how close this program has been with Pat
But our squad would look different (ie, no Myreon and/or Curtis Jones).
But yes, we’d be really good.
Yep, speaking nothing of Mitchel and other philly-area players (is lovely the Bellefonte guy??). Camden too. Recruiting is stacked
Certainly will be a drop off, but we should still have some pieces and depth. NIT in our rebuilding year would be a step in the right direction
Lively is from Bellefonte and playing at the Westtown School outside of Philly right now. Current HS Soph. He's ranked 23rd in the country in 247 and Rivals just ranked him 47th in the country. His mother is a PSU Alum, former Lady Lion basketball player, and currently works for Intercollegiate Athletics in the marketing department. We were the first school to offer him, back in April of his freshman year.
Everyone will be on him, and there is also the chance he skips college, but we've certainly got some advantages with him that we've never had with a player of his caliber.
Yeah, I'm well aware of who you're talking about. I thought that was lively, but just making sure. Thank you
That's another example of people who can only see W/L. There was too much going on behind the scenes with Dunn. Curley was ready to can him in 2001, when the team went on the run that saved his job. Curley had no option but to extend Dunn even though he didn't want to.
1. Don't ever change Cliff Claven. Your linguistic nitpicking truly enhances the dialogue here
2. Accepting that your ego never allows you to budge, even slightly, is a big step. Good for you buddy!
Rokk!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! No clue if you know who I'm talking about, but I only know one guy who ever used the term Spud POTY for Kevin Fellows.
I think we are better without Carr. He was the single best player on the team, but he didn’t always make other players better.
I think we are now to the point where making the tournament is the measure of success. I said before this season he had to make it this year or it was over. Due to the constraints which still burden our program (I know many frequently call these excuses, but they are reality: pitiful funding, poor facilities, no tradition, no history), I think making the tournament every ~3 years is a fair expectation moving forward.
I not complaining
I’m supporting the coach
Not sure why you responded in the manner sir.
Rokk had a unique posting style. Nobody could mistake you for Rokk. Unless Rokk took lots of classes in english and forum etiquette since I last saw him post.
Yes, and wasn't Curley interested in Jay Wright (mutual interest?)? So as awesome as it was going to the sweet 16, that run might have cost us ...... a lot.
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