7-5, with this schedule, is a disappointment.

[fairgambit]

I thought we would win 9. Winning 8 would have been acceptable. 7 is underachieving. I am not saying fire Franklin, although the jury is still out on whether he is a good game coach. He deserves more time. Baring a total collapse next season, I would give him 3 more years. Beyond him, there is plenty of blame to go around and few of the assistants, or players, should not share in it. I don't care how good MSU is, the play today was inexcusable. I will be optimistic and say that I think we will see significant improvement in the bowl game. If we see anything resembling today's disaster, I will have serious doubts about the future of this program.

 

[Nashville Lion]

Honestly if we had defeated Northwestern and Temple, I would have been super happy. Those are two teams we should have defeated. and of course we should have kept it closer today. Total embarrassment.

 

[lionlurker]

Agreed. One more win would have made all the difference.

I get that the offense was handcuffed, but do something about it. To go into next season with no changes is not acceptable.

 

[NittPicker]

MSU - 11-1
OSU - 11-1
NW - 10-2
Michigan - 9-3
Temple - 10-2 if they beat UConn

That's a combined 51-9 for the teams which beat us. We won the games we should have won and lost the ones we should have lost with the exception of Northwestern which we gave away.

 

[Eurotrash1]

More embarrassment than disappointment.

 

[JDale83]

I am not a Franklin fan but you have to give him three more years. We need stability and players that fit his system. Obviously he is not a great x and o guy but given time, he might be able to get us competitive again. I'd be fine with 8-4/9-3 as long as we are able to compete with the Big Ten. Let's face it we are clearly outclassed by the Michigan, Michigan states and Ohio states. It will be a long time until we can beat all three in a year. Just comparing our staff with those three programs is not pretty. Even comparing them to any top twenty staff is challenging. Unfortunately, it looks like we need to be content with the capital one bowl an perhaps a top 25 as a good year.

 

[NovaPSULuvr]

FG...I was with you initially. And 7-5 is disappointing as I thought 8-4 and maybe 9-3. I am more convinced tonight that CJF is not a good coach (game day or otherwise). 3 more years is way generous. I am surrounded by a room of folks willing to give him one more year - and I am not that generous. He and his staff are way outmatched week in and week out. Should he choose not to make changes with his current staff, that's all I will need. I have seen about as much as I can take.

 

[wilykyote]

Being soft and non competitive against the better teams is embarassing. We are bad in every phase of the game. Even in winnable games, like NW, we play our worst in crunch time. Bad, bad everywhere.

 

[JoeDidntKnow]

It's gonna be tough for CJF. No shortage of good teams on future schedules.

 

[joeparules]

MSU - 11-1
OSU - 11-1
NW - 10-2
Michigan - 9-3
Temple - 10-2 if they beat UConn

That's a combined 51-9 for the teams which beat us. We won the games we should have won and lost the ones we should have lost with the exception of Northwestern which we gave away.

Completely agree. Not sure how many other teams with a winning record have played five teams currently ranked!?

I know these are just excuses, but with this OL, the lack of depth and injuries at key positions not sure what people expect.

 

[Eurotrash1]

I love you suck more than we suck debates!

 

[fairgambit]

MSU - 11-1
OSU - 11-1
NW - 10-2
Michigan - 9-3
Temple - 10-2 if they beat UConn

That's a combined 51-9 for the teams which beat us. We won the games we should have won and lost the ones we should have lost with the exception of Northwestern which we gave away.

No doubt we lost to good teams, but the play in the losses, and some of the wins, was unacceptable. We did nothing to distinguish ourselves. Even the most die hard Penn State fan had to be embarrassed with our performance today. I expected more.

 

[rudedude]

Just a reminder to all the friggin critics on this board who all have memory loss:

Former Miami (Fla.) coach Jimmy Johnson tweeted that Penn State will be "no better than (Division II) for many years." ESPNanalyst Kirk Herbstreit said it will take the school a decade to be competitive. Former Penn State standout Kyle Brady said his alma mater's program will be irrelevant for most of his 7-year-old son's teenage years.

"Had the death penalty been for one year, maybe it would not have been as bad as this …," Brady said by phone. "All teams have mountains to climb. This one is as big as any anyone has had to climb. There's still the stigma, the damage to the brand; to add this is going to be devastating for a long time."


Penn State will be limited to 15 scholarships for football recruits annually (reduced from the standard cap of 25) each season for four years. The team will be limited to an overall total of 65 scholarships during the four-year period.

The University of Southern California faced a two-year bowl ban as part of its 2010 penalties for recruiting violations, but athletic director Pat Haden said the loss of scholarships hurt the most.

"You have to be very judicious in recruiting," he said in a statement. "You have to be lucky with injuries, and you have to guard your roster from players being recruited by other schools. It is an inexact science, and you have to do the best you can."
Penn State will be limited to 15 scholarships for football recruits annually (reduced from the standard cap of 25) each season for four years. The team will be limited to an overall total of 65 scholarships during the four-year period.

The University of Southern California faced a two-year bowl ban as part of its 2010 penalties for recruiting violations, but athletic director Pat Haden said the loss of scholarships hurt the most.

Re-read that last line. So anyone who says don't blame sanctions is a fool.

 

[danvillenit]

Posters who want to fire JF have no idea what they are talking about. I'm sure the message to recruits that we turn over coaches after 2 rebuilding and winning years will really impress them. Nothing like the stability of a5th coach in six years would be helpful

 

[fairgambit]

FG...I was with you initially. And 7-5 is disappointing as I thought 8-4 and maybe 9-3. I am more convinced tonight that CJF is not a good coach (game day or otherwise). 3 more years is way generous. I am surrounded by a room of folks willing to give him one more year - and I am not that generous. He and his staff are way outmatched week in and week out. Should he choose not to make changes with his current staff, that's all I will need. I have seen about as much as I can take.

I just don't think we can be the kind of place where you fire a coach after 2 years. I guess it really doesn't matter. There is no way he won't be around for at least 2 more, regardless of his record.

 

[psu00]

I thought we would win 9. Winning 8 would have been acceptable. 7 is underachieving. I am not saying fire Franklin, although the jury is still out on whether he is a good game coach. He deserves more time. Baring a total collapse next season, I would give him 3 more years. Beyond him, there is plenty of blame to go around and few of the assistants, or players, should not share in it. I don't care how good MSU is, the play today was inexcusable. I will be optimistic and say that I think we will see significant improvement in the bowl game. If we see anything resembling today's disaster, I will have serious doubts about the future of this program.

I agree. I don't have the time or desire to go back to the preseason posts but it's funny that many who were saying 9- 10 wins this year are now suddenly throwing out excuses and getting upset when there are posts saying 7-5 is a disappointment. . To me it's not so much the wins/ losses but in how the team is playing and if they are improving. Losses to OSU, MSU and Michigan were expected by most I think but the team isn't even competitive in these games. 55-16. Ugghhhh. You know it's bad when even Blackledge is calling out the coaches and team on Twitter.

 

[MartyInLawrenceville]

Trust me, as a Pitt fan, I know plenty about coaching carousels. They suck, and handcuff any kind of progress, both on and off of the field. Recruits don't feel comfortable coming to your school, b/c chances are the coach that recruits them won't be there for his college career. With that said, Franklin gets 3 more years. Fairgambit, you're spot on, though. It's not that Penn State has lost, it's how they lost. I get the whole sanctions thing, but there have been a lot of times where the team has looked lost or plain disinterested. For PSU fans, that has to be troubling.

 

[fairgambit]

Trust me, as a Pitt fan, I know plenty about coaching carousels. They suck, and handcuff any kind of progress, both on and off of the field. Recruits don't feel comfortable coming to your school, b/c chances are the coach that recruits them won't be there for his college career. With that said, Franklin gets 3 more years. Fairgambit, you're spot on, though. It's not that Penn State has lost, it's how they lost. I get the whole sanctions thing, but there have been a lot of times where the team has looked lost or plain disinterested. For PSU fans, that has to be troubling.

It is not often I agree with a Pitt fan who visits here, but I agree with you. If we had lost today 35-17, and played well, losing to a superior team, I'd say we were making progress. This was a total disaster and there is no sugar coating it. We have to do much better in the bowl game.

 

[Westcoast24]

I just don't think we can be the kind of place where you fire a coach after 2 years. I guess it really doesn't matter. There is no way he won't be around for at least 2 more, regardless of his record.

You have to give JF at least two more years. Good classes coming in. I'm not sold on game day coaching yet but you still have to give him time. Again JMO

 

[BobPSU92]

 

[ILLINOISLION]

I remain convinced that if we had beaten Northwestern that would have carried over and we would have beaten Michigan.

Sorry, MSU Is good, but not that good. Crap, if PSU can put up 400+ yds of offense, anybody can.

IOWA WILL BEAT MSU!

 

[VaNtyLion]

I thought we would win 9. Winning 8 would have been acceptable. 7 is underachieving. I am not saying fire Franklin, although the jury is still out on whether he is a good game coach. He deserves more time. Baring a total collapse next season, I would give him 3 more years. Beyond him, there is plenty of blame to go around and few of the assistants, or players, should not share in it. I don't care how good MSU is, the play today was inexcusable. I will be optimistic and say that I think we will see significant improvement in the bowl game. If we see anything resembling today's disaster, I will have serious doubts about the future of this program.

Let's start with the premise that even with a healthy roster, this was a borderline top 25 team at best with the 8-4 or 9-3 preseason predictions. That much was fair and reasonable looking at the schedule.

What no one foresaw was Temple being legit top 25 team, NW being a legit 10 win team and Michigan playing like a top 15 team most of the season. That PSU struggled mightily with MSU and OSU was hardly surprising - these were two games in August that everyone had the biggest talent gap for PSU. Losses in those games were a given.

PSU losing 5 given the OL issues (which is not a quick fix no matter what fantasy world people live in to wish it so) and mounting injuries on D is probably not that surprising in hindsight.

No Nassib past 2 games (and 4th quarter protecting a lead vs. NW) hurt. No Lucas the past 3 games hurt. No Sickels today compounded that....and no Wartman all year plus Bell dealing with injuries throughout compounded the issues forcing backups into prominent roles where inconsistent play was going to be a problem. Having to start 8 different OL combos in 12 games hurt.

Why was all of this a factor? Sanctions had a much bigger impact on depth on BOTH sides of the ball than anyone would admit (and that completely ignores special teams which was a huge factor as well)...and that is a lot of what we're dealing with in these 5 losses. We can whine about coaching all we want but until this staff has built back up what was lost we're not an apples to apples roster with other teams, particularly those that are ranked in the here and now.

 

[john4psu]

I remain convinced that if we had beaten Northwestern that would have carried over and we would have beaten Michigan.

Sorry, MSU Is good, but not that good. Crap, if PSU can put up 400+ yds of offense, anybody can.

IOWA WILL BEAT MSU!

And then undefeated Ohio State gained 132 yards at home vs. Michigan State. Explain that. That was no fluke.

 

[psu00]

Trust me, as a Pitt fan, I know plenty about coaching carousels. They suck, and handcuff any kind of progress, both on and off of the field. Recruits don't feel comfortable coming to your school, b/c chances are the coach that recruits them won't be there for his college career. With that said, Franklin gets 3 more years. Fairgambit, you're spot on, though. It's not that Penn State has lost, it's how they lost. I get the whole sanctions thing, but there have been a lot of times where the team has looked lost or plain disinterested. For PSU fans, that has to be troubling.

I can't believe I'm agreeing with a Pitt fan () but your second to last statement is what troubles me the most. They often do look lost or just disinterested. That's unacceptable and has nothing to do with sanctions. It reminded me a lot of the Eagles game on Thanksgiving.

 

[Safety Blitz]

I thought we would win 9. Winning 8 would have been acceptable. 7 is underachieving. I am not saying fire Franklin, although the jury is still out on whether he is a good game coach. He deserves more time. Baring a total collapse next season, I would give him 3 more years. Beyond him, there is plenty of blame to go around and few of the assistants, or players, should not share in it. I don't care how good MSU is, the play today was inexcusable. I will be optimistic and say that I think we will see significant improvement in the bowl game. If we see anything resembling today's disaster, I will have serious doubts about the future of this program.

For me, anything more than seven wins with the offensive line talent available, the youth at certain positions, the Injuries and lack of depth would have had a major surprise. Some of these teams were flat out better.

 

[fairgambit]

Let's start with the premise that even with a healthy roster, this was a borderline top 25 team at best with the 8-4 or 9-3 preseason predictions. That much was fair and reasonable looking at the schedule.

What no one foresaw was Temple being legit top 25 team, NW being a legit 10 win team and Michigan playing like a top 15 team most of the season. That PSU struggled mightily with MSU and OSU was hardly surprising - these were two games in August that everyone had the biggest talent gap for PSU. Losses in those games were a given.

PSU losing 5 given the OL issues (which is not a quick fix no matter what fantasy world people live in to wish it so) and mounting injuries on D is probably not that surprising in hindsight.

No Nassib past 2 games (and 4th quarter protecting a lead vs. NW) hurt. No Lucas the past 3 games hurt. No Sickels today compounded that....and no Wartman all year plus Bell dealing with injuries throughout compounded the issues forcing backups into prominent roles where inconsistent play was going to be a problem. Having to start 8 different OL combos in 12 games hurt.

Why was all of this a factor? Sanctions had a much bigger impact on depth on BOTH sides of the ball than anyone would admit (and that completely ignores special teams which was a huge factor as well)...and that is a lot of what we're dealing with in these 5 losses. We can whine about coaching all we want but until this staff has built back up what was lost we're not an apples to apples roster with other teams, particularly those that are ranked in the here and now.

That's a fair assessment, and perhaps today's disaster is coloring my judgment, but even with sanctions, this team did not play as well as it should have.

 

[fairgambit]

For me, anything more than seven wins with the offensive line talent available, the youth at certain positions, the Injuries and lack of depth would have had a major surprise. Some of these teams were flat out better.

I guess to me, wins aside, there is no excuse for a performance like today.

 

[Pittston-Lion]

7-5 with 5 teams ranked in the top 25 after 13 weeks is about as good as should be expected in a first year off sanctions.

 

[NewYC]

I think so too, but predictions go out the window when a team with no depth has a number of key injuries. All in all I thought they were slightly better this year than last, but the last lost was pretty embarrassing.

I thought we would win 9. Winning 8 would have been acceptable. 7 is underachieving. I am not saying fire Franklin, although the jury is still out on whether he is a good game coach. He deserves more time. Baring a total collapse next season, I would give him 3 more years. Beyond him, there is plenty of blame to go around and few of the assistants, or players, should not share in it. I don't care how good MSU is, the play today was inexcusable. I will be optimistic and say that I think we will see significant improvement in the bowl game. If we see anything resembling today's disaster, I will have serious doubts about the future of this program.

 

[JoeDidntKnow]

Just a reminder to all the friggin critics on this board who all have memory loss:

Former Miami (Fla.) coach Jimmy Johnson tweeted that Penn State will be "no better than (Division II) for many years." ESPNanalyst Kirk Herbstreit said it will take the school a decade to be competitive. Former Penn State standout Kyle Brady said his alma mater's program will be irrelevant for most of his 7-year-old son's teenage years.

"Had the death penalty been for one year, maybe it would not have been as bad as this …," Brady said by phone. "All teams have mountains to climb. This one is as big as any anyone has had to climb. There's still the stigma, the damage to the brand; to add this is going to be devastating for a long time."


Penn State will be limited to 15 scholarships for football recruits annually (reduced from the standard cap of 25) each season for four years. The team will be limited to an overall total of 65 scholarships during the four-year period.

The University of Southern California faced a two-year bowl ban as part of its 2010 penalties for recruiting violations, but athletic director Pat Haden said the loss of scholarships hurt the most.

"You have to be very judicious in recruiting," he said in a statement. "You have to be lucky with injuries, and you have to guard your roster from players being recruited by other schools. It is an inexact science, and you have to do the best you can."
Penn State will be limited to 15 scholarships for football recruits annually (reduced from the standard cap of 25) each season for four years. The team will be limited to an overall total of 65 scholarships during the four-year period.

The University of Southern California faced a two-year bowl ban as part of its 2010 penalties for recruiting violations, but athletic director Pat Haden said the loss of scholarships hurt the most.

Re-read that last line. So anyone who says don't blame sanctions is a fool.

The sanctions were the worst ever handed down and they were UNJUST and CRIMINAL. Thanks Rod and BOT. You tried to bring down a once powerful program but the kids fought back and wouldn't let you kill football off at PSU

 

[VaNtyLion]

That's a fair assessment, and perhaps today's disaster is coloring my judgment, but even with sanctions, this team did not play as well as it should have.

"Should have" is highly subjective opinion.

If we were to know in August that
- 3 teams (Temple, UM and NW) we figured to have an advantage over on paper would turn out to be legit top 20 teams with stout defenses and combine to lose 7 games out of 36, what should we have expected when we chalked those games up as sure W's?

- the D would lose Wartman for the year and Bell play hobbled much of the year, what should we have expected from LB corps? There was basically no depth there in terms of experience.

- the secondary would be made up almost entirely of underclassmen...what should we have expected in terms of consistency from their decision making and tackling?

- the OL would need to shuffle pretty much constantly, what should we have expected from them. The talent there is still young and whether correct decisions were made to redshirt better players is a determination to be made in another 2 years. Paterno never would have thrust a true or RS freshman into the starting lineup a day too early...why should we be giving Franklin a hard time because he decided to hold some of these kids back?

I'm as bummed about the record as any but also don't think there was much of a prayer for a team that was at 65 scholies a year ago to be sitting on the threshold of 8-9 sure wins given the quality of the 5 teams those losses came to.

 

[Safety Blitz]

I guess to me, wins aside, there is no excuse for a performance like today.

You win some. You lose some.
Sometimes you crush your opponent.
Sometimes you get your a$$ kicked.
Today was one of those days. The better team was a lot better.
Embarrassing? Maybe, but I got over it after about 15 minutes.

 

[KC-KS-Lion]

I don't think Franklin is a dummy.

I may be wrong, but I feel a failure at Penn State will affect his ability to get anything near this level or have leverage with a new job to ask for this or that.

Even if the end is the same, you have to give Franklin another two years to avoid the reputation that comes with acting otherwise.

Hopefully he makes some changes to staff and philosophy.

After two years, I'd hire the entire Temple staff.

 

[fairgambit]

.......................................
After two years, I'd hire the entire Temple staff.

In two years the present Temple staff will be gone and what will be there would be better equipped to coach in a men's flag football league.

 

[psuno1]

Will take 7-5 could have been 5-7 real easy, Maryland and Army could have been L's. Win the bowl and keep the recruits with have.

 

[fairgambit]

Will take 7-5 could have been 5-7 real easy, Maryland and Army could have been L's. Win the bowl and keep the recruits with have.

The Bowl is the key. A good win would do a lot for the confidence of the coaches, team, and fans. Another loss like today, which I do not expect, would be a disaster.

 

[kgilbert78]

And then undefeated Ohio State gained 132 yards at home vs. Michigan State. Explain that. That was no fluke.

It's called college football. That's the way it goes sometimes. Remember when PSU kicked the snot physically out of Michigan in the Snow Bowl?? We were getting 5 years a carry on just the line push. The very next week, that same beat-up Michigan team took a very good tOSU team to the woodshed--with Biakabatuka going for 383 yards. It *is* tough to figure sometimes. That's whart makes college football fun.

For the record, I *am* disappointed. But I also am not surprised. When starters go out, the backups aren't quite there yet. That comes from lack of depth and that comes from the sanctions.

 

[blion72]

"Should have" is highly subjective opinion.

If we were to know in August that
- 3 teams (Temple, UM and NW) we figured to have an advantage over on paper would turn out to be legit top 20 teams with stout defenses and combine to lose 7 games out of 36, what should we have expected when we chalked those games up as sure W's?

- the D would lose Wartman for the year and Bell play hobbled much of the year, what should we have expected from LB corps? There was basically no depth there in terms of experience.

- the secondary would be made up almost entirely of underclassmen...what should we have expected in terms of consistency from their decision making and tackling?
- the OL would need to shuffle pretty much constantly, what should we have expected from them. The talent there is still young and whether correct decisions were made to redshirt better players is a determination to be made in another 2 years. Paterno never would have thrust a true or RS freshman into the starting lineup a day too early...why should we be giving Franklin a hard time because he decided to hold some of these kids back?

I'm as bummed about the record as any but also don't think there was much of a prayer for a team that was at 65 scholies a year ago to be sitting on the threshold of 8-9 sure wins given the quality of the 5 teams those losses came to.

you are totally correct here. these injuries to a team with no d1 depth were an enormous impact. with Nassib in at the end we win at NW. If Wartman does not go down we win Temple period. that one injury turned that entire game. I am not real impressed with NW and Temple = both smoke and mirrors teams. without the devastating injuries we go at least 9 wins and probably 10. Ruddock had all day without Nassib in there. even today would have looked different with all our players. every team has injuries but thanks to the illegal sanctions by the ncaa, we don't have the depth now to handle them.

this does not mean I thing JF is a good x-o game day guy. when I saw Vandy play Houston with Franklin, that OFF was very pathetic.

 

[doctornick]

Let's start with the premise that even with a healthy roster, this was a borderline top 25 team at best with the 8-4 or 9-3 preseason predictions. That much was fair and reasonable looking at the schedule.

What no one foresaw was Temple being legit top 25 team, NW being a legit 10 win team and Michigan playing like a top 15 team most of the season. That PSU struggled mightily with MSU and OSU was hardly surprising - these were two games in August that everyone had the biggest talent gap for PSU. Losses in those games were a given.

PSU losing 5 given the OL issues (which is not a quick fix no matter what fantasy world people live in to wish it so) and mounting injuries on D is probably not that surprising in hindsight.

No Nassib past 2 games (and 4th quarter protecting a lead vs. NW) hurt. No Lucas the past 3 games hurt. No Sickels today compounded that....and no Wartman all year plus Bell dealing with injuries throughout compounded the issues forcing backups into prominent roles where inconsistent play was going to be a problem. Having to start 8 different OL combos in 12 games hurt.

Why was all of this a factor? Sanctions had a much bigger impact on depth on BOTH sides of the ball than anyone would admit (and that completely ignores special teams which was a huge factor as well)...and that is a lot of what we're dealing with in these 5 losses. We can whine about coaching all we want but until this staff has built back up what was lost we're not an apples to apples roster with other teams, particularly those that are ranked in the here and now.

Agree totally and would add the beyond horrible punting as a contributing factor.

 

[Option Bob]

I don't understand why anyone should be embarrassed by today's loss. Someone said MSU is "not that good." Really? The Spartans are a bad OOB call from being 12-0; they went into Columbus and, w/o their starting stud QB, defeated the nearly unbeatable Buckeyes. Not that good?

Yes, I'm dejected, disappointed, and a tad depressed that PSU couldn't score from another 1st and goal, but I see with maybe 3 upperclassmen with NFL talent: AJ, Zettel, and Nassib. Maybe Lucas, but he seems to lack speed for the NFL. Yes, I've read and heard thousands of times that Hack "has all the tools," but IMHO, he has yet to unlock the shed to use them. Before some posters get irate, I admire CH for his character and loyalty; I just don't think he is a super stud QB.

I saw a decided underdog team take on the #5 squad in the country on the road on senior day and move the ball pretty well on a great defense. Our QB who doesn't throw many interceptions threw 2 today, 1 an easy TD return. Our usually inept TE gave up another TD on a fumble, and for the 2nd straight week, a ST player fumbles inside our own 10. Maybe those guys are embarrassed, but I'm not. They didn't try to make those errors. Cook had a tipped pass, just as Hack had ... Ours safely hit the ground while theirs was caught and returned for an easy 6. So it goes.

When our current freshmen and sophomores are juniors and seniors, we will be much more competitive with MSU, et al. Franklin is recruiting more speed and athleticism, so I am hopeful that Penn State will be better soon.