What's With the Confederate flag being displayed at the tailgate today?

[Chickenman Testa]

so a learned man can't change his opinions in a space of a decade?

besides, what were the actual actions he took once in office and having had more interaction with abolitionists, Frederick Douglass, etc.

This post was edited on 4/19 12:21 PM by Chickenman Testa

 

[71camaro]

Originally posted by nits74:
The flag should not be allowed to be displayed on University property.


I dislike the flag and what it represents, particularly when it is being flown by northerners. We pretty much know from where they're coming. However, can't agree with the above. Just as much as I agree with the right to burn a flag, I think the rights to fly a flag should be protected no matter. Basic rights.

Dude has a right to fly his flag, but whatever backlash he receives is also warranted and allowed. He is free from harassment by governmental forces, but he is not free from the ramifications it has socially, culturally, etc. People think freedom of speech means freedom to do whatever with no ramification, really it just means no abridgment by the government.

 

[jjsocrates]

Re: Lots of Confederate flags flown in the more rural parts of Pennsy

Originally posted by Southeastern PA Buck:
A Sunday drive through many of our fine counties will provide the casual observer a glimpse at the confederate flag.

If the Confederate Flag is just a bunch of Southerners displaying their heritage, then why is so popular in so many parts of the country that had nothing to do with the Confederacy?

Why is it, in the biggest historical irony of all, that I've seen more Confederate flags in the state of WEST VIRGINIA than in most other states? Think about that for a minute.

Seems like the more RURAL it gets, the more the Confederate flag shows up. I think there is a clear reason for that.

 

[nits74]

Agree, unless it escalates to property damage or physical harm.

 

[jjsocrates]

Re: And I can't believe you are simplistic enough

Originally posted by lobo lion:
to equate flying the Confederate flag with racism. Slavery was not "a massive part of the civil war."

Wow. THAT is revisionist history if I have ever heard it. That MIGHT be the case in Texas, but not in the Deep South. Perhaps somebody missed out on their history books - starting back as far as the Missouri Compromise, which might be a good place to start.

 

[Chickenman Testa]

It's grasping at straws and denial

After all, who wants to defend a society undergirded by human bondage, so apologists for the "Lost Cause" engage in sophistry.

Another common tactic is deflection - let's cite the fact that Northerners were racist too. Well, no shite, but at least the North had outlawed treating blacks as chattel.

I used to get into arguments with Southerners all the time and most are brainwashed on this matter.

Thank God our side won.

 

[nits74]

Re: Thanks, wonder how many times you have actually spent any time in either

Sorry, Fayette Lion. No offense intended. Broad generalization on my part. To answer your question though, I have spent considerable time in both counties in connection with my former job. During my drives I saw a considerable number of confederate flags flying from residences and some even in small places of business. Also on pick-ups, etc.

On another subject, how are the beehives coming along? We had a brief exchange several months back. Hope your luck is improving with them.

 

[cavic]

Anytime, anyplace you silly, fatuous, coward, hypocrite traitor

***

 

[Hotshoe]

Very interesting comments here. Having a historical background I tend to not involve myself with such discussions most times, but. Joe Batters and Nashville make and present some very good points as have others. I personally hate revisionists as they come from an ignorant viewpoint and rarely take previous history into account. It's much like Southerners hating Yankees just because they're Yankees.

The point I would make is that there was very little difference in the folks that actually fought the Civil War. Countless letters home prove that. The fact is, the boys that fought the war didn't have slaves, he'll they couldn't afford one. Furthermore, is it really fair to judge an entire people you don't know who were raised and taught from the dawn of time slavery in many forms was okay? And then the comments about Lincoln wanting a separation and his thought of superiority is no emancipater. Is one not allowed to learn and then change his mind? Is that not exactly what Obama did regarding gay marriage? Is that not what we should strive for? Thousands of years of slavery all over the word do not change overnight. It's not right that it happened, but the labeling and redneck crap is doing no good.

The reference to WV is a good one. Some may not like it, but it is very valid. The flag now stands more for an anti-government stance in that case than a support of a dredded institution. Nothing sticks in my crawl more than the elitist thought of city folk being so much more intelligent than country bumpkins. Or the South is just a bunch of dumbass rednecks. Nothing g could be further from the truth. If you think so, start producing your own milk, cheese and beef.
Posted from Rivals Mobile

 

[razpsu]

Hey we can have a debate with out name calling etc. the guy has the right to fly it
Anywhere. Ban it from university property, now who is the facist?

I had the confederate flag flying on my wall growing up. Half my family was from Texas.
I didn't know about slavery and no one from my family had slaves. Their are many points
Of view. I grew up in sc pa so I can appreciate the history from both sides.

The majority of northerners and southerners did not care about slavery.

The south said they wanted to leave. They were right to do so based on their
Agreement they signed 80 years before.

Lincoln wanted to preserve the union: with or without slavery he didn't care.

He fought against everyone in the north to preserve it as well as the south.

He was right in the end to preserve the union in my opinion. We became the United states for the first time and became what
We are today.

Have your opinions all you want. Just remember the north signed the constitution
With everything in place as it was. The war was fought because the south decided to leave
For many reasons.

So choose what you will but don't force it down to everyone else. Don't rewrite history
As so many try to do today.

This post was edited on 4/19 1:25 PM by razpsu

 

[Hotshoe]

Very well stated razpsu.
Posted from Rivals Mobile

 

[Carl Spackler]

Misinformation and revisionist history displayed on this topic is breathtaking. To engage it is to promote it. Slavery is detestable to most but still goes on, in Africa and the regions around it. I'm not hearing outrage over that?

No one here knows why the tailgate flies a Confederate battle flag, I assume because if they flew the stars and bars most would think it was an early American flag and not know the difference.

Few remember that slavery went on in the north during the entire war in MD and DE at the least. The EP that allegedly freed slaves did so only in the Confederate states in conflict, not the states under Northern control. Is that silly or what?

Pick up "The Real Lincoln" by Tom DiLorenzo for a read of real history. Much of what I see quoted as history (not just here and today but most everywhere) is written with a slant or a bias to one side or party or people, etc. One must read books and other literature written in the day of the conflict to understand all the issues and stances in play. You won't find them in your high school "history" book.

The B & W game was held on a beautiful day, focus on that and allow those to tail gate as display flags as they may. I didn't attend to go flag hunting but to see a glimpse of our upcoming team. I've apparently never walked by the place that is being discussed.

 

[B_Levinson]

Originally posted by auxgym:
The flag should not be allowed to be displayed on University property. It represents slavery to the majority of the population.

The Confederate flag represented slavery for about 4 years. The Stars and Stripes, as flown for example by slave ships, represented slavery for more than "four score and seven" years. A lot of the slave traders were Northerners.

 

[71camaro]

Originally posted by B_Levinson:

Originally posted by auxgym:
The flag should not be allowed to be displayed on University property. It represents slavery to the majority of the population.

The Confederate flag represented slavery for about 4 years. The Stars and Stripes, as flown for example by slave ships, represented slavery for more than "four score and seven" years. A lot of the slave traders were Northerners.

American international slave trade was made illegal in 1807.... Yes, some still illegally did so, but not with authority of the US govt.

 

[SRATH]

It certainly is a world turned upside down. The confederate flag always signified one main thing,.........F the federal government and their intrusions in our lives. Of course prior to most of our ancesters getting to America, this meant slavery.Correct me if I am wrong but I think that issue is pretty much settled......quite a while ago I am told.

Nobody thinks a thing about a black person doing any type of job or having any sort of skill or accomplishing anything in this great land of our and there are still folks fighting the civil war. Good luck, but it is over.

 

[razpsu]

You mean like this guy?

William Ellison Jr, born April Ellison, (C. April, 1790 - 5 December 1861) was a cotton gin maker and blacksmith in South Carolina, a free negro and former slave who achieved considerable success in business before the American Civil War. He eventually became a major planter and one of the medium property owners, and certainly the wealthiest "black" property owner, in the state. He held 40 slaves at his death and more than 1,000 acres of land. From 1830-1865 he and his sons were the only free blacks in Sumter County, South Carolina to own slaves. The county was largely devoted to cotton plantations and the majority population were slaves.

 

[SgtCarter]

Re: Anytime, anyplace you silly, fatuous, coward, hypocrite traitor

I wont have any problem kicking your ass. ask Glov for my email you punk

 

[razpsu]

Sgt. who are you referring to? Why so violent?

I think the Sargent in full metal jacket is tougher.

Of course Pyle kicked his ass.

 

[slwlion]

Re: so a learned man can't change his opinions in a space of a decade?

Oh stop !! He was as bigoted and racist as any white man at the time.. He was a politician not a moralist.. He would do anything to keep the Union in place, he said as much. He would support slavery or not support slavery if it meant keeping the Union in place.. His convictions were such they could never be changed . If you still do not understand this man, read his private letters and his address to Black businessmen (I forget the date) He was at best a separatist.

 

[lionlurker]

I'm sorry, but I am somewhat dense. Could you explain your point

again, and what your position is on the Confederate flag?

Just so we are clear here.

 

[Nashville Lion]

Re: Anytime, anyplace you silly, fatuous, coward, hypocrite traitor

Whose ass do you want to kick??? Relax Sgt...it is not worth getting worked up over. This is a message board...not a saloon. There will be no real fighting.

 

[fairfaxlion2]

Actually, anybody who completed high school-level U.S. history knows that. The Mason-Dixon line was the de-facto border for the legality of slavery, and Pennsylvania is north of that line (which is why only a complete, unmitigated halfwit would fly a confederate flag in Pennsylvania, in front a stadium named after a Union war hero).

Originally posted by Carl Spackler:

Few remember that slavery went on in the north during the entire war in MD and DE at the least. The EP that allegedly freed slaves did so only in the Confederate states in conflict, not the states under Northern control. Is that silly or what?

This post was edited on 4/19 5:45 PM by fairfaxlion2

 

[Chickenman Testa]

So he was as racist as Edmund Ruffin, Nathan Bedford Forrest

And practically every South Carolinian of the time?

Got it.

 

[slwlion]

Re: It should be burned

Just like they burn the American flag, right ??

 

[jabba2]

In South East PA, I've seen an interaction between minorities a van with two males, and a Confederate flag sticking out the side window. I heard... "Leave the country, gook".

This post was edited on 4/19 7:16 PM by jabba2

 

[demlion]

But I am not a traitorous loser. Johnny Reb is and he has the

flag to prove it.

 

[phillybillyreprise]

Rebel = Insurrectionist

Stars and Bars = Insurrectionist's flag

Please do not fly it anywhere in the U.S.A.

 

[NittanySteel]

Every redneck I've met that flies the rebel flag has been some toothless numbnut who wouldn't know a history text from a pre-algebra book. Come off it with the states' rights nonsense. It was a fight over states' rights to treat other human beings as property.

Thank god the Union kicked the rebels' asses. Otherwise, I'd be sharing a border here in PA with the 1800's equivalent of Syria.

For those of you who fly that rag in defiance of the government, go move to some other country where you think life is so great.

 

[northwoods]

Now - bet that make you feel better

You continue to revel in being the most polarizing poster on this board. You think you are sooo wonderful and, of course, that yours is always the only opinion that matters.

 

[razpsu]

I live in nc now and Ive been called Yankee and
Damn Yankee many times. A damn Yankee is one
Who stays and lives in nc.

The war is alive and well.

Heck we have a golf tourney called the Ryder cup.

The north vs the south.
Scoreboard has usa flag and confederate flag.
For each player team.

When it comes down to the last few matches you
Will either hear chants of usa usa or the rebel yell

Depending on who is winning.

North has one 5 of last 6 years but last year the Rebs
Won.

 

[auxgym]

I wonder if the people that support a person's right to fly a confederate flag on university property would also support the right of someone to fly a flag with a german swastika. Would they go into a historical dissertation of the things it represented besides Hitler to impress us with their amazing knowledge? One of the most difficult things to teach is class.

 

[TheGLOV]

What a waste of time this thread is.

 

[razpsu]

Auxgym those are two different things completely
If you are looking at it as a true way of living pre civil war
And then the war itself. Any use after that is used different.
Remember the south flew the Stars and Stripes before the war.
Should we take that down?
German swatisca had nothing to do with the U.S. and a right
To fly it. Saying that they do have a right to fly anything in the us.
Defend the constitutiion all the way if you are for the union,

 

[pandaczar12]

Why has no one considered that maybe he/she is just a big "Dukes of Hazzard" fan?

Originally posted by Carl Spackler:

No one here knows why the tailgate flies a Confederate battle flag, I assume because if they flew the stars and bars most would think it was an early American flag and not know the difference.

Three pages, and you are the only person who knows enough about history to realize that it's actually the confederate battle flag.

 

[razpsu]

It's actually the second version of the national flag.

The first version was Stars and bars which was a circle
Of Stars and Stripes. Too close to US flag so they changed it
To this version which is called "stainless banner"


Funny thing is that version 2 is referred to as stars and bars
But this isn't right.

Then there was a third version in 1865.

 

[lattydaddy]

Originally posted by auxgym:
I wonder if the people that support a person's right to fly a confederate flag on university property would also support the right of someone to fly a flag with a german swastika. Would they go into a historical dissertation of the things it represented besides Hitler to impress us with their amazing knowledge? One of the most difficult things to teach is class.

+1000000000000 Amen, auxgym. I see eye to eye with you on must topics. If burning a US flag is illegal, then why isn't flying a confederate flag illegal? I'm not necessarily saying it should be illegal, but Penn State should have the ability to restrict offensive symbols/signs on its grounds.

Say we have some African American recruits visiting for Blue/White game and they're walking through the tailgating lots with their families and see a confederate flag flying high. Are they going to be offended? Is that going to help remove the perception of Penn State being a "lack of diversity cow pasture school"? It's absurd the people here trying to justify the flying of that flag on the grounds of "all the other things besides slavery that it represents". Patently absurd.

 

[lattydaddy]

first game of this coming year. who wants to go over with me and rip that flag down? if the morons that fly it want to call the police for vandalism or stealing, then HA - good luck with that. See how inclined the cops are to help these losers.

 

[razpsu]

So then you are not for freedom of speech.

Ok I get it. Who is the nazi now?

 

[lattydaddy]

Originally posted by razpsu:
So then you are not for freedom of speech.

Ok I get it. Who is the nazi now?

would flying an ISIL flag be "free speech"? is that good judgment? is calling someone a racial slur "free speech"? Why does federal regulation ban saying the N word and other curse words/racial slurs on TV? Is that in opposition to free speech? Your point is ridiculous, but that's par for the course for you.

This post was edited on 4/20 10:54 AM by lattydaddy

 

[NittPicker]

Originally posted by pandaczar12:

Why has no one considered that maybe he/she is just a big "Dukes of Hazzard" fan?

Originally posted by Carl Spackler:

No one here knows why the tailgate flies a Confederate battle flag, I assume because if they flew the stars and bars most would think it was an early American flag and not know the difference.

Three pages, and you are the only person who knows enough about history to realize that it's actually the confederate battle flag.

It was actually the battle flag of the Army of Northern Virginia but came to be recognized as a symbol for the entire south. The design was used in the canton of later confederate national flags so it was more than just a battle flag.