Match Thread Nebraska dual - Sun, Feb 18

[Callthestall]

I have seen situations where one wrestler voluntarily leaves the wrestling area with both feet without being touched or pushed (in fact, it happened Sunday - a Nebraska wrestler voluntarily left the wrestling circle with both feet without being pushed or shoved there) - this is permitted to happen in Folk because action is not stopped unless both wrestlers go fully out of circle. This is not permitted in Free (fleeing the mat) and should not be permitted in Folk (but it is permitted in Folk where Stalling is called very subjectively and often in the favor of only one of the wrestlers). It is absurd that Folk gives a defensive advantage to a wrestler who voluntarily chooses to leave the mat and wrestle from OB! Any wrestler who voluntarily puts both their feet OB without being touched while the other wrestler is still inside the circle, should instantaneously generate a Stall Call for fleeing the mat.

A wrestler should be put on a count if either foot, or both, go OB while being pushed by opponent - they should have a 3-count to return fully in-bounds or be hit with stalling. Wrestlers should not be permitted an advantage by wrestling the edge - quite the contrary, they should be penalized as it is a clear form of stalling. What Smith did to avoid being taken down while in the grasp should generate a stall call 100% of the time for "fleeing the mat" while engaged and using OB to avoid being taken down. A wrestler should be forced to scramble and defend toward in-bounds - using the edge as a defense mechanism should not be permitted and should be penalized 100% of the time.

Agree 100 percent about wrestlers working the circle. It's been a pet peeve of mine since Nazareth was a power under Nunamaker. If it was a tough match a Nazareth kid with lead would basically back step to edge on whistle. 2 time State champ ? Miller was notorious for it.
Refs are more willing to call stall on bottom kid that is get grounded like coffee bean. That call doesn't take any guts. The ref needs his stall calls to initiate action. If 2 guys do the Salsa for 3 minutes call the Double stall at end of first.

 

[Hey_Blue]

My personal pissing and moaning about refs story. My oldest daughter played fastpitch softball from elementary to college. So I spent a lot of time at the softball fields. I was not shy about complaining to umpires about calls made. A few years later I decided to become a PIAA fastpitch umpire. I passed the written test, attended local umpire meetings and umpired little league, junior high and jv games for several seasons. I will never give a ref a bag of crap about a call anymore! I am not saying refs always make good calls (I had my fair share of mistakes) but I now have walked in their shoes. Maybe some in our crowd should try them on, I would encourage others to seriously consider becoming a ref!

As an NCAA and high school (PIAA) fast pitch umpire for over 30 years, your comment was music to my ears. My complaints about officiating are few and far between; usually limited to mechanics and game (bout) management. The PIAA has been hemoraging officials in all sports now for years so I can tell you from experience, you anyone considering it would be welcome with open arms.

 

[PSUbluTX]

I dunno guys. Beau may have won the match, but I think Brock won the internet with this one:

View embedded media

I like Brock, he seems like a class act. He's a funky, unpredictable wrestler who will continue to be dangerous for a lot of opponents, including Beau.

 

[Random4598375]

I like Brock, he seems like a class act. He's a funky, unpredictable wrestler who will continue to be dangerous for a lot of opponents, including Beau.

I cringe when I watch Brock because his knees go in directions that are completely unnatural for properly functioning knees.

 

[82bordeaux]

There was a really loud guy behind us in N4U who loved to call out for "stalling" incessantly. I think it was a refugee from Iowa.

One match he was calling for stalling, I kid you not, less than 5 seconds into the first period of one match. SMH.

There was a kid maybe 10 or 12 that was in the suite next to us at the NCAA Championships in Detroit. He was yelling stalling during one of the matches with an Iowa wrestler. I said "kid, your wrestler is giving up swipes. Who's stalling?"

 

[86PSUPaul]

No, but I met my wife there.

She was tending bar to get through nursing school and well, I was eager to help her.

Cabaret (and she insists that I aways add-before Jules turned it into a nudie bar)

Damn phone.. how did I not see "hoes" instead of shoes.

Hmmm, I only knew of the Cabaret as the nudie bar….. not that I visited. That was the one on Market St, right? Now it is a sushi place.

 

[js8793]

If a wrestler has shown a pattern of taking injury time then people would have a case, but Beau has wrestled over 80 matches and never before took injury time.

I don't remember another case of Austin Desanto taking injury time either. You guys are working pretty hard to justify some obvious hypocrisy.

"Everybody else is faking it, but OUR guy would never fake."

That's why my beef isn't with the wrestlers. It's with the officials. No problem with Beau vocalizing pain. That doesn't mean it should have been stopped. You all would have been livid if the ref stopped Dean from bow and arrowing Warner, and rightfully so.

 

[PSUbluTX]

I don't remember another case of Austin Desanto taking injury time either. You guys are working pretty hard to justify some obvious hypocrisy.

"Everybody else is faking it, but OUR guy would never fake."

That's why my beef isn't with the wrestlers. It's with the officials. No problem with Beau vocalizing pain. That doesn't mean it should have been stopped. You all would have been livid if the ref stopped Dean from bow and arrowing Warner, and rightfully so.

You made your point the first time you made your point. Now you're just raging against fandom. Of course "our" guy is never faking and "their" guy is always faking. That's how fanatics think, and we have our fare share on this board. Rational posters recognize the hypocrisy.

But didn't we see 3 examples of Iowa guys doing the "no mas guttural cry" when about to get scored upon that year: De Santo, Warner, and Cassioppi? Once is an aberration. Twice is a curiosity. Three times starts to look like a pattern.

 

[NittanyLion84]

Mitchell Mesenbrink vs Antrell Taylor - 165 LBS Full Match, with the Jeff Byers Call

 

[NittanyLion84]

Beau Bartlett vs Brock Hardy - 141 LBS, Full Match, with the Jeff Byers Call

 

[donboy6499]

You made your point the first time you made your point. Now you're just raging against fandom. Of course "our" guy is never faking and "their" guy is always faking. That's how fanatics think, and we have our fare share on this board. Rational posters recognize the hypocrisy.

But didn't we see 3 examples of Iowa guys doing the "no mas guttural cry" when about to get scored upon that year: De Santo, Warner, and Cassioppi? Once is an aberration. Twice is a curiosity. Three times starts to look like a pattern.

It's like these people forget they are on a Penn State message board and want some sanctimonious "you're right".

 

[ss7]

You made your point the first time you made your point. Now you're just raging against fandom. Of course "our" guy is never faking and "their" guy is always faking. That's how fanatics think, and we have our fare share on this board. Rational posters recognize the hypocrisy.

But didn't we see 3 examples of Iowa guys doing the "no mas guttural cry" when about to get scored upon that year: De Santo, Warner, and Cassioppi? Once is an aberration. Twice is a curiosity. Three times starts to look like a pattern.

I think you're combining years here. Desanto's "incident" (2020) was not the same year as Dean's match-ending, scream-inducing B&A on Warner (2022). Three times across three seasons doesn't seem like much of a pattern to me.

Wrestling, especially at this level, involves guys being put in positions that will result in pain and, potentially, injury. I don't think any of these are calculated performances to prevent a specific scoring opportunity, but genuine reactions to something that is painful which may or may not result in a PD stoppage from a ref.

Edit to add: I don't really know what people expect from the refs. These PD stoppages are always going to be a judgement call on when to call something acceptable or unacceptable. It's never going to be consistent, and wouldn't fans prefer to refs to generally err on the side of caution (injury prevention)? I do.

 

[Pitchfork Rebel]

I just re-watched the dual meet. The match where I yelled for stalling was at 165. The Nebby guy off the whistle backed up to a foot of the outer circle within 3 seconds. That is stalling.

When I reffed I have made that call many times.

Cael asked the fans at a recent presser to get more vocal and I am just doing my part. 🙂

Twelfth man meet the eleventh weight class.

 

[KCLion]

It's like these people forget they are on a Penn State message board and want some sanctimonious "you're right".

You’re right!

 

[El-Jefe]

I don't remember another case of Austin Desanto taking injury time either. You guys are working pretty hard to justify some obvious hypocrisy.

Such as earlier in the same match?

 

[js8793]

Such as earlier in the same match?

before that match?

 

[ss7]

Such as earlier in the same match?

Does Austin DeSanto seem like a guy who's going to be calculating, pre-meditative, and concerned with his own image to the degree of faking/embellishing an injury to avoid being pinned?

This is a guy who was disciplined for threatening a NCAA tournament staffer and went after a teammates parents during a head to head tournament match up. And that's without getting into a lot of his early career, in-match shenanigans. He just doesn't seem like a guy who thinks multiple steps ahead and would rather go out on an injury default than being turned and pinned.

Maybe I'm just misunderstanding what's being alleged here, but I've always found the "DeSanto was faking it" thing a bit hard to stomach.

 

[El-Jefe]

Does Austin DeSanto seem like a guy who's going to be calculating, pre-meditative, and concerned with his own image to the degree of faking/embellishing an injury to avoid being pinned?

This is a guy who was disciplined for threatening a NCAA tournament staffer and went after a teammates parents during a head to head tournament match up. And that's without getting into a lot of his early career, in-match shenanigans. He just doesn't seem like a guy who thinks multiple steps ahead and would rather go out on an injury default than being turned and pinned.

Maybe I'm just misunderstanding what's being alleged here, but I've always found the "DeSanto was faking it" thing a bit hard to stomach.

He panicked.

 

[AgSurfer]

Agree 100 percent about wrestlers working the circle. It's been a pet peeve of mine since Nazareth was a power under Nunamaker. If it was a tough match a Nazareth kid with lead would basically back step to edge on whistle. 2 time State champ ? Miller was notorious for it.
Refs are more willing to call stall on bottom kid that is get grounded like coffee bean. That call doesn't take any guts. The ref needs his stall calls to initiate action. If 2 guys do the Salsa for 3 minutes call the Double stall at end of first.

FYI - any of the old timers here will remember this was Navy's go-to strategy when Perry was the coach. Right at the whistle, they would position themselves so that they were always between their opponent and the edge of the mat. That doesn't mean they would never take a shot, but they always made sure that their sprawl would position them right on the edge of the circle.

 

[82bordeaux]

Does Austin DeSanto seem like a guy who's going to be calculating, pre-meditative, and concerned with his own image to the degree of faking/embellishing an injury to avoid being pinned?

This is a guy who was disciplined for threatening a NCAA tournament staffer and went after a teammates parents during a head to head tournament match up. And that's without getting into a lot of his early career, in-match shenanigans. He just doesn't seem like a guy who thinks multiple steps ahead and would rather go out on an injury default than being turned and pinned.

Maybe I'm just misunderstanding what's being alleged here, but I've always found the "DeSanto was faking it" thing a bit hard to stomach.

He panicked.

This is exactly how I read it during the match. I think he experienced knee pain and panicked a bit and got in his own head. You could see it written on his face.
The second cradle was a above the knee with no knee torquing. I think he panicked about getting cradled up there and screamed out again. Only he knows if he experienced any pain getting cradled up, but it sure looks far fetched based on the video. I also think that is why TNT were so pissed off. He had no injury time and had to default. He panicked, had the match stopped, and had to default and give up 6 team points.
The beauty of this is that I can't be wrong because it is only my opinion. Just like @js8793 is right, and all the fans with blue colored glasses are right. They are opinions. The only one that was wrong was IRONTURD, who called Beau a POS. He needs to be done. He's going to keep cranking it up to get permanently banned so let's just save him time.

 

[js8793]

Just like @js8793 is right

Excellent post!

 

[js8793]

He panicked.

100%. The first sequence did put a lot of pressure on his knee and tweaked it. Enough to not continue? I don't think so, but he was psyched out and not able to control his emotions from there. Sound familiar for him? Just an unfortunate sequence for all involved.

He missed the next weekend and had a brace on it after. Probably pretty comparable to the level of injury Bartlett sustained and was able to wrestle through.

I've never understood why it makes some PSU fans so upset. It's not like it cost PSU anything. They still got 6 points.

 

[nerfstate]

I've never understood why it makes some PSU fans so upset. It's not like it cost PSU anything. They still got 6 points.

You're a fan of the sport right? Fans want to see domination (and humiliation--of certain opponents--too). Sure, winning by the most possible points is the primary goal--kinda. Not in that case. We wanted our stud to deck yours. Doesn't get more simple than that. But I'm over it, I think.... 😉

 

[hlstone]

100%. The first sequence did put a lot of pressure on his knee and tweaked it. Enough to not continue? I don't think so, but he was psyched out and not able to control his emotions from there. Sound familiar for him? Just an unfortunate sequence for all involved.

He missed the next weekend and had a brace on it after. Probably pretty comparable to the level of injury Bartlett sustained and was able to wrestle through.

I've never understood why it makes some PSU fans so upset. It's not like it cost PSU anything. They still got 6 points.

Im not upset. I do think pins are more fun than defaults.

 

[82bordeaux]

I've never understood why it makes some PSU fans so upset. It's not like it cost PSU anything. They still got 6 points.

We wanted to see Desanto

 

[nerfstate]

 

[eddy line]

View embedded media

I have several decades on the kid, but he has a better perspective and shows more maturity than me.

 

[Pitchfork Rebel]

Hmmm, I only knew of the Cabaret as the nudie bar….. not that I visited. That was the one on Market St, right? Now it is a sushi place.

Yes, the one on Market Street. Just west of the Armory.

In the early 90's it was one of many live band places. Local bands like Something Wet and Strawberry Jam played there. My wife (then my ex-girlfriend) left because she wasn't going to work in a t*tty bar.

Several years ago, he got in trouble with the PLCB.

Cabaret in Kingston will no longer be strip club - Times Leader

WILKES-BARRE — The Cabaret in Kingston will cease to exist as a strip club, but could get new life as a sports bar by early next year. The Luzerne County District Attorney’s Office was in court Wednesday trying to win an order to get the club to close for one year due to repeated problems […]

www.timesleader.com

I guess the sports bar concept didn't work.

As an aside, you might remember "The Speakeasy" in Edwardsville. One of Jule's daughters owned it.

His other daughter, Karen was the inspiration for "concerts for Karen". She married a co-worker's brother and contracted gestational leukemia. In attempt to deliver successfully, she postponed treatment. She passed in the effort. Now with personal experience with a blood cancer, I admire her more.

 

[js8793]

I have several decades on the kid, but he has a better perspective and shows more maturity than me.

I think this is in response to an instagram post he captioned "I am potentially dangerous" with some cool action shots. It's a shame he got heat for it because it was a great post lol.

 

[nerfstate]

I think this is in response to an instagram post he captioned "I am potentially dangerous" with some cool action shots. It's a shame he got heat for it because it was a great post lol.

I posted that in this thread--thought it was hilarious. I'll be rooting for Brock to take 3rd/2nd at B1Gs & NCAAs.

 

[mvattivo]

View embedded media

Class act!

 

[Franklinstheman]

I have officiated at both the high school and collegiate levels and coaches just want consistency, maybe u just go to step out rule as in freestyle to avoid judgement call

Consistency definition =a call for your team,then a call for my team,etc

 

[phelpsp]

As an NCAA and high school (PIAA) fast pitch umpire for over 30 years, your comment was music to my ears. My complaints about officiating are few and far between; usually limited to mechanics and game (bout) management. The PIAA has been hemoraging officials in all sports now for years so I can tell you from experience, you anyone considering it would be welcome with open arms.

As a former NCAA Baseball Umpire, go learn how to officiate. Work your entire life to get good at it, then come talk to me. You have no idea what these guys go through.
Amen Hey_Blue.

 

[phelpsp]

Agree 100 percent about wrestlers working the circle. It's been a pet peeve of mine since Nazareth was a power under Nunamaker. If it was a tough match a Nazareth kid with lead would basically back step to edge on whistle. 2 time State champ ? Miller was notorious for it.
Refs are more willing to call stall on bottom kid that is get grounded like coffee bean. That call doesn't take any guts. The ref needs his stall calls to initiate action. If 2 guys do the Salsa for 3 minutes call the Double stall at end of first.

This happens to Brooks all the time. Just ask his father about the Hilday NCAA Final. He was on the line our outside of it for four minutes of the match. Same with Lewis against Carter.

 

[HikeNatParks]

View embedded media

Such a refreshing perspective from this kid. Damn, now he's got me hoping he takes KC silver . . . behind Beau.

 

[donboy6499]

100%. The first sequence did put a lot of pressure on his knee and tweaked it. Enough to not continue? I don't think so, but he was psyched out and not able to control his emotions from there. Sound familiar for him? Just an unfortunate sequence for all involved.

He missed the next weekend and had a brace on it after. Probably pretty comparable to the level of injury Bartlett sustained and was able to wrestle through.

I've never understood why it makes some PSU fans so upset. It's not like it cost PSU anything. They still got 6 points.

They met twice the year before, Desanto won both and the old Hawkeye Report was certain the result could never be flipped (at least after the first one, maybe after the second there were 3 posters who thought it could ever flip).

"I don't know why it bothers you he didn't get to stick him in front thousands of idiots who didn't think he could stick him"

 

[82bordeaux]

Hmmm, I only knew of the Cabaret as the nudie bar….. not that I visited. That was the one on Market St, right? Now it is a sushi place.

So you're saying it was always a sushi place.

 

[Random4598375]

100%. The first sequence did put a lot of pressure on his knee and tweaked it. Enough to not continue? I don't think so, but he was psyched out and not able to control his emotions from there. Sound familiar for him? Just an unfortunate sequence for all involved.

He missed the next weekend and had a brace on it after. Probably pretty comparable to the level of injury Bartlett sustained and was able to wrestle through.

I've never understood why it makes some PSU fans so upset. It's not like it cost PSU anything. They still got 6 points.

I'm not upset about it, but it did rob us of getting to see RBY pin him, which would have been an iconic moment in the rivalry. But whatever, I'm not going to bitch too loudly about refs erring on the side of caution with the wrestlers' health, whether it's ADS, Beau, Rathjen, or anyone else. If it becomes a case of clear and deliberate abuse of the system akin to soccer diving, then an automatic injury default may need to become part of the equation at some point, but I haven't seen that at all, even with ADS (or, I guess, especially with him since he actually did default).

 

[86PSUPaul]

I think this is in response to an instagram post he captioned "I am potentially dangerous" with some cool action shots. It's a shame he got heat for it because it was a great post lol.

I don’t have a problem with his posts. I do have problems with Jordan Burroughs posts and his Justice for Hardy post.

 

[7brwnpsu]

In spite of how Manning acts on the mat, his wrestlers seem like great kids, Exhibit 506. At Big10s in Michigan last year we sat with Nebraska fans, great group of guys. Fun time with guys who loved wrestling.