"Cheating doesn't pay" is a lie
- Thread starter LandoComando
- Start date
Still have to live with the shame if they have any.
Doubt Harbaugh does. There was one goal for them and they're 3 games away regardless of what happens after.
I look at it as a "high risk high reward" type of thing. You win, you get recruits you might not have got to begin with. Maybe you win a natty, in which brings more top recruits? It is one of those deals where you weigh the risk with the reward. Are you going to gain more than you lose. Big corporations do this all day long.
I know I am stating the obvious, but it's just how I see it.
I know I am stating the obvious, but it's just how I see it.
Depends on who you are. It didn't pay for Stalions or the Linebackers coach they fired. Every situation has winners and losers, this is no different.
Very true. I will say I think Stalions will claim "victory" if Michigan wins the title though.
I can just imagine what the inside of Harbaugh's house looked like during the game. I bet he had more electronics equipment to call the shots and communicate with his coaches during the game than the Natl Security Agency.
I mean outwardly sure, but throwing away your career at his age is a loss no matter what you tell yourself. A Michigan title isn’t going to do for him what a legitimate coaching career could have.
Agreed guessing some Michigan alumni will hook him up with a nice job though.
Maybe Uncle T does in order to keep his involvement quiet but otherwise I don't see the motivation for anyone who would be in a position to hook him up with a job to actually follow through on it. Especially if they see some combination of vacated wins/titles/bowl bans/lose Harbaugh when its all said and done. They'll blame him and he is of no use to the program moving forward.
and that is why this punishment is a joke.
No matter what happens the Houston Astros and now Michigan will always be seen as cheaters.
There's no "side". Do you think the Astros and the fan care or do they celebrate having won the title?
That's the whole point. Michigan was only worried about being able to play this post season. The Big Ten didn't want that battle.
Do the Astros have a title? "Officially" they do, but deep down they will always know they cheated on their way to "winning" it. And so will the rest of us. In my view, there was no champion that year. By definition, if you don't adhere to the rules of the game, then you cannot win the game.
Exactly. You believe the ends justfies the means. That's pathetic. Go celebrate with the cheaters. I'd rather have some self respect.
I listen to a lot of sports radio talk shows at work, and they all think it's much to do about nothing, and I agree. Everyone wants to win so bad, or your day/week is ruined, your coach will get fired. There is so much pressure to win.
Harbaugh gave 1.5 million to Michigan employees so I look at him differently I guess.
On a side note, Harbaugh must be an incredible talent evaluator. Michigan and PSU recruit at about the same level as far as star power, but Harbaugh does better picking High School athletes.
Harbaugh gave 1.5 million to Michigan employees so I look at him differently I guess.
On a side note, Harbaugh must be an incredible talent evaluator. Michigan and PSU recruit at about the same level as far as star power, but Harbaugh does better picking High School athletes.
The question, which you refuse to answer, is do you think Michigan cares? I literally called them cheaters in the title of this thread but if they don't care then it's moot. You or I can say a title is tainted but they don't care.
If a legitimate painful punishment gets levied they might care. As to whether they care now, it doesn't matter because care or not they're still cheaters. Cheating in sport, or pretty much anything, is about as bad as it gets. If any of them have a conscience they will transfer. Personally I'd never want to be associated with them. You clearly don't have a problem with it. That's sad but not surprising.
"If any of them have a conscience they will transfer"--gotta love the holier than thou act which is why so many people wanted to see Paterno and Penn State go down.
You aren't them. I'm not them. Have you seen their response? They don't care what you or I or anything else believe. This is why i said if the Big Ten didn't ban Michigan from the post season they failed and Michigan won. Vacating a game has no meaning--everyone watched and knows what happened. See USC with Bush. The memories don't fade. Just like Penn State vacating wins didn't matter to me. I saw the games--I don't care what people want to accept. What happens on the field is all that matters.
I literally called them cheaters in the title. That doesn't alter the reality that they're still playing for a title.
No. In order to win a game, you have to play the game. Games are defined by rules. Once you break the rules, you are no longer playing the game.
That doesn't even make sense. So, anyone that commits a penalty in the game isn't playing the game?
Google Astros World Series Champs and see if it comes up
Games (sports) are determined by the outcome. Altering it later doesn't change it because we already saw it. It's why the Big Ten failed everyone.
Penalties in the game (facemask, for example) are already accounted for in the rules. The rules don't say that you forfeit the game by committing such a penalty. Nothing in the rules of baseball accounts for a premeditated team effort to steal signs.
As for Google, why does that matter?
Did the Astros forfeit something? And vacating and forfeiting aren't the same thing, you realize that right?
Ignore Google--does MLB count the Astros as the WS Champs that year? You're making a false statement and you know it.
The guy at the top is the winner, almost always. Even in cases where the guy at the top is punished or fired because of things that happen on his tenure, he usually gets a golden parachute on his way out the door.
OK, so "forfeit" may not be the correct word. But you know what I mean. In any case, why does it matter what MLB counts?
Because they're still the World Champs regardless of what you say. Not only did the win it but the sport recognizes it so what is your point? That you don't count it? Their fan base doesn't care what you count and don't count. They won a title. It's not disputable. It is disputable what MLB should have done but nothing else.
"The sport recognizes it." Are bowl games recognized in a team's record? Or are they just scrimmages, as you say?
They're scrimmages that the league counts so fans continue to spend money on them but the NCAA doesn't count them toward winning a title which is why they create a playoff
Now answer the question
You can't have it both ways. You can't defend one argument based on what one sport "recognizes," but then disregard what another sport recognizes when the thing they recognize doesn't support your position. And in case you didn't know, MLB is a business and also motivated by profit. The integrity of the sport is not a priority for them.
Anyway, which question are you still waiting for me to answer?
I absolutely can justify why the count it and acknowledge they count it.
College sports is also a business and nothing more--has been for decades
Do Astros fans care if you count the title or not? Will Michigan fans? If not, you're proving my point. If so, why do you believe they care? They saw (or would see) their fans win a title.
The reality is--our fans are acting the way they are about this for two reasons. 1) our sanctions 2) we can't beat Michigan
There are polls that indicate that most fans believe the Astros should be stripped of their title. People care about the integrity of the sport.
The polls don't impact reality nor does popular opinion
You still haven't answered the question--do Astros fans care about that or did they (and do they continue to) celebrate their title?
We agree on one thing, which is that neither polls nor popular opinion are indicative of reality. Right is right and wrong is wrong, regardless. But I mentioned it because you asked me what fans think.
If you're asking specifically what Astros fans think (which also doesn't impact reality), I don't have any evidence because I don't know any of their fans. But of course many of their fans feel badly about it because that's the only way to feel. All you have to do is imagine your own team "winning" that way. If you couldn't feel good about it with your own team, then why would Astros fans be different?
If you're asking specifically what Astros fans think (which also doesn't impact reality), I don't have any evidence because I don't know any of their fans. But of course many of their fans feel badly about it because that's the only way to feel. All you have to do is imagine your own team "winning" that way. If you couldn't feel good about it with your own team, then why would Astros fans be different?
