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Ziegler Slaten today 4:30 PM ET

Who cares about penn live
Your paranoid delusions are breathtaking. Literally anyone that disagrees with you is part of a grand conspiracy.

funny thing is he has new handles every 2-3 months now because he has really lost it. You hear them talking above like how Jerry being innocent will exonerate Joe. That is all it is about to the few loons who skipped by the who fair trial line and have convinced themselves Jerry will save Joe's legacy. His legacy was always fine with me, but apparently they want the world to apologize and they think Sandusky is the guy to make this happen. I can't even believe how f--ked you are in the head if you really think that. Hey look, a unicorn...BRB.
 
Who cares about penn live


funny thing is he has new handles every 2-3 months now because he has really lost it. You hear them talking above like how Jerry being innocent will exonerate Joe. That is all it is about to the few loons who skipped by the who fair trial line and have convinced themselves Jerry will save Joe's legacy. His legacy was always fine with me, but apparently they want the world to apologize and they think Sandusky is the guy to make this happen. I can't even believe how f--ked you are in the head if you really think that. Hey look, a unicorn...BRB.


61144_165272050149493_7465807_n.jpg
 
Correct, Amendola couldn't have forced the victims to speak to him before trial but he sure as hell could have tried, instead of just taking the OAG at their word. This wasn't a civil case, pal so your 90% rate doesn't apply. These were CRIMINAL charges. The defense absolutely has the right to try and depose/interview the alleged victims before trial.

Of course you don't have to depose every SINGLE witness (you need to prioritize based on how much time you have before trial-which in the JS was practically none after discovery started) but you sure as hell want to talk to the ones who will be testifying, as alleged victims, against your client in a criminal trial.

These weren't just run of the mill witnesses that JS's defense failed to interview before trial, they were alleged VICTIMS of JS's who were going to testify that he abused them. There's a big difference. Apparently you're not a good enough lawyer to see the difference....

From a quick google search (link):

The defense can gain significant benefits from trying to interview prosecution witnesses rather than relying on their statements. These include the ability to:
  • gauge witnesses’ demeanor and credibility
  • ferret out details of witnesses’ stories and strategize as to how to handle their testimony at trial
  • impeach witnesses who say something on the stand that’s inconsistent with what they told the defense
  • establish a foundation for arguing witnesses who refuse to speak to the defense are biased against the defendant, and
  • find leads for new evidence and people to interview.
Reinventing the Wheel?
Some defendants might wonder whether it’s worth it to interview a witness who has already given a statement that the prosecution has disclosed. But prosecutors and police officers sometimes omit or misstate information (either intentionally or not). Further, when law enforcement and prosecutors speak to witnesses, they aren’t likely to ask all the questions the answers to which the defense would like to know. And there might not be a record of all conversations witnesses have had with the other side.

Waste of Time?
It’s perfectly legal for defense attorneys and their investigators to interview prosecution witnesses in most instances. (Among the instances in which it’s not are those involving harassment or threats.) And even though prosecutors might not want their witnesses—including police officers and victims—to talk to the defense, they typically can’t stop them (though they may “inform” them that they don’t need to).

It’s generally up to witnesses and victims to decide whether to talk to the defense before trial. They might not be willing to talk, but a defense attorney or investigator who doesn't ask often doesn't know.
===========================================
From another link:

A defendant, usually through their defense attorney, can ascertain statements and other information from individuals that the prosecutor intends to use as witnesses during trial. During the discover process, the prosecutor must provide the names and addresses of the individuals they intend to utilize as witnesses during trial, which gives the defense a clear indicator of who they should interview. However, the process of interviewing the prosecutor’s witnesses, which may include the alleged victim of a crime, is not always possible in certain circumstances. Under no circumstances should a defendant conduct their own informal interviews or attempt to contact victims of a given crime, which may be viewed as intimidation, another crime, by the courts.

Some of the preeminent laws and policies concerning defense attorneys interviewing the prosecution’s witnesses include:

  • Prosecutors cannot mandate their witnesses to not speak to defense attorneys; however, they can strongly suggest that an individual not do so. However, prosecutors have no legal right to withhold a willing witness from speaking with the defense’s counsel.
  • Prosecution witnesses are also under no legal obligation to speak with the defense either, and if invasive measures are used to obtain an interview, more crimes may actually be committed. Some of the notable circumstances of forced interviews on the prosecution’s witnesses occur during a deposition.
  • Depositions are not common in criminal law, however, some states, such as Florida and California, have laws in place allowing the defense to subpoena a potential witness for a legally required interview under oath.
  • The final option for defense attorneys to use to garner information from prosecutor’s witnesses is through the services of a private investigator. While public defenders offices do have private investigators, the demand for services means they will not be solely tasked with investigating your case. In these instances, having private counsel and the ability to afford the dedicated services of a private investigator are beneficial to those that can afford to do so.
Although prosecutors are required to provide witness statements during the discovery period, it is not guaranteed these witness statements are accurate, complete, or even from a credible source. Investigating the source of information, fact checking, and even obtaining another statement from a witness may expose serious flaws or other discrepancies in a prosecutor’s case.
=========================================================

Good God I really hope you've never defended someone against criminal charges...if you even are a lawyer
You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. You're so ignorant, you don't even know you're ignorant. A legal encyclopedia (I liked that piece of advice about how the defendant shouldn't talk to the witnesses)!

The magic word from your encyclopedia is try. I hope I made it big enough for you. And you can TRY all you want but the victims won't talk to you because the prosecutors have told them not to. The same goes for most witnesses.

There's an actual investigative technique that's pretty useful in high profile cases but it's not in your "encyclopedia." Do you know what it is?

Oh, and in Pennsylvania, you don't depose any witnesses in a criminal case unless they are a. dying or b. will otherwise be unavailable for trial.
 
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You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. You're so ignorant, you don't even know you're ignorant. A legal encyclopedia (I liked that piece of advice about how the defendant shouldn't talk to the witnesses)!

The magic word from your encyclopedia is try. I hope I made it big enough for you. And you can TRY all you want but the victims won't talk to you because the prosecutors have told them not to. The same goes for most witnesses.

There's an actual investigative technique that's pretty useful in high profile cases but it's not in your "encyclopedia." Do you know what it is?

Oh, and in Pennsylvania, you don't depose any witnesses in a criminal case unless they are a. dying or b. will otherwise be unavailable for trial.



You.
 
You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. You're so ignorant, you don't even know you're ignorant. A legal encyclopedia (I liked that piece of advice about how the defendant shouldn't talk to the witnesses)!

The magic word from your encyclopedia is try. I hope I made it big enough for you. And you can TRY all you want but the victims won't talk to you because the prosecutors have told them not to. The same goes for most witnesses.

There's an actual investigative technique that's pretty useful in high profile cases but it's not in your "encyclopedia." Do you know what it is?

Oh, and in Pennsylvania, you don't depose any witnesses in a criminal case unless they are a. dying or b. will otherwise be unavailable for trial.

In my above post i said "depose/interview" because its legal to depose in some states (FL and CA) and not in others for criminal proceedings. All your doing is reiteraring what one of the bullet points I included already stated (most states dont allow depositions for criminal cases) and you're now resorting to strawman arguments because you have nothing else. Either way that has nothing to do with the overall point of my post about ineffective counsel.

Enough with the strawman arguments. The entire point from my intial post, which is completely lost on you, was that Amendola/Rominger didn't even TRY to INTERVIEW the alleged victims. They took the OAGs word that they werent even allowed to speak to them which was complete bullshit and a perfect example of ineffective counsel.

Another alternative for the defense counsel would have been to use a private investigator to interview the alleged victims on their behalf. But nope they never tried that route either. They completely and inexplicably believed the OAGs claim that they weren't even allowed to speak to them. Hence ineffective cousel.

How about you try responding to the above overall point instead of coming up with more strawman arguments??
 
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Who cares about penn live


funny thing is he has new handles every 2-3 months now because he has really lost it. You hear them talking above like how Jerry being innocent will exonerate Joe. That is all it is about to the few loons who skipped by the who fair trial line and have convinced themselves Jerry will save Joe's legacy. His legacy was always fine with me, but apparently they want the world to apologize and they think Sandusky is the guy to make this happen. I can't even believe how f--ked you are in the head if you really think that. Hey look, a unicorn...BRB.
I honestly have never posted on Penn live.

The delusion here is unreal. I 100% believe Joe got screwed and it's a travesty. But to ignore what's right in front of your face boggles the mind.

It's Dottie Sandusky syndrome: I've never seen anything inappropriate between Jerry and children. Of course I think it's totally normal for Jerry to shower nude with boys ages 10-14. It's normal for them to soap each other up and hug while showering. It's also normal for Jer to kiss there stomach and give them raspberries after they get out of the shower. I've never actually witnessed this, Jer did that in the basement where I don't go. But he told me it was nothing. Kids today just think about sex too much and misconstrue my husband's behavior.
 
I honestly have never posted on Penn live.

The delusion here is unreal. I 100% believe Joe got screwed and it's a travesty. But to ignore what's right in front of your face boggles the mind.

It's Dottie Sandusky syndrome: I've never seen anything inappropriate between Jerry and children. Of course I think it's totally normal for Jerry to shower nude with boys ages 10-14. It's normal for them to soap each other up and hug while showering. It's also normal for Jer to kiss there stomach and give them raspberries after they get out of the shower. I've never actually witnessed this, Jer did that in the basement where I don't go. But he told me it was nothing. Kids today just think about sex too much and misconstrue my husband's behavior.


Where's the proof?
 
I honestly have never posted on Penn live.

The delusion here is unreal. I 100% believe Joe got screwed and it's a travesty. But to ignore what's right in front of your face boggles the mind.

It's Dottie Sandusky syndrome: I've never seen anything inappropriate between Jerry and children. Of course I think it's totally normal for Jerry to shower nude with boys ages 10-14. It's normal for them to soap each other up and hug while showering. It's also normal for Jer to kiss there stomach and give them raspberries after they get out of the shower. I've never actually witnessed this, Jer did that in the basement where I don't go. But he told me it was nothing. Kids today just think about sex too much and misconstrue my husband's behavior.

At least she has an excuse for being in denial. Oh well, he isn't getting out anyway thankfully.
 
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In my above post i said "depose/interview" because its legal to depose in some states (FL and CA) and not in others for criminal proceedings. All your doing is reiteraring what one of the bullet points I included already stated (most states dont allow depositions for criminal cases) and you're now resorting to strawman arguments because you have nothing else. Either way that has nothing to do with the overall point of my post about ineffective counsel.

Enough with the strawman arguments. The entire point from my intial post, which is completely lost on you, was that Amendola/Rominger didn't even TRY to INTERVIEW the alleged victims. They took the OAGs word that they werent even allowed to speak to them which was complete bullshit and a perfect example of ineffective counsel.

Another alternative for the defense counsel would have been to use a private investigator to interview the alleged victims on their behalf. But nope they never tried that route either. They completely and inexplicably believed the OAGs claim that they weren't even allowed to speak to them. Hence ineffective cousel.

How about you try responding to the above overall point instead of coming up with more strawman arguments??
On a message board you can pretend to be an expert and you can pretend that you know what you're talking about because it's all a fantasy.

But a piece of advice: Don't try it in real life or you'll get in big trouble.

Oh, and the rule in California regarding deposition in criminal cases is the same as in PA; the witness has to be unavailable.

"In this case we inquire whether courts may permit a defendant in a criminal case to depose prosecution witnesses prior to trial, despite the defendant's failure to establish, as required by statute (Pen. Code, § 1335 et seq.), that the witnesses are about to leave the state or are unlikely to attend the trial. We conclude that although courts possess broad inherent powers to provide for discovery in criminal cases, they should decline to exercise those powers in a manner which would ignore present statutory limitations or which would create a different, more extensive deposition procedure than that presently prescribed by statute."

http://law.justia.com/cases/california/supreme-court/3d/20/523.html

And Florida is one of six states that permits depos in criminal cases, but that has nothing to do with the Sandusky case.

The rest of your post is uninformed verbiage.

And the BTW, a lawyer doesn't want to take a statement from a witness unless he wants to make himself a witness in the case and you can't be both a lawyer and a witness.
 
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On a message board you can pretend to be an expert and you can pretend that you know what you're talking about because it's all a fantasy.

But a piece of advice: Don't try it in real life or you'll get in big trouble.

Oh, and the rule in California regarding deposition in criminal cases is the same as in PA; the witness has to be unavailable.

"In this case we inquire whether courts may permit a defendant in a criminal case to depose prosecution witnesses prior to trial, despite the defendant's failure to establish, as required by statute (Pen. Code, § 1335 et seq.), that the witnesses are about to leave the state or are unlikely to attend the trial. We conclude that although courts possess broad inherent powers to provide for discovery in criminal cases, they should decline to exercise those powers in a manner which would ignore present statutory limitations or which would create a different, more extensive deposition procedure than that presently prescribed by statute."

http://law.justia.com/cases/california/supreme-court/3d/20/523.html

And Florida is one of six states that permits depos in criminal cases, but that has nothing to do with the Sandusky case.

The rest of your post is uninformed verbiage.

And the BTW, a lawyer doesn't want to take a statement from a witness unless he wants to make himself a witness in the case and you can't be both a lawyer and a witness.


No one believes you.
 
At least she has an excuse for being in denial. Oh well, he isn't getting out anyway thankfully.
No kidding. I wish he were in gen pop but there's a certain poetic justice in his current situation.

He took advantage of "at risk youths" and now he spends 23 hrs a day locked in a cell because he's "at risk"of being beaten or worse.
 
On a message board you can pretend to be an expert and you can pretend that you know what you're talking about because it's all a fantasy.

But a piece of advice: Don't try it in real life or you'll get in big trouble.

Oh, and the rule in California regarding deposition in criminal cases is the same as in PA; the witness has to be unavailable.

"In this case we inquire whether courts may permit a defendant in a criminal case to depose prosecution witnesses prior to trial, despite the defendant's failure to establish, as required by statute (Pen. Code, § 1335 et seq.), that the witnesses are about to leave the state or are unlikely to attend the trial. We conclude that although courts possess broad inherent powers to provide for discovery in criminal cases, they should decline to exercise those powers in a manner which would ignore present statutory limitations or which would create a different, more extensive deposition procedure than that presently prescribed by statute."

http://law.justia.com/cases/california/supreme-court/3d/20/523.html

And Florida is one of six states that permits depos in criminal cases, but that has nothing to do with the Sandusky case.

The rest of your post is uninformed verbiage.

And the BTW, a lawyer doesn't want to take a statement from a witness unless he wants to make himself a witness in the case and you can't be both a lawyer and a witness.

So, instead of responding to the actual point of my post you AGAIN go on about which states/conditions allow depositions in criminal cases...which has nothing to do with my point and isn't even something I'm disagreeing with you about....you're a freaking joke!

I've never claimed to be a lawyer on this site or real life. However the thing about the law is anyone can look it up and get informed about it.

Enough with the semantics/strawman arguments about which states allow depositions for criminal cases and which ones don't.

Yes or no...did JS have ineffective counsel if his lawyers believed the OAG's claim that they weren't allowed to talk to the alleged victims before trial?

It's a straight forward question and surely a lawyer, as you purport yourself to be, should have no trouble answering it.

Re: this part of your post: "a lawyer doesn't want to take a statement from a witness unless he wants to make himself a witness in the case and you can't be both a lawyer and a witness"

WTF are you even talking about? What you wrote makes absolutely no sense. It's perfectly normal/legal for defense attorneys and their investigators to interview witnesses. Lawyers do it ALL the time, especially trial lawyers (who spend most of their time interviewing witnesses and conducting legal research). It's a giant part of their jobs if they are doing their jobs properly. You have gone off the deep end pal....
 
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So, instead of responding to the actual point of my post you AGAIN go on about which states/conditions allow depositions in criminal cases...which has nothing to do with my point and isn't even something I'm disagreeing with you about....you're a freaking joke!

I've never claimed to be a lawyer on this site or real life. However the thing about the law is anyone can look it up and get informed about it.

Enough with the semantics/strawman arguments about which states allow depositions for criminal cases and which ones don't.

Yes or no...did JS have ineffective counsel if his lawyers believed the OAG's claim that they weren't allowed to talk to the alleged victims?

It's a straight forward question and surely a lawyer, as you purport yourself to be, should have no trouble answering it.

Re: this part of your post: "a lawyer doesn't want to take a statement from a witness unless he wants to make himself a witness in the case and you can't be both a lawyer and a witness"

WTF are you even talking about? What you wrote makes absolutely no sense. It's perfectly normal/legal for defense attorneys and their investigators to interview witnesses. They do it ALL the time, especially trial lawyers (who spend most of their time interviewing witnesses and conducting legal research). It's a giant part of their jobs if they are doing their jobs properly. You have gone off the deep end pal....


The ridiculous crap he makes up is why no one believes him.
 
So, instead of responding to the actual point of my post you AGAIN go on about which states/conditions allow depositions in criminal cases...which has nothing to do with my point and isn't even something I'm disagreeing with you about....you're a freaking joke!

I've never claimed to be a lawyer on this site or real life. However the thing about the law is anyone can look it up and get informed about it.

Enough with the semantics/strawman arguments about which states allow depositions for criminal cases and which ones don't.

Yes or no...did JS have ineffective counsel if his lawyers believed the OAG's claim that they weren't allowed to talk to the alleged victims before trial?

It's a straight forward question and surely a lawyer, as you purport yourself to be, should have no trouble answering it.

Re: this part of your post: "a lawyer doesn't want to take a statement from a witness unless he wants to make himself a witness in the case and you can't be both a lawyer and a witness"

WTF are you even talking about? What you wrote makes absolutely no sense. It's perfectly normal/legal for defense attorneys and their investigators to interview witnesses. Lawyers do it ALL the time, especially trial lawyers (who spend most of their time interviewing witnesses and conducting legal research). It's a giant part of their jobs if they are doing their jobs properly. You have gone off the deep end pal....
For your question in bold face. Yes, Sandusky got excellent representation. He got better representation than 99% of criminal defendants in this country, with not just one but two qualified attorneys.

The reason he will die in prison is because he's guilty.

And no, you can't just look stuff up on the Internet and become an expert in the law any more than you can look stuff up on the Internet and become an expert in cardiology.

And depositions became an issue because you said Amendola should have taken the victims depositions and I had to show to why that wasn't possible.

And in 99.9% of all cases the defense attorney has only the witnesses statements to police and GJ testimony to go on, and Amendola had both.

And yes a lawyer can't be a lawyer and witness in a case (except as to attorneys fees). That's Model Rule of Professional Conduct 3.7.

When you realized your error, you changed your hypothetical.

You need professional help.

Seriously.
 
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I never said anyone, outside of Sandusky, was guilty of anything. That said, if you can't admit changing public opinion of Joe is why you're giving Soapy a pass you're more deluded than I thought.

I'm not giving anybody a pass. I wouldn't even defend Curley, who I know personally to be an honorable man, until I read the email exchange and realized they were in no way dealing with CSA, but trying to prevent the lawsuit waiting to happen because of Sandusky's inappropriateness.

I'm fully prepared to defend C/S/S, along with Joe even if Clemente is spot on about Jerry. But with what has come out regarding this mess since 2012, I believe Clemente's report would read differently if written today.
 
For your question in bold face. Yes, Sandusky got excellent representation. He got better representation than 99% of criminal defendants in this country, with not just one but two qualified attorneys.

The reason he will die in prison is because he's guilty.

And no, you can't just look stuff up on the Internet and become an expert in the law any more than you can look stuff up on the Internet and become an expert in cardiology.

And depositions became an issue because you said Amendola should have taken the victims depositions and I had to show to why that wasn't possible.

And in 99.9% of all cases the defense attorney has only the witnesses statements to police and GJ testimony to go on, and Amendola had both.

And yes a lawyer can't be a lawyer and witness in a case (except as to attorneys fees). That's Model Rule of Professional Conduct 3.7.

When you realized your error, you changed your hypothetical.

You need professional help.

Seriously.

I don't consider Karl Rominger a qualified attorney, not after he has admitted misappropriating $535,000 of his client's money for personal use.

Joe Amendola may have been better than a public defender but probably not. I don't believe he was at all effective in his defense of Sandusky and I believe he made mistakes that a competent attorney would not have made which more than likely would have changed the result of the trial.

He was totally unprepared. He should have walked away from the case when his request for continuances were denied and he realized that he was unable to offer a defense that his client deserved. He provided Jerry Sandusky with terrible advise:
-advised him to not challenge the AF charges when he was first indicated
-advised him against having a preliminary hearing that could have exposed more of the accuser's stories
-promised the jury that JS would testify and then walked it back
-was totally unprepared for cross examining the accusers and challenging their accounts
-advised him to give Costas interview without preparing him and telling him how to deny charges
-total mismanagement of v2 charges and not introducing AM statement
-total mismanagement of v8 charges and not bringing in Calhoun statement
-not calling out the deplorable behavior of the OAG for their acts of prosecutorial misconduct

1. The false grand jury presentment that Mike McQueary witnessed an anal rape in the shower
2. The illegal OAG grand jury leak in March 2011 to Sara Ganim in their quest to identify more accusers
3. The OAG investigators suggesting testimony to v4 after he already made a statement and before he went before the grand jury (this was taped unbeknownst to investigators)
4. The OAG making a knowingly false statement when they said v2 was "unknown to us...known to God but not to us."
5. Using Sandusky's constitutional right to remain silent against him in closing arguments
6. Charging Spanier, Curley, and Schultz with criminal offenses when they apparently have no intentions of prosecuting them so they wouldn't be defense witnesses

Jerry Sandusky did not get a fair trial. The question of his guilt is unresolved. If Judge Cleland has a shred of objectively, I believe he will order hearings into the issues identified in the PCRA. What do you believe the Commonwealth will have to say in their response to the Petition? What does Lindsay have wrong?
 
I don't consider Karl Rominger a qualified attorney, not after he has admitted misappropriating $535,000 of his client's money for personal use.....

One of the things that stood out to me at the trial was how obvious it was that Rominger mailed it in when he cross examined MM.
 
One of the things that stood out to me at the trial was how obvious it was that Rominger mailed it in when he cross examined MM.

Rominger was not paid for his work on the Sandusky case. He was hired because he was free.

Joe Amendola told Rominger that he would be cross examining Mike McQueary 15 minutes before MM took the stand! I can't believe that the defense could be that so unprepared for one of the most important witnesses of the trial.
 
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I'm not giving anybody a pass. I wouldn't even defend Curley, who I know personally to be an honorable man, until I read the email exchange and realized they were in no way dealing with CSA, but trying to prevent the lawsuit waiting to happen because of Sandusky's inappropriateness.

I'm fully prepared to defend C/S/S, along with Joe even if Clemente is spot on about Jerry. But with what has come out regarding this mess since 2012, I believe Clemente's report would read differently if written today.
Why would his report be any different? Just because you choose to buy the defense arguments doesn't mean he would.

You act like there's concrete evidence that every single victim is lying, that's not the case.

As far as this not being about Joe, lulz. The one site dedicated to freeing Sandusky is named FramingPaterno.com, I rest my case.
 
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Why would his report be any different? Just because you choose to buy the defense arguments doesn't mean he would.

You act like there's concrete evidence that every single victim is lying, that's not the case.

As far as this not being about Joe, lulz. The one site dedicated to freeing Sandusky is named FramingPaterno.com, I rest my case.


You're wacky.
 
For your question in bold face. Yes, Sandusky got excellent representation. He got better representation than 99% of criminal defendants in this country, with not just one but two qualified attorneys.

The reason he will die in prison is because he's guilty.

And no, you can't just look stuff up on the Internet and become an expert in the law any more than you can look stuff up on the Internet and become an expert in cardiology.

And depositions became an issue because you said Amendola should have taken the victims depositions and I had to show to why that wasn't possible.

And in 99.9% of all cases the defense attorney has only the witnesses statements to police and GJ testimony to go on, and Amendola had both.

And yes a lawyer can't be a lawyer and witness in a case (except as to attorneys fees). That's Model Rule of Professional Conduct 3.7.

When you realized your error, you changed your hypothetical.

You need professional help.

Seriously.

JS got excellent representation?? LOL ok well you're definitely someone with an agenda or an idiot. One of his "qualified attorneys" was disbarred recently. Yeah thats a great indicator of a good lawyer lol!! Or did you forget about that? Steves above post did an excellent job describing how many ways JS counsel dropped the ball big time so no need for me to repeat them all.

If I accidentally said that Amendola should have taken a depo (instead of an interview) in one of my earlier posts then thats my bad however ive made it abundantly clear that has nothing to do with my point, and I've clarified numerous times since then that they should have tried to INTERVIEW the victims before trial (im not even disagreeing with you on this) yet you're still harping on it. Get over yourself dude.

Where did I say that JS's counsel needed to be a lawyer and a witness in the case? More strawman I see. If taking an interview of a witness makes you a witness then guess what, just have someone else do the interview, such as a private investigator.

JS counsel was ineffective because they inexplicably believed the oag's claim that they werent allowed to talk to the victims before trial ( and a number of other reasons in addition to this one example). That claim from the oag is completely false and you yourself admitted defense counsel is allowed to try and speak to prosecustion witnesses. So what exactly is your beef with my post? All I see coming from you is a bunch of bs nonsense.
 
I'm not giving anybody a pass. I wouldn't even defend Curley, who I know personally to be an honorable man, until I read the email exchange and realized they were in no way dealing with CSA, but trying to prevent the lawsuit waiting to happen because of Sandusky's inappropriateness.

I'm fully prepared to defend C/S/S, along with Joe even if Clemente is spot on about Jerry. But with what has come out regarding this mess since 2012, I believe Clemente's report would read differently if written today.

I don't think for a second Clemente or the Paterno's have stated anything that remotely backs up what you just typed. If they have I apologize, but I don't think that is the case.
 
I don't consider Karl Rominger a qualified attorney, not after he has admitted misappropriating $535,000 of his client's money for personal use.

Joe Amendola may have been better than a public defender but probably not. I don't believe he was at all effective in his defense of Sandusky and I believe he made mistakes that a competent attorney would not have made which more than likely would have changed the result of the trial.

He was totally unprepared. He should have walked away from the case when his request for continuances were denied and he realized that he was unable to offer a defense that his client deserved. He provided Jerry Sandusky with terrible advise:
-advised him to not challenge the AF charges when he was first indicated
-advised him against having a preliminary hearing that could have exposed more of the accuser's stories
-promised the jury that JS would testify and then walked it back
-was totally unprepared for cross examining the accusers and challenging their accounts
-advised him to give Costas interview without preparing him and telling him how to deny charges
-total mismanagement of v2 charges and not introducing AM statement
-total mismanagement of v8 charges and not bringing in Calhoun statement
-not calling out the deplorable behavior of the OAG for their acts of prosecutorial misconduct

1. The false grand jury presentment that Mike McQueary witnessed an anal rape in the shower
2. The illegal OAG grand jury leak in March 2011 to Sara Ganim in their quest to identify more accusers
3. The OAG investigators suggesting testimony to v4 after he already made a statement and before he went before the grand jury (this was taped unbeknownst to investigators)
4. The OAG making a knowingly false statement when they said v2 was "unknown to us...known to God but not to us."
5. Using Sandusky's constitutional right to remain silent against him in closing arguments
6. Charging Spanier, Curley, and Schultz with criminal offenses when they apparently have no intentions of prosecuting them so they wouldn't be defense witnesses

Jerry Sandusky did not get a fair trial. The question of his guilt is unresolved. If Judge Cleland has a shred of objectively, I believe he will order hearings into the issues identified in the PCRA. What do you believe the Commonwealth will have to say in their response to the Petition? What does Lindsay have wrong?
I addressed this before. Being a crooked lawyer doesn't necessarily make you a bad lawyer. F. Lee Bailey was one of the top half-dozen criminal defense attorneys of the last half of the 20th Century. But he was also a crook who stole client funds, got disbarred, and got sent to prison.
 
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Rominger was not paid for his work on the Sandusky case. He was hired because he was free.

Joe Amendola told Rominger that he would be cross examining Mike McQueary 15 minutes before MM took the stand! I can't believe that the defense could be that so unprepared for one of the most important witnesses of the trial.
What proof do you have that Rominger worked for free? The Second Mile's insurance company paid a half million dollars toward the defense and Sandusky paid a fairly substantial sum out of his own pocket (my recollection us is was something like $100,000). Under those circumstances, why would Rominger work for free? For months?

BTW, typically a defense attorney would get paid about $25-30,000 in a CSA case because that's all most people can afford to spend. A public defender might get something like $7,500.
 
I addressed this before. Being a crooked lawyer doesn't necessarily make you a bad lawyer. F. Lee Bailey was one of the top half-dozen criminal defense attorneys of the last half of the 20th Century. But he was also a crook who stole client funds, got disbarred and sent to prison.

Rominger was crooked and bad.
 
What proof do you have that Rominger worked for free? The Second Mile's insurance company paid a half million dollars toward the defense and Sandusky paid a fairly substantial sum out of his own pocket (my recollection us is was something like $100,000). Under those circumstances, why would Rominger work for free? For months?

BTW, typically a defense attorney would get paid about $25-30,000 in a CSA case because that's all most people can afford to spend. A public defender might get something like $7,500.

Whatever Sandusky paid, he didn't get his money's worth.

I see that you conveniently didn't address Joe Amendola's effectiveness or competence nor the instances of the OAG prosecutorial misconduct.

What do you think the Commonwealth's response to the Petition will be?

What does Al Lindsay have wrong?
 
JS counsel was ineffective because they inexplicably believed the oag's claim that they werent allowed to talk to the victims before trial ( and a number of other reasons in addition to this one example). That claim from the oag is completely false and you yourself admitted defense counsel is allowed to try and speak to prosecustion witnesses. So what exactly is your beef with my post? All I see coming from you is a bunch of bs nonsense.

There's no guarantee that a single victim would have agreed to an interview. It's actually highly unlikely they would've been willing to speak with anyone on the defense team.

I don't see a judge granting a new trial because of it.
 
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Whatever Sandusky paid, he didn't get his money's worth.

I see that you conveniently didn't address Joe Amendola's effectiveness or competence nor the instances of the OAG prosecutorial misconduct.

What do you think the Commonwealth's response to the Petition will be?

What does Al Lindsay have wrong?
Amendola did a good job with what he had, which was a guilty client. As I recall, he did an amazing job in closing argument and many people thought, before the jury came back, that he'd turned the case around. The problem was all the evidence was against him.
 
Amendola did a good job with what he had, which was a guilty client. As I recall, he did an amazing job in closing argument and many people thought, before the jury came back, that he'd turned the case around. The problem was all the evidence was against him.

He was as incompetent as you can get. Evidence..LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Amendola did a good job with what he had, which was a guilty client. As I recall, he did an amazing job in closing argument and many people thought, before the jury came back, that he'd turned the case around. The problem was all the evidence was against him.

The deck was stacked against him. Amendola was in over his head. The OAG committed several acts of prosecutorial misconduct. The community was very hostile and the judge made several erroneous decisions. It was a kangaroo court and nowhere close to being fair or a level playing field.
 
The deck was stacked against him. Amendola was in over his head. The OAG committed several acts of prosecutorial misconduct. The community was very hostile and the judge made several erroneous decisions. It was a kangaroo court and nowhere close to being fair or a level playing field.

I guess CDW keeps forgetting that Amendola himself had such a lack of confidence in his ability to properly defend JS that he tried to recuse himself but Cleland wouldn't allow it for some reason. That pretty much sums it up right there.
 
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For your question in bold face. Yes, Sandusky got excellent representation. He got better representation than 99% of criminal defendants in this country, with not just one but two qualified attorneys.

The reason he will die in prison is because he's guilty.

And no, you can't just look stuff up on the Internet and become an expert in the law any more than you can look stuff up on the Internet and become an expert in cardiology.

And depositions became an issue because you said Amendola should have taken the victims depositions and I had to show to why that wasn't possible.

And in 99.9% of all cases the defense attorney has only the witnesses statements to police and GJ testimony to go on, and Amendola had both.

And yes a lawyer can't be a lawyer and witness in a case (except as to attorneys fees). That's Model Rule of Professional Conduct 3.7.

When you realized your error, you changed your hypothetical.

You need professional help.

Seriously.
How much are you getting PAID to spew this BS!!!!
By certifiable trial actions alone....Both lawyers showed that they could not effectively represent ANYONE!! REASON - well..... maybe its because both lawyers have the potential for "outside influences" being a factor in how they conducted themselves in their case development and trial strategies. Honestly, a legal intern would not conduct as poor a defense as what we saw here.

NEXT...Your statement about Sandusky's representation being better than 99% of criminal defendants in this country....What????....maybe better than a Black person who was accused in 1931 in Mississippi and was judged by a jury of KKK members.. THAT kind of justice I agree applies to the Sandusky's case.

Come on...the number of legal question marks in this entire matter is staggering!!!

You miss the REAL CORE OF THIS.....Its not a matter of Sandusky's guilt or innocence - it a matter of protecting core legal rights and ultimately our system of American justice. Justice is NOT JUST ABOUT is that person guilty or not. Its about was the process, evidence and legal representation. Was it good enough to insure a trial fair was conducted - was the evidence used to evaluate the accused untainted by process irregularities and was their reasonable proof that the evidence presented by the prosecution was not "tampered" with. THERE ARE SERIOUS and CREDIBLE doubts about these issues.

Let's face it 4 YEARS LATER....we really don't know with any certainty that what was accused was evaluated on REAL FACTS. ..."Guilty or Innocent"...no matter WHAT "side" people believe is the ultimate judgement on Sandusky - rational people who want true justice to prevail have no choice but to say that what we know about the Sandusky trial is it was a sham. A new trial with better oversight of evidence and effective legal representation is not an unreasonable request.
 
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