WRESTLING TALK - 174

[RoarLions1]

The 7th of 10 write-ups for "who's returning, best guess on movement, and who's new". ENJOY!!

174
Six of eight All-Americans return, including the top-4, Zahid Valencia (AZST, 1st), Mark Hall (PSU, 2nd), Myles Amine (MICH, 3rd), and Daniel Lewis (MIZZ, 4th). Rounding out the AA returnees are Jordan Kutler (LEH, 6th) and Jacobe Smith (OKST, 8th). In addition, three R12 guys return, all upcoming Juniors, in Dylan Lydy (PUR), Taylor Lujan (UNI), and Ben Harvey (Army).

Heaven only knows where Zahid ends up. “No way he’s 174”, “best to get him Friday Night before he fully hydrates on Saturday”, “he’s 20 pounds heavier than Mark”. Sorry all, give it up…I have no insight into this coming season, just give the guy some credit for past performance. That’s over with, though the future is not certain, and if the Sun Devils are so inclined, they could insert blue chipper Jacori Teemer, and move both the Valencia’s up. Time will tell.

Another question mark is Jacobe Smith. An AA in March at 174, it looks like he’ll be pushed to 184 by JoJo Smith (OKST), whose coming off RS, and may be moving up two weights from his last official wrestling. Even if JoJo goes 165, that pushes AA Chandler Rogers to 174, and Jacobe still goes 184 to battle Dakota Geer (RS last year, and now a Cowboy by way of EDIN) for the starting spot.

Another guy that makes this a tougher weight class is Mike Kemerer, moving up two weight classes, doing it in one year after finishing 4th at 157 in Cleveland.

Next are a group of four Seniors, all capable of making the podium in their final season. They are Brandon Womack (CORN, AA at 165 in 2017), Christian Brucki (CMU), Johnny Sebastian (NU), and Te’Shan Campbell (tOSU). Te’Shan should benefit the most after a tough cut to 165 last year, by most accounts. Others of note; Daniel Bullard (NCST, twin brother Thomas goes 165 for the ‘Pack), and Devin Skatzka (MINN, by way of IND).

Micheal Labriola (NEB) is the class of the RS Freshmen at 174, and other than possibly the Teemer mention above, true freshmen near the top does not look likely.

As a weight class, 174 is really good. The top, if no one moves, is as good as any weight class, the incoming guys (Kemerer and Smith, specifically) give it MORE star power, and every one of the other guys noted could AA. That’s something like 17 guys vying for 8 placements.

I really like our guy here. Fun season ahead for Mark .

 

[jrd23psu]

If Zahid stays at 174lbs it's Zahid and Mark Hall in the finals again. Both will be undefeated. Nobody else at this weight has the skills to beat either of them. If Zahid moves there are a few guys who could see Mark in the finals. Kemerer and Kutler are the two I'd put money on.

 

[tikk10]

FS isn't folk, but Zahid looked amazing this summer, trouncing Ringer and pushing Dake into the second period. Both at 79kg, which is 174lbs. If he's going up I doubt it's because making 174 is the issue; it's either about making room on the team or bulking up to ease transition to 86kg in 2020.

 

[tikk10]

Very interested to see who Roar pencils in at 184, 197, and HWT for PSU.

 

[vhsalum]

Zahid will be at 174.

 

[vhsalum]

The Kemerer-Hall match is going to be a good one. Z beat Hall by attacking him and being better in the scrambles. I'm not sure Kemerer is that good of a scrambler, but at the least, he's going to go after Marky.

 

[nerfstate]

The Kemerer-Hall match is going to be a good one. Z beat Hall by attacking him and being better in the scrambles. I'm not sure Kemerer is that good of a scrambler, but at the least, he's going to go after Marky.

It's just insane to think there is someone better than Mark Hall in scrambles, but you aren't wrong. Z gonna win world titles for the US of A, only a matter of time. I feel pretty confident Mark could too though.

Not sure I agree on Kutler--I think Amine is my #3.

 

[RoarLions1]

Very interested to see who Roar pencils in at 184, 197, and HWT for PSU.

I'm interested too .

 

[Ban Basketball]

I'm not sure how huge wrestling news stories escape me so easily, but when and where was it announced that Kemerer is going 174 this year? News to me...

 

[RoarLions1]

I'm not sure how huge wrestling news stories escape me so easily, but when and where was it announced that Kemerer is going 174 this year? News to me...

Haven't you heard it even suggested? Just curious, as that answer speaks volumes.

 

[Ban Basketball]

Haven't you heard it even suggested? Just curious, as that answer speaks volumes.

Trust me, I'm not doubting it, if it came off that way. It just surprised me.

With that said, no, I haven't heard or read even a whisper of it until this thread.

 

[nerfstate]

Trust me, I'm not doubting it, if it came off that way. It just surprised me.

With that said, no, I haven't heard or read even a whisper of it until this thread.

I don't recall the source, but I believe even Tom Brands has confirmed it at this point. You must have all Iowa threads and/or HR posters on ignore (not a bad choice on this board....)

 

[vhsalum]

It's just insane to think there is someone better than Mark Hall in scrambles, but you aren't wrong. Z gonna win world titles for the US of A, only a matter of time. I feel pretty confident Mark could too though.

Not sure I agree on Kutler--I think Amine is my #3.

Kemdawg is going to beat Amine. I'm not sure it will be close. Kem is going to be a matchup nightmare for most of the 174s. He attacks at the same rate Z does.

With the exception of 157, every weight is going to be fun to watch this year, with multiple national champion possibilities. I love the shifting of weights. Wish coaches could be more forthright earlier, but the Fix/Picc scenario, Nickal to 197, JoJo/Rogers/Smith are all intriguing and at the best schools.

Oh. and I'm done picking against Vincenzo. He could take multiple losses during the year, but he's going to win 165.

 

[Ban Basketball]

I don't recall the source, but I believe even Tom Brands has confirmed it at this point. You must have all Iowa threads and/or HR posters on ignore (not a bad choice on this board....)

More so, and the likely reason why it was news to me today is that I admittedly don't take the time to read every thread and/or reply on a message board. That's probably why it escaped me.

 

[Ban Basketball]

Just curious, as that answer speaks volumes.

I'm not sure which exact "volumes" that it would speak to, but it was just an oversight on my part and no harm intended by the oversight.

 

[RoarLions1]

Kemdawg is going to beat Amine. I'm not sure it will be close. Kem is going to be a matchup nightmare for most of the 174s. He attacks at the same rate Z does.

If history is any indication, it will be close. Using all of 2017-18 as an example, Amine didn't lose a single bout by more than 2 points, losing to Zahid twice (both by 2 points), Mark twice (both by one point), and Bo Jordan (by 2 points). Also lost to Kutler and Lydy (by one and two points, respectively). I believe it will be close.

 

[RoarLions1]

I'm not sure which exact "volumes" that it would speak to, but it was just an oversight on my part and no harm intended by the oversight.

You come across as knowledgeable, following several forums, and a big UNI fan. Just surprised, as the Kemerer move has been suggested, implied, and has even made it in print (see Wrestlestat) many times in the past month or two. Maybe you're avoiding a particular forum , and don't look at Wrestlestat??

 

[y2jriden]

I don't get the people sleeping on Amine. In addition to what Roar had above, the guy has finished 3rd and 4th in his two years and his only losses ever at nationals are to Zahid. He's no easy out. I think he's clearly earned #3 until something knocks him from that ranking. Maybe Kemerer will beat him but Amine has to be the most underrated guy in the country. I don't know of anyone who has finished 3rd and 4th in his first two years and is talked about less. That being said, I don't see him beating Zahid or Mark. He's kinda the Sorenson of the weight.

 

[tabenn]

Zahid will be at 174.

pure guess at this point..but if Zahid stays at 174..I say Hall will use a RS this year...just a guess--I do not have insider information.

 

[tikk10]

You come across as knowledgeable, following several forums, and a big UNI fan. Just surprised, as the Kemerer move has been suggested, implied, and has even made it in print (see Wrestlestat) many times in the past month or two. Maybe you're avoiding a particular forum , and don't look at Wrestlestat??

To be [un]fair to Wrestlestat, anyone can change a wrestler's weight class there. Or maybe it's anyone with a login. I believe @andegre changes a lot of them himself, and he's plugged in to the Iowa program, so I'd tend to trust the Iowa lineup there.

Re Kem, I've heard the same for months on Twitter and it doesn't seem to be in dispute.

 

[nitlion6]

The Kemerer-Hall match is going to be a good one. Z beat Hall by attacking him and being better in the scrambles. I'm not sure Kemerer is that good of a scrambler, but at the least, he's going to go after Marky.

I hate like hell to be this definitive, but no. Kemerer is not pushing Mark by attacking him. Kemerer getting after Mark will look a lot like Lewis getting after Mark.

 

[Ban Basketball]

You come across as knowledgeable, following several forums, and a big UNI fan. Just surprised, as the Kemerer move has been suggested, implied, and has even made it in print (see Wrestlestat) many times in the past month or two. Maybe you're avoiding a particular forum , and don't look at Wrestlestat??

Actually, I only follow two forums with any regularity, those being this one and panther nation. As I said before, I don't read every post or thread, so, yes, much can escape me.

Wrestlestat I use only during the regular season, so anything new about Kemerer going 174 would have been missed.

 

[Flying_Tiger]

I think Hall is a bad matchup for Kemerer also but I guess we will see. Overall, I think MK is going to have some work to do just to match his placements at 157. 174 has several guys other than Hall and Valencia that are capable of placing ahead, imo, starting with Amine, Lewis and Cutler. Labriola also may be very good right out if the gate.

 

[nitlion6]

pure guess at this point..but if Zahid stays at 174..I say Hall will use a RS this year...just a guess--I do not have insider information.

Nah. First, they don't have a capable replacement. Second, despite the belief held by the majority on HR Cael, Casey and Cody can coach and there will be necessary adjustments made.

 

[pointingdogsrule]

Trust me, I'm not doubting it, if it came off that way. It just surprised me.

With that said, no, I haven't heard or read even a whisper of it until this thread.

That's because HR has banned you

 

[tabenn]

Nah. First, they don't have a capable replacement. Second, despite the belief held by the majority on HR Cael, Casey and Cody can coach and there will be necessary adjustments made.

Manville isn't capable? It is my understanding that Mason first love is Greco, but I would assume that he would be able to hold his own with most at 174 in folk, and I would think that he would have a better then average chance to AA.

I am 100% confident the the PSU staff will /would have Mark ready for a rematch with Zahid, I just dont know if its in the cards for Mark to beat Zahid after a saturday morning weigh in and a full day to hydrate. Now if they are in the same bracket and the meet say Friday morning--different animal---but just an opinion.

 

[Ban Basketball]

That's because HR has banned you

Yes, but I can still read their forums, just as I can any of the other forums that have banned me. I just can't log into them.

However, I kind of lost interest and respect in all of them, for good personal reasons.

 

[nerfstate]

Manville isn't capable? It is my understanding that Mason first love is Greco, but I would assume that he would be able to hold his own with most at 174 in folk, and I would think that he would have a better then average chance to AA.

I am 100% confident the the PSU staff will /would have Mark ready for a rematch with Zahid, I just dont know if its in the cards for Mark to beat Zahid after a saturday morning weigh in and a full day to hydrate. Now if they are in the same bracket and the meet say Friday morning--different animal---but just an opinion.

Something about taking a redshirt to avoid an opponent just doesn't say "Cael Sanderson" or "Mark Hall" to me.

I have heard some limited "room" intel on Manville--I'm sure he'd be serviceable, but AA caliber in folk may be pushing it. Of course my intel is very limited, and I certainly wouldn't want to discount him before puts the singlet on....

 

[RoarLions1]

Manville isn't capable? It is my understanding that Mason first love is Greco, but I would assume that he would be able to hold his own with most at 174 in folk, and I would think that he would have a better then average chance to AA.

I am 100% confident the the PSU staff will /would have Mark ready for a rematch with Zahid, I just dont know if its in the cards for Mark to beat Zahid after a saturday morning weigh in and a full day to hydrate. Now if they are in the same bracket and the meet say Friday morning--different animal---but just an opinion.

Something about taking a redshirt to avoid an opponent just doesn't say "Cael Sanderson" or "Mark Hall" to me.

I have heard some limited "room" intel on Manville--I'm sure he'd be serviceable, but AA caliber in folk may be pushing it. Of course my intel is very limited, and I certainly wouldn't want to discount him before puts the singlet on....

Risk/reward stuff. Not many in the country at Mark's level, let alone in the Penn State room. Mason and many others help Mark be a better wrestler...but equaling his points at NCAA's is not likely.

 

[El-Jefe]

pure guess at this point..but if Zahid stays at 174..I say Hall will use a RS this year...just a guess--I do not have insider information.

Next man up would likely be Manville, who last year went 3-2, 3 wins over backups, 2 shutout losses to starters. At 165.

 

[vhsalum]

Manville isn't capable? It is my understanding that Mason first love is Greco, but I would assume that he would be able to hold his own with most at 174 in folk, and I would think that he would have a better then average chance to AA.

I am 100% confident the the PSU staff will /would have Mark ready for a rematch with Zahid, I just dont know if its in the cards for Mark to beat Zahid after a saturday morning weigh in and a full day to hydrate. Now if they are in the same bracket and the meet say Friday morning--different animal---but just an opinion.

Mark is bigger than Zahid.

 

[Grass]

Mark had a question/answer session on Instagram a month or so ago. Someone asked him what his walk around weight is. He answered 168.

 

[D3wrestler]

Mark is bigger than Zahid.

First I have heard that

 

[nitlion6]

Manville isn't capable? It is my understanding that Mason first love is Greco, but I would assume that he would be able to hold his own with most at 174 in folk, and I would think that he would have a better then average chance to AA.

I am 100% confident the the PSU staff will /would have Mark ready for a rematch with Zahid, I just dont know if its in the cards for Mark to beat Zahid after a saturday morning weigh in and a full day to hydrate. Now if they are in the same bracket and the meet say Friday morning--different animal---but just an opinion.

Forgot about Manville.
It wasn't Valencia's size that got Mark this year. He wrestled better. He got Mark leaning in numerous times and took great shots.
Adjustments will be made and he will be better prepared.

 

[dwkeller]

Mark is not going to stand still. I believe he will be more offensive and study the loss to Valencia closely. His LT goals are to win FS and Olympics, and his determination will put in right there.

Go Mark!

 

[dunkej01]

Forgot about Manville.
It wasn't Valencia's size that got Mark this year. He wrestled better. He got Mark leaning in numerous times and took great shots.
Adjustments will be made and he will be better prepared.

Size or length?

 

[RoarLions1]

Size or length?

It matters

 

[PSUcup1]

First I have heard that

He’s not. Look at the picture of the 2018 Champions. Zahid is every bit as tall and broad as Nickal.

Now look at any of numerous pictures of Hall next to Bo. He’s a good 2-3” shorter.

 

[dunkej01]

He’s not. Look at the picture of the 2018 Champions. Zahid is every bit as tall and broad as Nickal.

Now look at any of numerous pictures of Hall next to Bo. He’s a good 2-3” shorter.

 

[Cali_Nittany]

Mark is bigger than Zahid.

First I have heard that

Maybe he meant Mark Henry