What was this referree thinking... Wrestler had to cut off his dreadlocks or forfeit a match
- Thread starter amalone
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I really want to say he wasn't thinking, but from what I have read he was thinking and I don't like what I think he was thinking. If it was me he would never ref another match.
I saw that in the local news last night and immediately thought about Shakur last year...
This has been all over the place on social media and I am surprised it took to long to find it's way here.
From what I can gather from others comments, per the rules wrestler needed a legal head covering and didn't have one. However also according to the rules the proper time to address this should have been at the weigh in prior to the match.
Add in the refs past and this is not the kind of publicity that the sport of wrestling needs.
From what I can gather from others comments, per the rules wrestler needed a legal head covering and didn't have one. However also according to the rules the proper time to address this should have been at the weigh in prior to the match.
Add in the refs past and this is not the kind of publicity that the sport of wrestling needs.
He had the head covering at the weigh in, but the ref failed to check it.
Great job growing the sport. Have racist refs. Ugh.
No. The wrestler should give the ref a haircut on the mat, during a match.
Surprised no one has mentioned was he breaking the rules or not ? Why is everything about racism.
Rules are rules, 1 ref has the guts to enforce and he is labeled. Wrong.
Around 15 years ago one of my son's team mates was in the same situtaion. Hair cut or not wrestle. Parents no where to be found. Wrestler wanted to wrestle and let a volunteer coach cut some hair.
Parents called police and 3 hours later the state police showed up and parents wanted this teacher carged with assault. Child wanted to wrestle.
This teacher almost had his life ruined for helping out.
Truth be known I wouldn't be surprised if the child who is wrestling would prefer a buzz cut like every other wrestler. I would take a close look at the parents.
Rules are rules, 1 ref has the guts to enforce and he is labeled. Wrong.
Around 15 years ago one of my son's team mates was in the same situtaion. Hair cut or not wrestle. Parents no where to be found. Wrestler wanted to wrestle and let a volunteer coach cut some hair.
Parents called police and 3 hours later the state police showed up and parents wanted this teacher carged with assault. Child wanted to wrestle.
This teacher almost had his life ruined for helping out.
Truth be known I wouldn't be surprised if the child who is wrestling would prefer a buzz cut like every other wrestler. I would take a close look at the parents.
I participated in and coached swimming for years. I never had long hair but I’ve seen kids tuck huge amounts of hair into a cap. Put that under a wrestler’s head gear, no problem.
I am ignorant as to why the length of one’s hair would matter. Is this an issue with women’s wrestling?
I am ignorant as to why the length of one’s hair would matter. Is this an issue with women’s wrestling?
Wow (as to last paragraph).
Also, a little tip. If one casually throws out the N word in public, it might come back to bite you. Hence, why the ref is really getting dragged now.
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Wasn’t making an excuse...what would have been the reason if not a person of color?
Bravo Sierra.
Ref broke the rules by failing to check legal equipment, then enforced the rule he broke by humiliating the teenager publicly.
I don't know if this is racism or ignorance or CYA or about-me-ism, or some combination, regardless the ref f-ed up.
We stand corrected. A white, male ref who has gone around dropping the N word like it's 1959, publicly humiliates a young man of color. Why would anyone suspect racism?!?!
During the weigh ins the ref should check the skin, fingernails and hair length. He can tell the coach that the nails need cut or hair needs covered. That settles matters before going out to the mat. If a wrestler has a possible contagious skin disease he can not wrestle (it can’t just be covered). He may have a certification from an MD that the skin defect is not contagious and that settles that matter.
The article and the news reports I saw said that the wrestler wore a hair cover. The ref must accept that as compliance with the rules. He may or may not be a racist but he screwed up by not accepting the hair cover.
I was a high school referee in PA and WV and I know that some referees (not many) like to make themselves part of the story. If you know the rules and follow them this type of incident would never happen.
The article and the news reports I saw said that the wrestler wore a hair cover. The ref must accept that as compliance with the rules. He may or may not be a racist but he screwed up by not accepting the hair cover.
I was a high school referee in PA and WV and I know that some referees (not many) like to make themselves part of the story. If you know the rules and follow them this type of incident would never happen.
So Alec Pantaleo uses the Alt-Right Pepe the Frog Meme, showing his true character and anything he posts now loses all credibility as it is borne of wacky conspiracy theories. Good to know.
From eyewitness account: The hair cover for Andrew Johnson was not required because of the length according to the official, rather because it was unnatural. Official told Johnson he would need a hair cover at weigh ins, Johnson said he had one, but Official didn't inspect. Christian Pyles (@CPyles8)
The referee in question is under investigate by the NJSIAA (New Jersey State Interscholastic Athletic Association).
A New Jersey referee who forced a high school wrestler to cut his dreadlocks before his match on Wednesday or forfeit altogether is under investigation and will not be assigned until the review is completed, officials said.
The New Jersey State Interscholastic Athletic Association [NJSIAA] announced in a statement on Saturday that the incident which went viral this week will be investigated by state authorities.
“Further, NJSIAA can confirm that those groups that assign high school wrestling referees in New Jersey will not assign the referee in question until this matter has been thoroughly reviewed. This will help to avoid disruption of events for student athletes,” Larry White, the executive director of the NJSIAA, said in a statement.
https://www.foxnews.com/sports/new-...readlocks-before-match-is-under-investigation
Jordan Burroughs speaks out on this incident:
http://www.espn.com/olympics/story/...ghs-critical-ref-reaches-high-school-wrestler
A New Jersey referee who forced a high school wrestler to cut his dreadlocks before his match on Wednesday or forfeit altogether is under investigation and will not be assigned until the review is completed, officials said.
The New Jersey State Interscholastic Athletic Association [NJSIAA] announced in a statement on Saturday that the incident which went viral this week will be investigated by state authorities.
“Further, NJSIAA can confirm that those groups that assign high school wrestling referees in New Jersey will not assign the referee in question until this matter has been thoroughly reviewed. This will help to avoid disruption of events for student athletes,” Larry White, the executive director of the NJSIAA, said in a statement.
https://www.foxnews.com/sports/new-...readlocks-before-match-is-under-investigation
Jordan Burroughs speaks out on this incident:
http://www.espn.com/olympics/story/...ghs-critical-ref-reaches-high-school-wrestler
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I stand by my statement. A ref who doesn’t know the rules and then pulls this crap should not be a ref.
In our family we call this a “Joe West”. (You know the awful baseball ump).
Frankly I have no idea the skin color of the wrestler in question. I made an assumption tho. Not sure what that says about me.
Not all ref are at the weigh in. Some times they have jobs and can't get to the meet until after the weigh in etc. I officiate and I let stuff like this go, because it is ticky tacky stuff that does not matter to me. However, if the hair was in dreads and they were abrasive, I would have made the kid put on a legal hair cover. Also, they will definitely do that in the state series- at least in Illinois.
Was or is the ref a racist? - Very possibly. I have not gone back and witnessed or read anything about what he has done in the past. Was this a racist act? - Possibly. Did he follow the rules? - sounds like it. Is it understandable that the kid could have gotten all the way to the mat before the problem was discovered? - yes and fairly common. Could the ref have said no problem? - sure Was he wrong to enforce the rule as he saw fit? - no.
I realize that some people like to shout and scream any time any racist portrayed action occurs. I also understand that if this is the worst example of racism we encounter this year, we should be dancing in the streets.
Was or is the ref a racist? - Very possibly. I have not gone back and witnessed or read anything about what he has done in the past. Was this a racist act? - Possibly. Did he follow the rules? - sounds like it. Is it understandable that the kid could have gotten all the way to the mat before the problem was discovered? - yes and fairly common. Could the ref have said no problem? - sure Was he wrong to enforce the rule as he saw fit? - no.
I realize that some people like to shout and scream any time any racist portrayed action occurs. I also understand that if this is the worst example of racism we encounter this year, we should be dancing in the streets.
Will wait to hear/read more facts. Once again, a story is all over the place early on. Too serious to jump to conclusions.
Actually, to be fair to Pantaleo, I believe he is referencing the Kermit the Frog drinking tea meme which has non-offensive connotations - it’s like putting something out there and then stepping back by saying “but that’s none of my business”. It’s totally different than the Nazi frog meme you guys are referencing.
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Thank you for a voice of reason! My sentiments exactly. A rush to judgment usually misses material facts and creates (or magnifies) the problem and wrongly increases the body count.
lots of leaps to conclusions in this thread. that's somewhat disappointing, as 1) the entire saga has not been presented in the linked article, and 2) many seem to be uninformed of the rules,
It sounds as though this was a dual meet, as it took place on a Wednesday. In many instances at duals, the ref for the JV conducts the weigh-ins, where the skin, nail, and hair checks are also performed. As @lookleft goright indicated, there are also times when due to traffic issues, schedule issues, etc., a ref can't get to the weigh-in in time, so the process is conducted by the two head coaches. So at this time, we don't know if the ref that officiated the dual conducted the weigh-ins, or if a ref even conducted the weigh-ins.
Next, at weigh-ins, it's not uncommon for wrestlers to not have their headgear with them. In situations where a wrestler has long hair that exceeds the limits (below the eye brow, below the ear lobe, or below the collar), the ref will inform the wrestler that they need to cut their hair before they can wrestle. Or, they'll give them the option of wearing a hair covering. Similarly, in situations where the hair is braided, the ref will remind the wrestler that they have to wear a hair covering that is attached to the headgear. (That's the NFHS rule. Simple hair covers that are not attached to the headgear are illegal.) If the wrestler has the hair covering and headgear with them, the ref will inspect it, but as I mentioned at the start of the paragraph, it's not unusual for the wrestlers to not have their headgear with them. So at this time, we don't know if the ref that officiated, or the ref that conducted the weigh-ins, inspected the headgear to check that the hair cover attached to it.
At weigh-ins, it's not uncommon for wrestlers with long nails, or sideburns that are too long or hair/ facial hair that needs to be shaved, or long hair, to indicate that they'll address the problem after the weigh in, as the clipper, the razor, or the scissors are in an equipment bag that's not at the weigh ins. If they are wrestling JV, the ref that performed the weigh-ins will check them in the time between the weigh-ins and the start of the match. For varsity matches, it's not uncommon for the JV ref to simply inform the varsity ref, when that person arrives, of the deficiencies, and the varsity ref will check those specific wrestlers to ensure that the problem was addressed.
Once a wrestler presents on the mat to wrestle, if they are found to be wearing illegal uniforms, illegal equipment, lacking required equipment, etc., the NFHS rules are to put them on the injury clock. If they can not satisfy the problem by the time the injury time runs out, then they have to forfeit.
From the linked article, we do not know what took place in the conversation between the ref and the wrestler. My SUSPICION, based on years of being involved in this process, is that the wrestler presented at the mat with a hair covering that was not attached to the headgear. Once the ref noticed that, the NFHS rules would be to put the wrestler on the injury clock, and then inform him that he had to get a legal hair cover/headgear combo, and that if he didn't have that, that he needed to have his hair cut. My SUSPICION is that the ref asked the wrestler if they he had a legal hair cover/headgear combo, and once he/his coach indicated that he did not, the ref informed the wrestler that he needed to cut his hair or he would forfeit the match, and then put him on the injury clock. Because he was on the clock, and needed to resolve the situation quickly, and didn't want to forfeit the match, the hair cut was performed mat side, which also made it so that a fan or a reporter could video the prices.
While I was putting this together, I see that @RoarLions1 posted a short but wise post.
The ref in this incident is pretty well known, and has a good reputation as a ref.
In many ways, this reminds me of an incident that took place in a PIAA girls basketball district contest last winter. At the time, if an athlete had a religious requirement for wearing any type of head piece, they had to have a authorization form from the PIAA. Basically, the athlete would indicate they had to wear the head piece, the school would send a form home with the student to get signed. Once it was signed and returned to the school, they would transmit it to the PIAA, and the PIAA would automatically authorize it. In many cases, during the regular season, refs would encounter players wearing religious head pieces. They'd ask the coach for the form, and find out that they'd yet to receive a signed form back from the parents, or some other issue, and the refs would break the rules, and allow the athlete to compete. However, in the playoffs, the refs are always reminded of the official rules, and asked to enforce them. So last winter, a ref enforced the rule in a girls basketball district 12 playoff game in Philadelphia. When the coach could not produce the PIAA authorization form for the athlete, the ref ruled that the player could not play in the playoff game. The incident went viral, as it was on all the local TV stations, in all the newspapers, with all kinds of claims that the ref was prejudiced, etc. A bunch of local and state politicians also spouted off about the incident, and sent letters to the PIAA, or introduced rules in the PA legislature to allow athletes to wear religious headgear. The PIAA worked with the NFHS, and in most sports athletes no longer need an authorization form to wear religious head pieces. Interestingly, wrestling was an exception to that change. Wrestlers still need a PIAA authorization form to wear any type of religious head wrap.
It sounds as though this was a dual meet, as it took place on a Wednesday. In many instances at duals, the ref for the JV conducts the weigh-ins, where the skin, nail, and hair checks are also performed. As @lookleft goright indicated, there are also times when due to traffic issues, schedule issues, etc., a ref can't get to the weigh-in in time, so the process is conducted by the two head coaches. So at this time, we don't know if the ref that officiated the dual conducted the weigh-ins, or if a ref even conducted the weigh-ins.
Next, at weigh-ins, it's not uncommon for wrestlers to not have their headgear with them. In situations where a wrestler has long hair that exceeds the limits (below the eye brow, below the ear lobe, or below the collar), the ref will inform the wrestler that they need to cut their hair before they can wrestle. Or, they'll give them the option of wearing a hair covering. Similarly, in situations where the hair is braided, the ref will remind the wrestler that they have to wear a hair covering that is attached to the headgear. (That's the NFHS rule. Simple hair covers that are not attached to the headgear are illegal.) If the wrestler has the hair covering and headgear with them, the ref will inspect it, but as I mentioned at the start of the paragraph, it's not unusual for the wrestlers to not have their headgear with them. So at this time, we don't know if the ref that officiated, or the ref that conducted the weigh-ins, inspected the headgear to check that the hair cover attached to it.
At weigh-ins, it's not uncommon for wrestlers with long nails, or sideburns that are too long or hair/ facial hair that needs to be shaved, or long hair, to indicate that they'll address the problem after the weigh in, as the clipper, the razor, or the scissors are in an equipment bag that's not at the weigh ins. If they are wrestling JV, the ref that performed the weigh-ins will check them in the time between the weigh-ins and the start of the match. For varsity matches, it's not uncommon for the JV ref to simply inform the varsity ref, when that person arrives, of the deficiencies, and the varsity ref will check those specific wrestlers to ensure that the problem was addressed.
Once a wrestler presents on the mat to wrestle, if they are found to be wearing illegal uniforms, illegal equipment, lacking required equipment, etc., the NFHS rules are to put them on the injury clock. If they can not satisfy the problem by the time the injury time runs out, then they have to forfeit.
From the linked article, we do not know what took place in the conversation between the ref and the wrestler. My SUSPICION, based on years of being involved in this process, is that the wrestler presented at the mat with a hair covering that was not attached to the headgear. Once the ref noticed that, the NFHS rules would be to put the wrestler on the injury clock, and then inform him that he had to get a legal hair cover/headgear combo, and that if he didn't have that, that he needed to have his hair cut. My SUSPICION is that the ref asked the wrestler if they he had a legal hair cover/headgear combo, and once he/his coach indicated that he did not, the ref informed the wrestler that he needed to cut his hair or he would forfeit the match, and then put him on the injury clock. Because he was on the clock, and needed to resolve the situation quickly, and didn't want to forfeit the match, the hair cut was performed mat side, which also made it so that a fan or a reporter could video the prices.
While I was putting this together, I see that @RoarLions1 posted a short but wise post.
The ref in this incident is pretty well known, and has a good reputation as a ref.
In many ways, this reminds me of an incident that took place in a PIAA girls basketball district contest last winter. At the time, if an athlete had a religious requirement for wearing any type of head piece, they had to have a authorization form from the PIAA. Basically, the athlete would indicate they had to wear the head piece, the school would send a form home with the student to get signed. Once it was signed and returned to the school, they would transmit it to the PIAA, and the PIAA would automatically authorize it. In many cases, during the regular season, refs would encounter players wearing religious head pieces. They'd ask the coach for the form, and find out that they'd yet to receive a signed form back from the parents, or some other issue, and the refs would break the rules, and allow the athlete to compete. However, in the playoffs, the refs are always reminded of the official rules, and asked to enforce them. So last winter, a ref enforced the rule in a girls basketball district 12 playoff game in Philadelphia. When the coach could not produce the PIAA authorization form for the athlete, the ref ruled that the player could not play in the playoff game. The incident went viral, as it was on all the local TV stations, in all the newspapers, with all kinds of claims that the ref was prejudiced, etc. A bunch of local and state politicians also spouted off about the incident, and sent letters to the PIAA, or introduced rules in the PA legislature to allow athletes to wear religious headgear. The PIAA worked with the NFHS, and in most sports athletes no longer need an authorization form to wear religious head pieces. Interestingly, wrestling was an exception to that change. Wrestlers still need a PIAA authorization form to wear any type of religious head wrap.
Actually, to be fair to Pantaleo, I believe he is referencing the Kermit the Frog drinking tea meme which has non-offensive connotations - it’s like putting something out there and then stepping back by saying “but that’s none of my business”. It’s totally different than the Nazi frog meme you guys are referencing.
i must be getting old as hell. what on earth is a 'Nazi frog'?
I have seen hair cuts happen several times. The kid was either at the mat with legal attire or he wasn't. The rule book should decide this.
I am content knowing this new form of communication has evolved without me knowing anything about it.
Anyone who does not like my position regarding this new form of communication should get off my lawn.
If that is the case, my comment will be deleted.Actually, to be fair to Pantaleo, I believe he is referencing the Kermit the Frog drinking tea meme which has non-offensive connotations - it’s like putting something out there and then stepping back by saying “but that’s none of my business”. It’s totally different than the Nazi frog meme you guys are referencing.
Here you go.
That was my first take on Alec’s tweet too, but the kermit thing makes a lot more sense.
I am content knowing this new form of communication has evolved without me knowing anything about it.
Anyone who does not like my position regarding this new form of communication should get off my lawn.
Actually, to be fair to Pantaleo, I believe he is referencing the Kermit the Frog drinking tea meme which has non-offensive connotations - it’s like putting something out there and then stepping back by saying “but that’s none of my business”. It’s totally different than the Nazi frog meme you guys are referencing.
If that's true, I retract my comment.
I agree.
Not only did we see this with Shak last year but I’ve been around it too. In Shaks case, he was allowed to wrestle with the braids in the previous match, and then the refer indicated his braids were un-natural and needed the cover or forfeit the match. The second ref was actually correct as opposed the the first one that allowed him to wrestle.
I agree with Jefe in that the issue must have been addressed in the weigh-ins.....and I will add whether the ref was there or not. Complicating the issue is the often used satellite weigh ins that often require an honor system of sorts when no ref is able to be there.
Tackling this matside is a completely avoidable mess and I’ve seen nails cut, mouthpieces disallowed and wrestlers borrowing friends, kids shaved at the mat....all because of lack of enforcement at weigh in.
This would include seeing the hair cover and detemining if this cover is regulation to cover the dreds.
I don’t know what happened either. What we don’t need is non wrestling people passing judgement on rules that actually work and are written to avoid this.
Exactly .... if anyone is to blame it’s the kids coach for not knowing the rules.
this issue was on Good Morning America today. sad!
I have been in weigh ins many time were kids needed their hair cut. In my experience it was because their bangs were long and hung down past their eyes.
You know this is going to be an issue at some point, and I always communicated with the parents and the wrestler that it would become an issue down the road. Then the kid pushes the envelope and sure enough you get that ref that enjoys being that guy and out come the scissors. Moms got pissy in some instances but the dads always laughed in my experiences. Then the next day the kid had a nice haircut and we moved on.
It was never a race thing it was a stupid kid thing, in my experience.
This refs past did his present no favors and maybe ignorance about race was his motivation, but how do i know. He says it wasnt. Until I see where he confirms it was or there is other evidence that suggests that, I will I guess just let the outrage mob run its course.
Its just tiresome that in so many aspects of life anymore, people wont let things play out before getting offended and seeking a pound of flesh in return.
I have been in weigh ins many time were kids needed their hair cut. In my experience it was because their bangs were long and hung down past their eyes.
You know this is going to be an issue at some point, and I always communicated with the parents and the wrestler that it would become an issue down the road. Then the kid pushes the envelope and sure enough you get that ref that enjoys being that guy and out come the scissors. Moms got pissy in some instances but the dads always laughed in my experiences. Then the next day the kid had a nice haircut and we moved on.
It was never a race thing it was a stupid kid thing, in my experience.
This refs past did his present no favors and maybe ignorance about race was his motivation, but how do i know. He says it wasnt. Until I see where he confirms it was or there is other evidence that suggests that, I will I guess just let the outrage mob run its course.
Its just tiresome that in so many aspects of life anymore, people wont let things play out before getting offended and seeking a pound of flesh in return.
For some people showing the world that they are not racist or that they are victims of racism gives meaning to their life. They join together in these instances to feel important or get attention. IMHO
They think and see things so differently than I do, that it is difficult to converse with them. I read where the kid was emasculated. Seriously? Are we that soft now that a hair cut is a devastating event? Again, a bit old school here, but it seems like a lot of something over nothing.
On the other hand, congrats to the kid for getting the hair cut so he could wrestle and help his team. Also, nice way to win in OT.
They think and see things so differently than I do, that it is difficult to converse with them. I read where the kid was emasculated. Seriously? Are we that soft now that a hair cut is a devastating event? Again, a bit old school here, but it seems like a lot of something over nothing.
On the other hand, congrats to the kid for getting the hair cut so he could wrestle and help his team. Also, nice way to win in OT.
