Have any of you seen Zollers play? Would enjoy your feedback as to what you've seen. I know Spring-Ford is a huge high school, and plays big school competition. Thank you.
We have a lot of SE PA Penn State people on this board...
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On3 has him at #3 qb. I think his first camp on the circuit was last summer. Georgia is probably kicking itself for focusing on Ju Ju Lewis and not jumping on Zoller earlier. They are now very focused on him, and he’s their #1 qb recruit, but hopefully it’s too late. He’s put up some big numbers against many large Philly suburban schools. Strong arm, athletic, good hoops player as well.
I live on the southern end of the region where Spring-Ford is- about an hour away. Their league- the Pioneer- has two divisions like the Ches-Mont with larger and smaller schools separated by size.
They are in the big side as a 6A school with Boyertown, Methacton, Norristown, Owen J Roberts and Perkiomen Valley. So you are correct re "big school competition" but not necessarily 'big time' in terms of dynasty PIAA football or fertile D1 recruiting.
My cousins went to Owen J with Rudy Glocker who ended up at PSU as a TE- but was more famous for being smart and carrying The Wall Street Journal around campus.
There was a good running back from up that way maybe 7 or 8 years ago who ended up a one of the directional Michigans. I know that a starting U of Delaware qb from around the Flacco era was from Spring- Ford.
If things appear to be heading in our favor I might pop up there to see them play. My cousin and her family are still very involved with OJR sports and band.
I'm wondering how his family will view the development (or lack thereof) of Allar- who from what I understand came from a similar background. A new OC is a selling point, but also a cautionary tale.
We shall see. Wish the kid luck-
They are in the big side as a 6A school with Boyertown, Methacton, Norristown, Owen J Roberts and Perkiomen Valley. So you are correct re "big school competition" but not necessarily 'big time' in terms of dynasty PIAA football or fertile D1 recruiting.
My cousins went to Owen J with Rudy Glocker who ended up at PSU as a TE- but was more famous for being smart and carrying The Wall Street Journal around campus.
There was a good running back from up that way maybe 7 or 8 years ago who ended up a one of the directional Michigans. I know that a starting U of Delaware qb from around the Flacco era was from Spring- Ford.
If things appear to be heading in our favor I might pop up there to see them play. My cousin and her family are still very involved with OJR sports and band.
I'm wondering how his family will view the development (or lack thereof) of Allar- who from what I understand came from a similar background. A new OC is a selling point, but also a cautionary tale.
We shall see. Wish the kid luck-
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How would you know if a player developed or not in one year?
Spring Ford played North penn and CB south in the playoffs.
I wouldn't. But I may look at a guy like Caleb Williams or Justin Fields - both of whom considered PSU and both of whom went elsewhere and did rather well for themselves- very quickly.
Drew came to PSU highly touted- yet has a ways to go to be considered in the same discussion, much less class as those guys.
We didn't get a sniff from Dan Lonergan's kid who was a top recruit out of Georgia and went to Bama- so even with an Alum dad who played qb at State we didn't come close to signing him.
Even Kenny Pickett became a first round pick....so we have our work cut out for us for a guy who is being pursued by programs that go all in. Caleb Williams w $10MM in NIL earnings at USC makes any regional bias towards "Dear Old State" seem insignificant. Many factors...but mostly these guys want to get to the NFL.
As for the conference and the playoffs- yeah- the competition is strong in the greater region. I just am not that familiar with players from that league who have excelled at the next level. Maybe there are some...or maybe Zollers starts a trend.
I probably will check him out so that I can say I saw him before he exploded- hopefully at PSU.
If Georgia is in hot pursuit, end of story. They get who they want more often than not. PSU will not be able to keep up with the truly elite football factories that are completely committed to maintain their king of the hill status. I hope we have some good plan B targets and stay after them.
Joe probably would have moved zoellers or lonergan jr to lb. Lenergan was going south to play football and baseball.
Correct. But which 5 Star qb have we developed to their star potential? The ghost of Christian Hackenberg will and has haunted James. Yeah- it was 4 or 5 OCs ago- and an odd time for our program- but our body of work for that level recruit at that position is currently in progress.
Drew and Fields were similar after year one. How did Fields do in year 2 @ OSU vs Drew last year? We as a program need Allar to play at his potential this year to have a realistic chance to be in the Top 5 discussions for elite recruit qbs. Another "Sackenberg" will doom us- and as the other poster said- we most likely don't beat out UGa anyway (but I hope we do).
NIL for Zollers will allow family to travel and easily pay whatever outrageous costs may be involved with getting to Athens or LA or wherever for every game. Taking unpaid vacation days becomes an option too. Packing up the SUV in Royersford and driving up 322 used to be a major selling point...now things are different.
A 2nd PSU legacy qb who didn't even look our way to my knowledge was Kirk Bowman's son Alan, who seemed to play college ball for 10 years. He went Texas Tech to Michigan to Oklahoma State and was serviceable with moments of greatness. My kids grew up loving PSU as I imagine both Lonergan and Bowman did...it is in our blood. But neither went to State- so I get that it isn't guaranteed. Rooting for PSU and putting your career in their hands are 2 different things.
Trace and Clifford made the League but weren't/ aren't stars. Tommy Stevens left and had a run in the NFL equivalent of the infamous "Lion". Will Levis left and starts.
So a low rated recruit from Connecticut, our Fields consolation prize replacement, whom we developed until he bolted for playing time beyond being a battering ram, is the most significant NFL qb out of James' tenure?
So yeah- Drew's play this Fall matters if I'm Mr. Zollers. We have rbs and tight ends- but our Line and WR room have underdelivered. That isn't Allar's fault- but he hasn't stepped up yet either. Those 2 groups help young qbs thrive- and happen to be our weaknesses.
A lot rides on this season. I couldn't get any of my Alum buddies to go in on Season Tix. They don't believe in James as a Game Day Coach and have endured many spoiled trips for "big game" no shows. We are finalizing an r.v. trip for the UCLA game- which should be winnable and hopefully The White Out. We didn't consider Ohio State again.
If PSU Alum fans are skeptical, how would you feel if you were the parent of a 5 Star qb?
The Magic 8 ball is likely not favorable....
80% of 5* qbs transfer. Why is that? Are they not reaching their potential? Did you properly evaluate them from the start?
What was your potential?
You could not get any of your buddy's to buy tickets? Whatever. The stadium is filled. More filled than when you went to school. You also expect to e team to go 12-0 every season so things can't be too bad.
All of Franklin's starting qbs from 2014 through 2022 have played in the NFL, even if they have been backups, and two actually were drafted, and that doesn't even count Levis who also was drafted; that's pretty good. If Allar progresses, he'll be drafted too.
It's not as if UGA has produced a bunch of star NFL qbs since Stafford. In fact, I can't think of one. I mean, Stetson Bennett won two National Championships for UGA, and do you really think that he's going to be a NFL star? I also don't expect NFL stardom for Carson Beck. These recent UGA qbs have been surrounded by unbelievably talented skill players and o-linemen; just look at the recent drafts.
My point is that Franklin's development of qbs, especially with McSorley and Clifford, hasn't been that bad. However, he has to step up and make sure that Allar realizes his full potential.
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Hackenberg was OVERRATED. The reality is you ignored his flaws because of the sanctions. He was NEVER close to a Heisman candidate on his best day. No mobility, no pocket awareness, and not accurate.
If he transferred he never would have played and would not have been drafted.
PS. Who was coaching this game? Not franklin
How many Georgia QBs really reached their potential?
Bryce Ramsey 97 rating. Hardly played.
Jacob Park. 96 rating. Transferred to Iowa State.
Jacob Eason 99 rating. Transferred to Washington.
Jake fromm 96 rating. 3 yr starter. 24 TDs and 5 Ints in year three vs 25 TDs 2 int for allar.
Justin Fields 100 rating. Transferred to reach his potential.
Dwam Mathis 86 rating. Transferred to TEmple and switched to WR. You impressed yet?
Carson Beck 92 rating. 1st year starter as RS Jr. 24 Tds 6 ints. One more year.
JT Daniels 99 rating. Transferred from USC to Georgia to WVU to Rice. They all ruined him.
Brock Vandergriff 97 rating. Backup
Gunner Stockton. 94 rating. Bench.
Ryan PUglisi 94 rating. Bench
Stetson Bennet was a walk on and jumped ahead of the blue chips.
I do not expect 12-0 every year- nor do my friends. We were in school from 83-87 and had a 6-5 year in that time without a bowl. The Joe Pa compete for a championship every 4 years is what we knew and what we hope for. That simply hasn't happened. Why or why not can be debated- but James' record in Big Games is what it is and my friends are tired of getting excited to watch us go "thud." Being in the overnight rv lot after losing yet another opportunity to rise up is depressing- not to mention expensive.
I did love that their version of Matt McGloin was their starter. It just seems anymore with the top 4 that any decent game manager can play relatively mistake free and the team will win....witness Ohio State last year and Matt Jones w Bama. There is a changing of the guard and maybe the wealth will be spread a bit wider.
For many years under James it was that we needed some 5 stars to become "Elite." Then we get highly rated/5 star WRs who don't cut it- Shorter being a big one- leading to a dearth of prospects and a revolving door of coaches. OSU is the opposite. Now we take THEIR used up former 5 star to be our starter while they re-load with younger talent who wouldn't wait anymore. Hope Julian plays well for us- but there is little doubt his snap count here will be higher than if he had stayed.
Having that true 5 star qb has often been cited as our missing ingredient. I never said Hack was great- I was at the Temple debacle- a low point of low points. But the perception is that he could've been better- under the right coach (Bill O NOT James/Donovan). He regressed and then flamed out in NFL. That isn't all on James- but the perception doesn't help our cause.
Trevor Lawrence and DeShaun Watson MADE Clemson great- along with some stout D line guys and playmakers on both sides of the ball. Without them- Clemson is pedestrian- or frankly a lot like what we've been. Great brand. Sell a lot of tickets. Strong heritage. But without that superstar qb: they beat who they should, lose to their stronger opponents. And lose to Duke...in a f-ugly game.
So- in the end we generally agree- but also disagree. Which is fine. Do we want the 5 star Zollers or not? I'd hope we do. Will they pick us?
If the priority is a winning team in the hunt for natty's every year over the next 6 then UGA gets him.
If it is NIL it's likely someone other than us overpays at a level we won't meet.
Unfortunately weather and Southern accents aren't our thing either. We'll leave free drinks at strip clubs and monster suv's off the table.
If the idea of taking PSU back to former glories and going to college where lots of kids you know are attending/ and joining the largest fraternity of Alums in the Commonwealth- than we win.
Do we need a 5 star or at least higher performing qb to fill our gaps to finally become "Elite?"? Most pundits seem to think so. But then as you showed many 5 stars crap out. Except when they don't. Would we have been better with Simms, Henne, Smoker and Kendra? Maybe the Dark Years wouldn't have been as bad.
Hope Allar plays like Ewers did last year after a season of getting his feet under him along with some humbling losses (and without the injury.)
THAT in my opinion will be our #1 recruiting tool for Zollers. Plus a White Out butt kicking over UCLA.
If you don't expect 12-0 then why would you complain about 10 or 11 wins? Clearly you do expect 12-0. Ironic since joes career average was only 9-3.
OSU is not the opposite. They have 5* busts too. Flemmings numbers in year 1-2 were not much better than shorter's. I think another 5* wr transferred to Nebraska. Their ol, dl and db all underperformed the last few years.
Clemson went through a few hunter johnsons to find Trevor lawrence..
I'll chime in. By my math, Bowden averaged 8.5 wins over his career. Richt at UGA I believe in his time there averaged 9.6 wins.
So, using your typical Joepa example, (which has no bearing), UGA clearly wanted more despite Richt being very good and provided stability. But, he couldn't get them over the hump. Sounds familiar.
As for FSU fans, who cares what the averages show for Bowden...when u coach forever, odds are, your numbers will even out. He also had that ridiculous stretch where from 1987 to 2000, the Seminoles finished every season with at least 10 wins and in the top 5. So, by your logic of using the past to set expectations, shouldn't FSU fans hold Norvell to that?
PK wasted no time in pink-slipping Rob Cooper -- yet another PSU baseball HC who couldn't get them to the tournament -- a feat that hasn't happened in more than two decades. I'm sure glad PK's expectations for baseball weren't "well, we've always blown, so might as well save money, keep Coop, and be happy." I expect Kraft to do the same with Kieger and WBB if she can't get this program to the tournament on a fairly regularly basis, and so forth with other sports. He in essence indicated when he first got the job, that at PSU all our programs should be competing for and winning championships.
Your look back to the old days as to how the fanbase should set our expectations is something.
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Are you saying Joe should have been fired his first 15 years with no championships? How is that for a Richt comparison?
Nebraska fired Bo Pelini who won 9-10 game a year every year. They went from a 9.5 win team to a 4-5 win team. There is much more downside for a 10 win team than upside.
Like I have asked before, if you want to fire someone then name a better replacement who meets your unrealistic criteria. Name a coach with a winning record vs OSU, UM or the top 10 who wants the PSU job. We can rule out Rhule , Golden and Schiano who have ZERO combined wins vs the top10 for their careers. Luke Fickel was the hot name a year ago. He is not looking too good now.
Georgia did not win last year despite having three times the recruiting budget. State of Georgia currently has 41 4*/5* players in the 2025 On3 Industry rankings compared to Pennsylvania with 8 players ranked 4*/5*. Penn state is not Georgia. PSU is not going to be Georgia.
Also, UGA obviously is in one of their good periods like they were under Vince Dooley from 1976 through at least 1982. However, that great era under Dooley eventually diminished, like what happened to USC after Carroll left, Bama after Bryant left, Michigan after Carr left, etc. It happens to every program, and it will happen to this great era in UGA football too. In fact, between the Dooley and Smart eras, UGA had a lot of mediocre seasons at best. Remember, It was as recently as the 2015 season when PSU actually played a 9-3 UGA in the TaxSlayer Bowl right before they began their rise.
The difference is that the demographics of this country for many reasons have shifted so much to the Southeast so that whatever down period that UGA or Bama or LSU experiences shouldn't be long, whereas that might not be the case for almost every school in the Northeast. That's why a school like PSU should think long and hard about replacing a coach who consistently wins 10 to 11 games a year.
I never said fire...my post didn't mention that anywhere. Oh, and UGA didn't win last year....neither did Bama. The juggernauts don't win every year...it doesn't always go chalk. Your argument of "name someone better" is a ridiculous mindset that where we are is the best we can do. UGA literally did the opposite getting rid of the stable and very good Richt.
I don't know if you purposely are obtuse on here, or if it just happens. But, you SHOULD know well enough that the top dogs in any sport don't always win...do UNC, Duke, KU do so in basketball? Of course not. So once again your UGA example is insane...I'd say they made the right move despite not winning it all last year! LOL.
Again, using YOUR example to the initial poster...b/c Joe had a certain wins per season average, why should we expect different or hold JF to loftier standards? LOL, do I have that right? Man, I'm glad you don't run the athletic dept.
UGA began their rise when they dismissed Richt after that GT game in 2015, b/c his results weren't good enough. They were the favorites to win the East division in 2015, and then went 9-3. UGA's rise didn't just happen naturally b/c of demographics and climate. They were tired of being 'almost, but not quite.'
Agreed. Georgia currently has 41 4*/5*s ranked On3 industry rankings for 2025. PSU has 8. Georgia also has three times the recruiting budget.
The difference is Georgia was FAVORED to win. They had as much, probably more talent then the competition. Georgia was finishing 2nd or 3rd the last three years with Richt in a state with more talent.
Georgia currently has 41 4/5* recruits in the On3 industry rankings for the class of 2025. Alabama has 16. Ohio 13. Pennsylvania has 8.
For the 2024 class they ranked Georgia #1. Bama #2. Ohio State #3.
You said, "Georgia were the favorites to win the East division in 2015."
Georgia was tired of losing but they are in a state with MORE talent. PSU is in a state with LESS talent. Georgia was the favorite because they had more talent. When is the last time PSU had more talent than OSU? You were really out of touch if you thought PSU had more talent than OSU last year.
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Voltz...my goodness here we go again...do you only visualize a sports matchup through the view that 'there is no way, no how a team with perceived lesser talent should ever win?' I mean, really, do you?
Sports, so much of the time, goes the other way.
And, again, since you seemingly have a very hard time to see the minutiae and in the weeds...much of the recruiting rankings are so flimsy and inflated...not to mention, team rankings usually are inflated by one or two positions.
OSU annually is like WR University...they are easily the best at recruiting the position chock full of 5 stars... But, what usually separates those top-recruiting teams from the next group is coaching. You seem to think all the abundance of talent swings the balance and the coach could be some wall street guy.
I'm just having a hard time understanding how you seem to believe that no way should JF or anyone playing a team with PERCEIVED more talent should ever be expected to win. What a terrible mindset. How has Michigan beaten up on OSU and PSU the last several years? (and plz don't give me the cheating bit). Go look at their recruiting rankings compared to ours...over the last several years, we have had some better recruiting seasons. How did JF lose to Minnesota or UK and Ole Miss in bowl games when we out recruit them. How does Auburn beat Bama or Utah beat USC? Or go through EVERY SINGLE WEEK IN CFB, and you'll see upsets.
But, you see everything in black and white, when sports couldn't be further from that.
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The less talented team can win but don't pretend they are the favorite. Did you expect toledo to beat psu in 2001? How did that happen? How did iowa win every year?
You even contradict yourself. You act like psu should never ever lose to a lower ranked team yet you think psu should consistently beat higher ranked teams.
Bowls pretty much are meaningless these days. The best players opt out, coaches leave and the stands are empty.
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Huh? Me contradict? U just used my example of lesser teams rising up to beat more talented teams to your benefit. That is literally my point previously to dispel your notion that PSU should never beat OSU because they outrecruit us. You are exhausting and can't even be consistent with your opinons. I appreciate the conversation as that is what a message board is for. But, I can't just can't converse with u anymore. You play both sides and take other people's points without realizing it. Time to mute you since the merry-go-round of nonsense is exhausting
Don't know about that. Do know that Allars two worst games were against OSU and UM which has been that way for years! Our OL can not block them. First down on the 7 YL a few years back at the Shoe. A TD would have put the game away. Three running plays later we were 4th down and the 7 YL; didn't gain an inch. Kicked the FG and then lost the game.
Read their message board. They have threads on LJ. They want him to retire.
Is it surprising allars two worst games were against the two best teams we played?
The issue here is Franklin has a very difficult time winning what I would call the "big game". I don't expect him to always upset a higher ranked team or a team with more talent but he essentially never does it hence our horrible record vs OSU. The team and Franklin just seem off in these big games vs OSU and has a knack of clutching defeat from the jaws of victory...see 2017, 2018 even 2022 and 2023. Not saying those 4 games should have all been W's but my God to lose all 4?! And it is not just OSU. Michigan as of late is another one.
Michigan has passed us maybe they come back to us but Harbaugh showed what a great coach can do (no not cheating). There are other examples like Minny in 2019 when he had a chance to make a statement on the road vs a good team. The USC debacle in the Rose Bowl. To be fair he has won a few, OSU in '16, Wisky in '16, UDub in 2017. The UDub one was anticlimactic though because we underperformed that year by not making the playoff.
I don't know if replacing Franklin would payoff or not. He shouldn't be fired now but if I was Kraft I would put some aggressive metrics out there for him to hit. Starting with a national championship before his contract expires. That gives him what 7 years to get that done. If he doesn't reach the pinnacle should he be canned? No, but he needs to consistently get us in the playoff and even at that I would say 2 of 4 years into the quarters and 1 of 4 into the semis or better. Just spit balling but these seem fair given all the resources at James's disposal.
We had the best RB in college football who could not gain an inch from the 7 YL on 3 running plays. No one was complaining about LJ then; only when UM beat them 3 in a row did they complain.
Very well said and thought out..I have Voltz on ignore because I couldn't take him anymore.
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There are a lot of people who seem satisfied with never realistically challenging for a title. I don't get it. We absolutely can win a title. But not just that, the fact we have not made the playoff yet is really absurd when you think about it. A number of missed opportunities with the underpinning being coming up small in big games.
Moving forward we really need Allar to come into his own and play/lead like an elite 5 star guy should. With Kotelnicki now mentoring him hopefully we see this become a reality and it results in some big wins (and season) for us. If the offense and specifically the passing game is still stuck in neutral then that is a major issue and you can't run from the fact that Franklin needs to take full accountability and be held fully accountable.
Agree 1000%. I just don't get the apathy and satisfaction that some have. We aren't some second-rate, wannabe program. Our resources are immense. Sure, maybe not Bama, UGA, etc., but give me a break...ours are good enough to make a freaking playoff. Literally 4-5 plays in many of our 'big game losses' are the difference. And, no matter how some fanboys want to quantify those reasons we aren't making the game changing plays b/c of lack of nice dorms or digital drones in the facilities, etc., it is a ridiculous loser mindset. JF et al just have been terrible in games vs playoff-caliber teams.
With that being said...agreed. Allar has to step up, be a leader with his play on the field. He has to deliver some big throws, and make some big runs for that matter. He is the face of the offense, and has to make winning plays. But, that goes for Singleton and a bunch of the returnees who were underwhelming last year.
I'm excited for AK and the schemes he will add to the offense. I think he had to be ultra creative at KU to find mismatches in space -- that can only help us for sure.
Agree 1000% but what has to finally happen in this century is our OL has to block better for Allar to have time to find open WR's, if their are any. 2023 against OSU, he was 18 of 42 and took 4 sacks. Our total yards rushing with Allar's losses was 49 yards.
No Buckeyes fans were complaining about LJ after that game, in fact, they were probably elated with the DL. We can not let OSU's front four and LB's to continue to dominate us. Their WR's are of higher caliber no doubt, but there is no reason for this OL to constantly be breaking down against them.
UM found a way to beat OSU 3 in a row and that was to have their OL dominate their DL in the run game, and it worked to perfection.
No Buckeyes fans were complaining about LJ after that game, in fact, they were probably elated with the DL. We can not let OSU's front four and LB's to continue to dominate us. Their WR's are of higher caliber no doubt, but there is no reason for this OL to constantly be breaking down against them.
UM found a way to beat OSU 3 in a row and that was to have their OL dominate their DL in the run game, and it worked to perfection.
No question...great point. Typically begins and ends with the OL. Ours has not been physical nor imposing enough in critical moments in big games. The OSU performance was terrible.
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