OT: USA COVID-19 Vaccination Updates

[Ski]

As a scientist who works with government scientists (although not in CDC) I strongly disagree with this statement.

As a shmuck that read Fauci's e-mails and heard his statements, and also saw Walensky's testimony; and with the changing guidance/narrative coming from the agencies of these experts, along with the results of where we are today; I will agree to disagree.

 

[PSUEngineer89]

As a scientist who works with government scientists (although not in CDC) I strongly disagree with this statement.

Then explain the following:

How did we get to wear non-N95 masks for almost two years, before now conceding that masks do not help, except for N95? I recall mocking idiots who thought the regular masks worked to protect others with "wear your well fitted N95 mask - it protects YOU" over a year ago. I do agree - YOU did not favor masking. But YOU didn't set the policy.

How did we get vaccine mandates (don't discredit yourself by saying it wasn't a mandate) when it was clear many months ago that the vaccines were only going to change the date at which any given individual contracted Covid?

How do you explain a CDC vaccine effectiveness against infection greater than 70% when all but three Penguin players have been infected since being doubly vaxxed?

How did we go from "get the vaccine and this is over for you" to "we might need a FOURTH booster"?

 

[roswelllion]

Who are taking up the majority of beds right now even though more are vaccinated?

The medical community is offering a different opinion than your own. They aren't waffling but then you want to blame them when people don’t follow their advice and fill up the beds or tell people not to come in because they have no where to put them. They aren't echoing what you stated about a 40 year old cutoff, but somehow someway you feel like you know better. I'm curious as to how or why you feel this magic cutoff of 40 or young adults exist, but the vast majority of MD's aren't echoing what you are saying? What is it that makes you feel this way? There has to be some real information out there you are getting that these Doctors are not.

Thanks for a reasonable question. So here are a few numbers for how i arrived at my numbers.
Source CDC.gov
. largest group of infected by age 18-29 so it becomes the control group
. likelihood of death by age group compared to the control group
1-17 less than 1
30-39 4 times
40-49 10 times
50-64 25 times
64- 75 65 times
75-84 150 times
85+ 370 times
Clearly the gap really jumps at 40+ and each 10 year age group increases exponentially

Source Statisca
Based on 814,000 deaths
Deaths by age group
1-17 678. [.0008% of total]
18-29. 4956. .[006% of total]. [remember from above this is the LARGEST group with infections]
30-39 14614 [.017% of total]
40+ 793,752 [97.5% of total]

Remember I said young and HEALTHY. I have no way of knowing how many of the 20,000 under 40 would have been considered unhealthy in some way but my guess is more than 1/2. Regardless even if all were healthy and we know that's not true I stand by my comment of "not so sure"

Perhaps a better question would be if vaccines are primarily to prevent serious illness and death,
the question should be not why would someone challenge my "under 40 not so sure" with the question about the conventional logic of all kids 5 and up should definitely be vaccinated. Is it still to protect Grandma? If so that is wrong IMO on two fronts -
1. it won't do much to stop the spread to Grandma
2. if Grandma is vaccinated and boosted [also part of my post] she should be protected regardless.

I really would like a logical explanation.

 

[roswelllion]

Monoclonal antibodies were recommended when they were available and appropriate. You don't think big pharma would have manufactured millions of doses had they had capability, after all, aren't they a huge money-making opportunity.

Well if the government had agreed to purchase xxx million doses like they did with vaccines I suspect they would have. If they were so available why did the administration start rationing in the fall. Occam's razor tells me they felt if people thought they could get treatment after infection fewer would have been vaxxed. IMO they put getting vaxxed above treatment.

 

[LaJollaLion]

Thanks for a reasonable question. So here are a few numbers for how i arrived at my numbers.
Source CDC.gov
. largest group of infected by age 18-29 so it becomes the control group
. likelihood of death by age group compared to the control group
1-17 less than 1
30-39 4 times
40-49 10 times
50-64 25 times
64- 75 65 times
75-84 150 times
85+ 370 times
Clearly the gap really jumps at 40+ and each 10 year age group increases exponentially

Source Statisca
Based on 814,000 deaths
Deaths by age group
1-17 678. [.0008% of total]
18-29. 4956. .[006% of total]. [remember from above this is the LARGEST group with infections]
30-39 14614 [.017% of total]
40+ 793,752 [97.5% of total]

Remember I said young and HEALTHY. I have no way of knowing how many of the 20,000 under 40 would have been considered unhealthy in some way but my guess is more than 1/2. Regardless even if all were healthy and we know that's not true I stand by my comment of "not so sure"

Perhaps a better question would be if vaccines are primarily to prevent serious illness and death,
not why would someone challenge my "under 40 not so sure" with the conventional logic of all kids 5 and up should definitely be vaccinated. Is it still to protect Grandma? If sothat is wrong IMO on two fronts -
1. it won't do much to stop the spread to Grandma
2. if Grandma is vaccinated and boosted [also part of my post] she should be protected regardless.

I really would like a logical explanation.

How come the medical community isn't qualifying it, but you are? They aren't saying healthy or not either, you are. The are recommending it for everyone (adults)....and even 5 and up, but I'm not going there. People can do what they feel is best there and I get it.

Up until Omicron it was also slowing the spread or are you not aware of that? In both the alpha and delta you were less likely to spread it, but that didn't matter to anyone who was anti vax, it wasn't 100%. 20 times less likely to end up in the hospital with it, but here we are arguing about this when you posed the question is why is the hospital waiting to treat people for something they told them to already treat. You want to have it both ways.

Here is the AMA's take and we know not every nurse, Doc, or hospital worker is totally fit. The CDC, WHO and other various medical groups are all pretty consistent, but what do they know.

Vaccination is our best chance to end the pandemic

Universal vaccination of health workers is fully aligned with our obligation to place the health and safety of our patients above all other considerations.

www.ama-assn.org

 

[SLUPSU]

How many of 2021's deaths were from Omicron? Answer less than 10. If we are awash in MCA why did the administration start rationing them in the fall? You can't blame the year 2 failure on Omicron. Why wasn't something like Omicron anticipated? Why are we so short of N95's and test kits. It's not like EVERY freaking virus known to man doesn't mutate. While you are defending our one trick pony approach what is your explanation for ignoring natural immunity? It seemed to be the way out of every virus for the first 2900 of the last 3000 years?

1) I disagree with tgar, we were not awash in MAB's.
2) There was "rationing" by the administration because supplies were very limited and they didn't want some states to hoard the supplies.
3) How do you anticipate a specific variant, what exactly do you expect, have a vaccine/therapeutic sitting on the shelf ready to go?
4) Why are we short on N95's? Are we really short or are you exaggerating? If you find some hard data on current N95 supplies (& KN95) then we can discuss further.
5) Why are we short on test kits? Until omicron hardly anyone gave a crap about testing. Everybody is just reacting to the situation, please show me one respected source from your side of the debate that suggested that we needed to be proactive with mask or test kit production prior to omicron.
6) Your thinking about natural immunity is wrong-headed, getting covid is not a goal or the "way out."

 

[roswelllion]

I love how they bitch and moan about the limited supplies and insufficient use of MAB's, used via EUA and with potential side effects while bitching and moaning about vaccines used via EUA and with potential side effects.

hmmm How many pages back did someone complain about EUA about vaccines? I haven't seen that for months. I suspect that person likely would have the same beef. That is a very small group. My beef is the administration has focused on only two things. Masks now they are switching to N95 after having folks wear the wrong masks for 2 years and vaccines. No natural immunity, no build your immune system, now therapeutics, no get healthy and lose weight. All of these in addition to vaccines. This has not and still isn't an all hands on deck approach.

 

[tgar]

I know. i was just shocked how well the Tylenol worked.

Symptoms started on Friday of New Years on December 31. Now on January 11, so 12 days in and still have a runny nose and general dry cough. Nothing of a big deal, just more annoying now for the past week. I think it is starting to break up and by end of the week that it is mostly gone. but assuming it was Covid, going to be 48 hours of not feeling very good followed by a week of minor symptoms.

Yeah, my assumption is I have been exposed numerous times ( especially going to an indoor concert last month in a great hall in Portland Oregon ) and either had mild symptoms or was asymptomatic. Same is possible for Delta back in September. Feels good to know the vaxx therapy works. Glad to hear you are not feeling too bad. I have three friends at least that lost smell and taste and were miserable for a week as if they had a bad cold, you know the feeling. Avoiding even that was a goal of mine but who knows with this thing.

Back in June of 2020 I had a fever for a week, never too high, and some other symptoms but when I was tested it was negative. I was certainly in way less circulation at the time.

Good to know the vaccine or pick your term, Therapy? Works.

 

[roswelllion]

Who would trust accomplished and respected PhD scientists who have had long and decorated scientific careers? I would.

Just a quick question. Have you read or heard of the Great Barrington Declaration? Were those 3 gentlemen [Oxford, Stanford, Harvard] experts in this field? Can you provide a logical explanation for the Fauci/ Collins emails about discrediting this document before it was released? I am in favor of all scientific debate? It seems only one side has tried to shut the debate down. Please correct me.

 

[tgar]

hmmm How many pages back did someone complain about EUA about vaccines? I haven't seen that for months. I suspect that person likely would have the same beef. That is a very small group. My beef is the administration has focused on only two things. Masks now they are switching to N95 after having folks wear the wrong masks for 2 years and vaccines. No natural immunity, no build your immune system, now therapeutics, no get healthy and lose weight. All of these in addition to vaccines. This has not and still isn't an all hands on deck approach.

Ummmm, regarding immunity, if you are vaxxed and are getting exposed and your system is fighting it off I assume you are developing immunity to a certain extent. You are giving your system a stress test every time out in public, especially without a mask. Get out and mingle and quit whining.

 

[WPTLION]

Yeah, my assumption is I have been exposed numerous times ( especially going to an indoor concert last month in a great hall in Portland Oregon ) and either had mild symptoms or was asymptomatic. Same is possible for Delta back in September. Feels good to know the vaxx therapy works. Glad to hear you are not feeling too bad. I have three friends at least that lost smell and taste and were miserable for a week as if they had a bad cold, you know the feeling. Avoiding even that was a goal of mine but who knows with this thing.

Back in June of 2020 I had a fever for a week, never too high, and some other symptoms but when I was tested it was negative. I was certainly in way less circulation at the time.

Good to know the vaccine or pick your term, Therapy? Works.

or like most people thats all you would have gotten any way. See that's the issue, they've lied to you so many times that you "think" everyone dies from. Meanwhile most people had mild or never even knew they had it before vaccines. That really is the problem with the shot, most people don't get very sick(notice I didn't say all). If you actually don't believe that then you are the problem.

 

[roswelllion]

Please explain the medical reasoning for what you state above.

Yes, mRNA and traditional flu vaccines work differently. But they both accomplish the same thing (enhanced immune response).

There is no medical reason (that I am aware of) to suspect that mRNA boosters wouldn't be perfectly fine.

But even if you have some weird fear of science and need decades of field data before accepting a treatment, you can get J&J. Exactly the same tech as traditional vaccines.

Have you noticed a decided push against J&J by the mainstream scientists [CDC etc]. All i can find is the TTS data from April which showed 9 deaths [8 women] out of 17 million jabs. Is that a reason to recommend against. i suspect there is a certain group pushing mRNA because they want that to be the way of the future. [which might be okay but the rational is flawed]

 

[heckmans]

You don’t want to argue but then state are you really this dumb after you used a bogus example for you fake outrage. Then you even totally failed and misrepresented what I said. The NYT is the press and they can be held accountable for blatantly lying. Twitter isn’t the press. You somehow equate them to being equal as maybe you get your info there.

People are opting out of jobs and the military too. Nobody is physically forcing people to get the shot. They have a choice and every choice you make has a consequence. Vaccines for schools and the military are not new. I got jabbed for an hour when I was in boot camp. To the point you didn’t even know what vaccine you were getting. Any military member that has been through it knows this to be true. We also cannot say no when we are given a lawful order in the military. This is going back more than 2 centuries. We weren’t asked our opinion on the shots or what we wore. Argue with your Doctors about the vaccine, not me. I was simply stating twitter and the NYT are not the same. You disagree, fine.

The mental gymnastics continue. I wish you the best.

 

[SLUPSU]

Well if the government had agreed to purchase xxx million doses like they did with vaccines I suspect they would have. If they were so available why did the administration start rationing in the fall. Occam's razor tells me they felt if people thought they could get treatment after infection fewer would have been vaxxed. IMO they put getting vaxxed above treatment.

If everything was so easy why didn't OWS figure that all out? After all, MAB's were available before the vaccines. You act like Pharma can crap out these treatments on demand. Do you know how much time it takes to increase the production of MAB? Do you know how much time it takes to build new facilities? How much time is involved for clinical trials for every different MAB treatment? Can production be changed on a dime with every different variant and prevent potentially wasting millions of doses?

If you figure out the answers to these questions, I certainly don't have the answers, then you can meaningfully bitch all you want. But for now, it's time for you to get back into the real world.

Here's a Duke paper from 2020 addressing some of these issues.

https://healthpolicy.duke.edu/sites/default/files/2020-06/Issue%20Brief%20-%20COVID-19%20Manufacturing%20of%20Monoclonal%20Antibodies.pdf

 

[tgar]

or like most people thats all you would have gotten any way. See that's the issue, they've lied to you so many times that you "think" everyone dies from. Meanwhile most people had mild or never even knew they had it before vaccines. That really is the problem with the shot, most people don't get very sick(notice I didn't say all). If you actually don't believe that then you are the problem.

I have no idea what you are trying to say. None. It does sound like though they should have consulted you for guidance on how to properly run their response to each and every situation that arose. You really seem to be on top of it. LOL. Dunce.

 

[WPTLION]

I have no idea what you are trying to say. None. It does sound like though they should have consulted you for guidance on how to properly run their response to each and every situation that arose. You really seem to be on top of it. LOL. Dunce.

Let me slow it down for you genius. MOST people get a mild cases or are asymptomatic, with or without a vaccine. If you are DUMB enough (which you've proven) to not know this then clearly you should stop typing!

 

[Ski]

Have you noticed a decided push against J&J by the mainstream scientists [CDC etc]. All i can find is the TTS data from April which showed 9 deaths [8 women] out of 17 million jabs. Is that a reason to recommend against. i suspect there is a certain group pushing mRNA because they want that to be the way of the future. [which might be okay but the rational is flawed]

Or they just want funding to research into an area of interest for them. What better way to get it than a crisis? - the old way doesn't work, let's try this, and oh by the way here is how much $ I need.

 

[roswelllion]

How come the medical community isn't qualifying it, but you are? They aren't saying healthy or not either, you are. The are recommending it for everyone (adults)....and even 5 and up, but I'm not going there. People can do what they feel is best there and I get it.

Up until Omicron it was also slowing the spread or are you not aware of that? In both the alpha and delta you were less likely to spread it, but that didn't matter to anyone who was anti vax, it wasn't 100%. 20 times less likely to end up in the hospital with it, but here we are arguing about this when you posed the question is why is the hospital waiting to treat people for something they told them to already treat. You want to have it both ways.

Here is the AMA's take and we know not every nurse, Doc, or hospital worker is totally fit. The CDC, WHO and other various medical groups are all pretty consistent, but what do they know.

Vaccination is our best chance to end the pandemic

Universal vaccination of health workers is fully aligned with our obligation to place the health and safety of our patients above all other considerations.

www.ama-assn.org

I can't tell you why they are saying what they do. You asked and I provided why i said what I said and IMO those numbers speak for themselves. I can only speculate on why they are saying what they are saying [ Big Pharma sees a twice year booster windfall] , scientific community wants a public acceptance of mRNA technology for future use, most PCP's have no idea and are taking the lead from CDC. What doc would risk from an insurance standpoint going against CDC. But that is only speculation. I haven't heard them explain it.
Regarding the rest of your post
WHO are you kidding me? They are corrupt to the core and do China's bidding at every turn. CDC I once thought they were the preeminent infectious disease group in the world. Not so anymore and this started under Trump. CDC Director Walensky couldn't even call out a huge misspeak by a sitting Supreme Court judge over the weekend. She is completely political at this point.
Pre Omicron spread. Yes it spread slower BUT that was in the summer when the spread always slows down AND when the vaccines were in months 0-4. By fall and well before Omicron the spread was accelerating quickly as the vaccines became less effective.
Post Omicron - CDC is still 100% vax vax vax
Finally your inference that anyone who challenges is anti vax is wrong, disgusting, why the narrative is changing quickly AND why so many have you on ignore. I am vaxxed and boosted [because I am in the age group that should be, IMO, and to suggest that someone under 40 and is healthy might consider otherwise is an anti vaxxer is nuts.

 

[roswelllion]

Fauci and the CDC are not the same thing.

Show me where they have disagreed for more than a day or two until they got their stories straight.

 

[NC2017]

Prednisone has a negative impact on Covid. She said the two had deadly consequences. I'm surprised that hasn't got more play.

I'm absolutely sure your Dr told you this, and it adds to the confusion out here, at least for me. I have asthma and I use a Symbicort inhaler. Everything I've read and been told says prednisone (is this the same as Prednisolone?) can be a benefit

Low-Dose Prednisolone Shortened Hospital Stays for Patients With COVID-19

 

[LaJollaLion]

I can't tell you why they are saying what they do. You asked and I provided why i said what I said and IMO those numbers speak for themselves. I can only speculate on why they are saying what they are saying [ Big Pharma sees a twice year booster windfall] , scientific community wants a public acceptance of mRNA technology for future use, most PCP's have no idea and are taking the lead from CDC. What doc would risk from an insurance standpoint going against CDC. But that is only speculation. I haven't heard them explain it.
Regarding the rest of your post
WHO are you kidding me? They are corrupt to the core and do China's bidding at every turn. CDC I once thought they were the preeminent infectious disease group in the world. Not so anymore and this started under Trump. CDC Director Walensky couldn't even call out a huge misspeak by a sitting Supreme Court judge over the weekend. She is completely political at this point.
Pre Omicron spread. Yes it spread slower BUT that was in the summer when the spread always slows down AND when the vaccines were in months 0-4. By fall and well before Omicron the spread was accelerating quickly as the vaccines became less effective.
Post Omicron - CDC is still 100% vax vax vax
Finally your inference that anyone who challenges is anti vax is wrong, disgusting, why the narrative is changing quickly AND why so many have you on ignore. I am vaxxed and boosted [because I am in the age group that should be, IMO, and to suggest that someone under 40 and is healthy might consider otherwise is an anti vaxxer is nuts.

The medical community was saying it because they didn't want to be overrun like they are right now in many hospitals. Many healthcare, travel related jobs, nursing homes, food industry have shortages of essential people right now, but you don't give 2 sh!ts about them.....not your problem. They could see it coming and they predicted it. They warned people that this could and would happen. Could you imagine how bad it could have been minus the vaccine in terms of a lockdown right now? Everyone is corrupt on the planet but those that think exactly like you guys and it's all just some big mass political global conspiracy that was done to get Trump out of office. You want to talk about narratives changing, really?

First it was the the government will use it to track us. Then it was we don't what is in it even though the technology and methods being used aren't new at all. Then it wasn't approved. Then it was made up lies of people dying from the shot. Then it was they aren't 100% effective since you could get it or pass it on, but the Doctors were saying....yeah but the unvaccinated aren't filling up the ICU's. Imagine being so selfish as to not get the shot and then run your arse to the hospital when you do get it when you had ample time and warning to get it,,,,then you died on your family. You posed the questions as to why the hospitals won't treat people for something they offered a way to treat in advance and you didn't get your Tucker talking points. You knew better and got the shot and now have some internal conflict due to your other ideologies....not me. I'm not the one who got the shot and spending my day arguing against it for others pretending I'm standing up for their freedoms. I'm not the one posing questions like what to do for my grandchildren when the simple answer is go to to a pediatrician and get real advice. The simple fact you posed that question kind of scares me. Why are people telling you nightly to question it when they have it and mandate it for their own employees.....sit on that one for a while and get back to me.

 

[Cletus11]

The medical community was saying it because they didn't want to be overrun like they are right now in many hospitals. Many healthcare, travel, nursing homes have shortages of essential people right now, but you don't give 2 sh!ts about them.....not your problem. They could see it coming and they predicted it. They warned people that this could and would happen. Could you imagine how bad it could have been minus the vaccine in terms of a lockdown? Everyone is corrupt but those that think exactly like you guys and it's all just some big mass political global conspiracy that was done to get Trump out of office. You want to talk about narratives changing, really?

First it was the the government will use it to track us. Then it was we don't what is in it even though the technology and methods being used aren't new. Then it wasn't approved. Then it was made up lies of people dying from the shot. Then it was they aren't 100% effective since you could get it or pass it on, but the Doctors were saying....yeah but the unvaccinated aren't filling up the ICU's. Imagine being so selfish as to not get the shot and then run your arse to the hospital when you do get it. You posed the questions as to why the hospitals won't treat people for something they offered a way to treat in advance and you didn't get your Tucker talking points. You knew better and got the shot and now have some internal conflict due to your other ideologies....not me. I'm not the one who got the shot and spending my day arguing against it. I'm not the one posing questions like what to do for my grandchildren when the simple answer is go to to a pediatrician. Why are people telling you nightly to question it when they have it and mandate it for their own employees.....sit on that one for a while and get back to me.

If Tucker Carlson, Joy Reid, and Rachel Maddow got thrown into a steel cage match fight to the death and none of them survived, the world would be a better place.

 

[The Spin Meister]

Ummmm, regarding immunity, if you are vaxxed and are getting exposed and your system is fighting it off I assume you are developing immunity to a certain extent. You are giving your system a stress test every time out in public, especially without a mask. Get out and mingle and quit whining.

Looks like you actually said some intelligent. By design or accident it’s hard to determine. But people do need to be out and about. They need to do it maskless whenever outside or where they can keep a safe distance from other people.

Because no one ever talks about the viral load necessary to get seriously ill from this. Is it ten viruses? Or a thousand? Or several million? They never say but it likely takes a fairly large sample to overcome one’s immune system, unless one has a weakened immune system.

That would explain why some people get really ill while others nothing or little symptoms. Getting a heavy load at initial exposure would overwhelm your system and make you one sick puppy. Getting a small load means your system fights it off and the develops natural immunity

An this why people should not hide at home, or wear double or triple masks when out unless in a high risk group. Take measured precautions so that you actually get occasional small exposures. If everyone did so herd immunity would be attainable in a reasonable time.

Healthier for you, healthier for f@mily, healthier for everyone.

 

[PSU2UNC]

As a shmuck that read Fauci's e-mails and heard his statements, and also saw Walensky's testimony; and with the changing guidance/narrative coming from the agencies of these experts, along with the results of where we are today; I will agree to disagree.

Fauci =/= CDC

 

[PSU2UNC]

Have you noticed a decided push against J&J by the mainstream scientists [CDC etc]. All i can find is the TTS data from April which showed 9 deaths [8 women] out of 17 million jabs. Is that a reason to recommend against. i suspect there is a certain group pushing mRNA because they want that to be the way of the future. [which might be okay but the rational is flawed]

I have seen some data to suggest lower efficacy with J&J, especially with newer strains. If that is true, the mRNA versions would be better. I don't think this is conspiratorial.

 

[PSUEngineer89]

Fauci =/= CDC

Unless they speak up when it matters, then:

Fauci = CDC.

 

[PSUEngineer89]

This is not a mandate. No one is forcing these people to get vaccines. They are free to quit their jobs.

That’s a mandate in every sense of the word.

Only an authoritarian would argue such nonsense.

 

[The Spin Meister]

This is not a mandate. No one is forcing these people to get vaccines. They are free to quit their jobs.

Lol. Yep, quit their jobs. End their career. Never get on a plane or train. Can’t eat out in restaurants in most cities. Or attend concerts, go to museums. Not allowed to go to school or university. Can’t travel internationally.

Pretty much can’t live life.......but no mandate!

 

[Obliviax]

Fauci and the CDC are not the same thing.

so?

 

[PSUEngineer89]

Reminder that "how to handle the pandemic" was suggested a long, long time ago. This guy was clearly some sort of genius. 😂

I can tell you what I've said from the beginning.

1. It's clear as glass that if you're very old, this can push you over the edge. Therefore, nursing homes are locked down, effective immediately. Attendees at these nursing homes would live in the nursing home for two weeks on, then off. Government subsidies to pay the bonuses these workers are going to get to compensate them. Tests for CV prior to coming back on after two weeks off.

2. it's clear as can be that for everyone else, this isn't very bad - so be an adult, live responsibly. If you're healthy, live your life. If you've got conditions that are problematic, live as you see fit, but we STRONGLY RECOMMEND AN N95 MASK (WHICH PROTECTS YOU). You can also consider working from home, if possible, etc.

3. No shutdowns whatsoever. Everyone is going to get it because it is so easily spread. So, it is only a question of when.....see point 2 for responsible living within those realities.

Sure he did.

I know, absolutely know that all of these D's knew that the idea was to over-react and cause such chaos that Trump would be blamed.

There's really no other explanation for their behavior.

We all knew that Covid really (statistically speaking) only hurt the very old.

But their ideas didn't protect the old - nothing about putting money into nursing homes and taking sensible precautions. Not once did we talk about that.

Instead, they focused on not playing sports (impact to the virus - zero), closing down schools and suppressing any potential good news.

Even the democrats on this board knew it was true.

But do they care? Nope. Terrible people.

Now, will they ask if Cuomo is nuts or challenge any of it? Of course not.

 

[GulfCoastLion]

This is not a mandate. No one is forcing these people to get vaccines. They are free to quit their jobs.

That’s a mandate. If you think it’s not a mandate in the military, or police force to take the jab, or quit your career ambition/job, then you have no clue what the meaning of mandate is.

 

[GulfCoastLion]

That’s a mandate in every sense of the word.

Only an authoritarian would argue such nonsense.

This dude must be getting paid to maintain and defend Fauci, Biden’s mandates, Big Pharma, etc. His act is getting old and quite frankly a waste of time debating him and his one sided pro-vaccine, pro-Biden administration support

 

[NewEra 2014]

Please explain the medical reasoning for what you state above.

Yes, mRNA and traditional flu vaccines work differently. But they both accomplish the same thing (enhanced immune response).

There is no medical reason (that I am aware of) to suspect that mRNA boosters wouldn't be perfectly fine.

That is some solid logic there, and I totally see your point. So if we follow your line of reasoning, I guess it could go something like this:

There is no medical reason (that I am aware of) to suspect that gain of function research wouldn't be perfectly fine. I mean, all those great medical minds couldn't have imagined that GOF research could cause a global pandemic and kill millions of people. So why not go for it?

Anyone urging caution regarding GOF research a few years ago probably had a "weird fear of science".

You are truly a lost soul.

 

[roswelllion]

The medical community was saying it because they didn't want to be overrun like they are right now in many hospitals. Many healthcare, travel related jobs, nursing homes, food industry have shortages of essential people right now, but you don't give 2 sh!ts about them.....not your problem. They could see it coming and they predicted it. They warned people that this could and would happen. Could you imagine how bad it could have been minus the vaccine in terms of a lockdown right now? Everyone is corrupt on the planet but those that think exactly like you guys and it's all just some big mass political global conspiracy that was done to get Trump out of office. You want to talk about narratives changing, really?

First it was the the government will use it to track us. Then it was we don't what is in it even though the technology and methods being used aren't new at all. Then it wasn't approved. Then it was made up lies of people dying from the shot. Then it was they aren't 100% effective since you could get it or pass it on, but the Doctors were saying....yeah but the unvaccinated aren't filling up the ICU's. Imagine being so selfish as to not get the shot and then run your arse to the hospital when you do get it when you had ample time and warning to get it,,,,then you died on your family. You posed the questions as to why the hospitals won't treat people for something they offered a way to treat in advance and you didn't get your Tucker talking points. You knew better and got the shot and now have some internal conflict due to your other ideologies....not me. I'm not the one who got the shot and spending my day arguing against it for others pretending I'm standing up for their freedoms. I'm not the one posing questions like what to do for my grandchildren when the simple answer is go to to a pediatrician and get real advice. The simple fact you posed that question kind of scares me. Why are people telling you nightly to question it when they have it and mandate it for their own employees.....sit on that one for a while and get back to me.

I am guessing you are a graduate of a Chicago public school based on your lack of math skills and reading comprehension.
Reading comprehension - If i believed any of the 5-6 points at the beginning of your 2nd paragraph would I be vaxxed and boosted? That is like 3rd grade comprehension to understand that.
Math skills. So you say the medical community has insisted on vaccines only because they were afraid of being over run. So i showed you that the group of people "who might question getting the shot are under 40 and healthy. Perhaps another comprehension issue? Here is where your math is slipping [or non existent]
. Step 1. 2.5% of deaths are those under 40.
. Step 2. We now hear that about 50% of covid hospitalizations are with not from Covid meaning they have mild symptoms or are asymptomatic. Said another way THEY WOULD BE THERE ANYWAY. They are not there due to Covid. I'll go slow here. 2.5% x 50% is 1.25%
. Step 3 The average Covid death person had 2.9 comorbidity's. Newsflash these folks are in the healthy category. Let's be generous and say half of all under 40 Covid deaths were otherwise healthy people. 1.25% 1/2 are healthy 1/2 are not. That gives us .63% of Covid deaths [and hospitalizations] are healthy people under 40. Less than 1% is not going to over run the hospitals.
I know you are smarter than you appear. i think you are stubborn and don't read what people post.
.

 

[roswelllion]

I have seen some data to suggest lower efficacy with J&J, especially with newer strains. If that is true, the mRNA versions would be better. I don't think this is conspiratorial.

I would like to see that. I have looked pretty closely. My impression is this
. lower efficacy at the beginning approx 70% vs 90%
. not a scientist but if i understand correctly the mRNA targets a specific spike protein so it wanes more quickly and is less effective with mutations unless the same spike protein is in the new variant
. at about 6 mths mRNA and J&J are similar and the mRNA are losing effectiveness more quickly
. J&J seems to do a better job with T cell immunity which actually makes it perhaps more not less durable

One study came out and said J&J booster creates almost 0 antibodies against Omicron. This was a lab study. Contradicting that has been some studies that show in real world studies with real folks because of the good T cell response the J&J vaccine works pretty well against Omicron. It is probably too early to tell but my guess is this will be at least as good as the current mRNA which isn't doing much.

My suspicion comes from the following. the recent recommendations for mRNA over J&J only seem to mention the lab study and the old [and accurate data regarding TTS. But they are still quoting the April data. Makes we wonder.

 

[PSUEngineer89]

Here is the data on cases and deaths.

 

[PSUEngineer89]

Vaccine Effectiveness against Omicron by time. For Infection, not death. Terrible.

I haven't found data for "death" yet.

 

[SLUPSU]

Vaccine Effectiveness against Omicron by time. For Infection, not death. Terrible.

I haven't found data for "death" yet.

Here's the latest on hospitalization VE from the UK, still early

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1045619/Technical-Briefing-31-Dec-2021-Omicron_severity_update.pdf

 

[PSUEngineer89]

Here's the latest on hospitalization VE from the UK, still early

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1045619/Technical-Briefing-31-Dec-2021-Omicron_severity_update.pdf

Here are the main charts.

The conclusions are clear:

1. Everyone is going to get Covid. If it is only 60% effective against symptomatic disease after a third shot, it is simply a matter of the number of exposures.

2. It allows you to get some level of natural immunity (not perfect, but easily the best protection) with significantly less risk.

 

[WPTLION]

Here are the main charts.

The conclusions are clear:

1. Everyone is going to get Covid. If it is only 60% effective against symptomatic disease after a third shot, it is simply a matter of the number of exposures.

2. It allows you to get some level of natural immunity (not perfect, but easily the best protection) with significantly less risk.

Nice to see you found some good data!! Two differences between Delta and Omicron and I'm not sure how you would go about calculating. First everyone is testing now, where as during Delta most people that were vaxxed and got a sniffle or cough didn't test, there was no need to and most were told not to. Best example was my son's college campus. No tests for vaxxed all fall, completely different now. Yet my son got it from his vaxxed friends before Thanksgiving. Second Delta came through here and in the UK(where I'm assuming theses charts are from) while people were still outside.

Like I said I have no idea how you could calculate it but if anyone can figure it out you will!