Trump is not the owner of any Presidential Documents

2lion70

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All those records taken from Mar-a-Lago are property of the United States, not Trump. His keeping those records is a direct violation of law. The DOJ/FBI action was merely the US Giv retrieving our property.


(44 U.S.C. Chapter 22)

§ 2201. Definitions

§ 2202. Ownership of Presidential records

§ 2203. Management and custody of Presidential records

§ 2204. Restrictions on access to Presidential records

§ 2205. Exceptions to restricted access

§ 2206. Regulations

§ 2207. Vice-Presidential records

§ Note. Rule of Construction

§ 2208. Claims of constitutionally based privilege against disclosure

§ 2209. Disclosure requirement for official business conducted using non-official electronic messaging accounts


§ 2201. Definitions

As used in this chapter--

(1) The term "documentary material" means all books, correspondence, memoranda, documents, papers, pamphlets, works of art, models, pictures, photographs, plats, maps, films, and motion pictures, including, but not limited to, audio and visual records, or other electronic or mechanical recordations, whether in analog, digital, or any other form.

(2) The term "Presidential records" means documentary materials, or any reasonably segregable portion thereof, created or received by the President, the President’s immediate staff, or a unit or individual of the Executive Office of the President whose function is to advise or assist the President, in the course of conducting activities which relate to or have an effect upon the carrying out of the constitutional, statutory, or other official or ceremonial duties of the President. Such term--

(A) includes any documentary materials relating to the political activities of the President or members of the President’s staff, but only if such activities relate to or have a direct effect upon the carrying out of constitutional, statutory, or other official or ceremonial duties of the President; but

(B) does not include any documentary materials that are (i) official records of an agency (as defined in section 552(e) of title 5, United States Code; (ii) personal records; (iii) stocks of publications and stationery; or (iv) extra copies of documents produced only for convenience of reference, when such copies are clearly so identified.

(3) The term "personal records" means all documentary materials, or any reasonably segregable portion thereof, of a purely private or nonpublic character which do not relate to or have an effect upon the carrying out of the constitutional, statutory, or other official or ceremonial duties of the President. Such term includes--

(A) diaries, journals, or other personal notes serving as the functional equivalent of a diary or journal which are not prepared or utilized for, or circulated or communicated in the course of, transacting Government business;

(B) materials relating to private political associations, and having no relation to or direct effect upon the carrying out of constitutional, statutory, or other official or ceremonial duties of the President; and

(C) materials relating exclusively to the President’s own election to the office of the Presidency; and materials directly relating to the election of a particular individual or individuals to Federal, State, or local office, which have no relation to or direct effect upon the carrying out of constitutional, statutory, or other official or ceremonial duties of the President.

(4) The term "Archivist" means the Archivist of the United States.

(5) The term "former President", when used with respect to Presidential records, means the former President during whose term or terms of office such Presidential records were created.

§ 2202. Ownership of Presidential records

The United States shall reserve and retain complete ownership, possession, and control of Presidential records; and such records shall be administered in accordance with the provisions of this chapter.

§ 2203. Management and custody of Presidential records


(a) Through the implementation of records management controls and other necessary actions, the President shall take all such steps as may be necessary to assure that the activities, deliberations, decisions, and policies that reflect the performance of the President’s constitutional, statutory, or other official or ceremonial duties are adequately documented and that such records are preserved and maintained as Presidential records pursuant to the requirements of this section and other provisions of law.

(b) Documentary materials produced or received by the President, the President’s staff, or units or individuals in the Executive Office of the President the function of which is to advise or assist the President, shall, to the extent practicable, be categorized as Presidential records or personal records upon their creation or receipt and be filed separately.

(c) During the President’s term of office, the President may dispose of those Presidential records of such President that no longer have administrative, historical, informational, or evidentiary value if--

(1) the President obtains the views, in writing, of the Archivist concerning the proposed disposal of such Presidential records; and

(2) the Archivist states that the Archivist does not intend to take any action under subsection (e) of this section.

(d) In the event the Archivist notifies the President under subsection (c) that the Archivist does intend to take action under subsection (e), the President may dispose of such Presidential records if copies of the disposal schedule are submitted to the appropriate Congressional Committees at least 60 calendar days of continuous session of Congress in advance of the proposed disposal date. For the purpose of this section, continuity of session is broken only by an adjournment of Congress sine die, and the days on which either House is not in session because of an adjournment of more than three days to a day certain are excluded in the computation of the days in which Congress is in continuous session.

(e) The Archivist shall request the advice of the Committee on Rules and Administration and the Committee on Governmental Affairs of the Senate and the Committee on House Oversight and the Committee on Government Operations of the House of Representatives with respect to any proposed disposal of Presidential records whenever the Archivist considers that--

(1) these particular records may be of special interest to the Congress; or

(2) consultation with the Congress regarding the disposal of these particular records is in the public interest.

(f) During a President’s term of office, the Archivist may maintain and preserve Presidential records on behalf of the President, including records in digital or electronic form. The President shall remain exclusively responsible for custody, control and access to such Presidential records. The Archivist may not disclose any such records, except under direction of the President, until the conclusion of a President’s term of office, if a President serves consecutive terms upon the conclusion of the last term, or such other period provided for under section 2204 of this title.

(g)(1) Upon the conclusion of a President’s term of office, or if a President serves consecutive terms upon the conclusion of the last term, the Archivist of the United States shall assume responsibility for the custody, control, and preservation of, and access to, the Presidential records of that President. The Archivist shall have an affirmative duty to make such records available to the public as rapidly and completely as possible consistent with the provisions of this chapter.

(2) The Archivist shall deposit all such Presidential records in a Presidential archival depository or another archival facility operated by the United States. The Archivist is authorized to designate, after consultation with the former President, a director at each depository or facility, who shall be responsible for the care and preservation of such records.

(3) When the President considers it practicable and in the public interest, the President shall include in the President’s budget transmitted to Congress, for each fiscal year in which the term of office of the President will expire, such funds as may be necessary for carrying out the authorities of this subsection.

(4) The Archivist is authorized to dispose of such Presidential records which the Archivist has appraised and determined to have insufficient administrative, historical, informational, or evidentiary value to warrant their continued preservation. Notice of such disposal shall be published in the Federal Register at least 60 days in advance of the proposed disposal date. Publication of such notice shall constitute a final agency action for purposes of review under chapter 7 of title 5, United States Code.
 
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dailybuck777

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All those records taken from Mar-a-Lago are property of the United States, not Trump. His keeping those records is a direct violation of law. The DOJ/FBI action was merely the US Giv retrieving our property.


(44 U.S.C. Chapter 22)

§ 2201. Definitions

§ 2202. Ownership of Presidential records

§ 2203. Management and custody of Presidential records

§ 2204. Restrictions on access to Presidential records

§ 2205. Exceptions to restricted access

§ 2206. Regulations

§ 2207. Vice-Presidential records

§ Note. Rule of Construction

§ 2208. Claims of constitutionally based privilege against disclosure

§ 2209. Disclosure requirement for official business conducted using non-official electronic messaging accounts


§ 2201. Definitions

As used in this chapter--

(1) The term "documentary material" means all books, correspondence, memoranda, documents, papers, pamphlets, works of art, models, pictures, photographs, plats, maps, films, and motion pictures, including, but not limited to, audio and visual records, or other electronic or mechanical recordations, whether in analog, digital, or any other form.

(2) The term "Presidential records" means documentary materials, or any reasonably segregable portion thereof, created or received by the President, the President’s immediate staff, or a unit or individual of the Executive Office of the President whose function is to advise or assist the President, in the course of conducting activities which relate to or have an effect upon the carrying out of the constitutional, statutory, or other official or ceremonial duties of the President. Such term--

(A) includes any documentary materials relating to the political activities of the President or members of the President’s staff, but only if such activities relate to or have a direct effect upon the carrying out of constitutional, statutory, or other official or ceremonial duties of the President; but

(B) does not include any documentary materials that are (i) official records of an agency (as defined in section 552(e) of title 5, United States Code; (ii) personal records; (iii) stocks of publications and stationery; or (iv) extra copies of documents produced only for convenience of reference, when such copies are clearly so identified.

(3) The term "personal records" means all documentary materials, or any reasonably segregable portion thereof, of a purely private or nonpublic character which do not relate to or have an effect upon the carrying out of the constitutional, statutory, or other official or ceremonial duties of the President. Such term includes--

(A) diaries, journals, or other personal notes serving as the functional equivalent of a diary or journal which are not prepared or utilized for, or circulated or communicated in the course of, transacting Government business;

(B) materials relating to private political associations, and having no relation to or direct effect upon the carrying out of constitutional, statutory, or other official or ceremonial duties of the President; and

(C) materials relating exclusively to the President’s own election to the office of the Presidency; and materials directly relating to the election of a particular individual or individuals to Federal, State, or local office, which have no relation to or direct effect upon the carrying out of constitutional, statutory, or other official or ceremonial duties of the President.

(4) The term "Archivist" means the Archivist of the United States.

(5) The term "former President", when used with respect to Presidential records, means the former President during whose term or terms of office such Presidential records were created.

§ 2202. Ownership of Presidential records

The United States shall reserve and retain complete ownership, possession, and control of Presidential records; and such records shall be administered in accordance with the provisions of this chapter.

§ 2203. Management and custody of Presidential records


(a) Through the implementation of records management controls and other necessary actions, the President shall take all such steps as may be necessary to assure that the activities, deliberations, decisions, and policies that reflect the performance of the President’s constitutional, statutory, or other official or ceremonial duties are adequately documented and that such records are preserved and maintained as Presidential records pursuant to the requirements of this section and other provisions of law.

(b) Documentary materials produced or received by the President, the President’s staff, or units or individuals in the Executive Office of the President the function of which is to advise or assist the President, shall, to the extent practicable, be categorized as Presidential records or personal records upon their creation or receipt and be filed separately.

(c) During the President’s term of office, the President may dispose of those Presidential records of such President that no longer have administrative, historical, informational, or evidentiary value if--

(1) the President obtains the views, in writing, of the Archivist concerning the proposed disposal of such Presidential records; and

(2) the Archivist states that the Archivist does not intend to take any action under subsection (e) of this section.

(d) In the event the Archivist notifies the President under subsection (c) that the Archivist does intend to take action under subsection (e), the President may dispose of such Presidential records if copies of the disposal schedule are submitted to the appropriate Congressional Committees at least 60 calendar days of continuous session of Congress in advance of the proposed disposal date. For the purpose of this section, continuity of session is broken only by an adjournment of Congress sine die, and the days on which either House is not in session because of an adjournment of more than three days to a day certain are excluded in the computation of the days in which Congress is in continuous session.

(e) The Archivist shall request the advice of the Committee on Rules and Administration and the Committee on Governmental Affairs of the Senate and the Committee on House Oversight and the Committee on Government Operations of the House of Representatives with respect to any proposed disposal of Presidential records whenever the Archivist considers that--

(1) these particular records may be of special interest to the Congress; or

(2) consultation with the Congress regarding the disposal of these particular records is in the public interest.

(f) During a President’s term of office, the Archivist may maintain and preserve Presidential records on behalf of the President, including records in digital or electronic form. The President shall remain exclusively responsible for custody, control and access to such Presidential records. The Archivist may not disclose any such records, except under direction of the President, until the conclusion of a President’s term of office, if a President serves consecutive terms upon the conclusion of the last term, or such other period provided for under section 2204 of this title.

(g)(1) Upon the conclusion of a President’s term of office, or if a President serves consecutive terms upon the conclusion of the last term, the Archivist of the United States shall assume responsibility for the custody, control, and preservation of, and access to, the Presidential records of that President. The Archivist shall have an affirmative duty to make such records available to the public as rapidly and completely as possible consistent with the provisions of this chapter.

(2) The Archivist shall deposit all such Presidential records in a Presidential archival depository or another archival facility operated by the United States. The Archivist is authorized to designate, after consultation with the former President, a director at each depository or facility, who shall be responsible for the care and preservation of such records.

(3) When the President considers it practicable and in the public interest, the President shall include in the President’s budget transmitted to Congress, for each fiscal year in which the term of office of the President will expire, such funds as may be necessary for carrying out the authorities of this subsection.

(4) The Archivist is authorized to dispose of such Presidential records which the Archivist has appraised and determined to have insufficient administrative, historical, informational, or evidentiary value to warrant their continued preservation. Notice of such disposal shall be published in the Federal Register at least 60 days in advance of the proposed disposal date. Publication of such notice shall constitute a final agency action for purposes of review under chapter 7 of title 5, United States Code.
Genius. Hillary didn't own her docs either.
 

2lion70

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Jul 1, 2004
16,851
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Genius. Hillary didn't own her docs either.
Not on topic. What-aboutism runs strong in you.
Do the records taken from MAL belong to Trump or the US Gov? He had ample time to return the docs - chose not to - so the owner had to go and get them.
 

2lion70

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Gold Member
Jul 1, 2004
16,851
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So why weren't these documents taken in May the last time the FBI was there?
There was apparently a meeting where Trump and his legal team agreed to return them. They were not complying with that agreement forcing the Gov to take action to get back our property. Trump was using his normal stall tactics and was reportedly using those docs to raise money.
 

Petch

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Mar 28, 2012
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There was apparently a meeting where Trump and his legal team agreed to return them. They were not complying with that agreement forcing the Gov to take action to get back our property. Trump was using his normal stall tactics and was reportedly using those docs to raise money.
Really? How so? Will Rachel Maddow provide exclusive examination into this after she gets done diddling herself?
 
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Hotshoe

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Feb 15, 2012
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Not on topic. What-aboutism runs strong in you.
Do the records taken from MAL belong to Trump or the US Gov? He had ample time to return the docs - chose not to - so the owner had to go and get them.
It depends on if they're documents or gifts. It depends if those gifts are foreign or domestic. The President can buy foreign gifts. Most of these items go into presidential libraries.
 
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dailybuck777

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Not on topic. What-aboutism runs strong in you.
Do the records taken from MAL belong to Trump or the US Gov? He had ample time to return the docs - chose not to - so the owner had to go and get them.
Why didn't the FBI raid Hillary and her lawyers who had improper custody of government property and who had also destroyed government property? Double standard of enforcement. Hillary's crimes were much worse than violating an archives law. Also, why not raid Lois Lerner who claims to have lost 2 years worth of emails. It is a matter of equal enforcement of the law or, in this case looking for Mickey mouse violations as an excuse to harass and destroy somebody.
 

Hotshoe

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Not classified documents.
What did I write? You have not a clue what was obtained, only speculation. No one on this board does. Furthermore, if this was from National Archives, this was beyond ridiculous and has never been done. If you think former presidents haven't kept documents, you're clueless.
 

ao5884

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Oct 1, 2019
7,269
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All those records taken from Mar-a-Lago are property of the United States, not Trump. His keeping those records is a direct violation of law. The DOJ/FBI action was merely the US Giv retrieving our property.


(44 U.S.C. Chapter 22)

§ 2201. Definitions

§ 2202. Ownership of Presidential records

§ 2203. Management and custody of Presidential records

§ 2204. Restrictions on access to Presidential records

§ 2205. Exceptions to restricted access

§ 2206. Regulations

§ 2207. Vice-Presidential records

§ Note. Rule of Construction

§ 2208. Claims of constitutionally based privilege against disclosure

§ 2209. Disclosure requirement for official business conducted using non-official electronic messaging accounts


§ 2201. Definitions

As used in this chapter--

(1) The term "documentary material" means all books, correspondence, memoranda, documents, papers, pamphlets, works of art, models, pictures, photographs, plats, maps, films, and motion pictures, including, but not limited to, audio and visual records, or other electronic or mechanical recordations, whether in analog, digital, or any other form.

(2) The term "Presidential records" means documentary materials, or any reasonably segregable portion thereof, created or received by the President, the President’s immediate staff, or a unit or individual of the Executive Office of the President whose function is to advise or assist the President, in the course of conducting activities which relate to or have an effect upon the carrying out of the constitutional, statutory, or other official or ceremonial duties of the President. Such term--

(A) includes any documentary materials relating to the political activities of the President or members of the President’s staff, but only if such activities relate to or have a direct effect upon the carrying out of constitutional, statutory, or other official or ceremonial duties of the President; but

(B) does not include any documentary materials that are (i) official records of an agency (as defined in section 552(e) of title 5, United States Code; (ii) personal records; (iii) stocks of publications and stationery; or (iv) extra copies of documents produced only for convenience of reference, when such copies are clearly so identified.

(3) The term "personal records" means all documentary materials, or any reasonably segregable portion thereof, of a purely private or nonpublic character which do not relate to or have an effect upon the carrying out of the constitutional, statutory, or other official or ceremonial duties of the President. Such term includes--

(A) diaries, journals, or other personal notes serving as the functional equivalent of a diary or journal which are not prepared or utilized for, or circulated or communicated in the course of, transacting Government business;

(B) materials relating to private political associations, and having no relation to or direct effect upon the carrying out of constitutional, statutory, or other official or ceremonial duties of the President; and

(C) materials relating exclusively to the President’s own election to the office of the Presidency; and materials directly relating to the election of a particular individual or individuals to Federal, State, or local office, which have no relation to or direct effect upon the carrying out of constitutional, statutory, or other official or ceremonial duties of the President.

(4) The term "Archivist" means the Archivist of the United States.

(5) The term "former President", when used with respect to Presidential records, means the former President during whose term or terms of office such Presidential records were created.

§ 2202. Ownership of Presidential records

The United States shall reserve and retain complete ownership, possession, and control of Presidential records; and such records shall be administered in accordance with the provisions of this chapter.

§ 2203. Management and custody of Presidential records


(a) Through the implementation of records management controls and other necessary actions, the President shall take all such steps as may be necessary to assure that the activities, deliberations, decisions, and policies that reflect the performance of the President’s constitutional, statutory, or other official or ceremonial duties are adequately documented and that such records are preserved and maintained as Presidential records pursuant to the requirements of this section and other provisions of law.

(b) Documentary materials produced or received by the President, the President’s staff, or units or individuals in the Executive Office of the President the function of which is to advise or assist the President, shall, to the extent practicable, be categorized as Presidential records or personal records upon their creation or receipt and be filed separately.

(c) During the President’s term of office, the President may dispose of those Presidential records of such President that no longer have administrative, historical, informational, or evidentiary value if--

(1) the President obtains the views, in writing, of the Archivist concerning the proposed disposal of such Presidential records; and

(2) the Archivist states that the Archivist does not intend to take any action under subsection (e) of this section.

(d) In the event the Archivist notifies the President under subsection (c) that the Archivist does intend to take action under subsection (e), the President may dispose of such Presidential records if copies of the disposal schedule are submitted to the appropriate Congressional Committees at least 60 calendar days of continuous session of Congress in advance of the proposed disposal date. For the purpose of this section, continuity of session is broken only by an adjournment of Congress sine die, and the days on which either House is not in session because of an adjournment of more than three days to a day certain are excluded in the computation of the days in which Congress is in continuous session.

(e) The Archivist shall request the advice of the Committee on Rules and Administration and the Committee on Governmental Affairs of the Senate and the Committee on House Oversight and the Committee on Government Operations of the House of Representatives with respect to any proposed disposal of Presidential records whenever the Archivist considers that--

(1) these particular records may be of special interest to the Congress; or

(2) consultation with the Congress regarding the disposal of these particular records is in the public interest.

(f) During a President’s term of office, the Archivist may maintain and preserve Presidential records on behalf of the President, including records in digital or electronic form. The President shall remain exclusively responsible for custody, control and access to such Presidential records. The Archivist may not disclose any such records, except under direction of the President, until the conclusion of a President’s term of office, if a President serves consecutive terms upon the conclusion of the last term, or such other period provided for under section 2204 of this title.

(g)(1) Upon the conclusion of a President’s term of office, or if a President serves consecutive terms upon the conclusion of the last term, the Archivist of the United States shall assume responsibility for the custody, control, and preservation of, and access to, the Presidential records of that President. The Archivist shall have an affirmative duty to make such records available to the public as rapidly and completely as possible consistent with the provisions of this chapter.

(2) The Archivist shall deposit all such Presidential records in a Presidential archival depository or another archival facility operated by the United States. The Archivist is authorized to designate, after consultation with the former President, a director at each depository or facility, who shall be responsible for the care and preservation of such records.

(3) When the President considers it practicable and in the public interest, the President shall include in the President’s budget transmitted to Congress, for each fiscal year in which the term of office of the President will expire, such funds as may be necessary for carrying out the authorities of this subsection.

(4) The Archivist is authorized to dispose of such Presidential records which the Archivist has appraised and determined to have insufficient administrative, historical, informational, or evidentiary value to warrant their continued preservation. Notice of such disposal shall be published in the Federal Register at least 60 days in advance of the proposed disposal date. Publication of such notice shall constitute a final agency action for purposes of review under chapter 7 of title 5, United States Code.
Was fine For Obama without a raid why the double standard?
 
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ao5884

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Oct 1, 2019
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All those records taken from Mar-a-Lago are property of the United States, not Trump. His keeping those records is a direct violation of law. The DOJ/FBI action was merely the US Giv retrieving our property.


(44 U.S.C. Chapter 22)

§ 2201. Definitions

§ 2202. Ownership of Presidential records

§ 2203. Management and custody of Presidential records

§ 2204. Restrictions on access to Presidential records

§ 2205. Exceptions to restricted access

§ 2206. Regulations

§ 2207. Vice-Presidential records

§ Note. Rule of Construction

§ 2208. Claims of constitutionally based privilege against disclosure

§ 2209. Disclosure requirement for official business conducted using non-official electronic messaging accounts


§ 2201. Definitions

As used in this chapter--

(1) The term "documentary material" means all books, correspondence, memoranda, documents, papers, pamphlets, works of art, models, pictures, photographs, plats, maps, films, and motion pictures, including, but not limited to, audio and visual records, or other electronic or mechanical recordations, whether in analog, digital, or any other form.

(2) The term "Presidential records" means documentary materials, or any reasonably segregable portion thereof, created or received by the President, the President’s immediate staff, or a unit or individual of the Executive Office of the President whose function is to advise or assist the President, in the course of conducting activities which relate to or have an effect upon the carrying out of the constitutional, statutory, or other official or ceremonial duties of the President. Such term--

(A) includes any documentary materials relating to the political activities of the President or members of the President’s staff, but only if such activities relate to or have a direct effect upon the carrying out of constitutional, statutory, or other official or ceremonial duties of the President; but

(B) does not include any documentary materials that are (i) official records of an agency (as defined in section 552(e) of title 5, United States Code; (ii) personal records; (iii) stocks of publications and stationery; or (iv) extra copies of documents produced only for convenience of reference, when such copies are clearly so identified.

(3) The term "personal records" means all documentary materials, or any reasonably segregable portion thereof, of a purely private or nonpublic character which do not relate to or have an effect upon the carrying out of the constitutional, statutory, or other official or ceremonial duties of the President. Such term includes--

(A) diaries, journals, or other personal notes serving as the functional equivalent of a diary or journal which are not prepared or utilized for, or circulated or communicated in the course of, transacting Government business;

(B) materials relating to private political associations, and having no relation to or direct effect upon the carrying out of constitutional, statutory, or other official or ceremonial duties of the President; and

(C) materials relating exclusively to the President’s own election to the office of the Presidency; and materials directly relating to the election of a particular individual or individuals to Federal, State, or local office, which have no relation to or direct effect upon the carrying out of constitutional, statutory, or other official or ceremonial duties of the President.

(4) The term "Archivist" means the Archivist of the United States.

(5) The term "former President", when used with respect to Presidential records, means the former President during whose term or terms of office such Presidential records were created.

§ 2202. Ownership of Presidential records

The United States shall reserve and retain complete ownership, possession, and control of Presidential records; and such records shall be administered in accordance with the provisions of this chapter.

§ 2203. Management and custody of Presidential records


(a) Through the implementation of records management controls and other necessary actions, the President shall take all such steps as may be necessary to assure that the activities, deliberations, decisions, and policies that reflect the performance of the President’s constitutional, statutory, or other official or ceremonial duties are adequately documented and that such records are preserved and maintained as Presidential records pursuant to the requirements of this section and other provisions of law.

(b) Documentary materials produced or received by the President, the President’s staff, or units or individuals in the Executive Office of the President the function of which is to advise or assist the President, shall, to the extent practicable, be categorized as Presidential records or personal records upon their creation or receipt and be filed separately.

(c) During the President’s term of office, the President may dispose of those Presidential records of such President that no longer have administrative, historical, informational, or evidentiary value if--

(1) the President obtains the views, in writing, of the Archivist concerning the proposed disposal of such Presidential records; and

(2) the Archivist states that the Archivist does not intend to take any action under subsection (e) of this section.

(d) In the event the Archivist notifies the President under subsection (c) that the Archivist does intend to take action under subsection (e), the President may dispose of such Presidential records if copies of the disposal schedule are submitted to the appropriate Congressional Committees at least 60 calendar days of continuous session of Congress in advance of the proposed disposal date. For the purpose of this section, continuity of session is broken only by an adjournment of Congress sine die, and the days on which either House is not in session because of an adjournment of more than three days to a day certain are excluded in the computation of the days in which Congress is in continuous session.

(e) The Archivist shall request the advice of the Committee on Rules and Administration and the Committee on Governmental Affairs of the Senate and the Committee on House Oversight and the Committee on Government Operations of the House of Representatives with respect to any proposed disposal of Presidential records whenever the Archivist considers that--

(1) these particular records may be of special interest to the Congress; or

(2) consultation with the Congress regarding the disposal of these particular records is in the public interest.

(f) During a President’s term of office, the Archivist may maintain and preserve Presidential records on behalf of the President, including records in digital or electronic form. The President shall remain exclusively responsible for custody, control and access to such Presidential records. The Archivist may not disclose any such records, except under direction of the President, until the conclusion of a President’s term of office, if a President serves consecutive terms upon the conclusion of the last term, or such other period provided for under section 2204 of this title.

(g)(1) Upon the conclusion of a President’s term of office, or if a President serves consecutive terms upon the conclusion of the last term, the Archivist of the United States shall assume responsibility for the custody, control, and preservation of, and access to, the Presidential records of that President. The Archivist shall have an affirmative duty to make such records available to the public as rapidly and completely as possible consistent with the provisions of this chapter.

(2) The Archivist shall deposit all such Presidential records in a Presidential archival depository or another archival facility operated by the United States. The Archivist is authorized to designate, after consultation with the former President, a director at each depository or facility, who shall be responsible for the care and preservation of such records.

(3) When the President considers it practicable and in the public interest, the President shall include in the President’s budget transmitted to Congress, for each fiscal year in which the term of office of the President will expire, such funds as may be necessary for carrying out the authorities of this subsection.

(4) The Archivist is authorized to dispose of such Presidential records which the Archivist has appraised and determined to have insufficient administrative, historical, informational, or evidentiary value to warrant their continued preservation. Notice of such disposal shall be published in the Federal Register at least 60 days in advance of the proposed disposal date. Publication of such notice shall constitute a final agency action for purposes of review under chapter 7 of title 5, United States Code.
 
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2lion70

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Really? How so? Will Rachel Maddow provide exclusive examination into this after she gets done diddling herself?
You can find reports of that meeting easily by looking online.
 

RoyalT12

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Dec 3, 2020
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What did I write? You have not a clue what was obtained, only speculation. No one on this board does. Furthermore, if this was from National Archives, this was beyond ridiculous and has never been done. If you think former presidents haven't kept documents, you're clueless.
You are a moron. This was an FBI action originally began with information from the Archives. You clearly have no idea how law enforcement works. Of course it hasn’t done before/ no other ex-President has refused to return classified documents. Stop showing your insecurities with these ridiculous temper tantrums. This is was an precedented action, not because it was politically motivated but because of the seriousness of the violation. You are bore that writes like a shrill school girl. Wouldn’t still live the “power “ to toss people off the board/ loser.
 
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ao5884

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Oct 1, 2019
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You are a moron. This was an FBI action originally began with information from the Archives. You clearly have no idea how law enforcement works. Of course it hasn’t done before/ no other ex-President has refused to return classified documents. Stop showing your insecurities with these ridiculous temper tantrums. This is was an precedented action, not because it was politically motivated but because of the seriousness of the violation. You are bore that writes like a shrill school girl. Wouldn’t still live the “power “ to toss people off the board/ loser.
Nope.....was always handled differently.....never with a raid.
 
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maypole

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May 9, 2022
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No doubt the FBI had evidence that trump was withholding top secret documents and had no intention of handing them over despite subpoenas for them. He would just engage in his usual stalling tactics until he could destroy or use them for nefarious purposes. The grifter in chief just can’t be trusted.
 

roswelllion

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Gold Member
Aug 18, 2003
9,737
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All those records taken from Mar-a-Lago are property of the United States, not Trump. His keeping those records is a direct violation of law. The DOJ/FBI action was merely the US Giv retrieving our property.


(44 U.S.C. Chapter 22)

§ 2201. Definitions

§ 2202. Ownership of Presidential records

§ 2203. Management and custody of Presidential records

§ 2204. Restrictions on access to Presidential records

§ 2205. Exceptions to restricted access

§ 2206. Regulations

§ 2207. Vice-Presidential records

§ Note. Rule of Construction

§ 2208. Claims of constitutionally based privilege against disclosure

§ 2209. Disclosure requirement for official business conducted using non-official electronic messaging accounts


§ 2201. Definitions

As used in this chapter--

(1) The term "documentary material" means all books, correspondence, memoranda, documents, papers, pamphlets, works of art, models, pictures, photographs, plats, maps, films, and motion pictures, including, but not limited to, audio and visual records, or other electronic or mechanical recordations, whether in analog, digital, or any other form.

(2) The term "Presidential records" means documentary materials, or any reasonably segregable portion thereof, created or received by the President, the President’s immediate staff, or a unit or individual of the Executive Office of the President whose function is to advise or assist the President, in the course of conducting activities which relate to or have an effect upon the carrying out of the constitutional, statutory, or other official or ceremonial duties of the President. Such term--

(A) includes any documentary materials relating to the political activities of the President or members of the President’s staff, but only if such activities relate to or have a direct effect upon the carrying out of constitutional, statutory, or other official or ceremonial duties of the President; but

(B) does not include any documentary materials that are (i) official records of an agency (as defined in section 552(e) of title 5, United States Code; (ii) personal records; (iii) stocks of publications and stationery; or (iv) extra copies of documents produced only for convenience of reference, when such copies are clearly so identified.

(3) The term "personal records" means all documentary materials, or any reasonably segregable portion thereof, of a purely private or nonpublic character which do not relate to or have an effect upon the carrying out of the constitutional, statutory, or other official or ceremonial duties of the President. Such term includes--

(A) diaries, journals, or other personal notes serving as the functional equivalent of a diary or journal which are not prepared or utilized for, or circulated or communicated in the course of, transacting Government business;

(B) materials relating to private political associations, and having no relation to or direct effect upon the carrying out of constitutional, statutory, or other official or ceremonial duties of the President; and

(C) materials relating exclusively to the President’s own election to the office of the Presidency; and materials directly relating to the election of a particular individual or individuals to Federal, State, or local office, which have no relation to or direct effect upon the carrying out of constitutional, statutory, or other official or ceremonial duties of the President.

(4) The term "Archivist" means the Archivist of the United States.

(5) The term "former President", when used with respect to Presidential records, means the former President during whose term or terms of office such Presidential records were created.

§ 2202. Ownership of Presidential records

The United States shall reserve and retain complete ownership, possession, and control of Presidential records; and such records shall be administered in accordance with the provisions of this chapter.

§ 2203. Management and custody of Presidential records


(a) Through the implementation of records management controls and other necessary actions, the President shall take all such steps as may be necessary to assure that the activities, deliberations, decisions, and policies that reflect the performance of the President’s constitutional, statutory, or other official or ceremonial duties are adequately documented and that such records are preserved and maintained as Presidential records pursuant to the requirements of this section and other provisions of law.

(b) Documentary materials produced or received by the President, the President’s staff, or units or individuals in the Executive Office of the President the function of which is to advise or assist the President, shall, to the extent practicable, be categorized as Presidential records or personal records upon their creation or receipt and be filed separately.

(c) During the President’s term of office, the President may dispose of those Presidential records of such President that no longer have administrative, historical, informational, or evidentiary value if--

(1) the President obtains the views, in writing, of the Archivist concerning the proposed disposal of such Presidential records; and

(2) the Archivist states that the Archivist does not intend to take any action under subsection (e) of this section.

(d) In the event the Archivist notifies the President under subsection (c) that the Archivist does intend to take action under subsection (e), the President may dispose of such Presidential records if copies of the disposal schedule are submitted to the appropriate Congressional Committees at least 60 calendar days of continuous session of Congress in advance of the proposed disposal date. For the purpose of this section, continuity of session is broken only by an adjournment of Congress sine die, and the days on which either House is not in session because of an adjournment of more than three days to a day certain are excluded in the computation of the days in which Congress is in continuous session.

(e) The Archivist shall request the advice of the Committee on Rules and Administration and the Committee on Governmental Affairs of the Senate and the Committee on House Oversight and the Committee on Government Operations of the House of Representatives with respect to any proposed disposal of Presidential records whenever the Archivist considers that--

(1) these particular records may be of special interest to the Congress; or

(2) consultation with the Congress regarding the disposal of these particular records is in the public interest.

(f) During a President’s term of office, the Archivist may maintain and preserve Presidential records on behalf of the President, including records in digital or electronic form. The President shall remain exclusively responsible for custody, control and access to such Presidential records. The Archivist may not disclose any such records, except under direction of the President, until the conclusion of a President’s term of office, if a President serves consecutive terms upon the conclusion of the last term, or such other period provided for under section 2204 of this title.

(g)(1) Upon the conclusion of a President’s term of office, or if a President serves consecutive terms upon the conclusion of the last term, the Archivist of the United States shall assume responsibility for the custody, control, and preservation of, and access to, the Presidential records of that President. The Archivist shall have an affirmative duty to make such records available to the public as rapidly and completely as possible consistent with the provisions of this chapter.

(2) The Archivist shall deposit all such Presidential records in a Presidential archival depository or another archival facility operated by the United States. The Archivist is authorized to designate, after consultation with the former President, a director at each depository or facility, who shall be responsible for the care and preservation of such records.

(3) When the President considers it practicable and in the public interest, the President shall include in the President’s budget transmitted to Congress, for each fiscal year in which the term of office of the President will expire, such funds as may be necessary for carrying out the authorities of this subsection.

(4) The Archivist is authorized to dispose of such Presidential records which the Archivist has appraised and determined to have insufficient administrative, historical, informational, or evidentiary value to warrant their continued preservation. Notice of such disposal shall be published in the Federal Register at least 60 days in advance of the proposed disposal date. Publication of such notice shall constitute a final agency action for purposes of review under chapter 7 of title 5, United States Code.
A couple things:
. Life is short so I hope you didn't spend much time creating this post.
- anyone who thinks this is about records retention has an IQ below 70.
The FBI has already seen these documents.
All of these documents were available by subpoena
There were supposedly 15 boxes of records in a locked room in the basement. How long would it take to go to that room and retrieve the 15 boxes. 15 minutes? They were there 10 hours.
Trump's lawyers were NOT allowed in the house to observe. I am shocked that is even legal but is there any explanation.
It is reported they even searched Melania's closet. Seriously?
10 hours? - are you kidding me? welcome to the police state

This is clearly a fishing expedition trying to find anything "else" in the home relating to Jan 6th or some other yet to be determined activity.

I sincerely hope this warrant is truly about the records only because this will backfire big time.
 
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RoyalT12

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Dec 3, 2020
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The President has the singular authority to declassify anything, with zero requirement to inform the national archives
So what ? Do you really think he looked at intelligence reports about Russia and wrote in crayon- declassified? Taking them from the White House and not returning them when told to is a crime. End of story. But it’s not, I’m looking forward to hearing about what his intentions with those highly classified documents was- aren’t you as an American?
 

Petch

Well-Known Member
Mar 28, 2012
3,521
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So what ? Do you really think he looked at intelligence reports about Russia and wrote in crayon- declassified? Taking them from the White House and not returning them when told to is a crime. End of story. But it’s not, I’m looking forward to hearing about what his intentions with those highly classified documents was- aren’t you as an American?
I’m looking forward to hearing about why the FBI needed 10 hours to search, and why they weren’t allowing anyone to observe -aren’t you as an American?
 
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RoyalT12

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I’m looking forward to hearing about why the FBI needed 10 hours to search, and why they weren’t allowing anyone to observe -aren’t you as an American?
Absolutely, I want very juicy detail!
 

junior1

Well-Known Member
May 29, 2001
6,125
6,452
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Not on topic. What-aboutism runs strong in you.
Do the records taken from MAL belong to Trump or the US Gov? He had ample time to return the docs - chose not to - so the owner had to go and get them.
you might have better insight into what was taken than the rest of us. From what I've read, the FBI had the run of the place with no oversight. They left with boxes of stuff. It's unclear, or better, unknown what they took. For all we know, when they get back to DC they're liable to find an item of Melania's lingerie, an old trump golf scorecard, a letter to the proud boys outlining how to attack the capitol. We just know they took boxes of "stuff"
A former Deputy Director of the FBI, when talking about the unprecedented nature of this raid, remarked that when he was at the agency they performed a similar raid on a Congressman's office. In that case, everything was taken to the chambers of the Warrant issuing judge where he went through every item to ensure that items not listed on the warrant were segregated from those that were.
Now, none of us know what the warrant stated. In fact, I've seen it reported that the FBI did not give the warrant to anyone - obviously not tor Trump, he's in NJ. It just seems as if this whole thing could have been, or even should have been, handled a little differently. The FBI has let itself into a possible he said, she said situation by kicking the lawyers out of the house. But, I'd bet they knew that before they went
 
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jimarnp

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Sep 6, 2001
2,288
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So what ? Do you really think he looked at intelligence reports about Russia and wrote in crayon- declassified? Taking them from the White House and not returning them when told to is a crime. End of story. But it’s not, I’m looking forward to hearing about what his intentions with those highly classified documents was- aren’t you as an American?
As I wrote in a separate response to a different post: I’m looking forward to hearing about Hillary’s intentions were with those verified Top Secret, PRP/SCI, and developmental programs on her home server which were hacked by foreign intelligence services. She never had any authority to remove 33,000 emails, or to declassify anything….. Kind of like Sandy Berger stuffing classified documents in his underwear and socks when exiting the National archives.…accepted behavior for Marxists.
— The raid on Trump’s residence had virtually nothing to do with classified documents from the archives, as the President can declassify anything, and the archives are completely out of that loop with re: to declassification . This was always fishing and “planting” expedition, and the entire country is acutely aware of it. —As an American , I can identify Marxist tyranny from weaponized government agencies. Those agencies possess their own vested self interest, and not the interests of “we the people”
…that’s “so what”
 
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bourbon n blues

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As I wrote in a separate response to a different post: I’m looking forward to hearing about Hillary’s intentions were with those verified Top Secret, PRP/SCI, and developmental programs on her home server which were hacked by foreign intelligence services. She never had any authority to remove 33,000 emails, or to declassify anything….. Kind of like Sandy Berger stuffing classified documents in his underwear and socks when exiting the National archives.…accepted behavior for Marxists.
— The raid on Trump’s residence had virtually nothing to do with classified documents from the archives, as the President can declassify anything, and the archives are completely out of that loop with re: to declassification . This was always fishing and “planting” expedition, and the entire country is acutely aware of it. —As an American , I can identify Marxist tyranny from weaponized government agencies. Those agencies possess their own vested self interest, and not the interests of “we the people”
…that’s “so what”
Nailed it.
 

2lion70

Well-Known Member
Gold Member
Jul 1, 2004
16,851
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Nope moved his presidential records to chicago....was handled with supeonas and negotiations not an FBI Raid....so again why the double standard?
Because the docs were returned willingly to the Archives.
Former Presidents have 'Presidential Libraries' which ed up housing some docs. But those docs are still the property of the US Gov and none re classified. Mr MAGA has ignored all reasonable requests to have the docs in his custody transferred to the rightful owner - US Gov (Archives).
 
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2lion70

Well-Known Member
Gold Member
Jul 1, 2004
16,851
5,817
1
As I wrote in a separate response to a different post: I’m looking forward to hearing about Hillary’s intentions were with those verified Top Secret, PRP/SCI, and developmental programs on her home server which were hacked by foreign intelligence services. She never had any authority to remove 33,000 emails, or to declassify anything….. Kind of like Sandy Berger stuffing classified documents in his underwear and socks when exiting the National archives.…accepted behavior for Marxists.
— The raid on Trump’s residence had virtually nothing to do with classified documents from the archives, as the President can declassify anything, and the archives are completely out of that loop with re: to declassification . This was always fishing and “planting” expedition, and the entire country is acutely aware of it. —As an American , I can identify Marxist tyranny from weaponized government agencies. Those agencies possess their own vested self interest, and not the interests of “we the people”
…that’s “so what”
A former President has no power to classify documents. All Presidential Papers are the property of the US Gov - trumper has no legal right to hold any of them.
 

bdgan

Well-Known Member
May 29, 2008
61,142
37,587
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All those records taken from Mar-a-Lago are property of the United States, not Trump. His keeping those records is a direct violation of law. The DOJ/FBI action was merely the US Giv retrieving our property.


(44 U.S.C. Chapter 22)

§ 2201. Definitions

§ 2202. Ownership of Presidential records

§ 2203. Management and custody of Presidential records

§ 2204. Restrictions on access to Presidential records

§ 2205. Exceptions to restricted access

§ 2206. Regulations

§ 2207. Vice-Presidential records

§ Note. Rule of Construction

§ 2208. Claims of constitutionally based privilege against disclosure

§ 2209. Disclosure requirement for official business conducted using non-official electronic messaging accounts


§ 2201. Definitions

As used in this chapter--

(1) The term "documentary material" means all books, correspondence, memoranda, documents, papers, pamphlets, works of art, models, pictures, photographs, plats, maps, films, and motion pictures, including, but not limited to, audio and visual records, or other electronic or mechanical recordations, whether in analog, digital, or any other form.

(2) The term "Presidential records" means documentary materials, or any reasonably segregable portion thereof, created or received by the President, the President’s immediate staff, or a unit or individual of the Executive Office of the President whose function is to advise or assist the President, in the course of conducting activities which relate to or have an effect upon the carrying out of the constitutional, statutory, or other official or ceremonial duties of the President. Such term--

(A) includes any documentary materials relating to the political activities of the President or members of the President’s staff, but only if such activities relate to or have a direct effect upon the carrying out of constitutional, statutory, or other official or ceremonial duties of the President; but

(B) does not include any documentary materials that are (i) official records of an agency (as defined in section 552(e) of title 5, United States Code; (ii) personal records; (iii) stocks of publications and stationery; or (iv) extra copies of documents produced only for convenience of reference, when such copies are clearly so identified.

(3) The term "personal records" means all documentary materials, or any reasonably segregable portion thereof, of a purely private or nonpublic character which do not relate to or have an effect upon the carrying out of the constitutional, statutory, or other official or ceremonial duties of the President. Such term includes--

(A) diaries, journals, or other personal notes serving as the functional equivalent of a diary or journal which are not prepared or utilized for, or circulated or communicated in the course of, transacting Government business;

(B) materials relating to private political associations, and having no relation to or direct effect upon the carrying out of constitutional, statutory, or other official or ceremonial duties of the President; and

(C) materials relating exclusively to the President’s own election to the office of the Presidency; and materials directly relating to the election of a particular individual or individuals to Federal, State, or local office, which have no relation to or direct effect upon the carrying out of constitutional, statutory, or other official or ceremonial duties of the President.

(4) The term "Archivist" means the Archivist of the United States.

(5) The term "former President", when used with respect to Presidential records, means the former President during whose term or terms of office such Presidential records were created.

§ 2202. Ownership of Presidential records

The United States shall reserve and retain complete ownership, possession, and control of Presidential records; and such records shall be administered in accordance with the provisions of this chapter.

§ 2203. Management and custody of Presidential records


(a) Through the implementation of records management controls and other necessary actions, the President shall take all such steps as may be necessary to assure that the activities, deliberations, decisions, and policies that reflect the performance of the President’s constitutional, statutory, or other official or ceremonial duties are adequately documented and that such records are preserved and maintained as Presidential records pursuant to the requirements of this section and other provisions of law.

(b) Documentary materials produced or received by the President, the President’s staff, or units or individuals in the Executive Office of the President the function of which is to advise or assist the President, shall, to the extent practicable, be categorized as Presidential records or personal records upon their creation or receipt and be filed separately.

(c) During the President’s term of office, the President may dispose of those Presidential records of such President that no longer have administrative, historical, informational, or evidentiary value if--

(1) the President obtains the views, in writing, of the Archivist concerning the proposed disposal of such Presidential records; and

(2) the Archivist states that the Archivist does not intend to take any action under subsection (e) of this section.

(d) In the event the Archivist notifies the President under subsection (c) that the Archivist does intend to take action under subsection (e), the President may dispose of such Presidential records if copies of the disposal schedule are submitted to the appropriate Congressional Committees at least 60 calendar days of continuous session of Congress in advance of the proposed disposal date. For the purpose of this section, continuity of session is broken only by an adjournment of Congress sine die, and the days on which either House is not in session because of an adjournment of more than three days to a day certain are excluded in the computation of the days in which Congress is in continuous session.

(e) The Archivist shall request the advice of the Committee on Rules and Administration and the Committee on Governmental Affairs of the Senate and the Committee on House Oversight and the Committee on Government Operations of the House of Representatives with respect to any proposed disposal of Presidential records whenever the Archivist considers that--

(1) these particular records may be of special interest to the Congress; or

(2) consultation with the Congress regarding the disposal of these particular records is in the public interest.

(f) During a President’s term of office, the Archivist may maintain and preserve Presidential records on behalf of the President, including records in digital or electronic form. The President shall remain exclusively responsible for custody, control and access to such Presidential records. The Archivist may not disclose any such records, except under direction of the President, until the conclusion of a President’s term of office, if a President serves consecutive terms upon the conclusion of the last term, or such other period provided for under section 2204 of this title.

(g)(1) Upon the conclusion of a President’s term of office, or if a President serves consecutive terms upon the conclusion of the last term, the Archivist of the United States shall assume responsibility for the custody, control, and preservation of, and access to, the Presidential records of that President. The Archivist shall have an affirmative duty to make such records available to the public as rapidly and completely as possible consistent with the provisions of this chapter.

(2) The Archivist shall deposit all such Presidential records in a Presidential archival depository or another archival facility operated by the United States. The Archivist is authorized to designate, after consultation with the former President, a director at each depository or facility, who shall be responsible for the care and preservation of such records.

(3) When the President considers it practicable and in the public interest, the President shall include in the President’s budget transmitted to Congress, for each fiscal year in which the term of office of the President will expire, such funds as may be necessary for carrying out the authorities of this subsection.

(4) The Archivist is authorized to dispose of such Presidential records which the Archivist has appraised and determined to have insufficient administrative, historical, informational, or evidentiary value to warrant their continued preservation. Notice of such disposal shall be published in the Federal Register at least 60 days in advance of the proposed disposal date. Publication of such notice shall constitute a final agency action for purposes of review under chapter 7 of title 5, United States Code.
Unlike Clinton, I don't think Trump had his people sneaking classified information out in their pants so they could be destroyed. There was no raid or meaningful penalty for that.
 
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bourbon n blues

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Unlike Clinton, I don't think Trump had his people sneaking classified information out in their pants so they could be destroyed. There was no raid or meaningful penalty for that.
Yeah..... but Trump is evil you see, or some bullshit like that.
 
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bdgan

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May 29, 2008
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Yeah..... but Trump is evil you see, or some bullshit like that.
We don't know for sure but it's highly likely that the ultimate purpose of this raid has nothing to do with custody of documents. It's more likely an attempt to find documents that would show Trump and other key republicans in a poor light before the midterm elections.
 
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